2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[RainMaker]

The Cuba thing probably does sting because they kick our ass in so many things. Lower poverty rate, higher literacy, better life expectancy, and lower homelessness.

Castro is a shitty despot crushed by an embargo and still laid the wood to America here. That's not a compliment of Castro, more an indictment on how pathetic America is in some areas.

[molson]

The issue isn't Castro v. Batista. It's that the Florida's huge Cuban population is specifically there, separated from their families forever, because they, or their parents, fled Castro. First it anyone who had to do with Batista, then it was the middle class professionals after Castro gutted their livelihood, then it was thousands of unaccompanied minors whose parents didn't want them shipped off for re-education. Praise of Castro is understandably offensive to them. Anybody whose life improved through Castro is still in Cuba.

The comments - and the types of economic systems and revolutions Sanders admires -also touch a fear held by some non-Cubans that Sanders is willing to throw the middle class out with the bathwater if he can burn everything down in the process. (The comments and rhetoric about how only rich people rely on the stock market show you were his line of the "rich" really is.)

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He did explain how he would pay for it. Although it is funny that people now care about the deficit.
.

Yeah a lot of people care about massive new spending initiatives that aren't clearly explained where the money is coming from. Even some of the other Democratic candidates seem to wonder. I know what's $28,000,000,000,000? But but but the other guys do it too!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

The issue isn't Castro v. Batista. It's that the Florida's huge Cuban population is specifically there, separated from their families forever, because they, or their parents, fled Castro. First it anyone who had to do with Batista, then it was the middle class professionals after Castro gutted their livelihood, then it was thousands of unaccompanied minors whose parents didn't want them shipped off for re-education. Praise of Castro is understandably offensive to them. Anybody whose life improved through Castro is still in Cuba.

I mean this is basic politics here, especially when it comes to Florida. The anti-Castro stuff may have minimized over the years, but it's still around. You don't stoke that fire. The Florida Dems are pissed because this is going to make their jobs harder.

[QuikSand]

I think the best explanation is that Bernie Sanders is trying to win the way Obama won... not by micro-targeting swing states and narrow demographics, but by moving the battle lines completely and overwhelming the electorate so the red/blue border becomes, itself, irrelevant. I confess I thought it was a risky AF play for Obama to make at the time, but it effectively worked. Sanders believes his path is to just double down and agree with everything he has ever said, maintain his aura of "consistency" in doing so, and try to transform the election because he's... authentic, or something like that. Most everything I see fits with this mentality.

[ISiddiqui]

Remember though Obama had the 2008 financial meltdown to help him make his case. I also believe Trump has a higher approval rating than W did at the time.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yeah a lot of people care about massive new spending initiatives that aren't clearly explained where the money is coming from. Even some of the other Democratic candidates seem to wonder. I know what's $28,000,000,000,000? But but but the other guys do it too!

I don't know. We entered a few endless wars and everyone got real quiet on the budget. Been pretty quiet on those farm bailouts too. Not to mention those tax cuts.

Seems like the only time deficit gets brought up is when it relates to health care.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

The issue isn't Castro v. Batista. It's that the Florida's huge Cuban population is specifically there, separated from their families forever, because they, or their parents, fled Castro. First it anyone who had to do with Batista, then it was the middle class professionals after Castro gutted their livelihood, then it was thousands of unaccompanied minors whose parents didn't want them shipped off for re-education. Praise of Castro is understandably offensive to them. Anybody whose life improved through Castro is still in Cuba.

The comments - and the types of economic systems and revolutions Sanders admires -also touch a fear held by some non-Cubans that Sanders is willing to throw the middle class out with the bathwater if he can burn everything down in the process. (The comments and rhetoric about how only rich people rely on the stock market show you were his line of the "rich" really is.)

I get it. I just don't think he said all that much in praise of Castro. Nothing more than what Obama said. It was incredibly tame and I wonder how many people actually listened to the clip.

The literacy thing gets brought up because it mirrors what happened in our own country. Slaveholders forbid slaves from learning because it would empower them. Remember that Batista literally had a nation filled with slaves like the old South. American companies used this slave labor gleefully (also some lingering hatred toward Cuba is from when they turned that spiggot of slave labor off to American corporations).

With that said, I just find it weird we focus on him. Considering this country's love affair with brutal dictators past and present, I'd put Castro far down on the list. Mubarik was a much more brutal ruler just died. Hillary called him a "family friend".

