NBA Draft Lottery/Draft/Offseason thread.

[jbergey22]

Im not really disappointed the wolves got rid of Miller and Foye but I do think this is a great trade for Washington in that Foye fits in nicely with what they have.

Gilbert
Foye/Miller
Butler
Jamison

is a very strong foundation.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Remains to be seen if Kahn can have a good first offseason as GM, but unloading these two is a good start, and getting the #5 pick and only taking on 1 slightly bad contract makes it look like a pretty good deal if he can do something with the pick. Will be even better if he can manage to get something for Corey Brewer.

Brewer and Foye were considered really good prospects when they came out.

Could it be that the problem isn't the players but the inability of the T-Wolves to develop their talent?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Im not really disappointed the wolves got rid of Miller and Foye but I do think this is a great trade for Washington in that Foye fits in nicely with what they have.

Gilbert
Foye/Miller
Butler
Jamison

is a very strong foundation.

Is there anyone who is even going to pretend to play defense in Washington next season? If you are advocating that they don't need to be because they are going to score on everyone with an uptempo attack, then who is playing point guard for them?

I think this team is hot garbage.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Woohoo! Foye and Miller are gone!



I feel the same way, hopefully the Wolves are moving up for Thabeet instead of Rubio. They need someone next to Jefferson or Love.

There is no chance Thabeet is there at 5. You pretty much have to get up to 2 to get Thabeet. Since no other players are really differentiated from one another (i.e. lots of guards available) Thabeet is the second most valuable commodity in this draft. He'll go second.

At least I hope they want a point guard, cause that's what they're getting at 5.

Unless its Harden. It really could be Harden. And then a PG at 6.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Samdari

There is no chance Thabeet is there at 5. You pretty much have to get up to 2 to get Thabeet. Since no other players are really differentiated from one another (i.e. lots of guards available) Thabeet is the second most valuable commodity in this draft. He'll go second.

At least I hope they want a point guard, cause that's what they're getting at 5.

Unless its Harden. It really could be Harden. And then a PG at 6.

That's what I'm hoping for. A lot of the rumors I've read had the Wolves trading for the 5th pick so they could package it to try and move up to 2.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Brewer and Foye were considered really good prospects when they came out.

Could it be that the problem isn't the players but the inability of the T-Wolves to develop their talent?

Well I don't think that they were all that good at it when Randy Wittman was the coach, neither one of those two was destined for stardom. Brewer's ceiling is a role player on defense, he came into t he NBA not having the fundamentals of dribbling or passing down, if he hadn't learned those things by the age of 22 I'm not gonna put him down as someone that wasn't developed by his pro coaches. Taking him at 7 was an unbelievable reach, especially with the players he was picked ahead of the the needs Minnesota had. With Foye the only mistake was not realizing they had the better player in Roy and leaving it at that. Foye doesn't have the shooting ability or skill to score inside to be a great scorer, and if any coach out there can teach him to be an effective point guard or better distributor as a 2 then I'll be surprised.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Are the Celtics really going to trade Rondo? Lots of smoke here, whether it's to PHX for Amare, DET in that package, or MEM for Gay/Conley. Ainge on WEEI this morning questioning his maturity.

The kid has no jump shot, but other than that he's pretty great. Interesting times.

[Logan]

Sports Guy was saying that the chemistry problems relating to him are starting to become bigger, and they may be trying to pawn him off before he fully busts out and everyone knows about them.

[MikeVic]

I was gonna post the same thing Logan just did... Simmons says there has to be something behind the scenes otherwise it doesn't make sense.

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting

if you trade him you've got zero PG though, and you have no first round pick to use on one. so you gotta have a plan for that.

[MikeVic]

Simmons and Chad Ford were talking about a Tony Parker/Rondo trade scenario too.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

interesting

if you trade him you've got zero PG though, and you have no first round pick to use on one. so you gotta have a plan for that.

On SOSH they're masturbating over some scenario where Rondo becomes the #2 and that pick and Allen become Chris Paul and all NO's bad contracts.

[stevew]

The Celtics could just sign the corpse of Jason Kidd, and he'd be solid for the next 2 years.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

On SOSH they're masturbating over some scenario where Rondo becomes the #2 and that pick and Allen become Chris Paul and all NO's bad contracts.

