WW CXXVI: Wolves in Asgard - Game Over (Result in Post 2538)

[mauchow]

vote tn


This game more than any other I'm completely lacking in solid gut feelings. Usually i have a few solid readings of people but it never picks up steam. I am still open to visiting narcizo and zinto. Zintos record looks good but I can't shake the feeling. Narcizo from the early going struck me as the same as another game he was a wolf...a really helpful to the village wolf.

Anyway.. ntn for now but I'm open to move.

I think ill be around tonight... if baby sleeps like he should.

[hoopsguy]

Mau, assuming you intend to use your ability just make sure you have the order in ... I know how kids can mess up the best laid plans of being around FOFC WW games.

[Zinto]

I am willing to give ntn the rest of the day to come around and then if Jag can't find a replacement I think we have to lynch him. Right now other then the fact he has been silent and my belief that as a wolf he would put the vote on Danny early day one to gain trust later down the road.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I would agree, 18 months ago or whatever I would be more aggressive by now. But I feel like I have no read on anyone. I see BK do something totally villager-BK-ish (to me) and I'm told that's out of step. I see Lathum be Lathum, and I'm told this is new/different. I'm told lynching people on Day one who make good wolves (and good villagers) is a bad idea (lo and behold, that person was a wolf). Next thing I know, they're gonna tell me you're not a good wolf hoopsie.

So I"m being more cautious than usual, yes. Probably with good reason, two people I had big-time radar being pinged on early in the game, are looking villager (Racer for sure and NTN I'm off of due to the non-vote)

Agh, I really can't decide on who to vote for or even push today.

I find it hard to evaluate something objectively when it is in regards to me. To me, this post came across a bit as me definitively being a villager when really the only people playing that who knows that for sure are me and whoever the wolves are.

EF, as a cleared villager, I'm curious to know what you think. I think there may have been one other post that caught me off from Jeheinz as well but I don't remember what it was (or I may be misremembering).

Jeheinz seems a bit more involved today and his involvement strikes me more of a villager trying to get involved though then a wolf "faking" it.

I haven't had a good record so far though thinking that both Autumn and Thomkal had a good chance of turning up as bad (as well as ntn who we don't know about yet). Jeheinz's voting record also isn't the greatest. His vote today also seemed like it could be a cop out. I started off the ntndeacon voting yesterday but it was because of a combination of his lack involvement and his voting record (which at second glance isn't good but not as bad as I thought).

All that being said, I'm leaning towards someone other then Jeheinz right now mainly because I've been off with both Autumn and Thomkal and Danny (who I only voted for because I felt slightly better about EF).

Right now, I'm leaning towards Lathum. His voting record isn't the worst but it isn't all that good. I have no read on Hoops is the one problem I have with that though.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Zinto

I am willing to give ntn the rest of the day to come around and then if Jag can't find a replacement I think we have to lynch him. Right now other then the fact he has been silent and my belief that as a wolf he would put the vote on Danny early day one to gain trust later down the road.

Yeah I feel like this is a pretty good possibility as well.

[Zinto]

I am not particularly enamored with the two other candidates, since before Lathum fell out of the game I pretty much completely believed he was a villager. I am not sure about Telle. I don't know(still) what to make of the whole hammer situation. Her voting history is not great but I do give her somewhat of a pass for day four and five since she was on the block both times.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Zinto

I am not particularly enamored with the two other candidates, since before Lathum fell out of the game I pretty much completely believed he was a villager. I am not sure about Telle. I don't know(still) what to make of the whole hammer situation. Her voting history is not great but I do give her somewhat of a pass for day four and five since she was on the block both times.

Yeah his tantrum with Chubby seemed villagerish. He is one of two players with an unknown alignment who voted for Chubby on day one with the other being mauboy. The other two were DV and bhlloy.

Day two he unvoted Chubby and then voted for Danny to extend Danny's lead over Chubby to 8-4. Prior to that it was 7-5 so he was a bit late to the action.

