So.. I have been working on a football simulation

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by ShaneTheMaster

XNA framework - (which XBOX games use)

Does this mean you intend to release it on the XBox? I would think Steam would be the better place, hence I'm asking.

[SteveMax58]

Definite supporter of this & would buy 2 or 3 copies if I liked it enough.

The 2d is fine but I agree with others that stated circles, helmets, or something similar could be just as effective unless you want to improve the players over time more.

While I also agree with the "concern" with a solo developer & 2d (perhaps focus or prioritization of it) and the various other projects started with that goal in mind...I would say that you can avoid those types of issues by establishing what your engine's standard deviation can support for your various skillsets. Then make sure your player generation (and possibly your editor/importer) will "normalize" those skillsets so that they fall within what you establish as acceptable.

Best of luck to you on this Shane...this place will be hopping when you are ready to alpha/beta/whatever test this.

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Does this mean you intend to release it on the XBox? I would think Steam would be the better place, hence I'm asking.

No, this is for the PC.

[AlexB]

Interest definitely piqued. I would also say on first impressions lose the pads and add a grille to the helmet to indicate direction they are facing, or maybe it's just the size of the pads that needs to be toned down?

Somebody mentioned robots, and it does look a little like that.

But I am definitely in the market for the type of game you are working on, so it will definitely get a dl when out for demo

And while Ben is right in what he says, just because others have failed to get 2D to work in line with realistic stats, doesn't mean everyone will.

[booradley]

When will this be ready for my amusement? Tomorrow? Saturday? I'm lenient ...

[ShaneTheMaster]

Did a good bit of work on the kickoff animation. The tricky part was getting the ball to make the unpredictable bounces when it hits the ground (although most of the time someone would be catching it.)

Just want to do a little more tweaking.

Anyone know of any easy way to record a video capture? And a place that will host it for free?

[Matthean]

Twitch

Seems to be one geared towards games.

[Radii]

twitch.tv is really geared towards live streaming, but it is an option I suppose. The potential issue with twitch as a marketing tool is that if you set up a stream to show a kickoff and something goes wrong, what you streamed is saved for awhile. Apparently for a shorter amount of time than I thought actually, from a support thread on twitch(Twitch Upload Question)

Twitch.tv is not youtube, you can't upload videos to it. You can stream live broadcasts, and it will automatically record them (saved for 4 days unless you click "save forever"), that's as far as it goes.

Using desktop recording software like fraps and then uploading to youtube would be my first thought.

[Grammaticus]

I would buy a solid finished product. The 2D graphics are not an issue with me. If the play flows correctly, the pads, a helmet, circles, etc. does not matter to me.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

multiplayer?

[Fidatelo]

At work we use Jing to create and share progress videos up to 5 minutes long for free.

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life

multiplayer?

Yes - I haven't figured out exactly how the multiplayer aspect will work, yet, though. My initial emphasis will be on making sure the thing can give an accurate simulation of professional football.

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by booradley

When will this be ready for my amusement? Tomorrow? Saturday? I'm lenient ...

Not anytime soon, but would like an active community see it as it is developed.

[ShaneTheMaster]

These youtube videos don't do this justice, but it'll have to do until I figure out how to share higher quality videos.

I've been working on the kickoff animations, and how a player's attributes affect the kickoff itself. It's hard to see, but notice how the ball can bounce funny after it hits the ground, just like in real life. Some tweaking may be necessary. I also made the length of the shoulder pads a little shorter - but you probably won't be able to tell that in these videos. Also note that in all videos, the kicker is aiming to kick the ball right down the middle.

Below are 3 videos demonstrating 3 different kicks by the same player with a leg strength rating of 6, and a kickoff accuracy rating of 6.

http://youtu.be/EC1RCv7B898
http://youtu.be/WJWfvoeog1E
http://youtu.be/BnCp7am0P54

Below are 3 kicks by a different player, but this player has a leg strength rating of 9, and a kickoff accuracy rating of 0.

http://youtu.be/q5BxNBjf7Ho
http://youtu.be/XVJypLCg9qc
http://youtu.be/W9WdasW7hAg

Next up: "teaching" a player to catch the kickoff.

