SWAT raid on Missouri family

[lungs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd like nothing more than to see these fucking criminals executed on their second possession arrest. They're less than vermin afaic & I've got no real use for those who try to excuse their behavior either.

God damn! I'd be one step away from execution!

Looking through the laws by country, not even the Muslim countries execute for simple possession.

Thankfully people that think like you are being marginalized more and more every day.

[RendeR]

Jim's a smoker, so one of two things is going to happen:

A. He smokes himself to death. WIN!

B. They finally label Tobacco a narcotic and he gets tossed in Jail for his huge stash of Pall Malls. WIN!


Either way this is WIN WIN.

JiMG is a fucking tool.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Yeah, c'mon guys, screw that dog. It clearly should have been literate enough to read SWAT on the uniforms to determine that these were officers of the law and not armed intruders. It's his problem for being ignorant and illiterate.

Had to think long and hard about who you were talking about...

[Toddzilla]

Wait, so is this socialism gone wrone? Are we for the police or against them? I thought we didn't want to live in a police state...

...man, being a wingnut is so confusing.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Wait, so is this socialism gone wrone? Are we for the police or against them? I thought we didn't want to live in a police state...

...man, being a wingnut is so confusing.

My general understanding is that the far left wants the government to tell everyone what to do EXCEPT criminals.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If you feel this is a threat to you, then yes, you are a raging pussy.

I'm gonna go with RainMaker here.

I can't imagine anyone with a weapon seriously believing they were threatened by a corgi. Pretty much even if a dog like this bites you...you can end the threat short of gunfire.

My corgis once cornered a rabbit. They are herding dogs, and the damn rabbit kept moving. Once they got it seriously cornered, the rabbit charged one of them. The dog couldn't back pedal fast enough. These aren't threatening dogs.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Here Video of SWAT Raid on Missouri Family - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine and then it links to others as well.

He asked for a news story, not a "glorified blog"...

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I'm gonna go with RainMaker here.

I can't imagine anyone with a weapon seriously believing they were threatened by a corgi. Pretty much even if a dog like this bites you...you can end the threat short of gunfire.

My corgis once cornered a rabbit. They are herding dogs, and the damn rabbit kept moving. Once they got it seriously cornered, the rabbit charged one of them. The dog couldn't back pedal fast enough. These aren't threatening dogs.

Somehow I doubt they had a purebred. Probably a mix and a mix with what would depend on the answer to the question but it makes better news calling it a corgi.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Somehow I doubt they had a purebred. Probably a mix and a mix with what would depend on the answer to the question but it makes better news calling it a corgi.

On one hand, reason.com's investigation, where they have actually looked into the matter, is insufficient.

On the other hand, "somehow I doubt" is supposed to be credible?

[JPhillips]

From what I've read it was a mix of Corgi and communist tiger.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

over/under that 7 year old goes on to found project mayhem?

[MizzouRah]

All of that for pot? What's next, SWAT teams busting down doors because you have too much beer in your refridgerator?

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by molson

My general understanding is that the far left wants the government to tell everyone what to do EXCEPT criminals.

Cause if we are going to polarize every debate, the political left is really the side of the spectrum that has been against civil liberties (and therefor telling people what to do), really? Really?! I guess it is having the government "telling people what to do" when it is an issue one doesn't agree with.

[RedKingGold]

Sigh

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

My general understanding is that the far left wants the government to tell everyone what to do EXCEPT criminals.

No, the left wants to tell you what to do with your money, the right wants to tell you to do with your lives.

[RendeR]

No excuse what so ever for what the police did in this situation. None. Unacceptable on every level.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

My general understanding is that the far left wants the government to tell everyone what to do EXCEPT criminals.

More like they want fewer people to be considered criminals

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RendeR

JiMG is a fucking tool.

Yippee, I've been dissed by our resident whackadoo. My life is now complete.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

He asked for a news story, not a "glorified blog"...

Gonna be more difficult to find that, since this isn't particularly newsworthy. Hell, it's already 3 months old before it even fans the lefty flames of FOFC.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If you feel this is a threat to you, then yes, you are a raging pussy.

To be fair, that's a German Sheppard named "Dorf."

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

He asked for a news story, not a "glorified blog"...

That's why I said there were news stories linked in the "blog".

[flere-imsaho]

This must be the "B" SWAT team.

After reading all the articles that have been written on this, I think we can conclude the following:

First, they demonstrate abysmally poor reconnaissance skills. After first being given direction to conduct a day raid so there was less chance the wife and child would be home, they call that off and perform a night raid without ascertaining if the wife and child are still home.