LOL

[DeToxRox]

From Rotoworld:

ESPN's Chad Ford has heard that Doc Rivers finds Rajon Rondo "stubborn" and "impossible to coach", and Celtics GM Danny Ainge revealed on Wednesday that Rondo was fined for being late to a home playoff game last season.
The Celtics recently included Rondo in a low-ball trade offer to the Pistons, and it looks like they're trying to unload him before he becomes a restricted free agent next summer. Ainge said bluntly, "[Rondo's] presence hurt us in winning right now because [against Orlando in the playoffs] his man went and doubled onto Ray [Allen] and Paul [Pierce] and made it difficult for us." Ainge doesn't feel Rondo deserves a max contract, and his trade value is probably at its peak, so expect his name to continue surfacing throughout the summer.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

From Rotoworld:

That makes it sound like they're just trying to give Rondo a wake-up call. There's no other reason Ainge would publically criticize a player he's trying to move.

[Sublime 2]

Latest Rondo rumor I've seen floated around I find far more interesting. Rondo+Scalabrini+JR Giddens for Mike Conley and Rudy Gay. Gay becomes the uber 6th man to rest PP and Ray Ray while logging starter mins. They keep Ray's expiring deal and have far more financial flexibility.

More and more smoke.

Edit: sorry guys posted from my bberry, didn't see all the Rondo talk already.

[RainMaker]

Rondo plays like a bitch so it's not a surprise he acts like one in the locker room. As others have said, there has to be some big issues behind the scenes to be so willing to unload a good young PG like him.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Latest Rondo rumor I've seen floated around I find far more interesting. Rondo+Scalabrini+JR Giddens for Mike Conley and Rudy Gay. Gay becomes the uber 6th man to rest PP and Ray Ray while logging starter mins. They keep Ray's expiring deal and have far more financial flexibility.

More and more smoke.

Edit: sorry guys posted from my bberry, didn't see all the Rondo talk already.

That trade makes absolutely no sense for Memphis. So it's probably done already.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

That trade makes absolutely no sense for Memphis. So it's probably done already.

It'd be a money move I'm guessing. They get to build a team around Rondo and Mayo while potentially bringing in a free agent in 2010.

I would argue that the move doesn't make sense for Boston. Rondo was their best player in the playoffs most of the time. In a league where quick point guards are huge, it eliminates one of the best. I think it puts a lot more pressure on the aging Pierce and Allen. Gay would certainly help but who knows how he'll react in a more pressure filled situation.

[hoopsguy]

Shaq to Cleveland for Big Ben and Pavlovic is being reported on ESPN. I know that move has been talked about in the past but supposedly it is now just awaiting ownership approval.

hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4285489

The Cleveland Cavaliers and the Phoenix Suns are nearing agreement on a blockbuster trade that would send Shaquille O'Neal to Cleveland to team with LeBron James, according to two sources with knowledge of the discussions.


The deal is more than "90 percent" complete, according to the sources, and is merely awaiting final approval from the team's owners.
Cleveland will send Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic to Phoenix for the future Hall of Famer.


The trade gives the Cavs a player they've coveted since February. With center Zydrunas Ilgauskas starting to break down, adding Shaq to the roster gives them a dominant force in the middle. The Cavs were obviously unhappy with their ability to defend Dwight Howard in the playoffs and bringing Shaq into the fold should help.


For the Suns, the move is a straight salary dump. Pavlovic's $5 million dollar contract next season is only partially guaranteed for the amount of $1.5 million. Factor in the disparities in the contracts between Wallace, Pavlovic and Shaq and the team will save $4.5 milliion next season. However, when you factor in the savings they'll reap on the luxury tax, it will be closer to $10 million in savings. That savings can be amplified if Wallace decides to retire and the Suns buy him out of his contract for less than the $14 million he's owed next season.


The trade is a pretty strong admission by the Suns that they screwed up when they traded Shawn Marion for Shaq in February of 2007. Marion was a free agent this summer and, had they let him walk, their savings would've been $21 million not the $5.5 million they're saving in this deal.
When the Suns made the trade they had the best record in the Western Conference. This year they finished in the lottery. With Shaq gone, the question is ... are the Suns finally rebuilding?


Sources say that the team would still like to compete. They still have veterans Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, Jason Richardson and Leandro Barbosa. They also have the 14th pick in the draft this year and second year player Robin Lopez.

[Big Fo]

I can't wait to see Howard abuse Shaq next season. The Suns never should have hired Kerr.

[Gary Gorski]

With Crawford rumored to be traded to ATL shortly if Mike Bibby is willing to take the MLE he could end up in Boston allowing them to move Rondo for whatever they want without having to get a PG in return.