[Matthean]

Never has there been so much excitement in empty field kickoffs.

[sabotai]

Good luck with it, Shane. I've been working on my own football game as well* (with Unity3D - will be in 2D though of course). And I'm sure about dozen other people reading this thread have half finished football sims on their computers too. Law of averages says one of us should actually finish a 2D football game (or at least just a new sim) one of these days, right? ....right!?


* - splitting time with a grand strategy game set in the ancient (european/middle eastern/north african) world. Both are still in the early stage and whichever one I have the most interest in as time goes on will get the majority of my time. Full disclosure.....I'm currently leaning towards the strategy game. If anything, because I just see more sales potential there. (......not that i have a track record of finishing anything....)


Anyway, not trying to steal Shane's thunder. Looking forward to more videos.

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Good luck with it, Shane. I've been working on my own football game as well* (with Unity3D - will be in 2D though of course). And I'm sure about dozen other people reading this thread have half finished football sims on their computers too. Law of averages says one of us should actually finish a 2D football game (or at least just a new sim) one of these days, right? ....right!?


* - splitting time with a grand strategy game set in the ancient (european/middle eastern/north african) world. Both are still in the early stage and whichever one I have the most interest in as time goes on will get the majority of my time. Full disclosure.....I'm currently leaning towards the strategy game. If anything, because I just see more sales potential there. (......not that i have a track record of finishing anything....)


Anyway, not trying to steal Shane's thunder. Looking forward to more videos.

Cool, good luck with your endeavors!

[Blackadar]

Don't mean to nitpick, but in 2 of the 6 demonstrations the ball pitches backwards upon landing. Now that happens on a punt every so often, but it's extremely rare for a kickoff given the trajectory of the kick. FootballUniverse KP9 KA0 1b - YouTube in particular looked rather unrealistic. That's a kickoff from the 35 yard line that hits the 10 and rebounds back almost to the 30 yard line. It's probably possible from a physics standpoint for that to happen, but it certainly isn't likely.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[saldana]

looking good shane..it was like watching tecmo from a blimp!

really looking forward to more on this

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Don't mean to nitpick, but in 2 of the 6 demonstrations the ball pitches backwards upon landing. Now that happens on a punt every so often, but it's extremely rare for a kickoff given the trajectory of the kick. FootballUniverse KP9 KA0 1b - YouTube in particular looked rather unrealistic. That's a kickoff from the 35 yard line that hits the 10 and rebounds back almost to the 30 yard line. It's probably possible from a physics standpoint for that to happen, but it certainly isn't likely.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I somewhat agree in that the maximum football acceleration amount needs to toned down a little bit when the football hits the ground, but the football bouncing backwards doesn't happen that often (maybe 10% of the time) - I just chose that video as an example to illustrate the bouncing ball algorthm that I had created.

Good point about it happening more often on punts because of the way the ball spins!

[Vaevictis_386]

I'd love it because of the 2D, provided the 2d does what I want.

I want to be able to make roster and play calling decisions based off of what I see in the 2D.

Example: Guard pulls too slow, never where I need him to be on a sweep, but he knocks defenders down on inside runs. Time to crank up the inside run game!

Example: Receiver misses lots of catches on inside routes, but is ok on routes towards sideline. Time to cut that wimpy fool!

[Vince, Pt. II]

Probably something you realize, but might want to stop the camera from continuing to pan to the right once the end zone is in view. Seeing 80% black screen and 20% football field is weird.

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Probably something you realize, but might want to stop the camera from continuing to pan to the right once the end zone is in view. Seeing 80% black screen and 20% football field is weird.

Yep, plenty of little things like that still need to be done.

