Making the hurrican relief effort a racial issue

[JW]

First let me say that I think there have been terrible failures in the hurricane relief effort both at the state (La.) and national level. I think Gov. Blanco has been a walking disaster and that the federal effort -- led by the president -- has been too little too late. This disaster, including the urban terrorism, had all been foreseen. It was not a surprise to many experts. But I want to address another issue.

That issue is the attempt by Jesse Jackson and others including Congressional black caucus members to make this a racial issue. My opinion is that those crying racism are themselves racists of the highest order.

This is a regional disaster of unprecedented proportions. Although the tv cameras are focused on New Orleans and the mainly poor black hurricane victims remaining in the city, New Orleans is not the only place affected. Many areas in rural southeastern Louisiana are just as devastated and have not seen the first helicopter or soldier or Red Cross or homeland security agent. They are fending for themselves. And there is a monumental disaster on the Mississippi Gulf coast. The cameras are focusing on New Orleans, but the disaster is far greater than New Orleans. And in fact New Orleans is receiving and has been receiving since the disaster the lion's share of the relief effort.

This lion's share has been too little and too late, but there is nothing racist about the relief effort and its failures. And for Jackson and others to play the race card here is deplorable. I think it is too bad that no political figure on the national level is willing to stand up to the racists who are yelling racism.

I also think it will be time in Louisiana after this crisis is over to take a hard look at the culture of dependency that has developed in poor black communities in Louisiana. I think the state and black leaders across the state need to take strong measures to end that culture of dependency.

Finally a word about levee repair funds. The idea circulating joyfully among the Bush-haters is that cuts in levee repair funds contributed directly to the failure of the levees. An editorial cartoon making that connection ran in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, and btw, in the Gannett-owned Monroe La. paper among others today. But that connection is pure bullshit. A lie. Everyone knew the system could not withstand a cat 4 or 5 hurricane, and levee repair funds had nothing to do with upgrading the system. If the Bush-haters want to criticize Bush about the relief effort, I think that is fair game and I would agree. They don't need to try to concoct a lie about levee repair funds.

This was a disaster waiting to happen, and all the experts knew it. Racism had nothing to do with it. And a few million in levee repair funds had nothing to do with it.

[Airhog]

Isn't this just old hat for Jesse? It seems like he is always playing the race card, so it not really a suprise to see him play it here.

[jeff061]

I'm having trouble understanding the whole race issue. Between Jackson and Kanye West, is this seriously a point of view some blacks have? Maybe being born and raised in New Hampshire, where there is no racial tension, makes it more difficult for me to understand why some black people are so quick to divide what I see as a whole?

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

It really is sad that it's always a race issue. Gimme a break already! What about the urban and rural whites, asians, hispanics that have also been affected and bore the brunt across the 100,000 square mile area? They havent gotten diddly squat yet or have heard anything from anybody. Their world was turned upside down too.

[Rasmuth]

you could see the race issue coming since the first day...once we realized the vast majority of the victims were non-caucasian.

[jeff061]

I think it's obviously more of a money/poverty in reguards to race issue. Which is a whole other debate outside of Katrina.

[Cringer]

I do find it interesting that today FOX seems to be focusing on a large group of vietmanese (sp?) people at the convention center today. They keep showing them when they show the convention center now, like they are trying to show it is not just black people.

[dawgfan]

I agree JW. I thought Kanye West was waaaay out of line for trying to turn the NBC telethon into a political forum - now is not the time to start in with political attacks on the President and pulling the racism card. Same thing with Jesse Jackson.

There will be plenty of time in the coming months to analyze this disaster and the response by all levels of government, but now is not the time. Now is the time to focus on what can we do to improve the situation.

While there will be arguments that can be made on how various media outlets have portrayed this disaster, and while there will be real political discussions about why, when this disaster was predicted pretty much as it's played out, there wasn't better preparedness, and while I have no love for President Bush and his compatriots, the suggestion that the slow federal response was due to racism on the part of this adminstration is mind-bogglingly stupid and extremely counter-productive for those trying to make that point.

[Masked]

I think the government's (state and federal) response has been very poor. All of the problems they are having now were anticipated.

The reason we see poor blacks suffering is the news crews are in New Orleans, a very poor city with a very large black population. If the media was in St. Bernard, Plaquemines parish, or even the I610-I10 split near where I grew up, we would see a very different group suffering - wealthier and more ethnically diverse.

