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Old 05-31-2008, 10:16 PM   #201
Jim G.
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What struck me about Tyson, after he got heavy and his quickness left, was how much punishment he could absorb and how bad he was at avoiding a punch.

I doubt a fight between him and Kimbo would A) last more than one minute and B) be all that entertaining from a real fighting perspective.

Then again, that's how Tyson built his own reputation 20 years ago - pounding overmatched and carefully selected opponents in 45 seconds. Some irony there.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:19 PM   #202
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That Thompson intro video didn't do him any favors.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:20 PM   #203
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They're doing a good job of building him up as a monster.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:24 PM   #204
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Jimmy Lennon Jr. just annoys the beejeezus out of me.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:27 PM   #205
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What the hell was wrong with that dude's ear?
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:32 PM   #206
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Slice lookin good in the preseason....Im impressed.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:33 PM   #207
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Hell of a first round considering the fighters...
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:33 PM   #208
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That wasn't nearly as bad as I would have expected if you told me how much time would be spent on the ground.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:37 PM   #209
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DDT !

Shades of the Jake the Snake.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:39 PM   #210
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Is this some sort of a joke?
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:40 PM   #211
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Seemed like an early stoppage there.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:41 PM   #212
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Definitely a joke. I guess they have to protect their money-maker.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:41 PM   #213
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WAY quick on the stoppage, but oh my god, that's the ugliest ear wound I've ever seen
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:42 PM   #214
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So does Thompson get a fine/lose part of his purse for the facewash of the ref?

And did Thompson come in with the ear like that or did that happen in the first round?
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:42 PM   #215
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"He popped his ear!"

he came in with it.....I think he should be penalized for bringing a second into the ring, attached to his head.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:43 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
And did Thompson come in with the ear like that or did that happen in the first round?

My comment came after I saw it during the introductions.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:43 PM   #217
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So does Thompson get a fine/lose part of his purse for the facewash of the ref?

And did Thompson come in with the ear like that or did that happen in the first round?


Think that happened in the first round.

Legend of Kimbo took a hit there
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:45 PM   #218
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My comment came after I saw it during the introductions.

Yeah, I thought it had to be pre-existing but wasn't sure. That brings us back to your question originally I guess "WTF happened to the guy's ear"

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Legend of Kimbo took a hit there
Y'think? I kind of think more of him now than I did before the fight. I figured that much ground time would have been the end of him
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:47 PM   #219
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Think that happened in the first round.

Legend of Kimbo took a hit there

He came in like that. It was there during the prefight introductions.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:47 PM   #220
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I think he could only have improved Thompson's ear with a couple more shots.

This is the before shot:

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Old 05-31-2008, 10:51 PM   #221
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Y'think? I kind of think more of him now than I did before the fight. I figured that much ground time would have been the end of him

agreed
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:52 PM   #222
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Not impressed with Slice at all. He has power but that's it. There are a hell of a lot of UFC fighters that would eat him alive.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:53 PM   #223
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for 3 fights...not bad.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:55 PM   #224
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Think that happened in the first round.

Legend of Kimbo took a hit there

I think it did, too. We knew he had taken on a fringe MMA guy (the former Boston policeman) and held his own in a long battle with mixed rules before getting pounded. This was before he started training in MMA.

Aside from that, I don't think he'd ever gone more than a minute. What surprised me was how quickly he got tired on the ground.

I have a lot of respect for the MMA guys, and know they have to be in tremendous shape to stay active for three five-minute rounds, but both those guys were out on their feet after one round.

Worse than losing for Slice was looking beat. If Thompson had any ground skills, both would have happened the next time he got Slice down. The ref had a quick hook there, and he had stood them up too quickly late in the first round.

That was more a joke than I had expected, and I'm coming away with more respect for the top MMA guys, because Slice has had real training for a while now and is still a long way from being a top contender.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:07 AM   #225
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I just heard about this. Watched his internet fights.

I don't pay much attention to anything other than the Ultimate Fighter, and the free stuff, but that guy seems ripe for the picking. How in the hell did he win?

He seems like if anyone takes him down and pounds him, or even tries a lame submission, he'd be toast.
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:33 AM   #226
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As far as MMA goes, Slice is way to overhyped for someone of his skill and development. I didn't get to watch the show last night, even though I intended too, but I generally agree that he shouldn't have been headlining the show.

The real fight it tonight. If anyone wants to see a real fight, Pulver-Faber tonight should be fantastic.
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:55 AM   #227
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He seems like if anyone takes him down and pounds him, or even tries a lame submission, he'd be toast.

When he was first taken down he did an okay job of getting out of it but that was mostly using brut force against an opponent who isn't exactly a top contender.

In the second round when he was taken down and got his arm trapped he pretty much ran out of gas and had no answerd at all. He was just lucky that he wasn't going against a better quality opponent or it would have been lights out.
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:08 AM   #228
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Just got to watch the fights this morning.