[Blackadar]

Shane, we're football purists. You'll hear many suggestions/comments like those in Vince's and my posts if you hang around. I hope you understand that we're also football sim junkies and want to help make any product the absolute best it can be, including yours. As such, our suggestions/comments are meant to be helpful and not negative or hurtful in any way.

[Toddzilla]

Just to clarify, the 2D will just represent what the AI has already determined what the result of the play was and not influence play outcomes, correct?

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Shane, we're football purists. You'll hear many suggestions/comments like those in Vince's and my posts if you hang around. I hope you understand that we're also football sim junkies and want to help make any product the absolute best it can be, including yours. As such, our suggestions/comments are meant to be helpful and not negative or hurtful in any way.

Absolutely - thats why I like posting my progress on here - to get good feedback from fellow football purists.

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Just to clarify, the 2D will just represent what the AI has already determined what the result of the play was and not influence play outcomes, correct?

Good question. The answer is No. (For the most part.)

For the most part, I am not doing a bunch of precalculations or "dice rolls" before the play begins, and then showing an animation that shows a summary of the results. Decision by the players are being made dynamically at run time, so the 2D engine is used to determine the results. The result of the play is not known until the play is finished.

This will work just like Football Pro did - the only difference between a "simmed" game and a played game is that the graphics aren't rendered in a "simmed" game, so there isn't any difference statistically between a played game and simmed game - they use the same engine.

[Toddzilla]

then I'm out

[boberot]

Originally Posted by ShaneTheMaster

I somewhat agree in that the maximum football acceleration amount needs to toned down a little bit when the football hits the ground, but the football bouncing backwards doesn't happen that often (maybe 10% of the time) - I just chose that video as an example to illustrate the bouncing ball algorthm that I had created.

Good point about it happening more often on punts because of the way the ball spins!

Did somebody say Maximum Football?!?!

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

then I'm out

Just curious, why are you "out"? I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying.

[Toddzilla]

The jist of what I think you said is that the graphics are going to somehow influence the outcome of the plays, even in some slight fashion, and that's a stone-cold out for me.

[Buccaneer]

I haven't kept up but I assume that all strategy games' graphics are pre-determined and then rendered - including RTS, TBS and (non-interactive) sports.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I haven't kept up but I assume that all strategy games' graphics are pre-determined and then rendered - including RTS, TBS and (non-interactive) sports.

You would think so. I am not sure how you could possibly design it the other way around at this time and get realistic results.

Football Manager clearly has the graphics come into play after the results are figured out.

[Baldric]

My understanding was that the graphics are representative of the logic in the Match Engine, but the play will continue to develop in real time, instead of being precalculated.

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Baldric

My understanding was that the graphics are representative of the logic in the Match Engine, but the play will continue to develop in real time, instead of being precalculated.

ding ding ding ding ding ding.. We have a winner!

[stevew]

Good luck. I remember an online acquaintance once built a basketball game from scratch and literally sold like one copy.

Love the Mt. Everest analogy quik.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You would think so. I am not sure how you could possibly design it the other way around at this time and get realistic results.

Football Manager clearly has the graphics come into play after the results are figured out.

He's basically saying that the rendering and the game engine happen simultaneously. The graphics aren't somehow deciding the outcome of the play, just that he doesn't get a result and then somehow build a visual representation of it after the fact.

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

He's basically saying that the rendering and the game engine happen simultaneously. The graphics aren't somehow deciding the outcome of the play, just that he doesn't get a result and then somehow build a visual representation of it after the fact.

This. Thanks for explaining it alot better than I did.

[Toddzilla]

Awesome! I'm back in

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by ShaneTheMaster

This. Thanks for explaining it alot better than I did.

You're welcome

[ShaneTheMaster]

Been working on having 2 receivers on the opposing team - one of them (the closest) will commit to receiving the ball, the other will start running upfield ahead of him (and later on will block for him).

Sometimes, he will not catch the ball - he will drop it, or he will not be able to get to it. He will then have to pick it up (later this will be enhanced to account for other teammates around the ball).

Will post a video in the next few days to show this.