That said, there are still significant problems with race in gulf coast and other parts of the country. I have read some of the local messageboards trying to get very specific news on different parts of the city. Over the past several days, the number of racist posts has increased dramatically. Several are clearly from locals, but several are clearly from outsiders who are taking advantage of this situation to promote their own agenda.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I'm having trouble understanding the whole race issue. Between Jackson and Kanye West, is this seriously a point of view some blacks have? Maybe being born and raised in New Hampshire, where there is no racial tension, makes it more difficult for me to understand why some black people are so quick to divide what I see as a whole?

Are there black people even in New Hampshire?

SI

[JeeberD]

Here's a clip of Kanye's idiocy, btw...

http://home.comcast.net/~jeeberd2/24420044548.wmv

[jeff061]

Nope. Bout 3 out of 1000(I think) at my high school.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Are there black people even in New Hampshire?

SI

In 2000, we had 9,035 out of 1,235,786 residents (0.7%).

Louisiana had 1,451,944 out of 4,468,976 residents (32.5%).

New Orleans is 67.3% black and 1.5% Vietnamese (3rd-largest minority, behind white - 26.6% - and hispanic - 3.1%).

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Are there black people even in New Hampshire?

SI

New Hampshire is still a state??

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Here's a clip of Kanye's idiocy, btw...

http://home.comcast.net/~jeeberd2/24420044548.wmv

HAHAHA. It took me a minute, seeing Tucker and Myers there, and realizing this isn't some sort of comedy clip. Or is it??? Is he really serious or is this a spoof? If it's serious, does this West guy have a mental disability?

[Schmidty]

Who the hell is Kayne? When did he become someone I'm supposed to have heard of?

The only Kayne I'd ever heard of before was a Big Red Machine.

[JeeberD]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...090300165.html

Kanye West's Torrent of Criticism, Live on NBC

By Lisa de Moraes

Saturday, September 3, 2005; Page C01

Why We Love Live Television, Reason No. 137:

NBC's levee broke and Kanye West flooded through with a tear about the federal response in New Orleans during the network's live concert fundraiser for victims of Hurricane Katrina last night.

The rapper was among the celebs and singers participating in the one-hour special, produced by NBC News and run on the NBC broadcast network, as well as MSNBC and CNBC, because, hey, the numbers couldn't be any worse than usual on a Friday night and hopefully they'd raise a chunk of change for a good cause, the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund.

Among the performers, Faith Hill sang "There Will Come a Time," which included the lyrics, "The darkness will be gone, the weak shall be strong. Hold on to your faith." Aaron Neville performed Randy Newman's "Louisiana 1927" with its chorus: "They're trying to wash us away, they're trying to wash us away."

West was not scheduled to perform; he was one of the blah, blah, blahers, who would read from scripts prepared by the network about the impact of Katrina on southern Louisiana and Mississippi.

West and Mike Myers had been paired up to appear about halfway through the show. Their assignment: Take turns reading a script describing the breach in the levees around New Orleans.

Myers: The landscape of the city has changed dramatically, tragically and perhaps irreversibly. There is now over 25 feet of water where there was once city streets and thriving neighborhoods.

(Myers throws to West, who looked extremely nervous in his super-preppy designer rugby shirt and white pants, which is not like the arrogant West and which, in retrospect, should have been a tip-off.)

West: I hate the way they portray us in the media. You see a black family, it says, "They're looting." You see a white family, it says, "They're looking for food." And, you know, it's been five days [waiting for federal help] because most of the people are black. And even for me to complain about it, I would be a hypocrite because I've tried to turn away from the TV because it's too hard to watch. I've even been shopping before even giving a donation, so now I'm calling my business manager right now to see what is the biggest amount I can give, and just to imagine if I was down there, and those are my people down there. So anybody out there that wants to do anything that we can help -- with the way America is set up to help the poor, the black people, the less well-off, as slow as possible. I mean, the Red Cross is doing everything they can. We already realize a lot of people that could help are at war right now, fighting another way -- and they've given them permission to go down and shoot us!

(West throws back to Myers, who is looking like a guy who stopped on the tarmac to tie his shoe and got hit in the back with the 8:30 to La Guardia.)

