05-22-2012, 02:20 PM | #101 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Quote:
In all seriousness, have you shopped around for a better deal? Youre paying a LOT for cable you claim to not be using for anything other than live sports. If youre paying that much for cable tv without internet youre getting ripped off. |
|
05-22-2012, 02:20 PM | #102 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
|
05-22-2012, 02:21 PM | #103 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
|
Quote:
But there are other places to get food. Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, Itunes, etc.
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
|
05-22-2012, 02:21 PM | #104 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
|
05-22-2012, 02:23 PM | #105 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
|
Quote:
So you're just fine getting the stuff I work hard on, spending overtime and the like, with no compensation back to me? You're right, you'll have a very hard time making me believe you're not stealing from me, since you feel entitled to enjoy the fruits of my labors for absolutely nothing. I get the "it's too expensive" and "I hate the company" lines, but the easy answer is: don't consume it at all. You're not entitled to it no matter what you think.
__________________
-- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities |
|
05-22-2012, 02:23 PM | #106 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Itd be like me trying to go see the Avengers again for free because I already paid once. Or trying to get a new Mazda for free because I bought one years ago. Both things Id love but thats just not how things work.
Last edited by chadritt : 05-22-2012 at 02:24 PM. |
05-22-2012, 02:24 PM | #107 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NYC
|
|
05-22-2012, 02:25 PM | #108 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
Quote:
DVR rental is $12 a month. What exactly is the difference between DVRing something to watch later or downloading it to watch later? Other than the desire for other people to control where or when I watch something. And don't say I'm shorting the cable company. If I bought one at a store would I still be stealing from the cable company? |
|
05-22-2012, 02:26 PM | #109 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
The older I get the more insane I think it is that a starving poor person who steals a loaf of bread will get prosecuted but we have large swathes of people who manage to justify stealing something that is just for their entertainment. I like the Subway reference, it's a good one.
|
05-22-2012, 02:27 PM | #110 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Quote:
How about this: Youre shorting ME and my friends and coworkers. Our jobs depend on people watching shows legally, either live or through DVR. If everyone watches our shows illegally were out of work. My current job got me healthcare by the way, i would like it to get a 2nd season so i can keep that. Last edited by chadritt : 05-22-2012 at 02:29 PM. |
|
05-22-2012, 02:28 PM | #111 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
Quote:
Other than the fact that one is stealing and one isn't you mean? What's the difference between taking something and paying for something? If we have trouble with that basic concept I don't think there is much hope for this discussion |
|
05-22-2012, 02:31 PM | #112 | ||
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
Quote:
This is a fair point. But my rationale again is this, if I'm paying for cable, why on earth should I go to ITunes and pay for last nights episode of Mad Men. Does the fact that I delete it when I'm done make it better? What if I had a VCR or a DVR, would it be ok to keep it then? Quote:
Same question. |
||
05-22-2012, 02:32 PM | #113 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
|
Quote:
Because advertisers pay for their ads to be watched during a broadcast, which happens if you watch it live or watch it on DVR. If you watch it during one of the other legal methods I pointed out above, then they pay for that as well. In fact, writers recently initiated a massive strike so they could get portions of revenue from ads and/or purchases of online content. I'm sure they're glad to know that you don't really care whether they receive that or not because it's not convenient for you.
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
|
05-22-2012, 02:36 PM | #114 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
Quote:
What compensation would you get if you produced a show that aired on ABC and I watched it via antenna? What is the trickle down? I'm assuming you got paid to do your job. If I pay a cable bill, and your show is available, is it my job or my responsibility to inform your bosses that I watched it and how? |
|
05-22-2012, 02:36 PM | #115 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Quote:
This.....all of this. If youre not watching it through one of the intended distribution methods then youre not helping anyone but yourself, in fact an argument could be made youre hurting someone. |
|
05-22-2012, 02:36 PM | #116 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
If you had your own "moral piracy code" where you only pirate things you've had legal access to in the past, I'd say that's definitely a lot more restrained than a lot of other people's own "codes", but you've also said you pirate 50 to 60 movies a year, which seems like a ton when there's so many cheap options now. Isn't the fact that Mad Men shows up on your cable somewhere really just a coincidence? You wouldn't have a problem downloading it even if it was on a premium channel you didn't get. Last edited by molson : 05-22-2012 at 02:38 PM. |
|
05-22-2012, 02:38 PM | #117 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Quote:
There are systems in place to track who watches shows and how, as long as they watch them legally. I may not think theyre all very effective methods and i may think theyre using methods other than what theyre telling people about but thats a whole different discussion and its pretty irrelevant here. If you pay your cable bill and watch my show then they know and I can get rewarded by keeping my job. |
|
05-22-2012, 02:38 PM | #118 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
What if I close my eyes during commercials? Am I breaking the law? Was it illegal to use a VCR? Surely everyone here has taped a show and fast forwarded through commercials. Did you break the law?
|
05-22-2012, 02:39 PM | #119 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Manchester, CT
|
I'm pretty sure Suicane is not stealing anything. He might be infringing on copyrights, but stop comparing it to stealng a physical object.