Now I don't know if Bibby or Kidd would go for the MLE - my guess is they wouldn't want to but I don't know if ATL would want Bibby back now. Obviously the Mavs want to keep Kidd so he'll get paid but the Hawks would have Crawford and Joe Johnson so what do they do with Bibby?

[DaddyTorgo]

the nba trading system and salary-dump trades really fuck with my enjoyment of the league.

[Big Fo]

That's one of the reasons I don't mind baseball's economic system so much even if that also has its faults.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It'd be a money move I'm guessing. They get to build a team around Rondo and Mayo while potentially bringing in a free agent in 2010.

I would argue that the move doesn't make sense for Boston. Rondo was their best player in the playoffs most of the time. In a league where quick point guards are huge, it eliminates one of the best. I think it puts a lot more pressure on the aging Pierce and Allen. Gay would certainly help but who knows how he'll react in a more pressure filled situation.

The problem for Memphis is it isn't a place most NBA players want to go to. Even with cap room they're not going to land Wade, Lebron, or Bosh. They can land a 2nd tier star such as Rashard Lewis with a max deal and that's probably their limit. Gay has the potential to be just that type of player and Conley looked solid the last couple months of the season.

From Boston's perspective, if they don't plan on resigning Rondo and he's as big of a headache as reported then they're landing a guy that would instantly be one of the top 6th men in the league and a young, pass first point guard that was a top 5 pick just 2 years ago.

After the Gasol trade it seemed they had decided to blow things up and just start over. Everyone ripped them for the trade, but at least it seemed like they had a direction in mind. Now just a year and half later they're starting over again by trading two starters that are ages 22 and 21.

[stevew]

Shaq-fu beeyatches!

Too bad this was 6 months too late to matter.

Not that it would have anyways.

The carcass of shaq at 20m for the carcass of Ben Wallace(14m) and the dumb euro guy Pavs(who will be bought out)

I guess I'm glad I won't have to see Sasha anymore.

[stevew]

dola-
The Cavs just threw another 10m on the luxury tax pile, I'm guessing the cheap seats will be more like 60-70 instead of 30-40.

[jbergey22]

Whats the story with this Rubio? Is he really worthy of the 2nd overall pick the Twolves are willing to trade up for? Seems kind of slow footed and from what I hear hes not a good pull up shooter. Sure hes 18 but Europeans flop on a consistent basis. Are we sure McHale has really left the team? Id love for them to come out of this draft with Thabeet, DeRozen and Ty Lawson. Of course that will never happen but with DeRozen and Thabeet they be instantly a talented defensive team if nothing else.

[stevew]

I don't follow the college game at all, and the recruiting etc.

When's the next time we'll see an "it" legit franchise type player available in the draft? I'm sure Griffin will probably be good, but we're talking a, what, 20-10 max guy.

Is the next big thing even on the radar yet...that's basically what I'm asking.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

I don't follow the college game at all, and the recruiting etc.

When's the next time we'll see an "it" legit franchise type player available in the draft? I'm sure Griffin will probably be good, but we're talking a, what, 20-10 max guy.

Is the next big thing even on the radar yet...that's basically what I'm asking.

Don't really have a legit answer for ya, but I'll say this--there were only two 20-10 guys in the league this past season, and only five more within 18-8.

If Griffin comes anywhere close to 20-10 in the next three seasons, I as a Clips fan will be ecstatic.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The problem for Memphis is it isn't a place most NBA players want to go to. Even with cap room they're not going to land Wade, Lebron, or Bosh. They can land a 2nd tier star such as Rashard Lewis with a max deal and that's probably their limit. Gay has the potential to be just that type of player and Conley looked solid the last couple months of the season.

From Boston's perspective, if they don't plan on resigning Rondo and he's as big of a headache as reported then they're landing a guy that would instantly be one of the top 6th men in the league and a young, pass first point guard that was a top 5 pick just 2 years ago.

After the Gasol trade it seemed they had decided to blow things up and just start over. Everyone ripped them for the trade, but at least it seemed like they had a direction in mind. Now just a year and half later they're starting over again by trading two starters that are ages 22 and 21.

I can only think that they feel Rondo is a franchise player who will be one of the top 3-5 point guards in the league. That in the deal, they would be ending up with the best player. That Rondo has the talent that you can build a team around, and due to him not being a bigger name, he'll probably be willing to sign in Memphis long term and be their star. With that in place, plus Thabeet and a high pick or free agent next year, they could be a young playoff team.

I don't necessarily agree with that, but I don't think the trade is horrible. Conley is OK at PG. Gay is a good player but not someone who is capable of leading a team.

