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Old Yesterday, 06:20 AM   #1301
GrantDawg
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"NFL GMs care about competitive drive in college, but only for playoff games. Not for bowl games. Not if you had an injury earlier in the year. Not if you don't show up to the combine. And definitely not if your team played in the Spring."

There is a big difference between playoff games and meaningless bowl games, There is a big difference between quarterbacks and receivers in evaluations.

And I am going to reiterate that my argument has never been solely about the draft. The discussion has been will a large number of players start dropping out of the playoffs once they expand? I have said no. A few? Maybe, but very few. Because players want to win championships. Because players will not want to abandon their teams with meaningful games on the line. Because players will want the exposure of all eyes on them that playoffs will give. And finally because for the vast majority of players (even most considered a generational talent) it would be a a pretty big red flag that they lack a competitive drive.
Players don't play in bowls for business decision because they are meaningless. When games do have some meaning and players choose not to play, there is no way that doesn't become a factor in evaluation.

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Old Yesterday, 07:51 AM   #1302
dubb93
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In 1997 a NFL prospect for Michigan would play 11 games and then rose bowl and then they could get ready for the pros.

In 2024 a NFL prospect for Michigan would play 12 games, the B1G Championship, and then up to 4 playoff games depending on seeding. That’s 17 games vs. 12 two and a half decades ago. Eventually people are going to get hurt in these games and players are going to make business decisions is all I’m saying. At this point though I think the two sides can agree to disagree and we can see how it plays out over the next decade.
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Old Yesterday, 08:02 AM   #1303
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I definitely agree with the point that the season is just too long. It should not be close the NFL length for college players in a violent sport like football.
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Old Yesterday, 08:50 AM   #1304
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High School state finalists play 14 games. I agree 17 is a lot for college. 15 or 16 seems like the natural progression.
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Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM   #1305
JonInMiddleGA
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Originally Posted by Brian Swartz View Post
They're doing their job and making career decisions.

I wouldn't hire someone uninterested in competing -- with themselves and others -- to shovel horse manure.

They can make their decision, that's their right ... just as it's my right to hold them in contempt and wish nothing but misfortune upon them.
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Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM   #1306
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Let's say GA is in the playoff. If Bowers decided not to play because of his continuing string of injuries this year it wouldn't make a bit of difference to his draft stock. It would, though, probably make him a pariah at GA for the rest of his days and that will be a significant factor in these decisions.
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Old Yesterday, 11:19 AM   #1307
JonInMiddleGA
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It would, though, probably make him a pariah at GA for the rest of his days and that will be a significant factor in these decisions.

Less and less most likely, given the growing number of players who haven't just been part of one/two teams but three/four/five.
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Old Yesterday, 11:21 AM   #1308
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Here's the NCAA telling those who just want to stop having rules, to stop having student-athletes instead of paid employees to go do their things. Let's see how many have the guts to do it.

NCAA proposes rule to let schools, athletes enter NIL deals - ESPN
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Old Yesterday, 11:42 AM   #1309
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Originally Posted by dubb93 View Post
In 1997 a NFL prospect for Michigan would play 11 games and then rose bowl and then they could get ready for the pros.

In 2024 a NFL prospect for Michigan would play 12 games, the B1G Championship, and then up to 4 playoff games depending on seeding. Thatís 17 games vs. 12 two and a half decades ago. Eventually people are going to get hurt in these games and players are going to make business decisions is all Iím saying. At this point though I think the two sides can agree to disagree and we can see how it plays out over the next decade.

Those business decisions are already being made. As far as I can tell, the question at hand is the timing of those decisions. No NFL team would care if a Michigan player declared for the draft prior to this season even though they knew Michigan had a chance to win the title. A few teams may question a Michigan player who is injured and decides to shut it down even though there is a title winning possibility but for most it would not be a big deal. Same with players for other schools skipping those bowl games that won't result in a national championship.