Day three he flipped back and forth between DV and Barkeep before sticking with DV and extending DV's lead over Lathum and Barkeep to 6-4-4.

[Zinto]

I forgot that McKerney semi-cleared Barkeep, Telle, and Mr. Bug so voting for either three is a lower percentage play. That leaves myself, ntn, Lathum, heinz, and hoops as our best options for today.

[Racer]

With ntndeacon, we might want to take a closer look at his day two voting. I myself didn't really understand what was going on between Danny and Chubby with both of them basically declaring the other a wolf if I remember correctly.

After Chubby came out and said he knew for sure that Danny was a wolf, ntndeacon voted for Chubby. The post number of Chubby's push for Danny came in post 694. Ntndeacon voted for Chubby in post 709 and didn't unvote him until 2 hours and 2 minutes later.

If ntndeacon was a wolf, would he do that or would he distance himself as far from Danny as possible?

[Danny]

Who loves short shorts! He loves short shorts!

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Zinto

I forgot that McKerney semi-cleared Barkeep, Telle, and Mr. Bug so voting for either three is a lower percentage play. That leaves myself, ntn, Lathum, heinz, and hoops as our best options for today.

Looking past ntn's complete absence, who would be your main preference to lynch and why?

[MrBug708]

It seems like any "role reveals" at this point would draw some suspicion from me because we've gone far enough that any villager withholding their role until now is just detrimental to us

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by Racer

Looking past ntn's complete absence, who would be your main preference to lynch and why?

I think I would pick Heinz. You are right that ntn's day two would be an odd move for a wolf to do depending on what they hoped to accomplish from Danny's reveal. Lathum has me holding out on him being a villager. Hoops has been the most helpful of the group so I am not inclined to vote for him currently. I also am not going to vote for myself so that leaves...

Vote Heinz

[Racer]

My thoughts btw:

Heinz - stuff already mentioned
ntndeacon - Reasons for and reasons against already mentioned

Lathum - Basically not the greatest record and not being helpful at all.

Hoops - Seems completely counter-intuitive. He seems to be steering conversation right now which could be a good thing or bad thing depending on his alignment. I was pretty indifferent between Autumn and ntndeacon last night but Hoops definitely seemed to prefer Autumn over ntndeacon. That doesn't make him a wolf though.

I have absolutely no read on him. He also sort of voted for Lathum for the same reasons a lot of people are wanting to vote ntndeacon which doesn't seem quite right.

I don't know, the more I discuss Hoops, the more I'm inclined to vote for him which probably isn't a good thing. I don't want to talk myself into voting for someone.

[Racer]

To go further on Hoops though, if Hoops is a wolf and ntndeacon is one as well, I almost think he'd be cutting him lose by now unless ntndeacon is a wolf and they're hoping to replace him (like if he is Loki for example). He'd probably be worth sticking another wolf's neck out for then.

[MrBug708]

If Hoops is a wolf, I would assume that items cannot be passed from one wolf to another, which would be interesting to know as far as items go

If ntn is a villager, I would nominate Danny as someone to replace him

[Racer]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If Hoops is a wolf, I would assume that items cannot be passed from one wolf to another, which would be interesting to know as far as items go

If ntn is a villager, I would nominate Danny as someone to replace him

I could see the wolves keeping EagleFan in the game though just to try to gain trust for mistletoe holders. Also, the list is pretty short for the people who have had mistletoe so the wolves may not think EagleFan is worth that trouble right now if you, Hoops, or somebody else who has had it is a wolf.

[Zinto]

I will probably go back and read most of Hoops posts and see if I can see what you are talking about Race.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Lathum is the person who has dropped completely off the radar today. As far as I can tell, the thing that has spoken best for him was being in a close race against Darth.

I'm going to go back and do a quick revisit of Zinto before laying down a vote.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Anyway, I'm going to go with where I went yesterday and where I trust the overall group of people I'm voting with more than the others.