But it's Memphis and they'll surely make the stupid moves. This is the team who is passing on Rubio for Thabeet.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Whats the story with this Rubio? Is he really worthy of the 2nd overall pick the Twolves are willing to trade up for? Seems kind of slow footed and from what I hear hes not a good pull up shooter. Sure hes 18 but Europeans flop on a consistent basis. Are we sure McHale has really left the team? Id love for them to come out of this draft with Thabeet, DeRozen and Ty Lawson. Of course that will never happen but with DeRozen and Thabeet they be instantly a talented defensive team if nothing else.

Rubio is not as quick as PGs today but has better ball handling than most point guards in the league right now. He is a pass first point guard who has experience playing in big games against big stars. I think the talk of his shooting is overblown as not many 18 year olds have a good shot when coming into the draft. He'll get that as he develops. He's also got good size.

I think you have to take him at #2. Not just for the potential he has, but for the buzz he'd create for the franchise. Memphis is beyond stupid for passing up on him.

[k0ruptr]

I agree 20-10 is vastly underrated at this point.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Rubio is not as quick as PGs today but has better ball handling than most point guards in the league right now. He is a pass first point guard who has experience playing in big games against big stars. I think the talk of his shooting is overblown as not many 18 year olds have a good shot when coming into the draft. He'll get that as he develops. He's also got good size.

I think you have to take him at #2. Not just for the potential he has, but for the buzz he'd create for the franchise. Memphis is beyond stupid for passing up on him.

Agree with your comments, but the only problem i see with him signing for Memphis is that he has already stated he doesn't want to go there, so i guess Memphis could be scared of picking him at #2 and then Rubio deciding to stay in Spain, specially when he needs to pay $6M to break his contract with his current team (it should be lowered to half that after the lawsuit they are into).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Icy

Agree with your comments, but the only problem i see with him signing for Memphis is that he has already stated he doesn't want to go there, so i guess Memphis could be scared of picking him at #2 and then Rubio deciding to stay in Spain, specially when he needs to pay $6M to break his contract with his current team (it should be lowered to half that after the lawsuit they are into).

While the buyout is big, it's not as big as wasting a year. With the way salaries are structured, players just need to get in quickly so they can build up their time toward free agency. Going back to Spain for a year just means one more year he'll have to wait for the big payday (as well as another year for teams to find weaknesses in his game). If he refuses to play for Memphis, do they lose the rights for him next year and he goes back into the draft?

From what I've been reading, he's been a bitch about the whole process. Doesn't want to play in Memphis or OKC and has made some comments about how Minnesota is too cold for his mom.

I have a feeling he ends up in Sacramento.

[JeeberD]

There's a ton of speculation on the Rockets board that the Rox are going to trade TMac and Aaron Brooks for Amare Stoudamire and an expensive body (Barbosa is the most commonly seen name). Then they would use Carl Landry as trade bait to move up in the draft to get a PG to replace Brooks...

Arles, are y'all hearing anything like that out your way?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I can't wait to see Howard abuse Shaq next season. The Suns never should have hired Kerr.

But, tv analysts who have never worked in an NBA front office usually make GREAT general managers.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I would argue that the move doesn't make sense for Boston. Rondo was their best player in the playoffs most of the time. In a league where quick point guards are huge, it eliminates one of the best.

Note: if you trade for Mike Conley, you absolutely, positively, do not lose quickness. You may lose playing ability and a rudimentary understanding of the game, but not quickness.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

the nba trading system and salary-dump trades really fuck with my enjoyment of the league.

Originally Posted by Big Fo

That's one of the reasons I don't mind baseball's economic system so much even if that also has its faults.

You mean where all the salary dumps go to a handful of teams who can afford them?

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

I don't follow the college game at all, and the recruiting etc.

When's the next time we'll see an "it" legit franchise type player available in the draft? I'm sure Griffin will probably be good, but we're talking a, what, 20-10 max guy.

Is the next big thing even on the radar yet...that's basically what I'm asking.

Yeah, so it's a down year for the draft. But LeBron doesn't come around every year and last I checked, most teams could use a guy who can clean the glass and score at the same time. Not only that but he's NBA ready and you have a better idea of his ceiling/floor. The jury's out on whether he's someone you can completely build a franchise around but he sure as hell can be a quality 2nd or 3rd piece to the puzzle at least.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

There's a ton of speculation on the Rockets board that the Rox are going to trade TMac and Aaron Brooks for Amare Stoudamire and an expensive body (Barbosa is the most commonly seen name). Then they would use Carl Landry as trade bait to move up in the draft to get a PG to replace Brooks...