Further, if Suicane watches something he was not authorized to do so, it is not taking money out of anybody's pocket if he wasn't going to pay for it in the first place. What he is doing is wrong and illegal, but more on the level of smoking a joint and not stealing a BMW.
__________________
81-78 Cincinnati basketball writer P. Daugherty, "Connor Barwin playing several minutes against Syracuse is like kids with slingshots taking down Caesar's legions." |
05-22-2012, 02:40 PM | #120 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Quote:
Actually the whole concept of the VCR went before the supreme court. It was determined that it was legal and in fact beneficial to both the viewing public and the people making the shows because they could watch whenever they wanted and still were seeing the advertisements, even in fast forward. Its the same as a DVR. Seriously though, it costs you $12 a month to make all of this a moot point. its easier on you and the shows get their money. everyone wins and nobody will ever get sued for it. Last edited by chadritt : 05-22-2012 at 02:44 PM. |
|
05-22-2012, 02:43 PM | #121 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
|
Quote:
Nope, but that's all accounted for when advertisers pay for ads. Viewers that watch via time shifted methods do not count as much as viewers that watch live, but they do count and advertisers pay for them.
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
|
05-22-2012, 02:44 PM | #122 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
So if I see the Kraft logo in the blurry lines of a fast forward it's ok, but if I don't see it all I'm costing you money. That's bullshit. I know it's bullshit, you know it's bullshit. It's all so stupid. Again, my money is going somewhere, don't be pissed at me because you aren't getting what you think you deserve out of it.
|
05-22-2012, 02:45 PM | #123 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
Dude, if you want to circumvent the entire business model for an industry feel free....just dont tell me it doesnt mean anything and that youre not part of the problem.
|
05-22-2012, 02:47 PM | #124 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Here
|
For TV shows, I either use TiVo or a Windows Media Center. Tivo for cable, WMC for 95% of the network shows.
I then run an automated scan to cut commercials, convert it to a smaller size, and throw it on my NAS. 90% of the time it works flawlessly and I never see commercials. I know I count as DVR for the things I record on Tivo (even though I never see commercials), but am I counted as DVR for things I record on Windows? I don't believe they're relaying back what I record. And since I cut out commercials, I can't be considered a person who is putting money back into the hands of the entertainment industry in this instance. The only show I watch Live (aside from sports) is How I Met Your Mother. Every other time I watch TV randomly, I never sit through commercials, I just flip it to something else. |
05-22-2012, 02:47 PM | #125 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
What about the 50 or 60 movies you download a year? Do you include those in your cable bill too? That $100/month cable deal is starting to look like a bargain! |
|
05-22-2012, 02:48 PM | #126 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
Quote:
Then maybe they need to change the way they do things. Is it required of me to watch the advertisements in my "contract" with the cable company? Is it ok if I simply don't watch them live but not ok if I don't watch because I downloaded a show and they weren't there at all? |
|
05-22-2012, 02:50 PM | #127 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
They did change the way they do things - there's DVR technology, Hulu plus, Netflix and Amazon instant streaming, i-tunes, cable and satellite stuff on demand. Last edited by molson : 05-22-2012 at 02:51 PM. |
|
05-22-2012, 02:51 PM | #128 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
Quote:
$5 for 50 movies a year (and that is a high guess) is $250. Do I think the cable company gets WAYYYY more out of me than that for shit I'll never use, yes. And maybe this does matter, maybe it doesn't. But I don't keep shit so I equate it more to renting than to buying. Again, these are my specific reasonings. |
|
05-22-2012, 02:51 PM | #129 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
|
05-22-2012, 02:52 PM | #130 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
How would you prefer they figure things out? how can they POSSIBLY track whos downloading shows illegally? They cant just say "this many people pay for cable" because theres no way of knowing what show theyre watching and splitting up the money accordingly. Advertisers are the backbone of the industry
|
05-22-2012, 02:52 PM | #131 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
|
Quote:
Your argument seems to be that your money is going to the cable company, so it doesn't matter that the network or show isn't getting anything. That's a ridiculous argument. It's like buying bread, ham, and cheese and then stealing from Subway because it's too inconvenient for you to make it yourself.
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
|
05-22-2012, 02:54 PM | #132 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NYC
|
Unfortunately, you lose the benefit of the doubt once you go and download things that you in no way were paying for. With a lot of things, there is certainly some sort of fine line when it comes to being moral, justifiable, warranted, whatever word you want to use. But downloading a movie over choosing to pay $5 for it kills the rest of your arguments.
|
05-22-2012, 02:57 PM | #133 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Here
|
Should it really matter if Suicane steals TV shows since he isnt likely a Nielsen family?
|
05-22-2012, 02:58 PM | #134 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
|
Quote:
But if you don't watch it on your cable system, then the people who make movies receive less money for TV rights. And they receive less money for the rights to the many other legal formats we've mentioned since you're bypassing all of those as well. So you are stealing from them.
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
|
05-22-2012, 03:00 PM | #135 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
|
Quote:
I still say yes, because if he watched it via one of the other methods, then they'd still receive money even if he wasn't a Nielsen family.