This ended up being a little bit harder to cast than I thought it would be when I was reading along last night. But I still think this is the best vote for today.

VOTE AUTUMN

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm wondering what the heck is up with Lathum? Zero posts in the thread today. And he just posted in the "WW Fantasy Football" thread so he is at least around enough to do that.

Did he post over the weekend about availability issues?

This makes me pretty uneasy. Probably not to the point of doing something about it tonight but I certainly hope he'll be more active going forward. He is a good villager, and I want an engaged Lathum on my side.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Just looking at the NTN voters vs the Autumn voters - significant differences in levels of trust for me between those two blocs. I'm staying where I am.

Originally Posted by JAG

Day 5 voting as of post #1957:

6 - ntndeacon - jeheinz72 (1865), Zinto (1868), mckerney (1869), Telle (1909), Autumn (1928), EagleFan (1941)
5 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), MrBug708 (1821), hoopsguy (1895), mauboy1 (1914), Racer (1943)
3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Eagle I think that's a mistake. That vote just really just gives us Thomkal part 2.

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Why is ntn in the conversation today? It feels like a similar push to what got us Thomkal which I also didn't really understand.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I just worry when NTN is trotted out as a candidate because he seems like an "easy target" since you can always make the claim that he is quiet. That stuff works fine for sorting stuff out in the first day or two, but it is a lousy reason to introduce someone on Day 5 in my mind.

I have to believe that if we had a seer we would have heard something by now, so I'm not expecting to get info on good/bad outside of lynches the rest of the way. And if we're going to go hunting for people at this point, I would think there are better candidates out there than NTN. Lathum and Heinz are both playing very low-key villagers, and they are people who frequently provide a lot of value as villagers. I'm more concerned with them than I am with NTN, even at the risk of ignoring yesterday's vote.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm going to cast a vote for the very disinterested Lathum. He's lower on my trust list at this stage in the game, his activity level has been more or less shot since Chubby stopped crusading against him, and I want to see where this goes for right now.

VOTE LATHUM

Looks like I got confused who I felt wanted ntndeacon over Autumn. It was Barkeep not Hoops. But yeah, those are some of the Hoops posts' and Barkeep's posts that I thought were Hoops' posts.

[Racer]

Dola, I think those Barkeep posts might be out of order.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm sure a few wolves would be willing to help out with lynching me - it shouldn't be much harder than getting any other villagers. But probably easier tomorrow when I can't work from home and argue my case quite as forcefully as I might today.

I'm not going to push for all kinds of trust with the mistletoe. I thought I had a really strong villager resume earlier in the game but the last couple of votes have brought me back to the pack. I certainly wouldn't be miffed if my name was suggested, or at least not like I was at the start of Day 4.

Also, the one thing that did strike me as weird with Hoops is that this came out of nowhere. No one has even been suggesting him as a lynch candidate the last few days I don't think. It seemed sort of a jab not to lynch him.

[Racer]

I think I'm going to look at Barkeep a bit more actually before making a vote.

[MrBug708]

Lathum being MIA mostly is odd, but he did claim he was on a mini-vacation

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

DAY ONE



Danny 7: ntndeacon (80), Telle (205), jeheinz72 (217), dubb93 (238), Racer (307), EagleFan (308), Zinto (320)
EagleFan 6: Barkeep49 (75), hoopsguy (97), Autumn (174), J23 (276), Chubby (344), Danny (346)
Chubby 4: bhlloy (117), Darth Vilus (236), mauboy1 (273), Lathum (309)
Lathum 2: Narcizo (90), Thomkal (224)
ntndeacon 1: mckerney (94)
Zinto 1: MrBug708 (134)

Something I just thought of with regards to the day one vote. Big time hunc here by the way. Of the six EagleFan voters, three are dead villagers, one is a dead wolf, and two are unknowns (Barkeep and Hoops). If it's vote manipulation, it's probably either Barkeep or Hoops doing it. That seems like a Loki power who according to mckerney seems to have multiple powers. I think Mckerney, also said Barkeep isn't Loki. Danny seemed to be the brutal wolf. Combined with having no read on him,

Vote Hoopsguy

[Racer]

If it's vote manipulation and Mckerney is telling the truth, I think it's Hoops.

