Salem Witches Redux - future signup thread

[Autumn]

-----------------EDIT----------------------
I'm going to run the Vegas game for now and save this for later.
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I am posting sign-ups for a new game, to begin this week whenever sign-ups are full. I will post some game specifics as the night goes on. Let's keep the Werewolf ball rolling! This game will be a bit familiar, a bit different ...

Sign-up List CXXV

1. The Jackal
2. Saldana
3. Danny
4. Mckerney
5. Packer Fanatic
6. Ntndeacon
7. JAG
8. CrimsonFox
9. DaddyTorgo
10. Zinto
11. Darth Vilus
12. Mauboy1
13. Passacaglia
14. J23

[Autumn]

The people of Salem village sighed in relief when the practitioners of black magic were driven from their town. (See WW CII Salem Witch Trials GAME OVER - VILLAGE WINS - Front Office Football Central). While they were shaken by the deaths and horror they had experienced, with peace came prosperity. The town has grown and the past has been put behind them.

Or so they wanted to think. It seems, however, that there are those in Salem who would like to see those dark days return. Signs of black magic have returned, and whether there are true witches here again, or only copycats, there is no doubt that evil has returned. Just a few days ago animal sacrifices were found in Goodman Hardy's field, and now last night it was worse, a human sacrifice. There are no signs of the black magic of the past, yet this sort of evil may be wore difficult to find.

Luckily the years have brought not just a return of evil, but an influx of good. Many new people have flocked to the prosperous town, including some who are well versed in the fight against evil. You will have to hope that it will be enough.

DEADLINES

10 pm EST - Voting deadline. Any votes marked 10:01 or later will not count.

11 pm EST - Dawn deadline. Any night actions must be submitted by 11:00.

RULES

No editing of posts.

No quoting of private messages.

No discussion of the game outside the thread.

The village wins if all witches are killed. The witches win if they achieve a 1:1 ratio with the villagers.

VOTING

Every day the village votes for who they wish to lynch, in hopes of catching a witch. The villager who receives the most votes will be lynched at sundown.

In order to vote, please post your vote in bold and on a separate line.

You may change your vote at any time before the deadline by posting an unvote and then a new vote, both in bold. You may vote No Lynch, and if No Lynch gains the most votes, there will in fact be no lynch. Nightfall votes must be unanimous and will still be dependent on my availability. Tie votes will be resolved by whichever candidate has the longest held vote on them.

DEATH

Important to point out is that in this game there will not be automatic reveals upon death. Only the Mortician (see roles below) will be told the allegiance and roles of players who have died through lynch or night kill. If the Mortician is killed, nothing will be revealed to anyone.

I know this is very unusual for an FOFC game, but I'm hoping players won't be scared off. I am intrigued to see how you all adapt your game to this new style.

[Autumn]

Below are the possible roles that will be in game. Once the number of players is finalized, this will be updated to represent exactly which roles, and how many, are in the game.

Villager Roles:

MORTICIAN

The mortician can examine the body of a lynched, or night killed, person. His or her extensive knowledge of the marks that sorcery leaves upon a person, perusal of the victim's possessions, will tell him or her much about the victim. In metagame terms, the mortician(s) will be told in PM the role of any players that die in game, whether they were wolf, villager, seer, etc. No one else, wolves included, will be given this information.

WITCH HUNTER

The Salem Witch Trials are known far and wide, and have attracted this knowledgeable witch hunter to the town. With guidance from the most extensive texts on witches known to man, the witch hunter can study a person for signs of the devil's touch. Each night the witch hunter can examine one player and determine whether they are a witch or not. Their scans will only discover true witches, not the traitor.

PEEPING TOM

Most residents of Salem, especially since the troubles began, remain inside, doors and windows barred, once dusk arrives. This villager however gets a certain thrill from being out and about at night, spying on the doings of his or her neighbors. Every night the peeping Tom can choose a player's home to observe. If that player has a night action, the peeping tom will be aware that the player was out of his or her house (though nothing more about the person's role or allegiance).

CHURCH ELDER

The church keeps a close eye on the town of Salem. It is known that evil has inhabited it in the past, and that even the holiest of its citizens could be compromised. This church elder has traveled in secret from Boston to observe and take part in the affairs of the town. However, if need be his secrecy can be cast off, and his authority utilized. This player can choose to change the result of one lynch vote per game. The church elder may choose the true victim of the lynch, and his identity will be revealed to all.

NIGHT WATCHMAN

There are many watchmen in Salem town, but most do their best to avoid trouble. This particular brave villager is not afraid of these so-called witches. He or she will stand guard at night and protect the innocent from sacrifice. Every night the watchman can choose one player to guard. If that player is targeted for a night kill, the watchmen will fight off the witches, though he will not learn their identity, or they his. However, if the watchmen meets the witches again, he will be able to keep them from their targeted victim, but he himself will die in their stead. The watchman may guard his or her self, but may not guard the same player twice in a row.


