Rio Grande-Quad City (1973 offseason)

[Cringer]

Part two, and I am actually very happy with how this has turned out.

Rio Grande sends: 2B Rodrigo Cruz (AAA)

Quad City sends: SP Jose "Chunky" Medina


Yes, we traded Medina away last year. We got a 2nd round pick out of it that we used on a young SP who will hopefully be in the bigs in a few seasons. I have tried to move Cruz for a young pitcher for a couple seasons now, so it kind of worked out I think. I wish QC luck with Cruz, who would have had to wait to get a legit shot with us.

[Young Drachma]

Confirmed.

[Young Drachma]

I was hoping Chunky would be part of what would get us to the postseason this year, but it wasn't quite meant to be. That said, we're thrilled to have been part of his resurgence and hope that he begins the tail end of a great career back in Rio Grande. Cruz will be just what we need, with Javier Medina struggling down in the lineup and making me wonder if it's just a matter of me needing to move him up (because he strikes out too much) or something else.

With Christian Larsen and Clay Darby both aging and bordering on useless to diminished effectiveness, this is just what we need to shore up our middle infield depth.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

With Christian Larsen and Clay Darby both aging and bordering on useless to diminished effectiveness, this is just what we need to shore up our middle infield depth.

In other news, wow, the QCY trade machine never sleeps! The only thing that surprises me is that the deal wasn't with Hartford.

[Young Drachma]

Well, I dunno if it's comforting or not..but the QCY trade machine hasn't even gotten started yet.

This is just the completion of the deal as it was written when we first made the initial swap that sent Medina to Quad City. It was pre-negotiated that Rio Grande would have the option to reacquire him after this year. His agent insisted on that and the two parties were able to work out a deal.

Seems that you can really accomplish stuff when everyone is on the same page...well and when a team is willing to pay the full freight of his contract to test out whether he's still got anything left. Mission accomplished.

It was really a win-win trade. No we didn't make the playoffs, but...he got his career back and he did his part to keep us in the hunt, which is what we acquired him for. Betancourt would not have won 18 games, so...it was a fun deal and I'm glad we worked it out.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Well, I dunno if it's comforting or not..but the QCY trade machine hasn't even gotten started yet.

This is just the completion of the deal as it was written when we first made the initial swap that sent Medina to Quad City. It was pre-negotiated that Rio Grande would have the option to reacquire him after this year. His agent insisted on that and the two parties were able to work out a deal.

Really? Honestly, this isn't a deal I give much of a snuff about as if it affects my team, but I am definitely not a big fan of the "option to reaquire".

I am okay with this one, because we don't have a rule in place for it, but I would strongly recommend outlawing this sorta move in the future. This has way too many possibilities for cap circumvention, rent a player fiascos and under the table dealing.

Not saying you guys were trying to do anything underhanded or sneaky. Just that this sort of deal, like some of the ones I have talked about in the past from a number of different teams and situations, does not pass the smell test.

[Young Drachma]

It wasn't a sweetheart deal. I had to pay him $9 million and he just managed to respond and have a career year. They expressed interest in reacquiring him and I told him when I acquired him that I had no real interest in keeping him beyond this year.

I maintain that I don't think we need to go overlegislating everything and I don't feel like in this league we have any real problems with people trying to cheat, at all.

I feel like we need to deal with stuff on an as-needed basis and we don't run into those problems here.
But I maintain we don't need to make new rules on anything like this, because they are no different than trades that may include future draft picks, the owners have to agree to it and if they don't, I'm not going to enforce those deals, because they're off the books and not official. It's just a matter of "good faith" or whatever the people decide they're gonna do.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It wasn't a sweetheart deal. I had to pay him $9 million and he just managed to respond and have a career year. They expressed interest in reacquiring him and I told him when I acquired him that I had no real interest in keeping him beyond this year.

I maintain that I don't think we need to go overlegislating everything and I don't feel like in this league we have any real problems with people trying to cheat, at all.

I feel like we need to deal with stuff on an as-needed basis and we don't run into those problems here.
But I maintain we don't need to make new rules on anything like this, because they are no different than trades that may include future draft picks, the owners have to agree to it and if they don't, I'm not going to enforce those deals, because they're off the books and not official. It's just a matter of "good faith" or whatever the people decide they're gonna do.

I never said unfair prices were paid for anyone involved in the deal. I just pointed out that setting up options to acquire could have the potential to be abused, and that we shouldn't set that up ahead of time. If we don't want to make a rule but state not to do it "in good faith", that is fine by me, but please then, in good faith, do not do it.

I have no problems if a year after the deal, without ever having discussed a return, the same two owners decide they want to to trade a player back to the team ge was acquired from. So long as it wasn't discussed before, and in both trades, equal value was dealt.