Myers: And subtle, but in many ways even more profoundly devastating, is the lasting damage to the survivors' will to rebuild and remain in the area. The destruction of the spirit of the people of southern Louisiana and Mississippi may end up being the most tragic loss of all.

(And, because Myers is apparently as dumb as his Alfalfa hair, he throws it back to West.)

West: George Bush doesn't care about black people!

(Back to Myers, now looking like the 8:30 to La Guardia turned around and caught him square between the eyes.)

Myers: Please call . . .

At which point someone at NBC News finally regained control of the joystick and cut over to Chris Tucker, who started right in with more scripted blah, blah, blah.

"Tonight's telecast was a live television event wrought with emotion," parent company NBC Universal said in a statement issued to the Reporters Who Cover Television after the broadcast.

"Kanye West departed from the scripted comments that were prepared for him, and his opinions in no way represent the views of the networks. It would be most unfortunate if the efforts of the artists who participated tonight and the generosity of millions of Americans who are helping those in need are overshadowed by one person's opinion."

West's comments would be cut from the West Coast feed, an NBC spokeswoman told The TV Column. (The Associated Press later reported that only his comment about the president was edited out.) The show was live on the East Coast with a several-second delay; someone with his finger on a button was keeping an ear peeled in case someone uttered an obscenity but did not realize that West had gone off-script, the spokeswoman said.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

(West throws back to Myers, who is looking like a guy who stopped on the tarmac to tie his shoe and got hit in the back with the 8:30 to La Guardia.)

(Back to Myers, now looking like the 8:30 to La Guardia turned around and caught him square between the eyes.)

Ok, that's just too funny.

SI

[jeff061]

He'll probably sell a ton more albums now.

[CraigSca]

Am I misreading his comments - or did Kanye West say himself that he'd first thought about spending his money shopping until appearing on the telethon? To each his own, and he surely has to take care of himself and his family, but it seems slightly hypocritical to say the government doesn't care about blacks, and is taking its own sweet time in helping out the poor when he himself has chosen not to donate at that particular time.

[Riggins44]

Good ol Jesse "getting rich off of racism" Jackson. Do I think the horrible response time was race motivated? Um, no reason to believe that yet. Is it possible? I guess. My point is that this idiot should be spending some of the money he's made to help those people in peril. Get supplies in there... rent some boats and hire some people to go look for survivors. It isn't time to figure out why it took so long... get to helping you jackass!

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by JW

Finally a word about levee repair funds. The idea circulating joyfully among the Bush-haters is that cuts in levee repair funds contributed directly to the failure of the levees. An editorial cartoon making that connection ran in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, and btw, in the Gannett-owned Monroe La. paper among others today. But that connection is pure bullshit. A lie. Everyone knew the system could not withstand a cat 4 or 5 hurricane, and levee repair funds had nothing to do with upgrading the system. If the Bush-haters want to criticize Bush about the relief effort, I think that is fair game and I would agree. They don't need to try to concoct a lie about levee repair funds.

From what I hear, the levees were designed to withstand a direct hit from a cat 3 hurricane. NOLA was hit by the weak side of a cat 4 hurricane, and the levees should have stopped it as designed.

I'm not one to get into racist explanations for things, I think this is more just plain incompetance, but the recent incident with the rich folks from the hotel getting to the front of the line at the Superdome evactuation, and the Red Cross being denied entry into the city, and with helicopter operations being suspended after taking gunfire, it makes me wonder what kind of rescue and relief operations would be taking place if were rich white folks instead of poor black folks. Not as any overt decision, but just a subconscious one.

[JW]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

From what I hear, the levees were designed to withstand a direct hit from a cat 3 hurricane. NOLA was hit by the weak side of a cat 4 hurricane, and the levees should have stopped it as designed.

I'm not one to get into racist explanations for things, I think this is more just plain incompetance, but the recent incident with the rich folks from the hotel getting to the front of the line at the Superdome evactuation, and the Red Cross being denied entry into the city, and with helicopter operations being suspended after taking gunfire, it makes me wonder what kind of rescue and relief operations would be taking place if were rich white folks instead of poor black folks. Not as any overt decision, but just a subconscious one.