[Racer]

I could be wrong here, but I definitely would like to see some more votes on Hoops after realizing this. If Vote manipulation happened day one, it seems like a Loki power. I just don't see Danny having that power.

If it's a evil duke, then we end up lynching a vanilla villager probably (which Hoops claimed to be at the beginning of the game).

[MrBug708]

So if Hoops is good, than Barkeep is bad?

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

vote tn


This game more than any other I'm completely lacking in solid gut feelings. Usually i have a few solid readings of people but it never picks up steam. I am still open to visiting narcizo and zinto. Zintos record looks good but I can't shake the feeling. Narcizo from the early going struck me as the same as another game he was a wolf...a really helpful to the village wolf.

Anyway.. ntn for now but I'm open to move.

I think ill be around tonight... if baby sleeps like he should.

unvote tn

Nobody is tn. Stupid phone. I will re-vote here momentarily. I still might land on ntn but I want to gather myself and see what racer is saying..

[Racer]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So if Hoops is good, than Barkeep is bad?

Maybe. It seems like vote manipulation is a power that Loki would have in my opinion though which Barkeep has been cleared of.

Let me reread the other roles to see if seems like something any of the other roles might have. If so, I might be jumping the gun a bit on Hoops.

The thing is though, if it is vote manipulation, I think almost certainly one of them is bad since Danny was the brutal wolf.

[MrBug708]

It also begs the question of how the mistletoe ended up with JS from Hoops? I'll go back and see if it was sent to him the same night he was killed? Maybe hoping it would get randomized to another wolf?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Pass it to me, I can be trusted!

Found this from Lathum, asking for the mistletoe

[Racer]

Vote manipulation sounds like a power Utgaard Loki could have but DV wasn't even on EagleFan. Does it seem likely he could pretend to vote for Chubby but actually send two votes EagleFan's way instead?

It just seems much more likely to be a Loki power in my opinion. McKerney has cleared Barkeep of not being this particular wolf.

If it was a evil duking or something other then a vote manipulation on day one though, then Barkeep and Hoops both could be good.

I'm leaning heavily towards staying on Hoops at this point. Even if he turns up good, it would provide more clarity on the day one vote (i.e. making vote manipulation unlikely).

If Hoops isn't lynched tonight, he absolutely should be McKerney's Loki scan tonight.

[MrBug708]

From the looks of it, J23 did get the mistletoe directly from Hoops

[Zinto]

I am willing to move onto Hoops since he fits my five person grouping if no one else ends up voting for Heinz.

[MrBug708]

So if Hoops is a villager, does that tell us two things, about both McKerney and Barkeep?

[Racer]

It makes Barkeep look worse. I don't know about McKerney since he claims he can only tell whether or not somebody is Loki or not.

Voting for Hoops basically means a few things:
1.) You think it's a good chance it was vote manipulation (seems like a Loki power). Barkeep isn't Loki according to McKerney. That leaves Hoops as the ONLY other player with an unknown allegiance on EagleFan.
2.) It was 7 votes Danny to 6 votes EagleFan day one. Unless it's an evil duke thing, I would think there would be multiple wolves on EagleFan to try to save Danny. Danny voted for EagleFan as well as three dead villagers. That leaves Barkeep and Hoops. So barring an evil duking day one that went to the second highest vote getter, the odds are quite high that either Barkeep or Hoops is a wolf.

[Racer]

I'd really like to see some traction on Hoops. He just seems like a lot better play at this point compared to Telle, EagleFan (yes I think he has a vote), NTN, Heinz, or Lathum.