Evil Roles:

THE WITCHES

Perhaps the knowledge of true black magic has not returned to the village, but some wish it would. In an attempt to unlock the keys to sorcery, a circle of witches has joined together. Human sacrifice, they are sure, is what will unlock power for them. So their books tell them. The witches have knowledge of each other and may chat privately. Each night they must choose a villager to target for sacrifice and all will go to slay the villager in his or her home.

THE TRAITOR

This villager knows no black magic either, and was not invited to the witches' coven. However, he or she has a hatred for her fellow townsfolk, and wishes the coven well in their attack on the villagers' lives. The traitor knows the identities of each of the witches, though the witches do not know the traitor. In addition, the traitor suspects the existence of a witch hunter in town. Each night he or she can snoop in one player's home for evidence. The traitor will be told whether that player is the witch hunter or not. The traitor wins with the witches, although he or she counts as a villager for victory conditions.

[The Jackal]

I'll join

[saldana]

in

[Danny]

In

[Autumn]

Rules are posted.

With Jackal's game over now, we can get started whenever sign-up seems full. So come one, come all, let's get some game in this week.

[Danny]

Please don't make me a wolf this game :P

[Autumn]

I'll add a role:

DANNY

Danny is a villager. He's definitely not a witch. Don't bother even voting for him, or questioning him about it.

[Danny]

Sounds good

[jeff061]

I'm in Vegas through Saturday, so I'll likey sit this one out.

[Autumn]

Bummer, Jeff, but I suppose I can't compete with Vegas.

Which gives me a great idea for another game.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Bummer, Jeff, but I suppose I can't compete with Vegas.

Which gives me a great idea for another game.

And my mind instantly jumps to a Fallout inspired game.

[mckerney]

In.

[EagleFan]

By no roles revealed you just mean roles (seer/duke/bg) not side as well?

[Lathum]

Someone tried a no roles revealed game once and it was one of the worst received games we ever had. It flat out just didn't work. FWIW

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Someone tried a no roles revealed game once and it was one of the worst received games we ever had. It flat out just didn't work. FWIW

The Rome game. Very frustrating game. I would recommend not doing anything resembling no roles revealed on death.

[tyketime]

Once the "no roles revealed" issue is resolved...

OK. So I'm a newbie that is interested in being sent to the slaughter. But in reading some of the previous threads, I see that these games can also get intense and folks take them quite seriously. So... I don't want to screw that up for anyone playing. My question is... do we have some sort of mentoring/shadowing process where I can "play along" with someone to get a better feel for the game? If not, maybe we should consider that at some point...

I'd like to volunteer, but I don't want to take a spot from one of the regulars either. Be kind. Be gentle. I need a job to help feed my children at home.

[Autumn]

What I mean is that on death only the Mortician will learn anything about the dead player, whether they had a role, whether they were villager or witch. Only the mortician knows.

And yes, I know people here are very opposed to this. I played in that Rome game, and was actually just rereading that thread for other reasons - though I don't think role reveals was the issue there but lots of mechanics people weren't aware of.

I'd like to ask people to stretch a little. For instance I was reading the Werewolf threads at Boardgamegeek.com. For the most part every single game there (and there are multiple games going on at all times, it's big enough) has no role reveals upon death. Most play with some variation on the Priest (which I'm calling the mortician).

So, my point being it's very possible to play that way, it's at least as common as role reveals, if not more. Obviously it takes a different type of play, a different type of analysis. It adds another role who must decide whether to reveal or not. And it makes tough decisions for the wolves who also don't know whether a roled villager has been killed or not. Fake reveals are both more possible and more dangerous.

I could just go and play this kind of game at the bgg site, but as I read those games all I could think about is how our players would adapt to this kind of game. We've grown rather skilled at a particular kind of game involving vote analysis and testing reveals through lynches. There's still plenty of skill in this kind of game, but it will require people to think out a new strategy.

I knew people would be wary of this kind of game. I just hope we can give it a try.

[Autumn]

Tyketime, I think I speak for all of us in saying that we really, really want new players, and so having someone new come along is not a burden at all. It's fantastic to see someone trying it. We all were newbies at some point.

At times in the past we've had problems with people getting really emotional about the game, yes. It seems to me that we've gotten past that, I can't recall any issues in the last slate of games. You definnitely have to go into it reminding yourself not ot take it personally - someone's likely to call you a liar at some point in the game, and you just have to remember you very well could be if you get the right role.

If you end up a villager, tyketime, you can always ask the other villagers in thread for advice, or PM the moderator. People are always glad to explain the conventions in the game, what's expected, blah, blah. And if you're a wolf the other wolves will give you advice in private message. I remember being really cautious about jumping in my first game (which was actually that Rome game discussed above), but it's really perfectly fine to do so. The worst thing that happens is you get lynched ;-)

[Lathum]

Count me out, no offense to Autumn and I hope his game is fantastic, but I swore I would never play in a no role reveal game again and I plan on sticking to that.

Tyke- I'll be more than happy to assist you with any questions, I may be spotty next week though, I have a business trip to Cleveland so my daytime availability will be limited.