Arles, are y'all hearing anything like that out your way?

I was reading Morey's quotes in the Chronicle where he seems dead set about wanting to move into this draft and I just don't understand it. It's a weak draft so why trade something that is useful (rotation player for 2009-10) for something that isn't so much (a mid-late 1st round draft pick in a weak draft).

If they're trading TMac, does that mean they're planning to keep Artest? Unless they can get a contract they can walk away from back in return, they can't lose both of those guys and replace all that scoring. Their biggest need is still PG and I'd be content with a distributor and defender there, but unless they have some magic way to get CP3- I don't see them replacing those points.

I guess I understand getting Stoudamire- he's a quality PF, but, again, isn't the biggest need the Rockets have, it's PG. I'm content with the Scola/Landry PF combo- they're not great but they're cheap and can get the job done

Then again, I also saw the little blurb about Yao still not being healed yet. If he's not going to be right next year, I guess planning for 09-10 isn't that important.

SI

[sterlingice]

Ok, so Dallas trades #22 to Portland for #24, #56, and their worst 2nd next year.

...Why?

#56 and a similar pick next year are worthless- guys drafted that low hardly ever make a team, particularly for a veteran squad like Dallas where most of the team is set.

SI

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

You mean where all the salary dumps go to a handful of teams who can afford them?

SI

You rarely see anything as lopsided as the Gasol to the Lakers trade in baseball in terms of how it affects the teams on the field/court. But that doesn't mean baseball doesn't have other problems.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

You rarely see anything as lopsided as the Gasol to the Lakers trade in baseball in terms of how it affects the teams on the field/court. But that doesn't mean baseball doesn't have other problems.

Gasol to the Lakers was the primary one that I was thinking of (along with this Shaq-thing)

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Ok, so Dallas trades #22 to Portland for #24, #56, and their worst 2nd next year.

...Why?

#56 and a similar pick next year are worthless- guys drafted that low hardly ever make a team, particularly for a veteran squad like Dallas where most of the team is set.

SI

One possibility is that if you think the same calibur player is at 24 then he's cheaper plus you're getting two free swings at players. True, neither is likely to ever see the NBA but the picks aren't guaranteed contracts or would be cheap players they could stick in the NBDL if they think they have some potential. Unless there's really a guy you want at 22 and he's gone by 24 then there's really not much downside to the deal.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Gasol to the Lakers was the primary one that I was thinking of (along with this Shaq-thing)

Well the Grizz did get Marc Gasol and a couple 1st round picks - not enough to make it a fair trade value wise but at least they got something.

On that note I don't know what Cleveland is thinking here. You don't need a 37 year old 300lb man to defend Howard - the Lakers did a pretty nice job with out one in the Finals. Cleveland could have taken that junk and addressed a need - like a legitimate 2nd scorer like Michael Redd or perhaps someone who can defend a perimiter playing PF. That's one terrible organization there - how do you not unload Szcerbiak's contract for something last season when you could have made this same Shaq deal then? Why Shaq now? So you hope he stays healthy an entire season just to split minutes with Z? Why is Mike Brown still coaching this team? I can't imagine why LeBron would consider leaving this debacle.

[stevew]

It's really hard being a fan Gary, I agree it's a borderline debacle.

No way I make the trade for Shaq Fu now, not when I can get a much better player with those contracts.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Gasol to the Lakers was the primary one that I was thinking of (along with this Shaq-thing)

I don't think that 70 year old Shaq is who you think he is.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by stevew

It's really hard being a fan Gary, I agree it's a borderline debacle.

No way I make the trade for Shaq Fu now, not when I can get a much better player with those contracts.

I agree - the team was a disaster and with one player you've been within reach of the championship. In 12 months there's a chance this franchise goes right back to the bottom of the league. It's an absolute shame that in his time there LeBron has been surrounded with a joke of a front office and head coach as well as not one single fairly young player with the potential of being a long-time solid #2 option to LeBron.

I don't see how this trade does anything but push LeBron out the door. If you win and its attributed to Shaq's help then LeBron knows an even older Shaq may not even be back so the team isn't any better plus he delivered the city a title so he can leave knowing he brought that home. If they don't win then LeBron can see that all they gave him was an old Shaq and leave because the organization isn't serious about getting in long term players to build with.

They better do whatever it takes to make another move to bring in someone who might actually help them win it this year and be there to continue winning in the future.