Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Mark Munoz is hurt and can't fight Sonnen on the Fox card, so it'll be Sonnen vs Bisping instead.

That makes for a much better lead up to the card than Munoz. Although I like Munoz and all, a smack talk fest between Bisping and Sonnen could be epic. Especially with only 11 days til the fight.

[PilotMan]

Great fights on FOX tonight. Very good promo's, and fights, the fact that all 3 fights went the distance could be better than 3 short finishes with a lot of talking. Plus with 2 title shots on the line it was good. No surprises in the fights, but the whole thing went off well.

[DaddyTorgo]

Thought they were all good fights too - although Maia/Wideman was a sloppy mess by the end.

[thesloppy]

Really? I was pretty disappointed with that card, top to bottom.

[PilotMan]

What was exactly disappointing about the 3 main fights? I didn't see any of the undercard, so I can't speak to that.

Stylistically, you had 5 of the 6 fighters were grapplers. Guys who are very difficult to take off their feet, submit, and generally provide the base that makes them top contenders.

You had 2 fights that had title implications that easily could have been the co-main even at any PPV for free.

All three fights were very close, with the exception of the main event, where Rashad won every round, but it was close.

Was it because there weren't any big knockouts, or blood, or guys in major submission chances? I could see that, but to me you don't need that to make a good fight.

Weidman/Maia was very close on the feet, and Weidman showed great takedowns and solid top control over a guy who is supremely dangerous on the ground. Standing he controlled a lot of the action from the center of the cage. Both guys were completely gassed by the end of the second round but they both came out and put on a really good fight in the 3rd.

Sonnen/Bisping didn't have enough lead up to be the fight that it could have been. It easily could have been the main event on any other non-PPV card, and it would have been a big draw. There just wasn't enough sell time. Bisping did a great job in the first two rounds of pressing Sonnen. He wasn't afraid of getting knocked out, and nailed Sonnen with some solid shots. Sonnen did enough in the first round with his takedowns and even though he lost the second round, he came back and dominated the third to take the fight. It could have gone either way up until then.

Phil Davis is a stud of a wrestler, but he hasn't developed his standup to be a real threat at the upper levels of the UFC. Like Lesnar, if he would have fought 8 or 9 years ago, he would have become a legend of the sport. He will be at this level for a long time, but he still needs work. Rashad looked really good. He didn't move around as much as I thought he would but he was crazy fast. He flat out stuffed Davis when he shot, and he shot fast. His boxing was clearly superior, and no surprise when it won him the fight.

We saw a lot of very evenly matched guys with very little separating them, fighting at the upper levels of MMA. Over the last couple of years, MMA has become much more even, and guys are learning what not to do to lose, and what they must to to win. Guys like Greg Jackson and others have really brought a strategy that has spread. It's become much more technical and the margins have dropped between fighters.

The time has passed for a lot of the big names like Lesnar, Rampage, Wanderlei, Penn and Mir and it's now time for guys who are very young and much more complete stars to rise up. We have already seen it with Jones, but Gustafsson is right behind him. We see it with Cain, who I think will beat JDS in a rematch. To a lesser extent a guy like Condit, who was the WEC champion and a very young age. He is dangerous everywhere, and even though he isn't that young anymore, he was ahead of the game. GSP was probably the genesis for most fighters like this. His style and strategy have made him a superstar. Each weight class will soon be bristling with guys like that, and if they can't, they won't be there.

It's going to continue to change the sport. There will be a lot less finishes, and a lot of very close fights. It is going to be hard for any fighter to be as dominant as we have seen with Silva and GSP. It may not be here yet, but it is the change that is coming.

[Suicane75]

Phil Davis is slower than my metabolism.

[PilotMan]

Outside of Machida, Evans might be the fastest guy at 205. If Silva ever went to 205, which he has stated that he won't, he would clearly be right in that mix as well.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Was it because there weren't any big knockouts, or blood, or guys in major submission chances? I could see that, but to me you don't need that to make a good fight.