I repeat that it is racists who are suggesting that this is a racial issue, conscious or subconscious. The mayor of New Orleans who ordered those 'rich folks from the hotel' to the front of the evacuation line is black. His comment on the race issue was, "This is not a race issue, it is a class issue, there are some poor white people but the overwhelming majority of poor in NO are black." Is it racism that has prevented state or federal officials from reaching rural Plaquemines Parish? It is a very difficult situation, and there are many failures, but imho anyone playing or accepting the race card in this matter is just that -- a racist.

As for the levee, do we really want to get into the question of who cut levee funding and when? Hint: Bush wasn't the first to do it. The vulnerability of New Orleans has been well known for decades, and no administration, Democrat or Republican, has done anything to help. As for the city being hit by the weak side of a cat 4, the flooding was predicted from just such a storm, driving tidal surge water up the river and into lakes, with the wind from backside then driving the water from the lake southward onto the levees. BTW, there is some controversy today that you probably will never hear on the national media regarding two things: a barge breaking its moorings and hitting the levee (concrete portions, not earthen), and a break at an area that had been under repair by the Corps of Engineers. One break occurred at one of the newest portions of the levee, btw. It is simply Bush-hating to suggest that a cut in levee repair funds led to the flooding. Those funds were insignificant. When someone shows me that a breach occurred because a specific defect in the levee was not repaired due to the most recent cut in federal levee funding, then I will listen to the Bush-haters on this issue.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

From what I hear, the levees were designed to withstand a direct hit from a cat 3 hurricane. NOLA was hit by the weak side of a cat 4 hurricane, and the levees should have stopped it as designed.

This is a bit off-topic for this thread, but it follows from your comment. I suspect that the catagorization of hurricanes is going to change a bit after this storm. Pressure is probably much more important than wind speed. 12-18 hours before landfall, Katrina was the 4th strongest hurricane ever observed in the Atlantic tropical basin. As a result of the extremely low pressure, a massive storm surge built up. the storm surge does not immediately vanish when the wind speed drops. Basically, a lot of things are correllated with each other - wind speed and pressure, wind speed and surge, pressure and surge, size of the eye and wind speed, etc but some are more tightly coupled than others. In this case you had cat 3/4 winds, but a cat 4/5 storm surge. It was the storm surge that lead to the massive flooding.

And the worst case scenario for flooding is for a hurricane to pass just east of the city.

[JW]

Here is the initial assessment from the Corp of Engineers. It indicates that the storm surve over the levees gouged out the breaches. So in other words the levee system was not designed to withstand the surge that it faced.

http://www.nola.com/weblogs/print.ss...int075987.html

Times-Picayune

Thursday, September 01, 2005

Surge, breach and a 26-foot-deep gouge
8:32 p.m.

By Mark Schleifstein
Staff writer

The initial wave of storm surge that poured over the concrete wall of the 17th Street Canal as Hurricane Katrina passed New Orleans dug a 26-foot-deep gouge on the other side, resulting in the failure of several wall panels and the flooding of much of the city, an Army Corps of Engineers official said Thursday.

Al Naomi, project manager for the east bank Lake Pontchartrain hurricane levee system, said the high water that the strong Category 4 storm pushed into the lake overwhelmed the levee’s design when the lake backed up into the canal.

“They were designed to withstand a surge for a Category 3 or less storm,” Naomi said. “You might have had one or two feet of water pouring away over the top of the wall, cutting away at the earth below it, and as that happened, the walls began to collapse.

“When that occurred, there was no way to get water out of the city. Those walls are basically there, or they’re not.”

Naomi said corps engineers think the same thing happened along the London Avenue canal in Gentilly and along segments of the Inner Harbor Navigation Channel that gave way and flooded Chalmette.

“They’re pretty similar walls at that area, in the pictures we looked at,” he said. “The floodwalls were collapsed.”

Naomi said there was no way officials could have done anything about the collapses during the storm, even if they had become immediately aware of them.

“You can’t go out there in the middle of a hurricane and put your finger in the dike,” he said.

“Now the task is to close the gap so you can start pumping the city out. You can’t pump until they’re closed.”

Boh Bros. Construction Co. has begun installing metal sheet piling along the Old Hammond Highway bridge over the 17th Street Canal to keep lake water from backing up into the canal. State Transportation and Development Secretary Johnny Bradberry said the job will be complete by Friday afternoon.