However on the very specific case of a fully healthy player or groups of players that decided to play for this Michigan team back in January deciding to shut it down at this moment or even before the Big 10 championship in order to get ready for the NFL? Nah, that is not going to be look upon favorably by NFL teams. We will all know when the NFL stops caring about such things when the NFL changes its own rules that requires players be three years removed from high school to be draft eligible and allows players to be draft eligible before that. Why force a Caleb Williams to go through a junior season of punishment if you could just change your rule to get him in the league early?
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Old Yesterday, 12:45 PM   #1310
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
Let's say GA is in the playoff. If Bowers decided not to play because of his continuing string of injuries this year it wouldn't make a bit of difference to his draft stock. It would, though, probably make him a pariah at GA for the rest of his days and that will be a significant factor in these decisions.

He is not the best example. He has already come back ahead of schedule from surgery and had to miss the last game of the season due to soreness from that surgery after playing two games. He then would have played the SEC title game. If he decides he can't go at that point, if there is such a thing as a reasonable Dawgs fan, he would be seen as going out on on his shield. At least that is how I would look at it.
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Old Yesterday, 12:51 PM   #1311
GrantDawg
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
Let's say GA is in the playoff. If Bowers decided not to play because of his continuing string of injuries this year it wouldn't make a bit of difference to his draft stock. It would, though, probably make him a pariah at GA for the rest of his days and that will be a significant factor in these decisions.
No, because an injury is a legitimate reason not to play. Everybody saw what he did this weekend and how much pain it cost him. If they had won and he said he couldn't play again for fear of derailing his recovery, he would still be beloved for what he has already done.

If he was fully healthy, no injuries, and decided not to play then he would be killed. The problem with this hypothetical is he would never be Brock Bowers if he he had no drive to win.
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Old Yesterday, 01:25 PM   #1312
Honolulu_Blue
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Have there been a lot of players sitting out playoff games? I don't recall that being the case.

I have no problem with players sitting out bowl games. It's just an exhibition game. Every time they step out on the field, they are risking their bodies. In one play, their entire potential career could be terribly altered or completely ruined.

While I do really miss bowl games featuring the best players, I am not entitled to that.

I assume next year, with the expanded playoff, every bowl/playoff game will feature the best players from each team and should be pretty exciting. The other bowl games will be non-events, but they pretty much already are.

Then again, as noted above, I think it's pretty rough on these kids, if not brutal, to force them to play so many games in a season. For what? For the schools to get more TV money? For other kids' or adults' bragging rights? I am sure many are driven by the goal of possibly winning a national championship, and I expect most players on playoff teams to play, but I wouldn't hold it against them if they don't.
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Old Yesterday, 04:40 PM   #1313
dubb93
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Here's the NCAA telling those who just want to stop having rules, to stop having student-athletes instead of paid employees to go do their things. Let's see how many have the guts to do it.

NCAA proposes rule to let schools, athletes enter NIL deals - ESPN

Oof on that title 9 requirement. I think that will do a good job stopping anyone from saying yes. No offense to cheerleaders, but imagine Alabama paying their cheerleaders as much as their football team. Itís preposterous.
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Old Yesterday, 05:03 PM   #1314
sovereignstar v2
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I don't know. Have you seen Oregon's cheerleaders?
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Old Yesterday, 07:06 PM   #1315
JonInMiddleGA
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Oof on that title 9 requirement. I think that will do a good job stopping anyone from saying yes. No offense to cheerleaders, but imagine Alabama paying their cheerleaders as much as their football team. Itís preposterous.

Those details weren't in the link when I shared it, nor praised it.

That's, frankly, idiotic to the point of being an intentional poison pill.
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Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM   #1316
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At this point, I'm not sure FSU is going to be able to field a team for the Orange Bowl. I've seen 15ish guys hit the portal already, including Pat Payton who I guess is going to put himself out there to the highest bidder. Not sure how many DL we have left - I've seen 3 hit the portal tonight and that's before Verse or anyone else declared for the draft.

I'm all for players getting paid, but seeing guys play for 3 or 4 teams in 4 years and just mixing up rosters in a neverending game of musical chairs is just not fun.
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Old Yesterday, 08:44 PM   #1317
Atocep
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At this point, I'm not sure FSU is going to be able to field a team for the Orange Bowl. I've seen 15ish guys hit the portal already, including Pat Payton who I guess is going to put himself out there to the highest bidder. Not sure how many DL we have left - I've seen 3 hit the portal tonight and that's before Verse or anyone else declared for the draft.