[Chief Rum]

Also, technically, you guys are really pushing the one year thing. Yes, a regular season has been played, but in reality, just three days between the trades. If you go by a week per year, you shouldn't be able to make this deal until Wednesday.

I also still think we shouldn't allow trades at all before the FOOL Classic, and really the trade deadline should be extended to the end of the year, as it is in real life.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Also, technically, you guys are really pushing the one year thing. Yes, a regular season has been played, but in reality, just three days between the trades. If you go by a week per year, you shouldn't be able to make this deal until Wednesday.

I also still think we shouldn't allow trades at all before the FOOL Classic, and really the trade deadline should be extended to the end of the year, as it is in real life.

I don't think the game will allow them to execute the trade until the "offseason" begins, which is after the fool classic is completed. (which is when trades should be allowed again probably anyhows). I had assumed this posting of this trade was just done ahead of time as it didn't really affect much, but it couldn't be executed until after the FOOL Classic is done tonight.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't think the game will allow them to execute the trade until the "offseason" begins, which is after the fool classic is completed. (which is when trades should be allowed again probably anyhows). I had assumed this posting of this trade was just done ahead of time as it didn't really affect much, but it couldn't be executed until after the FOOL Classic is done tonight.

True, but then we're saying it gets done Sunday night after the Classic, instead of before. It's still three days too short.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

True, but then we're saying it gets done Sunday night after the Classic, instead of before. It's still three days too short.

I guess that is the other different discussion that you bring up (which I didn't really comment on much). What does the year between trades actually mean? One full year as in 365 calendar days, or until the next season as in once the offseason hits they can be traded.

I honestly don't care which is chosen as long as it is applied evenly across all teams in a consistant manner.. so didn't really jump in on that point. It probably should be spelled out though to make sure all understand it.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't think the game will allow them to execute the trade until the "offseason" begins, which is after the fool classic is completed. (which is when trades should be allowed again probably anyhows). I had assumed this posting of this trade was just done ahead of time as it didn't really affect much, but it couldn't be executed until after the FOOL Classic is done tonight.

Well, the game won't allow us to do anything, because the trade thingy is off. I turned it off during the season so the AI doesn't try to do any shenanigans.

I don't turn it on again until the off-season starts. We have, in the past, had teams make trades the night of the Classic and post them after it's over. Because at that point, the season is over. The http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...ad.php?t=65680 rules thread indicated that the trade window started at the end of the regular season (like real baseball) for all but teams who still have games to play (FOOL Classic teams)

But that said, I don't see any reason why we can't simply wait to do this in a few days and make the rule that no trades can be consummated until Monday night when the off-season starts. So the trade window effective is Monday night to Thursday night. I've updated the rules thread to indicate that.

Seems fair enough to me. So no trades will get processed until then.

[Alan T]

Changing the rule to not allow trades until monday night basically means that you won't allow teams to trade players on Sunday night after the season flips but before the file goes out to try to save cap room to re-sign potential free agents. If this is indeed the intention, are you also planning on not doing any more post-trade files on other nights during the week to be consistant as well?

And for the record, I definitely did consider a few possible trade options for my team to trigger immediately following the FOOL Classic for this very reason, which would have been legal in the old rules but not the new rules.. which is why I know how this rule change would affect things (and also for the record, I had decided on not doing any deals of the kind and have a different plan for my salary cap issues, so this change does not directly affect me in case anyone wonders).

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

If this is indeed the intention, are you also planning on not doing any more post-trade files on other nights during the week to be consistent as well?

Yup.

[muns]

Before I post, I want to note that this isnt all about my wants or needs, cause Im gonna adapt and am gonna play with whatever guidelines are set forth here. Its also not an attack at DC on anyone else in this league but it feels like everyoffseason someone is bitching about something. It would be nice to get through one stinking season without this bullshit.... End rant, on to the matter at hand.

The more and more I look at this stuff, the more and more I realize that the so called issues that get brought up and talked about the most mean nothing on the big picture scale and ends up hurting the people that are most active in this league......

Who says that whats being talked about at all in this thread is bad for the league?

Changing the rule to not allow trades until monday night basically means that you won't allow teams to trade players on Sunday night after the season flips but before the file goes out to try to save cap room to re-sign potential free agents. If this is indeed the intention, are you also planning on not doing any more post-trade files on other nights during the week to be consistant as well?

So the teams that are active and want to do trades are getting penalized for what reason?? for being active?? For wanting to get deals done and going out and finding another team to get a deal done? I dont follow why restricting either matter is a good thing??? Everyone here could do it so why make the change??? Why regulate something that doesnt need regulated?

And for the record, I definitely did consider a few possible trade options for my team to trigger immediately following the FOOL Classic for this very reason, which would have been legal in the old rules but not the new rules.. which is why I know how this rule change would affect things (and also for the record, I had decided on not doing any deals of the kind and have a different plan for my salary cap issues, so this change does not directly affect me in case anyone wonders).