A similar dam might be installed at the lake end of the London Avenue Canal, Naomi said.

Workers also are putting huge sandbags into the 17th Street Canal breach in an effort to fill the scour hole. They hope to complete the plugging of the gap by Saturday.

The corps and the New Orleans Sewerage & Water Board are evaluating each of the city’s drainage pumping stations and fixing those that aren’t working properly.

“We’re working very closely with the New Orleans Sewerage and Water Board and have identified pump stations they have prioritized to get in service quickly,” said Walter Baumy, chief of the engineering division of the corps in New Orleans. “We’re working with them to get those stations dry so they can get those operations of getting stations ready to pump underway.”

Metairie resident Thomas Jackson, vice president of the engineering consulting firm DMJM Harris-AECOM, which works closely with the New Orleans branch of the corps, said another major obstacle will be reactivating the S&WB power station near Claiborne Avenue at the Jefferson Parish line. It provides juice to about 60 percent of all New Orleans drainage pumping stations.

“Unless and until they get the power generation station going there, they won’t run period,” he said.

But before the huge pumps at the southern end of the 17th Street, or other canals, can be turned on full blast, Naomi said engineers must inspect the canal levees and walls.

“We want to make sure that when we turn them on, that the force of the water being pumped out doesn’t do something to weaken the walls and collapse them,” he said.

Water is normally in the canal at a height of 1 to 2 feet above sea level, the same height as the top of Lake Pontchartrain, as they’re designed to drain water into the lake. And pumping the floodwater out of neighborhoods into canals will add another two feet to the canal height, he said.

But the streets below average 5 feet below sea level. If another levee wall breaks, even with the lake back to a normal level, water will again pour into the city, Naomi said.

Naomi said that in addition to the plans, announced on Wednesday, to cut levees surrounding the city, the corps is considering bringing in additional pumps and other equipment to suck water out.

Naomi said the deepest water in the area flooded by the 17th Street and London Avenue canals was in the Lakeview, Pontchartrain Shores and Pontchartrain Gardens neighborhoods. In the lowest spots, the water reached 20 feet deep, or five feet above sea level.

He said additional rainfall in coming days is a relatively minor threat, considering the amount of water already in the city. The water level is steadily falling in the city, he said, and will continue until it reaches the level of the breaks being made in the levees.

“Today, the lake is at 2.1 feet, almost normal stage, and water is flowing out through the gaps,” he said Thursday at 8 a.m. “It is going down. “There’s no way it can go up again.”

Naomi said the levees failed because they weren’t designed for a hurricane as strong as Katrina.

“This is an extreme event that the system could not handle,” he said. “It was designed for a Category 3 hurricane or less, and it has protected us from those for a while.

“But there’s no way we could have this type of event without some type of failure,” he said. “It’s going to stress the system tremendously and you should not be surprised with failures. When you put the physical properties of the concrete and steel walls built on the canal under this kind of stress, there’s going to be a catastrophe.”

(Washington correspondent John McQuaid contributed to this report.
(Mark Schleifstein may be reached at [email protected])

[Dutch]

Jesse Jackson can't see past the color of anyone's skin. He's not a racist, but he is a master of suggestion and innuendo...as long as it gets him on TV.

I don't think Jesse Jackson should still be considered front page news. His only true quality that he still possesses is his ability to create controversy and division. He's a messenger who's message was needed in the 1980's. We got the memo then, thanks, now goodbye.

[st.cronin]

Jesse Jackson has as much credibility as Michael Jackson.

[Joe]

I don't know who this Kayne West guy is, other than that he is a rapper, but to turn a telethon into your own public forum, and potentially turn people off from donating money is in VERY poor taste. But as said before, he was probably only there to boost his CD sales or whatever.

[Galaxy]

It was a classless move, a time of providing your talents and heart to raise money for the victims, not a personal forum. Now is not the time to play the blame game, escp. when your trying to raise support from citizens.

As for West, he is pretty "Bling Bling".

Also, I heard on the radio yesterday that Britney Spears just wrote on her website, "I hope everyone is ok", and thats it.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by George W Bush

I don't know who this Kayne West guy is, other than that he is a rapper, but to turn a telethon into your own public forum, and potentially turn people off from donating money is in VERY poor taste. But as said before, he was probably only there to boost his CD sales or whatever.