I'm all for players getting paid, but seeing guys play for 3 or 4 teams in 4 years and just mixing up rosters in a neverending game of musical chairs is just not fun.

Players getting paid is fine, but there isn't a league anywhere that would be able to function long term if a player could leave at any point to the highest bidder, which is largely what we're seeing right now.

Imagine if Wemby shut himself down right now so that he could sign with the Lakers this upcoming offseason. Imagine if after this offseason Stroud was free to sign with the Giants. Or Gunnar Henderson decided to sign with the Yankees today.
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Old Yesterday, 10:28 PM   #1318
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That's Capitalism for you!

(and it's funny that COLLEGE football is the most capitalistic sport around )
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Old Yesterday, 11:17 PM   #1319
JonInMiddleGA
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Not sure how many DL we have left - I've seen 3 hit the portal tonight and that's before Verse or anyone else declared for the draft.

I'm not sure FSU and Miami could combine their rosters and have enough DL at this point.
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Old Yesterday, 11:18 PM   #1320
JonInMiddleGA
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And on the list of things that are simply broken about college football at this point ...

Tyler Shough, 24, leaves Texas Tech, transfers to Louisville - ESPN

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Shough, 24, will be a seventh-year senior who turns 25 next September and has played at both Oregon and Texas Tech since starting his college career in 2018.

His SEVENTH fucking season across three teams? C'mon.
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Old Yesterday, 11:37 PM   #1321
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With regard to Florida State's omission from the playoff, it's not surprising to see the deluge of conspiracy theories running rampant across message boards and social media right now.

I don't think there was any conspiracy. The committee watched, along with millions of people, the train wreck that was the ACC championship game against a slightly above average Louisville team. Tied 3-3 in the 3rd quarter, FSU went on to squeak out a narrow win. FSU completed 8 out of 21 passes for 51 yards in that game. Was it a courageous, gutsy win? Of course it was.

The problem is not so much the injury to Travis, but it is apparent that FSU does not have a quality backup quarterback. Right now, FSU has half a team. An elite defense, but they don't even have a serviceable backup QB, much less a Jalen Hurts to come off the bench when Tua got injured. If you think they struggled against a pedestrian Louisville team, they might not even score without Travis against Michigan, Texas or Alabama.

It was the perfect storm, when Alabama won the SEC championship by beating a team that had not lost and been ranked #1 for two years. The way Texas annihilated Oklahoma State in the Big 12 championship also painted a stark contrast. There were four slots available for five conference champions, and the committee followed their protocol and selected the four best teams. Not the four "most deserving" teams, which contrary to popular belief is not in the guidelines.
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Old Yesterday, 11:41 PM   #1322
JonInMiddleGA
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The problem is not so much the injury to Travis, but it is apparent that FSU does not have a quality backup quarterback.

To be just a little fair, they did have to resort to their #3 for the ACC title game. The #2 may not be a lot better, but he is at least capable of being a 50% passer
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Old Today, 12:02 AM   #1323
Brian Swartz
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Well here's the thing; 'most deserving' is not in the guidelines as such, but championships, SOS, and so on being in there mean that yeah, it really is there.

If it was purely who is the best team at this moment in time, these evaluations would look a lot different. The fact that it's a confusing mix - and under the structure of college football can't reasonably be anything other than that - is a very useful controversy engine.
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Old Today, 12:16 AM   #1324
Vegas Vic
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Well here's the thing; 'most deserving' is not in the guidelines as such, but championships, SOS, and so on being in there mean that yeah, it really is there.

If it was purely who is the best team at this moment in time, these evaluations would look a lot different. The fact that it's a confusing mix - and under the structure of college football can't reasonably be anything other than that - is a very useful controversy engine.

I agree. One more thing. If the committee had ranked Georgia 5th and Florida State 6th there might actually be less controversy, although it would still be substantial. Boo Corrigan also misspoke after Travis went down in that game against the FCS cupcake by saying that the committee didn't factor in injuries to key players into their evaluations. If he had rightfully said that it is one of the guidelines they consider earlier on instead of on selection Sunday, there would have been less controversy also.
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