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
|
05-22-2012, 03:01 PM | #136 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
Quote:
You're right. You're absolutely right. In my mind I say to myself, I'm being forced to overpay for one thing, and I'm evening it out somewhere else. Quite frankly if I pay Ed Snider $500 more a year than he deserves to get from me and Sony studios $50 less, then fuck em. I'm ok with it and I won't lose a minutes sleep. |
|
05-22-2012, 03:03 PM | #137 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
|
Quote:
If you want to compare it to what's actually being discussed, you found Subway's recipe and used it to make a Sweet Onion Chicken Teriyaki yourself at home. Last edited by mckerney : 05-22-2012 at 03:03 PM. |
|
05-22-2012, 03:07 PM | #138 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Satellite of Love
|
|
05-22-2012, 03:08 PM | #139 | ||
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Amarillo, TX
|
Quote:
"...and that's why Subway started putting dark tint on the sneeze shield, Billy." Quote:
"...and that's how we know Suicane isn't stealing porn, Billy." Last edited by Shkspr : 05-22-2012 at 03:09 PM. |
||
05-22-2012, 03:09 PM | #140 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
Gosh I love a lively debate.
|
05-22-2012, 03:14 PM | #141 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
|
Ugh. Reading this depresses me.
__________________
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? |
05-22-2012, 03:14 PM | #142 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
I think this actually happened on Portlandia (available on Netflix streaming, BTW). Last edited by molson : 05-22-2012 at 03:15 PM. |
|
05-22-2012, 03:14 PM | #143 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Satellite of Love
|
If you want to compare this to something involving a physical location, it'd be like him taking a laptop and scanner into a Barnes and Noble, scanning in all of the books he wants to read and then going home.
And then his rationale would be "Well, they'd let me read them there, so it's fine if I copy them and read them at home." or "I over pay for my cable bill." |
05-22-2012, 03:18 PM | #144 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
Except it's not like that at all.
Edit: At what point in your scenario did I actually pay for anything? Last edited by Suicane75 : 05-22-2012 at 03:19 PM. |
05-22-2012, 03:18 PM | #145 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
|
Quote:
Let's not gloss over why this went to the Supreme Court. The VCR was killing the movie and television industries. No one was going to watch movies because they could just copy them to watch at home and give to their friends, everyone would record TV and skip through the ads. People who worked on TV and movies would lose their jobs or miss out on bonuses because sales would fall short, advertisers would leave TV because no one would watch their ads, and the entire industry would collapse. |
|
05-22-2012, 03:19 PM | #146 |
Retired
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fantasyland
|
*rant incoming*
The older I get, the more I don't fucking care anymore. Both sides are fucked in the head. One side will jump through hoops to come up with any justification necessary to download stuff. The ass goblins who love piracy generally have the logical skills of a banana and the same old tired reasons just keep getting more exhausted. I don't care if you think you paid for it, couldn't afford it, are sticking it to the man or anything else. Stop justifying it. Man up to the bar, drink your Colon Blow and say "I'm a cheap fucking asshole who loves to wallow in the stink-pit of moral relativism when it suits me and my pocketbook." Fucking man up and have the goddamn balls to admit it. The other side is run by a bunch of assbags who want to fine Grandma $50,000 for downloading an episode of Golden Girls but don't want the consumer to get any rights to content they already paid for (see: DRM, software "licensing", trying to stop used console game sales, etc.). There's a special level in hell reserved for these fucking pricks. They have no problem denying everyone else their money (artists, licenses, etc.). They have no problem illegally fixing prices to fuck over the consumer. They have to get dragged kicking and screaming into every new technological advance. But woe be the person who suggests that these shitsicles go fucknuts if they even think someone is getting something in a way they don't like. Both sides have retreated into their respective foxholes so deeply, stayed there so long and shit all over themselves so much that both holes are brimming with fecal matter. You can't even see the point anymore with all the shit flowing around. There's no moral high ground anymore. It's flooded with all the diarrhea of the absurdity that is this issue. The best you can do is find some fat log that someone squeezed out to hold on to while the colon cannonball river keeps moving downstream. So I'll do what I damn well please, whether I choose to torrent a DVD, fund a kickstarter or buy something at full retail. I'll do it on a case-by-case basis depending on how the mood strikes me. Because I just can't muster a fuck anymore. *rant over* |
05-22-2012, 03:21 PM | #147 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
|
Quote:
Where did the downloading games part of this come in? How did you pay for those before you downloaded them?
__________________
-- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities |
|
05-22-2012, 03:24 PM | #148 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
|
If only this was Talk Like a Pirate Day...
__________________
I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4 |
05-22-2012, 03:29 PM | #149 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
Games are a different issue. The last game I pirated was Madden 08 or 09 I think. I just don't play games much any more. I've never downloaded a game I would have bought. It doesn't make it right though, I stole em. I have pirated games and then bought them or the next version to support the developers. There are some games out there right now I could have easily pirated but I payed for them instead. There are games I never would have payed for if I hadn't pirated them.
|
05-22-2012, 03:30 PM | #150 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
|
|