People were on his jock well before this - especially the mainstream pop music media - so it's not like he needed the telathon to do that. The retards he put him on there were dumb, because if they'd ever heard his music - they knew what he thought of the President - and KNOW that he's prone to open his mouth and say something outlandish or downright stupid.

So blame the network for putting him on TV and giving him a forum. He didn't do anything out of the ordinary for himself, that's for sure.

[Buccaneer]

Don't forget this incident with Jackson from yesterday. His bus came into town and the stranded started surrounding it. What did that dipshit do? He kept on going so he could make a grandstanding announcement. How about this worthless scum of a human being give up his bus so people get out? Oh that's right, even though the mayor called for every bus to come pick up people, Jackson and his entourage were exempt.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

People were on his jock well before this - especially the mainstream pop music media - so it's not like he needed the telathon to do that. The retards he put him on there were dumb, because if they'd ever heard his music - they knew what he thought of the President - and KNOW that he's prone to open his mouth and say something outlandish or downright stupid.

So blame the network for putting him on TV and giving him a forum. He didn't do anything out of the ordinary for himself, that's for sure.

To me, it's outrageous to suggest that the network should get all the blame for this. Why they chose Kanye West, I don't know. Maybe he asked to be there, and they were trying to accomodate people whom they thought actually gave a damn about the situation instead of wanting to stand on a papier-mache soapbox. Perhaps whoever booked him was ignorant of West's music - I sure would be, as I've never heard it - but his lack of mental capacity would not get in the way of him reading a script. The network bookers' only crime was actually having faith that somebody could push their agenda aside long enough to not stand in the way of true compassion.

There will be people who will pull some donations back because of this, and that's a fucking shame. To blame the network for having a little faith in human beings shows just how little we expect people to do the right thing (or at least avoid doing the wrong thing).

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

People were on his jock well before this - especially the mainstream pop music media - so it's not like he needed the telathon to do that. The retards he put him on there were dumb, because if they'd ever heard his music - they knew what he thought of the President - and KNOW that he's prone to open his mouth and say something outlandish or downright stupid.

So blame the network for putting him on TV and giving him a forum. He didn't do anything out of the ordinary for himself, that's for sure.

Yeah it was dumb of them to put him on there, but I can almost guarantee whoever's decision it was has never or will never listen to his music. Probably just figured he's big in the pop music scene or whatever, and booked him to be on the show.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by JW

I repeat that it is racists who are suggesting that this is a racial issue, conscious or subconscious. The mayor of New Orleans who ordered those 'rich folks from the hotel' to the front of the evacuation line is black. His comment on the race issue was, "This is not a race issue, it is a class issue, there are some poor white people but the overwhelming majority of poor in NO are black."

Race and economic status are closerly correlated in NOLA, sometimes it's impossible to distinguish between the two. If the relief effort was so mismanaged because of economic class instead of race, I don't see how it is any better. And let's not forget that there are racists at the highest levels of our government. Bush's glib porch rebuilding comment was about Trent Lott, who was kicked out of his leadership position for suggesting a longing for segregation. Just as you can't call everything racially motivated, you can't call everything not racially motivated.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

Race and economic status are closerly correlated in NOLA, sometimes it's impossible to distinguish between the two. If the relief effort was so mismanaged because of economic class instead of race, I don't see how it is any better. And let's not forget that there are racists at the highest levels of our government. Bush's glib porch rebuilding comment was about Trent Lott, who was kicked out of his leadership position for suggesting a longing for segregation. Just as you can't call everything racially motivated, you can't call everything not racially motivated.

Wow. Just wow.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Wow. Just wow.

Ditto. I got nothing.

[Hurst2112]

Call me the worst person to say something in this thread. Worst because I don't know the facts...

Can I assume that the lower-class neighborhoods were on the north side of the town, right under the lake, close to the levees? It seems that the downtown, Bourbon St. and other touristy areas were closer to the gulf.

If that's the case, then OF COURSE the black community is going to be hit the hardest. It makes sense that the shittiest neighborhoods would be the most at risk for a possible natural disaster. "stick em out there close to danger so we don't have to be" is something that COULD be a reality. and when I say 'em' I am talking a lower class financially, not black or other minority.

so, can anybody give me to low down on how the city is set up? Is the rough part of town bordering the lake. Is the poverty line close to the levees that broke?