Second, they fail threat assessment. Guys in kevlar feel threatened enough by a pit bull to shoot it to kill, in close quarters where they might kill a child? Quality decision-making, guys.

Third, they exhibit a lack of fire control, evidenced by shooting the corgi after the pit bull. You want these guys to operate in residential areas? Really? Hope your legal defense fund is in good shape.

Some lawyer's going to have a field day with this.

[Drake]

I'm pretty sure that if my neighbor's pit bull was being as "aggressive" as that one and, say, endangering my child and I shot it (on the owner's property, no less) with that little provocation, I would get sued and I would lose.

I suspect you're going to see the same thing happen here. The PD is going to get sued, some officers are going to get suspended for a bit and there'll be some re-training in appropriate decision making.

I'm normally a big fan of cops doing whatever it takes to keep themselves safe, but the way this video plays out, it looks and feels like a training exercise for a bunch of newbie cops gone wrong. Like flere says above, if these were just regular regular cops serving a warrant, I'd be more willing to give them some benefit of the doubt (scared, trigger-happy, adrenaline rush) since they're not generally put in these types of situations.

SWAT is specifically trained to deal with these situations and should be held to a higher standard. In my mind, they didn't meet it, and they put innocents in danger. They shot the dog *before* they'd identified the location of the child (which isn't surprising, since they apparently didn't know the child was in the house...). Their only suspect was the husband, which means they willingly placed innocents in harms way in the interest of making the arrest.

The motto of the police department is Protect and Serve, not Arrest and Detain (which I would call a "corollary, but secondary function." Protect and Serve is their primary charge, and at that, they failed in favor of their secondary objective.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yippee, I've been dissed by our resident whackadoo. My life is now complete.

I feel honored, I've gone from a mid-pack melodramatic to a "Resident whackadoo"


THANKS JON!

Every time you post you make all of us look that much better.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Cause if we are going to polarize every debate, the political left is really the side of the spectrum that has been against civil liberties (and therefor telling people what to do), really? Really?! I guess it is having the government "telling people what to do" when it is an issue one doesn't agree with.

I've lost track for who's for civil liberties anymore, I was just saying in a far (extreme) left world, you tend to have a lot of police running around. The lines do get blurred at the fringes. Extreme far right/extreme far left do need a pretty heavy police presence to keep things there.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

This must be the "B" SWAT team.

...

For what it is worth. SWAT ain't what most of us figure it is. In most communities the bar is pretty low for an officer to qualify for a SWAT unit.

[Drake]

That's a good point. My county is small enough that we don't have a SWAT team, but I imagine that the Columbia SWAT wouldn't be confused with the LAPD SWAT or even the St. Louis SWAT.

[Poli]

What's all this talk about Jim Sorgi about?

[MrBug708]

To me, the dog would certain be susceptible to gunfire if they inhibited the officers from properly doing their job. The last thing the SWAT officer needs to do is trip over a dog while trying to neutralize a suspect. Not saying it was the right thing to do, but I seriously doubt the officer's intent was to go in there and kill any dog who stood in his way. Or maybe the suspect threw the dog at officers?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Did you even watch the video?

If we're just speculating for justifications, maybe the dog was actually the keymaster from Ghostbusters.

[SportsDino]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd like nothing more than to see these fucking criminals executed on their second possession arrest. They're less than vermin afaic & I've got no real use for those who try to excuse their behavior either.

I feel the same about white collar criminals.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Did you even watch the video?

If we're just speculating for justifications, maybe the dog was actually the keymaster from Ghostbusters.

Huh?

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Huh?

He is wanting to know if you watched the video...cause the dog was in a completely separate room then where the "suspect" was.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

If we're just speculating for justifications, maybe the dog was actually the keymaster from Ghostbusters.

This is starting to make sense.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

He is wanting to know if you watched the video...cause the dog was in a completely separate room then where the "suspect" was.

I watched the video. That doesn't mean the SWAT officer wasnt in danger of tripping over the dog

[Drake]

SWAT officers who trip over dogs in a house with all of the lights on should be fired for lack of appropriate mobility. Those guys weren't even moving double time. If the dog was a tripping danger to any of them, they're not coordinated enough to be handling firearms for a living.

[cuervo72]

Our house has so many tripping hazards they'd have to firebomb the whole darned thing.