As for the main event, absolutely horrible stoppage. It very much looks like a fix. The only other possibility is they were trying REAL hard to not look too bloody on TV, and the ear thing just caused them to get it over withI would've liked to have seen Slice do better. I don't care much personally about the guy, but he's obviously Elite XC's most hyped guy and they need him to shine to do well here. I didn't think he looked horrible though, he handled himself a little better than I expected but he obviously has tons and tons more to learn, and not enough years to do it.

Really would've liked to see the Lawler/Smith fight continue, that one had a lot of potential.

Not a bad showing overall for them though. It wasn't anything spectacular, but they booked it well..they obviously didn't want to take chances with slow lay 'n pray style fights. I'll be curious to see what the ratings look like.

Good couple weeks for MMA though. We had a very solid UFC card last weekend, this show last night, tonight we have Faber vs. Pulver, and then next week another UFC.

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Old 06-01-2008, 10:44 AM   #229
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I thought the show was terrible, there are only two real explanations for all 3 of the stoppages and neither of them have anything to do with real MMA.

Either CBS didn't want alot of blood in the Women's fight, and the Kimbo/Thompson fight or they were both rigged.

You'll never see a fight in the UFC stopped because of a mouse under the eye, no matter how big it is, nor will you see one stopped because of a busted cauliflower ear unless the fighter quits. Unless it's over the eye, or really deep, the fight goes on if they want to continue. And that still doesn't explain the eye poke NC by Lawler, you could see he was noticably embarrassed by how he got out of that beating. Coincidently all three of these decisions went in favor of their 3 golden gooses.

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Old 06-01-2008, 10:52 AM   #230
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well consider me naiive then:

The girl, Taylor, looked to me to have a broken orbital. The fact that it went from no swelling to enormous swelling in a matter of seconds PLUS the doctor putting his hands directly on the bone to feel it spoke volumes.

The fighter, Smith, who got poked told the Doctor, "I can't see." I believe he meant, "I Can't see right now but give me the 5 minutes and we'll check then." However, he didnt. supposedly he said, "I can't see." twice but I only saw it once. As a Doctor you'd be assuming quite a bit of risk to allow anyone to go out there after telling you that.

The Slice stoppage I felt was timely. The opponent shouldve ended it in round 2. In round 3 I saw him go to La La land 2 or 3 times, His ear was going to be ripped off of his head and Slice was landing bombs repeatedly. Taken 1 of those things on it's own maybe it couldve gone longer. Combining those factors and I felt the stoppage was appropriate.

However, Im new to the sport so consider me a laymen.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:05 AM   #231
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Much like Flasch, I don't follow MMA all that closely but then again, we're pretty much the audience the show was intended for so ... I though the Lawler fight stoppage was premature, making the call without giving him the five minutes was a very bad decision IMO.

On the other hand I agreed with the stoppage in the Kimbo fight, all that seemed likely to happen if it continued was seeing at least parts of a guy's ear come off and that's not something I'm really interested in watching.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:08 AM   #232
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I didn't think it was a good showing. Each fight was basically stand up. There was no wrestling, no submissions and very little ground and pound (only Slice fight). This event was not a true showing of MMA. If this organization is going to be used to grow the sport, then they need to display better matches.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:15 AM   #233
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well consider me naiive then:

The girl, Taylor, looked to me to have a broken orbital. The fact that it went from no swelling to enormous swelling in a matter of seconds PLUS the doctor putting his hands directly on the bone to feel it spoke volumes.

The fighter, Smith, who got poked told the Doctor, "I can't see." I believe he meant, "I Can't see right now but give me the 5 minutes and we'll check then." However, he didnt. supposedly he said, "I can't see." twice but I only saw it once. As a Doctor you'd be assuming quite a bit of risk to allow anyone to go out there after telling you that.

The Slice stoppage I felt was timely. The opponent shouldve ended it in round 2. In round 3 I saw him go to La La land 2 or 3 times, His ear was going to be ripped off of his head and Slice was landing bombs repeatedly. Taken 1 of those things on it's own maybe it couldve gone longer. Combining those factors and I felt the stoppage was appropriate.

However, Im new to the sport so consider me a laymen.

There are some people saying (I didn't see it) that they could see Taylor in the corner saying 'I'll do whatever Elite XC wants' right before the stoppage. Sounds fishy, but it wasn't a hugely controversial decision, just unusual and when you throw it in with the other two it is suspect.

With the eye poke, in most cases the doctor never even comes into the octagon to check the guy's eye unless he's visibly shaken from it. And when they do, they don't look in the wrong eye more than the hurt eye and stop the fight. I've never seen a fight stopped due to an eye poke involuntarily (a mild one at that), and I've watched lots of MMA.