Oh, and Jackson is a dork.

[JW]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

Race and economic status are closerly correlated in NOLA, sometimes it's impossible to distinguish between the two. If the relief effort was so mismanaged because of economic class instead of race, I don't see how it is any better. And let's not forget that there are racists at the highest levels of our government. Bush's glib porch rebuilding comment was about Trent Lott, who was kicked out of his leadership position for suggesting a longing for segregation. Just as you can't call everything racially motivated, you can't call everything not racially motivated.

Bullshit. Pure bullshit. The racists are those who see everything through the prism of race. There is a lot more of that on the left than on the right. And the relief was mismanaged due to neither race nor class. Like I said, everyone who wants to imply racial bias in the relief effort is a racist. Are you seeing things through Jesse Jackson eyes?

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

This thread will not end well.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

This thread will not end well.

Maybe not, but JW's correct.

[JW]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

This thread will not end well.

That's okay. I'm not going to argue with him any longer. I don't have time for his hateful politics. I'm through with it and have better things to do.

[Karlifornia]

It's distressing that Jesse Jackson tries to play the race card when it isn't necessary. Kanye West is a blowhard moron who is further away from poor black people than than most non-black people. I saw an interview with him on MTV recently. He paused before every time he spoke, as if every last soul on Earth hinged on his response, but enough about him.

It sucks that non-racist whites have to bear the burden of "white guilt" for the horrific actions of their ancestors, but if you lived a country where most people look nothing like you, talk nothing like you, you'd probably make knee-jerk assumptions that it was racial..Most of the time you would be wrong, but shit still happens.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by JW

That's okay. I'm not going to argue with him any longer. I don't have time for his hateful politics. I'm through with it and have better things to do.

See, now I don't agree with the term "hateful" in regard to this issue. I think "divisive" is a more fair and fitting adjective.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Call me the worst person to say something in this thread. Worst because I don't know the facts...

Can I assume that the lower-class neighborhoods were on the north side of the town, right under the lake, close to the levees? It seems that the downtown, Bourbon St. and other touristy areas were closer to the gulf.

If that's the case, then OF COURSE the black community is going to be hit the hardest. It makes sense that the shittiest neighborhoods would be the most at risk for a possible natural disaster. "stick em out there close to danger so we don't have to be" is something that COULD be a reality. and when I say 'em' I am talking a lower class financially, not black or other minority.

so, can anybody give me to low down on how the city is set up? Is the rough part of town bordering the lake. Is the poverty line close to the levees that broke?

Oh, and Jackson is a dork.

No, the core of the 18th and 19th century city is along the two bends of the river (the Crescent City). In the early 20th century, the city drained its swamps and low-lying areas, not only to attract more workers but also to take in the influx of rural Southerners migrating from the farms to the cities. This happened in many cities, particularly Northern ones. Basically, the old money moved away from the core as transportation improved, leaving behind areas where immigrants could settle. Additionally, in cases like in N.O., the reclaimed lands offered cheap housing as well. N.O. with its easy access via the river and proximity to the largest concentration of former slave/sharecropper areas became an easy magnate for such population - much like NYC became the magnate for the Irish and later, the Italian and Eastern European immigrants.

[Buccaneer]

Take a look at these maps http://www.ddc2000.com/products/samp...k/53011010.htm particularly the one labeled "U.S. South: Average Number of Slaves Per Slaveholding 1860" about 2/3 down.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Can I assume that the lower-class neighborhoods were on the north side of the town, right under the lake, close to the levees? It seems that the downtown, Bourbon St. and other touristy areas were closer to the gulf.

If that's the case, then OF COURSE the black community is going to be hit the hardest. It makes sense that the shittiest neighborhoods would be the most at risk for a possible natural disaster. "stick em out there close to danger so we don't have to be" is something that COULD be a reality. and when I say 'em' I am talking a lower class financially, not black or other minority.

so, can anybody give me to low down on how the city is set up? Is the rough part of town bordering the lake. Is the poverty line close to the levees that broke?

Oh, and Jackson is a dork.