[Izulde]

I notice the web clickthru ads are already going whole hog on the "No Socialism" message.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I get it. I just don't think he said all that much in praise of Castro. Nothing more than what Obama said. It was incredibly tame and I wonder how many people actually listened to the clip.

The literacy thing gets brought up because it mirrors what happened in our own country. Slaveholders forbid slaves from learning because it would empower them. Remember that Batista literally had a nation filled with slaves like the old South. American companies used this slave labor gleefully (also some lingering hatred toward Cuba is from when they turned that spiggot of slave labor off to American corporations).

With that said, I just find it weird we focus on him. Considering this country's love affair with brutal dictators past and present, I'd put Castro far down on the list. Mubarik was a much more brutal ruler just died. Hillary called him a "family friend".

I think you're overthinking how much this country gives a s*** about Cuba's literacy rate.

What we have is a self declared socialist who honeymoons in the Soviet Union praising authoritarian communist regimes. And when that guy is running for President there is going to be criticism.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I think you're overthinking how much this country gives a s*** about Cuba's literacy rate.

What we have is a self declared socialist who honeymoons in the Soviet Union praising authoritarian communist regimes. And when that guy is running for President there is going to be criticism.

I know this country doesn't care. They didn't care about Cubans who were enslaved and used as labor for American corporations. It's all just politics, no one really cares about the people involved.

[Brian Swartz]

I think the big thing with Castro was his proximity. Hosni Mubarak was halfway around the world. Fidel's Cuba is just slightly over 100 miles away at closest approach from Florida.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I think the best explanation is that Bernie Sanders is trying to win the way Obama won... not by micro-targeting swing states and narrow demographics, but by moving the battle lines completely and overwhelming the electorate so the red/blue border becomes, itself, irrelevant. I confess I thought it was a risky AF play for Obama to make at the time, but it effectively worked.

Obama was perceived as a moderate by many of the independents who voted for him. It remains to be seen, but I don’t think that will be the case with Sanders.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I think the big thing with Castro was his proximity. Hosni Mubarak was halfway around the world. Fidel's Cuba is just slightly over 100 miles away at closest approach from Florida.

Well we supported Batista who was 100 miles away. Montt, Branco, Somosa, Pinochet, Baby and Papa Doc were all close too. I'm leaving out a bunch too.

Then the Contras, Atlacatl Battalion, and so on in Central America. Heck, the Wikileaks cables pointed out that we were funding a death squad in Honduras still.

Lets face it. Castro took out a US-friendly regime that provided slave labor for American corporations. That is why he is considered bad. Those other brutal dictators and death squads don't matter they benefited us in some way.

This is a country that gave Henry Kissinger the Medal of Freedom and we're upset a candidate mentioned that Castro's literacy program was good.

[Edward64]

Watching MSNBC. They all seemed a little panicked that Bernie will win.

It is what it is. If Bernie wins, I believe Trump's odds go way up. But one way or another, we'll figure out if we want to be the United Socialist States of America with new warts and all ... or good old USA with current warts and all.

Putin must be chucking every day. Com'on Biden (or Bloomberg or Steyer), win one.

[Vegas Vic]

What Sanders said about Castro is true, but not politically astute. If a candidate said “I know Hitler was a bad guy, but when he was in power the trains ran on time”, it probably wouldn’t help his campaign either.

[Kodos]

I'm rooting for Biden to kick ass in South Carolina.

[albionmoonlight]

If Biden wins SC, then Pete and Amy would be doing the country a pretty big favor by dropping out before Super Tuesday (Amy should have dropped out already).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If Biden wins SC, then Pete and Amy would be doing the country a pretty big favor by dropping out before Super Tuesday (Amy should have dropped out already).

If they don't (and I think Biden will likely win SC - unless the debate tonight goes really, really bad for him), then they are paving a Sanders plurality at least.

[RainMaker]

Bloomberg seems a much bigger impediment to Biden (and vice versa). If he had a choice, I'd guess Biden would want Bloomberg gone.

Also if Pete continues to fail, would it be smart for Biden to announce that he'd seek only 1 term and have Pete has his VP? Would vanquish some of the talk of his age and give the party a young person on the ticket. Then again, I feel like it's going to be hard not to put a woman on the ticket as VP.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Well we supported Batista who was 100 miles away. Montt, Branco, Somosa, Pinochet, Baby and Papa Doc were all close too. I'm leaving out a bunch too.