Pretty much. There wasn't so much any big knockouts or major submission chances, as there was even a knockdown or any realistic submission chances, was there? I guess it was just the MMA equivalent of three defensive battles, and it didn't do much for me. It appeared that all 6 of those dudes seemed to be fighting not to lose, rather than looking to win (other than maybe Chael for a round), and most of them looked disappointed after the fights as well...probably at least partially a result of all the matchups switching around. It certainly wasn't a truly bad card, it just seemed disappointing.

[molson]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Was it because there weren't any big knockouts, or blood, or guys in major submission chances? I could see that, but to me you don't need that to make a good fight.

Ya, that, and there was no really otherwise exciting moments, I don't think there was a single time on the main show that Rogan and Goldberg raised their voice. That's kind of an inexact, but telling measure of any sporting event I think. I found Evans taking apart Davis interesting, but not exciting.

The prelims were a different story. A lot of fun stuff went on there (and ya, a lot of that is simple enough as the fact that there were KOs and submissions there, but it's a casual fan perspective.)

[PilotMan]

I'll post it here instead of the Netflix thread because there might be more interested people.

Just watched Jens Pulver's documentary called Driven on the instant player. It follows him around before his last fight in the WEC. The movie is good, even though it gets really slow sometimes. His story though is brutal. His healing is still a work in progress and it shows right there on the screen. He is down to earth but lost. Depressed but yet family oriented. He is searching for some direction in his life post fighting. Which doesn't look like it'll happen because as he says, "We live paycheck to paycheck."

It's certainly worth having on while you fold socks. It'll stick with you too.

[dunkem]

I think Dana White should make it a standard bonus to pay a fighter if he wins by KO/TKO/submission.

He has submission/fight of the night, but if you pay them less in "base" pay and a good amount for finishing, maybe they won't be satisfied with the decision. In other words, you just win by decision, you go home with a low/mediocre paycheck. You win by finishing, you get an above average paycheck.

I thought the three fights were evenly matched and weren't "bad" (definitely bad for the national tv audience though). The thing is, I bet if you told Chael or Evans they'd get $70,000 vs. $30,000 (I don't know how much they really get paid), they'd ramp it up a notch to finish instead of riding out the decision.

One other addition, since the American public seems to like standup so much, UFC should have an offshoot for K-1 kickboxing in a cage to satisfy the less MMA educated public. Almost like a middle ground between boxing and MMA.

[PilotMan]

Heading out to catch the fights soon, so I won't be around, but I'm really looking forward to the ME tonight. I hate Diaz, but respect his ability, I love Condit. Always love some Roy Nelson, but Werdum could be real trouble since Roy's ground game is typically solid, especially since he came in even lighter for the 3rd straight fight.

Koscheck fights are always entertaining, and the Barao/Jorgensen fight could be really exciting. I'm sure I'll have something to say about it tomorrow.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm sitting here bored at home...maybe I should just order the card.

[PilotMan]

It shouldn't be any surprise that a strategist like Jackson had a stellar gameplan in place for the main event. Condit did a great job being faster, setting the tone with leg kicks and moving very well. It was great seeing Diaz being the one frustrated. I don't think that there should be any controversy. The numbers speak for themselves. Condit was more accurate and landed more and more power shots. Even though he wasn't the aggressor being the aggressor doesn't win fights.

I loves me some Big Country and his loss was expected, but I was more impressed with Werdum's Muay Thai skills. His standup looked good, and although he didn't really hurt Roy (nobody can put him away) he really did a whole shitload of damage. It's a good fight to put Werdum into the mix.

Ugh, the rest of the fights didn't do a whole lot to set themselves apart. Barao has a great skill set, and Jorgensen is a tough dude. While the fight was entertaining neither fighter is all that intriguing.

Koscheck's fight was just boring. Pierce was just not good enough, but Koscheck just isn't good enough to be a top contender either.

Dustin Porier should have been on the main card. He did a great job with a beautiful submission. His ground game is smooth. I had never seen a fight finished with an armbar in the mounted triangle position.