The north west part of the city bordering the lake and the 17th St canal is middle to upper class. Its a big area, some areas are predomantly white, others are mixed. Hundreds to thousands of homes in this area are going to have insurance claims around or above $1M (house + property). The north-eastern parts are lower to middle class, and again a mix of races. This is a very broad discription though since this covers a very large part of the city.

[Buccaneer]

You know, I am really getting pissed off at the "slow response time due to race/class" argument. Don't they know how long it take to do anything logistically on a decent scale? Here's an example:

Southern University has purchased four portable shower systems than can accommodate up to 80 people each at a time for use by Hurricane Katrina evacuees.


"The showers should be installed by Tuesday and they will provide opportunities for daily shower for all of our guest," said Interim President/Chancellor Edward R. Jackson.

"Installed by Tuesday". Now, I know there isn't the urgency in this as getting water but think about it. The storm was raging through the areas north of Louisiana on Tuesday. All roads in and around SE LA were closed. The airport was closed. Even if you had truckloads of water waiting to be delivered, it wasn't going to be until Wednesday till it gets there. The people inside the area couldn't get out (and certainly get around) and the people outside the area couldn't get in. Military troops can but it takes time to get them organized, equiped and transported - assuming you know what your orders are and where you are supposed to be.

So tell me why are people thinking everything should have materialized there on Tuesday or even Wednesday?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So tell me why are people thinking everything should have materialized there on Tuesday or even Wednesday?

Because it works. If you cry racism, the government still jumps. Why wouldn't they? It's not their money, and it's the path of least resistence.

At some point, it won't be politically wise to kowtow to professional race baiters like Jackson and Sharpton. At which point, you'll see that strategy disappear over time.

Now Plaquemines Parish (23% black), St. Tammany Parish (10%) and St. Bernard Parish (7%) were hit just as hard, if not harder, than New Orleans. Hancock County, Mississippi (7%) and Harrison County (21%) are pretty much destroyed. Guess who's getting the lion's share of the media attention?

This hurricane, when you count up all the people in the hardest hit areas, affected more whites than blacks. Try hearing that message when you listen to the media coverage.

Remember, CNN and their bretheren make money by sensationalizing the news, grabbing the interest of as many as possible. Here's a new angle on an old story.

The best thing we can do is to continue to support the relief effort as best we can, and hope that the guardsmen and the relief workers are getting to everyone, regardless of race.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Masked

And the worst case scenario for flooding is for a hurricane to pass just east of the city.

Mask, help me out here. It was my understanding that the worst case scenario for any type of storm surge is when the storm passes just WEST as opposed to east. This is because of the storm's counter-clockwise rotation, and the tendency of the eastern side of the storm to push the water forward while the west side pushes it away from the shoreline (in a northerly moving scenario). In fact, there was some relief when Katrina moved a little east and "missed" a direct hit on New Orleans (and it's also why southern Mississippi and Alabama have been obliterated).

If you know different, I'd love to find out why the worst-case scenario is to pass just east of the effected area.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Mask, help me out here. It was my understanding that the worst case scenario for any type of storm surge is when the storm passes just WEST as opposed to east. This is because of the storm's counter-clockwise rotation, and the tendency of the eastern side of the storm to push the water forward while the west side pushes it away from the shoreline (in a northerly moving scenario). In fact, there was some relief when Katrina moved a little east and "missed" a direct hit on New Orleans (and it's also why southern Mississippi and Alabama have been obliterated).

If you know different, I'd love to find out why the worst-case scenario is to pass just east of the effected area.

In the case of New Orleans, worst-case was just east, because the water was pushed into the river, then around into Lake Pontchartrain, then down over the levees, as the hurricane passed. East provided the most flooding.

Typically, as far as winds go, the northeast quadrant of a hurricane is the strongest. So for pure wind damage, passing just to the west of an area is worst case.

For storm surge, generally, being ahead of the northeast quadrant is worst case. That's why Hancock and Harrison counties in Mississippi had their shoreline removed. Then they got nailed with the worst of the winds.

The New Orleans case is almost unique. In most cases where there is specialized flooding, like Mobile, Alabama, it's because surge can funnel into an area through an inlet. So it's still worst case to pass close to the west. In Mobile's case, even being 60-80 miles from the hardest-hit areas wasn't enough to prevent heavy damage. Of course, Katrina was a huge storm in size, and the surge alone caused damage in parts of Florida as well.