Then the Contras, Atlacatl Battalion, and so on in Central America. Heck, the Wikileaks cables pointed out that we were funding a death squad in Honduras still.

Lets face it. Castro took out a US-friendly regime that provided slave labor for American corporations. That is why he is considered bad. Those other brutal dictators and death squads don't matter they benefited us in some way.

This is a country that gave Henry Kissinger the Medal of Freedom and we're upset a candidate mentioned that Castro's literacy program was good.

Batista also never wanted to aim nuclear missiles at the US.

[ISiddiqui]

I actually don't think a lot of the others like Buttigieg.

I think Biden would look more favorably on Klobuchar as a VP. But he has made no secret that he'd really like Stacey Abrams on the ticket.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I actually don't think a lot of the others like Buttigieg.

I think Biden would look more favorably on Klobuchar as a VP. But he has made no secret that he'd really like Stacey Abrams on the ticket.

It's no secret that Amy hates him. She resents the fact that a person with relatively little accomplishments would dare stand on the stage with a senator like herself and criticize her.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I actually don't think a lot of the others like Buttigieg.

I think Biden would look more favorably on Klobuchar as a VP. But he has made no secret that he'd really like Stacey Abrams on the ticket.

What about Kamala Harris? Or does her record as DA screw that up? Abrams would be interesting but not sure she would want it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Batista also never wanted to aim nuclear missiles at the US.

The US never tried to invade and overthrow the Batista government.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What about Kamala Harris? Or does her record as DA screw that up? Abrams would be interesting but not sure she would want it.

Abrams has been receptive to being a VP, at least in public statements. Biden, nor any other Democratic nominee, needs a VP choice to win California .

[GrantDawg]

Biden today said he is running for US Senate, and then said you can just "vote for the other Biden." Age is kicking his ass.

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[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Abrams has been receptive to being a VP, at least in public statements. Biden, nor any other Democratic nominee, needs a VP choice to win California .

I figured she'd be Bloomberg's pick. She has been bought and paid for by him already and gives him some pushback on decades of racist behavior.

[Lathum]

The crowd didn't love Bloombergs Russia jab at Bernie

[NobodyHere]

I think Warren is being full of shit right now

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I think Warren is being full of shit right now

I agree.

[Edward64]

Lively debate. This is fun so far

[NobodyHere]

Good lord moderators, take control

[Edward64]

Not sure who the crowd is boo'ing.

[NobodyHere]

Probably a Bloomberg fan who wasn't a billionaire.

That wasn't a good line by Bernie insinuating only billionaires like Bloomberg.

[NobodyHere]

This debate has left me with one question:

Who's the Libertarian candidate this year?

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Not sure who the crowd is boo'ing.

Bloomberg probably paid for people to sit in the audience and boo Sanders

[Galaril]

Bernie’s answer to the NRA question was not good trying to turn it into a Biden legislation question on unrelated stuff.

[Edward64]

Bloomberg is better prepared and is doing better than last time. Not sure its good enough though.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Bloomberg probably paid for people to sit in the audience and boo Sanders

Tickets for this were like $2k each.

[tarcone]

Reparations? Really? Pandering are you? As an Irish american I want reparations for all the work my ancestors had to do for free to earn their citizenship.

[ISiddiqui]

A lot of fire at Bernie today (as the front runner he should) and I don't think he's handled it well at far.

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[Edward64]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Reparations? Really? Pandering are you? As an Irish american I want reparations for all the work my ancestors had to do for free to earn their citizenship.

Yeah, that came out of the blue. Don't think that is a winning platform for Steyer.

[Edward64]

We'll all be smoking weed soon.

Not a bad thing ... just saying

[NobodyHere]

Pretty much every Democratic candidate has endorsed reperations in one form or another.

Not sure why this is a surprise.

[ISiddiqui]

Right. And you are in South Carolina. If you don't think black folks have been talking about and advocating reparations you haven't been paying attention.

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[Edward64]

Sure. So why does Steyer think its a winning platform for him?

[Edward64]

Finally, the coronavirus!

[ISiddiqui]

In order for Steyer to go anywhere he needs to win the black vote, and he actually is polling really well in SC. So reminding the voters that he is for reparations is good (though all of the programs other candidates are saying to benefit African Americans specifically are partially reparation plans).

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[tarcone]

Bloomberg would be worse for this country than Trump would ever be.