If anyone got to see the first fight with Stephen Thompson you got to see a great lead leg roundhouse. I had never heard of this guy, but I guess he is undefeated in MMA, Kickboxing and Karate matches. Makes an interesting story to say the least. His standup is going to need tweaking with more in and out like Machida or he is going to end up getting taken down and tapped out too fast. He pretty must stood still for much of the fight. A grappler would really give him a test.

So that was it. Like I said last week, we continue to see a progression in MMA toward more decisions, where strategy continues to separate fighters but where casual fans have trouble getting into the fights.Fighter skill sets continue to merge even closer, and the fights become more tightly contested, and not necessarily in a way that is conductive toward exciting fights.

[PilotMan]

Forcing Condit to be forced to contemplate a rematch because some people wanted Diaz to fight GSP is a real slap in the face. Condit won the fight, it was tight, but unanimous. There was no doubt about who won the fight.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Forcing Condit to be forced to contemplate a rematch because some people wanted Diaz to fight GSP is a real slap in the face. Condit won the fight, it was tight, but unanimous. There was no doubt about who won the fight.

I thought Diaz deserved the win, albeit a close one. I was surprised it was unanimous. So were the two friends I went to see it with.

We also thought Pierce got jobbed.

[bhlloy]

I thought Condit did enough to win technically, but let's face it either one of those guys is going to get destroyed by GSP. Neither guy came close to doing any serious damage. Probably not a bad thing that Nick isn't going to face a pissed off GSP if he fights like that.

Overall, a very disappointing card. Glad I caught it at a bar rather than shelling out for it at home. One good thing to come out of it was how impressive Werdum looked and against most other guys in MMA he'd have scored a clean KO in the first.

[Carman Bulldog]

I had Condit in 1,3, and 4 and Diaz in 2 and 5 for a 48-47 but that doesn't match up with the judges rounds. Honestly I thought 1,2, and 5 were toss ups with Condit clearly winning 3 and 4. Surprised that two judges gave Diaz the third, including the 49-46 judge.

[DeToxRox]

Dana says Condit vs Diaz II is on.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Dana says Condit vs Diaz II is on.

I don't have to reiterate how I feel about this. Hopefully they put it free on TV in August.

[SirFozzie]

so what does everyone think about the "Live Fight" season of the Ultimate Fighter where they stretch out the time in the house to provide at least one live fight for the show each week?

[DeToxRox]

Gracie is saying the rematch is off now.

[DeToxRox]

Front Row Brian says Nick got popped for weed again.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Front Row Brian says Nick got popped for weed again.

Karma if that's what happened.

[PilotMan]

[sovereignstar v2]

Went from like a 9 to a 6 in my book. Terrible spread, but that's to be expected at this point.

[thesloppy]

Yeah, what the hell did they do to her face? It looks like they shrunk her features and then put them back in.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Yeah, what the hell did they do to her face? It looks like they shrunk her features and then put them back in.

The makeup is what changed. She still looks hot but not in the way that she does in the cage. Too bad, Arianny's shoot was fantastic.

[DeToxRox]

Jake Ellenberger will be the Welterweight Champion in 2013.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Doesn't look that different to me, mostly lighting, makeup, and hair, at least to my eye.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Jake Ellenberger will be the Welterweight Champion in 2013.

Rory MacDonald will give him a run for his money and at 22 is four years younger.

[Carman Bulldog]

Wow, not a single post on UFC 144? Outside of the dull Rampage v. Bader fight, I thought it was a pretty good card.

*I didn't think there was any controversy with the scoring on the final fight. While Edgar may have slightly edged out Round 1 and likely won round 5, I thought Bendo clearly won 2-4.

*I'm not that hyped for an immediate rematch. Nor do I think Anthony Pettis has done enough to earn a rematch either. I'd love to see Bendo take on Gilbert Melendez. As for Edgar...

*Edgar v. Aldo needs to happen. Hatsu Hioki was decent but Edgar presents a much better matchup.