With the main event, Kimbo was getting destroyed on the ground - they stood them up (for no real reason other than that Kimbo wasn't doing anything), and then he was taken down and completely destroyed again til the end of the round and it still kept going. His ear wasn't going anywhere that is the most common 'injury' for wrestlers there is, and it SHOULD of been drained before the fight but even without he was in no danger with his ear.

Thompson was coming off two losses, he was suppose to come in and get knocked out because of his 'suspect chin' and his ear alone gave away the fact that he wasn't going to just stand and bang the whole fight. When they saw Kimbo was going to get exposed (which he did) they had to figure out a way to get him the W. He was no more shaken than Kimbo, they were both gassed. Kimbo was embarrassingly gassed considering he spent a good 6 minutes of the fight on his back eatting elbows and punches like dead weight.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:16 AM   #234
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There was no wrestling, no submissions and very little ground and pound (only Slice fight).

The general consensus has been that wrestling & submissions would be ratings death.

You might say the preferred presentation (from a largest audience standpoint) is something along the lines of "full contact boxing" instead of what the variety MMA actually includes.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:19 AM   #235
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And to clarify, I wasn't nor do I think anyone was naive for liking the show but I'd greatly suggest watching WEC tonight on VS or a UFC ppv (or the UFC fight night coming up) if you want to see good fights without BS biased finishes.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:29 AM   #236
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I thought the Lawler/Smith was excellent and definitely begs for a rematch based on the circumstances. Smith said afterward he was trying to take his full 5 minutes and I put the stoppage more on the Doctor, who either didn't fully understand the rules or does not have much, if any experience with MMA/Boxing and overreacted. Regardless, crappy way to end an excellent brawl. Classy thing for Elite to give both men their win bonus.

The stoppage in the Carano fight was justified, again a more experienced fight Doctor may have let it continue, but as Flasch said, she possibly suffered a fracture with the amount of swelling that occured almost immediately. Her Eye would have been completely shut fairly quickly if she had contniued and it would have ended then. I have seen Boxing matches stopped because of swelling.

The Slice fight was a complete joke and I am glad it happened on national TV. Kimbo's mystique was pretty much shattered and hopefully this derails the whole hype train surrounding him. Dude is a badass at what he does best (Street fight) but he will never be a top MMA guy. Thompson was a low level Pride guy and is completely on dimensional. Anybody with a solid ground game would have destroyed Slice in round two. He also should have taken about 30 knees to the ribs, which Thompson seemed to have no interest in doing at all.

Brett Rodgers who won the opening fight had destroyed Thompson inside of a round when they met and was pissed he was not allowed to fight Slice...I doubt he gets a chance now after this showing. Slice will become the Butterbean of MMA, a character they match largely with stiffs so they can ride the Gravy Train as long as possible. I imagine Dana White is still laughing somewhere.

At least Faber/Pulver tonight will redeem the weekend for MMA
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:31 AM   #237
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With all the talk about the finishes, I wonder how many people were thinking what I wondered for a bit: whether these were "worked shoots" instead of actual fights. Basically scripted with the ending called in advance but designed for everything to look as real as possible to the casual observer.

It isn't exactly unheard of with MMA fighters, several names have participated in such events through the years (Severn, Frye to name a couple) and it's done okay in Japan at times. So with last night's endings, it doesn't seem out of the question to at least wonder.

Thing is, I wonder what the "I wonder" percentage would be among MMA fans vs MMA casual observers vs MMA first time viewers.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:33 AM   #238
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The general consensus has been that wrestling & submissions would be ratings death.

You might say the preferred presentation (from a largest audience standpoint) is something along the lines of "full contact boxing" instead of what the variety MMA actually includes.


That's a good point Jon, the live TV, fights were definitely biased towards guys better known for their stand up and they stood fighter up a little pre-maturely a couple of times from the ground. Then again I don't know how the Slice fight could have possibly helped their cause in terms of garnering a new audience of those who did not have a lot of exposure to MMA.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:39 AM   #239
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With all the talk about the finishes, I wonder how many people were thinking what I wondered for a bit: whether these were "worked shoots" instead of actual fights. Basically scripted with the ending called in advance but designed for everything to look as real as possible to the casual observer.

It isn't exactly unheard of with MMA fighters, several names have participated in such events through the years (Severn, Frye to name a couple) and it's done okay in Japan at times. So with last night's endings, it doesn't seem out of the question to at least wonder.

Thing is, I wonder what the "I wonder" percentage would be among MMA fans vs MMA casual observers vs MMA first time viewers.

This is a fairly common practice in Japan, with the hook being you never know when.