I dont see why that would be a bad thing if you chose to do so. You have put together the best run out of everybody and being able to do a deal right after the fool classic should be a right you should have. You out of anyone of us have earned that right to try to keep the max amout of your own guys as possible.... This new rule would prevent that and IMO hurts a team like a Valdosta.... He should be rewarded with the option to do so if he wants to.... Not have it taken away? and again for what????

I just have a hard time following some reasons guys have for things when no one has done anything mirroring anything bad or "cheating" Regulating just to regulate doesnt seem like fun league and it seems that we love to make a push towards that more and more after every season....

just my 2 cents

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by muns

Before I post, I want to note that this isnt all about my wants or needs, cause Im gonna adapt and am gonna play with whatever guidelines are set forth here. Its also not an attack at DC on anyone else in this league but it feels like everyoffseason someone is bitching about something. It would be nice to get through one stinking season without this bullshit.... End rant, on to the matter at hand.

The more and more I look at this stuff, the more and more I realize that the so called issues that get brought up and talked about the most mean nothing on the big picture scale and ends up hurting the people that are most active in this league......

Who says that whats being talked about at all in this thread is bad for the league?




So the teams that are active and want to do trades are getting penalized for what reason?? for being active?? For wanting to get deals done and going out and finding another team to get a deal done? I dont follow why restricting either matter is a good thing??? Everyone here could do it so why make the change??? Why regulate something that doesnt need regulated?



I dont see why that would be a bad thing if you chose to do so. You have put together the best run out of everybody and being able to do a deal right after the fool classic should be a right you should have. You out of anyone of us have earned that right to try to keep the max amout of your own guys as possible.... This new rule would prevent that and IMO hurts a team like a Valdosta.... He should be rewarded with the option to do so if he wants to.... Not have it taken away? and again for what????

I just have a hard time following some reasons guys have for things when no one has done anything mirroring anything bad or "cheating" Regulating just to regulate doesnt seem like fun league and it seems that we love to make a push towards that more and more after every season....

just my 2 cents

I am assuming you were directing most of that to DC and not me even though you quoted my post. Just to make sure I was clear with why I said that.. I wanted to make sure that the reason I posted it was not because I had some deal worked out that this would mess up.. That isn't the case here. I just wanted to make sure the ramifications of changing the rule was understood as it would affect things that I didn't feel were bad things.

I didn't really comment more on it simply because I'm trying to stay laid back about things and just adapt as rules are changed. I'm not super upset at this rule change, I just didn't really understand the need for it at all. The thing that bothered me the most though was it was a change without a vote and a change that was sudden to not allow teams to adapt which I have mentioned not liking in the past.

Like I said though, I'm trying to avoid criticizing every change or thought that others have, which is why I'm not hammering this a bunch. I guess more people disagree with me on this one and it doesn't affect anything I'm working on currently so not really worth it to me to try to argue this one to death is all. I just felt it was a mistake is all

[graygoose12]

I don't think this is a good rule change for the league. A team should have the option of trying to unload salary for the upcoming year in order to keep their young players. I guess I don't understand the reason for this change.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I am assuming you were directing most of that to DC and not me even though you quoted my post. Just to make sure I was clear with why I said that.. I wanted to make sure that the reason I posted it was not because I had some deal worked out that this would mess up.. That isn't the case here. I just wanted to make sure the ramifications of changing the rule was understood as it would affect things that I didn't feel were bad things.

I didn't really comment more on it simply because I'm trying to stay laid back about things and just adapt as rules are changed. I'm not super upset at this rule change, I just didn't really understand the need for it at all. The thing that bothered me the most though was it was a change without a vote and a change that was sudden to not allow teams to adapt which I have mentioned not liking in the past.

Like I said though, I'm trying to avoid criticizing every change or thought that others have, which is why I'm not hammering this a bunch. I guess more people disagree with me on this one and it doesn't affect anything I'm working on currently so not really worth it to me to try to argue this one to death is all. I just felt it was a mistake is all

I was directing it to the league, not just DC, I guess that comes across that way cause he runs the show, but that was never my intention.

I knew why you were posting that Alan, I just quoted you and used you as my example to to bring out my point

Im trying to stay laid back as well, but wanted to throw my 2 cents out there.
Ill change and adapt to whatever cause well i love the league and thats just what ill do

[Chief Rum]

I think the only thing I would like to see is no trades until after the FOOL Classic. None announced anyway. It just seems bad form. But that's probably a ME thing again.

I voted for the most far reaching option, but I am really fine with trading starting up right after the FOOL Classic.

[Cringer]

Oh crap, I lose internet for a day and things go to hell. This whole thing seems overblown to me.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Oh crap, I lose internet for a day and things go to hell. This whole thing seems overblown to me.

That will teach you to make trades!

[Cringer]

Your right, I probably won't even bother now.