[Autumn]

No offense taken, Lathum. I remember that you've said that before. That's great if you can help Tyke out, though it may get him lynched if people know you're helping him ;-)

[PackerFanatic]

I don't think I've ever been in a no roles revealed game, but it could be a fun twist. Count me in.

[EagleFan]

Still debating about signing up. I must be missing something but I am having trouble getting my head around how a game like this may work. I would think that it could be very easy for the wolves to spread out and hide their votes in a game like this. I can see it being maddening for a villager to really have nothing to go on.

The key would be the mortician. If he stays in the game it ends up being helpful and possible. The risk is that he ends up being the first one out. Interested in how this plays out.

I will probably give it a go if there can be a large enough group (something tells me this would work much better with a large game then a small one).


Oh, not making any judgements on the game or your decision to try it Autumn. Basically thinking "out loud" (the same thing that gets me in trouble in games).

[Autumn]

No problem, EF, I know it's a puzzle. That's what appealed to me. At first blush it seems impossible, and yet I can see games going on at other sites every day using these rules. And the wolves don't always win. Consider, for one thing, that the wolves never know if the seer has been killed, or the bodyguard. They also don't know, if a seer reveals, if it truly is the seer or just a villager bluffing.

I should also point out a couple things that will be different than our typical games. One is that it's possible there will be more than one priest or seer, that's part of how the village is balanced against the wolves, depending on numbers. Another is that once numbers are finalized everyone will be told exactly which roles are in the game, how many, including how many wolves. So while roles aren't revealed, it's very explicit what's in the game.

[hoopsguy]

Tyke, there is no reason to worry about taking a spot from another player. I can't recall the last time a moderator had a cap on the number of players who could participate in a game.

Hope you take the plunge and have fun with the game. And keep any and all sneaky stuff Lathum teaches you in mind for next game when you have a chance to vote for him.

[Autumn]

While I'd really like to give this a try, if the ruleset is keeping people away from the game, I will give a different game a try. I'd rather we keep Werewolf rolling one way or another.

[ntndeacon]

I am in

[JAG]

I'll give it a shot.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

While I'd really like to give this a try, if the ruleset is keeping people away from the game, I will give a different game a try. I'd rather we keep Werewolf rolling one way or another.

I probably wouldn't have played regardless unless there was a need for players so don't let my reluctance be a factor.

[PackerFanatic]

In case you missed my post earlier, Autumn, I am in

[Autumn]

Thanks, Packer, I did miss that somehow.

[Chief Rum]

I'm like Lathum--I am pretty sure I swore I would never play in a game like this again. I'm still thinking about it, Autumn, but just so you know...

Rome was a brutal, bitter game, and I am pretty sure we lost players permanently because of that game.

[Autumn]

Hmm, I wrote a reply that I guess got eaten somehow.

Basically I said that I was rereading Rome and I think there was a lot more to that than just the lack of reveals. There were many, many mechanics that were not transparent and so we were all a bit lost.

That said, no reveals is certainly a challenging idea for us. I have another game pretty much ready that I may run if it seems we'll get a better signup for it.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Hmm, I wrote a reply that I guess got eaten somehow.

Basically I said that I was rereading Rome and I think there was a lot more to that than just the lack of reveals. There were many, many mechanics that were not transparent and so we were all a bit lost.

That said, no reveals is certainly a challenging idea for us. I have another game pretty much ready that I may run if it seems we'll get a better signup for it.

There were other things going on in Rome that made it very frustrating, yes, but don't kid yourself--the no role reveal thing was absolutely huge and probably the #1 irritant.

[Autumn]

I posted another signup thread for my Vegas game. If it seems there's a lot more interest in that game (which is also crazy, but in different ways) I'm glad to run that instead.

[Lathum]

For some reason I am thinking of a different game that had no role reveals, a more basic one prior to Rome. I don't think I even played in the Rome game.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

For some reason I am thinking of a different game that had no role reveals, a more basic one prior to Rome. I don't think I even played in the Rome game.

Animal Farm

[CrimsonFox]

Am back from an absinthe, I mean absence, and will try this magical mystery game.

[Autumn]

You're in, CF.

Guys, sign up for the Vegas thread too, if you'd also be willing to play that one. Then I can see which one to run.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Animal Farm

Nope, not that one. I was killed early in that one.

[DaddyTorgo]

In

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Lathum

For some reason I am thinking of a different game that had no role reveals, a more basic one prior to Rome. I don't think I even played in the Rome game.

there was another one way back when...i dont remember which one, but it was brutal to try to play in

[EagleFan]

The games being referred to were before my time as a WW player but I started reading the Rome one. Just getting through the rules made my head hurt.

By the way, anyone know how st.c is doing?

[Darth Vilus]

in

[mauchow]

I'll be in. now that I've got internet on my phone I can post while at work. Ih aven't played one in ages though, so I will be rusty...even though I was rusty before, too.

[Lathum]

NOT in

[Autumn]

You sure you've got the right thread, Lathum? ;-)

[Lathum]

gah!

[Autumn]

lol, I've got you in writing now!