From my perspective, whether it was implied or directed, there was no way they were going to let Slice lose that fight unless he got knocked cold or choked out. Thompson's style was tailor made for Slice and I think they in no way anticapated him giving Kimbo so much trouble. It seemed as soon as he had the slightest excuse the Referee couldn't stop the fight quick enough.

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Old 06-01-2008, 01:05 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Sherdog Message Board
EliteXC on CBS Television Ratings-

3.3/6

Not terrific, but not awful either...

It outdid game four of the Stanley Cup Finals on NBC which drew a 2.6/5 last night...

Take it for what it's worth. I've never heard of ratings released this quickly. The poster later says the official ratings will be out tomorrow.
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:36 PM   #241
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Take it for what it's worth. I've never heard of ratings released this quickly. The poster later says the official ratings will be out tomorrow.

Those are almost certainly the overnights, which could have been leaked already I imagine.

Question is whether that 3.3 rating is Households (in which case it's at or below their Saturday night average in May) or if it's A18-49 (in which case it's a big jump over recent weeks).
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:51 PM   #242
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Kimbo is what he is. I dont have any reason to knock him. He works hard and is trained by Bas, so he is on the right track. The guy doesnt have much of a wrestling or Jits background, its just going to be a long time(if at all) before he has the skills to compete with top tier fighters. Im not going to hate him just because EliteXC is using his name to make money.

Quote:
Coincidently all three of these decisions went in favor of their 3 golden gooses.

I dont understand this. Carano was beating Young badly, I have no problem with decision. Lawler was on his way to victory, that stoppage didnt help him at all. Kimbo is the only one I can agree with. You had to know going into this that they werent going to let the fights get very bloody.

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I didn't think it was a good showing. Each fight was basically stand up. There was no wrestling, no submissions and very little ground and pound (only Slice fight). This event was not a true showing of MMA. If this organization is going to be used to grow the sport, then they need to display better matches.

Well we all knew this going in. The card was setup to be a bunch of striking. They got exactly what they wanted. Knowing that going in, I enjoyed the card. Baroni/Villasenor was probably the only match that underpreformed.

I just hope they dont feel the need to keep trotting out Kimbo every time they are on CBS. There are several good matches they can put out there now. The Lawler rematch should have some hype. Carano always puts on a great show. Shamrock did very well commentating, so he should draw interest. Chung Le is a another guy they can throw out there that will be very entertaining to the masses.

IMO, Jason Miller is one guy that would turn into a huge star if put on network TV.
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Old 06-01-2008, 03:04 PM   #243
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I dont understand this. Carano was beating Young badly, I have no problem with decision. Lawler was on his way to victory, that stoppage didnt help him at all. Kimbo is the only one I can agree with. You had to know going into this that they werent going to let the fights get very bloody.

Lawler was losing that fight, he had the first round but the second and what was left of the third could of easily been judged in Smith's favor.
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:44 PM   #244
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Let me also add that I get slightly annoyed by Carano NEVER making weight. I understand she's attractive and the female face of MMA but I do find it a bit much that she is consistently not making weight. Fight at a heavier weight if you can't make it. We'd never hear the end of it if a guy was doing this. Just a minor annoyance though.

As for Jason Miller, I believe he's setup to fight Jacare on the next Dream card which should be a very interesting fight. Jacare looks amazing so far, but he hasn't been in with higher level competition though so I'll be interested to see how it goes. Dream has a couple of pretty good Grand Prix's going on right now. I'm excited to see their lightweight tourney finish up, and the middleweight one has a couple good match-ups like the Miller one I mentioned and then a horrific matchup where they're setting Sakuraba up to be murdered by Melvin Manhoef. Sakuraba will end up brain dead before his career is done.
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:08 PM   #245
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Elite XC is a joke. The early stoppage in the Lawler-Smith fight was the worst I have ever seen and the stoppage in the Kimbo (overhyped) Slice fight was pretty weak too. That busted cauliflower ear wasn't going to hurt anyone. What a weak showing. I am thinking UFC is not at all woried about Elite XC. Hell, the IFL and Hardcore Championship Fighting were 10 times the promotion Elite is.
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Old 06-01-2008, 08:45 PM   #246
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Is the Versus HD channel dropping out every few minutes for a few seconds for anyone else? I'm just starting to watch the first fight on the HD-DVR, and it is annoying.
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Old 06-01-2008, 08:48 PM   #247
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Is the Versus HD channel dropping out every few minutes for a few seconds for anyone else? I'm just starting to watch the first fight on the HD-DVR, and it is annoying.

No problem here
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:11 PM   #248
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Is the Versus HD channel dropping out every few minutes for a few seconds for anyone else? I'm just starting to watch the first fight on the HD-DVR, and it is annoying.


Happened here a few times too
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:33 PM   #249
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These fights tonight have been much more entertaining than last night's card.
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:48 PM   #250
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That was a very entertaining fight. It's a shame that didn't go the distance.
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