[MrBug708]

So torn right now

[Zinto]

I will go and move my vote onto Hoops.

Unvote Heinz
Vote Hoops

[Telle]

Votes as of post #2187:

1 - mckerney - EagleFan (2083)
1 - Lathum - hoopsguy (2094)
1 - Telle - Narcizo (2113)
1 - ntndeacon - jeheinz (2135)
1 - jeheinz - Zinto (2163)
1 - hoopsguy - Racer (2174)

[MrBug708]

I gotta go with Racer on this. I had a bad feeling on Hoops early on, but he seemed to quell my thoughts with his answers. Hopefully his death answers more questions than creates them

Vote - Hoops

[EagleFan]

Wow, talk about spread out votes.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Racer

I could be wrong here, but I definitely would like to see some more votes on Hoops after realizing this. If Vote manipulation happened day one, it seems like a Loki power. I just don't see Danny having that power.

If it's a evil duke, then we end up lynching a vanilla villager probably (which Hoops claimed to be at the beginning of the game).

If it is vote manipulation does it have to be hoops or barkeep? Hypothetically, couldn't it be someone like jeheinz72 placing his vote on Danny and then moving his (or someone elses) vote to EF? To me this seems just as likely as it being hoops or barkeep.

[EagleFan]

I don't buy mckerney's reveal and his voting record is not good.

[EagleFan]

Now, cue the dramatic music...

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I figure that since we don't have much to go on right now I may as well reveal as Heimdall and hope that the small amount of information I have can somehow help us.

First, I mentioned that I thought Chubby was probably killed by Loki because he may have stronger attacks, the reason I think that is because Loki is the only wolf who can kill me. I'm immune to the abilities of Loki and attacks of wolves other than Loki, but not attacks from Loki. The abilities part makes me think that Loki may indeed have a conversion ability, but if you ask me it's not worth pursuing at this point unless we really do want to do the no lynch vote as mau suggested. I think we're better off going for a different target though. I'm somewhat more confident revealing with the belief that Loki used an action last night so if he's not able to be the one to attack or use an ability two nights in a row then I should be safe to perform another scan tonight.

I can also tell you that Telle is not Loki, so if the thought was that Loki created the fake hammer than Telle isn't the one who created the fake. It doesn't clear her since she could have passed it off to Loki, or we could be wrong that Loki needed to create the fake, but it's probably something worth considering. Other still alive that I know are not Loki are Barkeep and MrBug.

Originally Posted by mckerney

Yeah, I am unable to clear anyone. I know there had been suspicion that Telle had been Loki as far as the fake hammer went, so I thought it was relevant to confirm that she is not.

I also thought it was important to reveal being even though I know I'm safe from night attacks from the wolves, I'm not so sure I'm safe from attacks from other villagers. If mau is telling the truth I'd rather not end up at the other end of his sword.

I feel like I've been down this road before, but I'm not sold on this reveal. Don't these two things contradict each other?

[EagleFan]

I had a dream....

well, more of a vision...

In this vision was someone that looked like Thomkal. He sent me a message in this vision.

The problem is that not all of his message made it to me. I won't direct quote but I am still readiing it over to see if there is anything that I can use.

Apparently he could scan to see who killed him.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by mckerney

If it is vote manipulation does it have to be hoops or barkeep? Hypothetically, couldn't it be someone like jeheinz72 placing his vote on Danny and then moving his (or someone elses) vote to EF? To me this seems just as likely as it being hoops or barkeep.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I don't buy mckerney's reveal and his voting record is not good.

That post was int he works before I saw either of these two posts.

[JAG]

Day 6 voting as of post 2198:

hoopsguy 3 - Racer (2174), Zinto (2189), MrBug708 (2193)
ntndeacon 1 - jeheinz72 (2135)
mckerney 1 - EagleFan (2083)
Lathum 1 - hoopsguy (2094)
Telle 1 - Narcizo (2113)

[Telle]

Oooh.. very interesting EagleFan.