*Shields needs to move back up to 185. He hasn't looked very good in his 4 fights at 170 in the UFC.

[DeToxRox]

Amazing fight, even more amazing blunder

SYDNEY – After initially declared a split-decision win for Demetrious Johnson and then a majority-decision victory for the fighter, Johnson's UFC on FX 2 bout with Ian McCall actually turned out to be a majority draw.

The Combat Sports Authority of New South Wales confirmed after UFC on FX 2 that a tabulation error resulted in the incorrect scores.

The mistake was caught too late for the flyweight-tournament fight to go to what would have been a sudden-victory fourth round.

The tourney fight was part of the event's FX-televised main card at Sydney's Allphone Arena. The event took place Saturday afternoon in Australia and aired in the U.S. on Friday night due to the time difference.

Because of the error, the fight – which initially was showered in boos by fans who thought McCall had won – will happen again. Currently, the rematch is tentatively slated for April, though clearly frustrated UFC president Dana White said no exact date is set.

White, though, confirmed that both competitors will get their win bonuses.

Until it's Johnson-McCall happens again, the winner of the tourney's other semifinal fight, Joseph Benavidez (who knocked out Yasuhiro Urushitani), will wait on the sidelines. He'll meet the Johnson-McCall winner for the UFC's first-ever flyweight championship.

Initially, Johnson was declared the winner via 28-29, 29-28 and 29-28 scores. Later, Johnson was declared the majority-decision victor via 29-28, 29-29 and 29-28 scores. However, according to a commission official, one judge had scored the final round 10-8, which was overlooked during tabulations. So the final scores were 28-28, 29-29, 29-28 (Johnson got the 29-28 score).

Had the error been caught in time, Johnson and McCall would have fought an immediate fourth round to determine a winner.

[DaddyTorgo]

Damn - I dunno how Tate got out of that first armbar, but I think Rousy just broke her arm on the second one.

That was a hell of a fight.

Not even a hell of a women's fight...a hell of a fight period.

[PilotMan]

It was certainly entertaining. I can't say I'm a big Rousey fan, but she's got the look, the mouth and the pedigree to make Carano type money in MMA. Tate must have worked her flexibility like crazy because that first one look hyperextended at the very least. Second was just plain nasty. The ref could have stopped it, but I'm glad he made her tap to finish it. Rousy's core and upper body and grip is so damn strong I don't see many being able to stop that kind of specialization in women's mma.

Couple of other good fights on the show as well. That guy that Scott Smith fought was pretty damn entertaining too. Not too many back suplexes in MMA.

[PilotMan]

[PilotMan]

If you really, really, really want to see just how the fight ended.

Spoiler

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Damn - I dunno how Tate got out of that first armbar, but I think Rousy just broke her arm on the second one.

Just got done watching it, that was just plain sick. I haven't been able to lift for over 2 weeks now from an armbar that was a fraction that deep. I have no idea how she did not tap sooner, there is major damage to her elbow for sure and she said it was "a little sore" after the fight, WTF!

Rousy is seriously skilled on the ground and Tate is tough as hell to last as long as she did with that arm fully locked out, great fight!

Can't wait until Cyborg gets back from suspension, would love to see Rousy go back up a weight class and fight her.

[SirFozzie]

Two bad notes: Strikeforce let a guy with neo-nazi SS and Heil Hitler tattoos fight.

Oh, and the guy's a registered sex offender too.

Oh, and if I met Miss Rousey in a dark alley I would pray.. and run. Scary Scary FIGHTER.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Two bad notes: Strikeforce let a guy with neo-nazi SS and Heil Hitler tattoos fight.

Oh, and the guy's a registered sex offender too.

Oh, and if I met Miss Rousey in a dark alley I would pray.. and run. Scary Scary FIGHTER.

Who was that? I didn't notice (I guess that's a good thing for Strikeforce).

[SirFozzie]

Brandon Saling.