[Drake]

When my kids were toddlers, I used to trip over them all the damned time. I guess they go on the list as well.

[CU Tiger]

I tend to agree with Jon more than most, and for the most part believe if you break the law you get what you deserve, but this goes beyond excessive.

Admittedly I love my dogs, but if that was one of my Labs, I swear I would hunt and kill everyone of those a**holes....

[jeff061]

They could very well be trained to shoot all dogs during the process of a raid, I don't know. As had been said, they are not trained for pleasantries and the problem isn't what they did, it's why they were even there.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by jeff061

They could very well be trained to shoot all dogs during the process of a raid, I don't know. As had been said, they are not trained for pleasantries and the problem isn't what they did, it's why they were even there.

And on this I disagree 100%, break the law and you are subject to arrest.
You are not subject to have your property and pets destroyed/

[jeff061]

I would say we actually agree .

I am not saying they don't deserve to be arrested. I am specifically saying SWAT shouldn't have been sent in on a raid to accomplish it, which equates to the damage you oppose.

So I don't blame SWAT, I blame whatever failure in the system allowed them to be there. If it turns out they really are guilty of dealing huge quantities of drugs and somehow hid things, then I really won't shed a tear over anything.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I would say we actually agree .

I am not saying they don't deserve to be arrested. I am specifically saying SWAT shouldn't have been sent in on a raid to accomplish it, which equates to the damage you oppose.

So I don't blame SWAT, I blame whatever failure in the system allowed them to be there. If it turns out they really are guilty of dealing huge quantities of drugs and somehow hid things, then I really won't shed a tear over anything.

Again, I am sure this is a minority view point. But I dont care if they were dealing cargo ships full, there is no excuse for murdering their dog, unless he was actively mule-ing the dope. I dont care who they send, but they do need to act professionally not like a bunch of drunk fat boys on a panty raid.

[jeff061]

Oh yeah, easily disagree there. Its not about punishment, it's about mitigating risk in an unknown environment for the safety of the raiding party.

I'm not sure why anyone would think steps should be taken that endanger the cops while protecting the criminal's personal property.

That said, this certainly doesn't apply to a recreational pot smoker. There are plenty of options on how to accomplish that safely, like not pinching them in a house.

[RainMaker]

[Karlifornia]

Where's that picture from? It's funny.

[bigmike75]

Let me caveat my statement...
I would consider myself to be more conservative than any other viewpoint..
I also have a background in the type of thing you saw conducted in that video except at a much different level...
Um...yeah that SWAT Team is basically a band of hillbilly retards with zero clue how to clear a house.
To say that what happened was embarrassing is a slight understatement. Endstate should be Commander fired, trigger puller(s) fired..They did a shitsuck job..Also fuck the guy who got arrested, he broke the law so I gives a damn about him going to jail..But if he's got to pay so do the "SWAT"(seriously these guys are about as highly trained as..well they just suck)Team Members..
JMG..I understand you have seen dudes lost for various reasons...been there brother done that..Don't make 12 dudes kitted up with submachine guns layin waste to Scruffy right..Sorry..

Fuck that guy for dealing drugs and fuck that SWAT team for their horrible decision making...It's a lose lose!

[bigmike75]

Also my language was atrocious, I apologize

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by bigmike75

Let me caveat my statement...
I would consider myself to be more conservative than any other viewpoint..
I also have a background in the type of thing you saw conducted in that video except at a much different level...
Um...yeah that SWAT Team is basically a band of hillbilly retards with zero clue how to clear a house.
To say that what happened was embarrassing is a slight understatement. Endstate should be Commander fired, trigger puller(s) fired..They did a shitsuck job..Also fuck the guy who got arrested, he broke the law so I gives a damn about him going to jail..But if he's got to pay so do the "SWAT"(seriously these guys are about as highly trained as..well they just suck)Team Members..
JMG..I understand you have seen dudes lost for various reasons...been there brother done that..Don't make 12 dudes kitted up with submachine guns layin waste to Scruffy right..Sorry..

Fuck that guy for dealing drugs and fuck that SWAT team for their horrible decision making...It's a lose lose!

bigmike wins.

errr wait - can you define "a background in those things that you saw, except at a much different level" more clearly for us please?

[bigmike75]

Haha no, I won't get into that, if you're really curious ill get with you off the forum about it..Obviously I don't want to start a piss contest here since this is a board related to football text simulations! However the first time I saw this video was on this forum (love this forum by the way) and it was so ridiculous I couldn't hold back..