Dude had the ss lightning bolts and 88 (code for heil Hitler) on his shoulder, faced charges of taping a child under 13 in 2004, pleaded guilty to gross sexual imposition. (Which is why hes on the sex offender list/) and served 40 days in jail for domestic violence in 2008.

He was a last minute replacement, but still.. background check?


Ohio Athletic Commission investigating Strikeforce’s Brandon Saling | Cagewriter - Yahoo! Sports

[PilotMan]

Can't complain that he got knocked out!

[JonInMiddleGA]

I see where Dana has already started washing his hands of the Showtime Strikeforce product.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/27714/dana...ixed-input.mma

White was so excited, he was actually supposed to attend the event in Columbus, Ohio, rather than the previous night's "UFC on FX 2: Alves vs. Kampmann" card in Australia.

But at the last minute, things changed. According to White, new Showtime boss Stephen Espinoza decided maybe not all of the changes the UFC boss proposed would find their way into the event.

And, White said, he didn't have the courtesy to even make a direct call, instead preferring contact with fellow Zuffa exec Pete Dropick.

"I almost missed the first UFC fight in 11 years, and then I get the phone call from Pete Dropick when I'm in Japan," White said. "'Yeah, listen, they're not going to change pretty much any of the stuff you wanted.' So I said, '[Expletive] them.'

"You flew out to Las Vegas and wasted my time. Go talk your boxing [expletive] to somebody else."

White declined to specifically address what changes were proposed and/or nixed beyond "a few minor tweaks that we thought would make the live show better."

However, he did make it clear he thinks Showtime is making a very poor decision.

"These guys are letting a D-level producer run their organization, and that's exactly what I told Espinoza," White said. "You want to let a D-level producer run your organization? Go for it brother. Knock yourself out. I've got [expletive] to do. I've got another job."

What that means for the future of Strikeforce remains to be seen. In the meantime, White said he will abide by the terms of the current deal and do his best to please MMA fan. He just wishes he could have done a little more.

"The positive thing is we own Strikeforce," White said. "Strikeforce is never going to suck. We own it. The fights are going to be great. There's going to be a better in-house show and all that stuff.

"I'm going to do what I'm contractually obligated to do. I'm contractually obligated to Showtime to do certain things, and I'm going to do them."

[BYU 14]

Not surprised Jon. I thought Dana would try and distance himself ASAP. He can't be pleased with the shitstorm the Saling issue is going to bring, just as he is making his biggest push yet to get UFC more mainstream.

[DaddyTorgo]

I wonder what the "minor changes" were?

[Suicane75]

Maybe holding the camera straight. I was getting frigging sea sick trying to watch that show last night, half the time it seemed the camera was tilted. It was like when the Enterprise would get hit and they'd all slide from one side to the other.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Not surprised Jon. I thought Dana would try and distance himself ASAP. He can't be pleased with the shitstorm the Saling issue is going to bring, just as he is making his biggest push yet to get UFC more mainstream.

It sounds like the issue isn't with Strikeforce or the fighters themselves. Zuffa still has all that control. So the decision to allow Saling didn't have anything to do with Showtime. His issue appears to deal directly with Showtime itself and the product that they produce for Strikeforce.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

It sounds like the issue isn't with Strikeforce or the fighters themselves. Zuffa still has all that control. So the decision to allow Saling didn't have anything to do with Showtime. His issue appears to deal directly with Showtime itself and the product that they produce for Strikeforce.

Good point, I pretty much glossed over that. Though Dana bringing up his issues with showtime is a good way to deflect

Likw you said Zuffa has final control, but it is likely Dana will mae someone affliated with Strikeforce the scapegoat and hang them out on the Saling issue.

[PilotMan]

This is the funniest thing I've read all day, re: Bob Sapp as a tomato can:

I actually use an old poster of Bob Sapp when I'm in need of a mild exfoliant. So gentle against my skin.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Maybe holding the camera straight.

Or not having 4 dudes doing color commentary. Strikeforce is like the Spinal Tap of MMA.