The Decline of the Fullback Position

WSUCougar · 10-03-2005, 05:02 PM

You wake up one day and the fullback has become a non-entity in the NFL.

What happened?

I'd like to see the collective NFL brains at FOFC come up with a Top 5 of current NFL fullbacks. It should make for some interesting discussion.

nfg22 · 10-03-2005, 05:06 PM

Mike Alstott...umm...ummm...Jim Kleinsasser....umm...HAH Darly Johnstone...

dawgfan · 10-03-2005, 05:06 PM

Given what the position is in today's NFL, Mack Strong has to be on that list.

stevew · 10-03-2005, 05:08 PM

Kreider.

VPI97 · 10-03-2005, 05:08 PM

I think the top 4 is pretty easy to come up with...

Lorenzo Neal
Justin Griffith
Mack Strong
Cory Schlesinger

After those guys, maybe Tony Richardson...

MikeVic · 10-03-2005, 05:40 PM

It depends on what you want? If it's blocking, Kredier has to be up there maybe?

miami_fan · 10-03-2005, 05:43 PM

In alphabetical order

Jameel Cook
Justin Griffith
Dan Krieder
Lorenzo Neal
Mack Strong

Kleinsasser is a tight end IMO. Alstott is a running back.

I guess I look at the loss of the fullback is the gain of the additional TE or WR. As my list shows, I value the bruising blocker, a couple catches out of the backfield, and a carry or two A YEAR. That really goes against the prevailing offensive philosophy in the NFL today

pennywisesb · 10-03-2005, 05:46 PM

Fred Beasley from San Fran is pretty good as well. I wouldn't leave him off the list.

Raiders Army · 10-03-2005, 05:49 PM

This is an easy game:

Best blocker: Lorenzo Neal (Chargers)/Dan Kreider (Steelers)/Mack Strong (Seahawks)
Best rusher: Mike Alstott (Buccs (sigh)
Best pass-catcher: Patrick Pass (Pats)

Huckleberry · 10-03-2005, 05:59 PM

It's just that most people realized it made little sense to give up an eligible receiver like that.

Tom E · 10-03-2005, 06:02 PM

The game became to fast for a "traditional" FB to be effective.

Wasabiak · 10-03-2005, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Cory Schlesinger. He can run, catch and obliterate a linebacker.

Yeah, when he isn't injured.

mauchow · 10-03-2005, 06:50 PM

Kleinsasser has to be in there. His duty as a Fullback will never end even if he's playing TE. Last year and whenever he played as a tight end, he'd come in motion and be the lead blocker anyways.

Daimyo · 10-03-2005, 07:05 PM

The Colts haven't used a fullback since at least '98 and haven't really missed the position much. I think I'd rather have two good TEs than a good TE and a good FB.

General Mike · 10-03-2005, 07:10 PM

Brian Leonard will redefine the fullback position.

Emiliano · 10-04-2005, 04:55 AM

Fred Beasley
Tony Richardson
Lorenzo Neal
Mack Strong
Jim Kleinsasser

bhlloy · 10-04-2005, 06:20 AM

Two way threats (pass catching and blocking) - Fred Beasley, Tony Richardson, William Henderson, Jim Finn

Pure blocking (my kind of full back) - Cory Schlesinger, Lorenzo Neal, Mack Strong, Dan Kreider, Alan Ricard

Offensive threats - Patrick Pass, Mike Alstott, Najeh Davenport

As people have said before Kleinsasser has no place on this list. He's an H-Back which means he spends very little time as a true fullback.
Alstott is technically a fullback, but his blocking is awful and he doesn't even run the ball much anymore.

cthomer5000 · 10-04-2005, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Mike

Brian Leonard will redefine the fullback position.

I do think the guy is going to have a good pro career, and i have thought so from the minute I saw him play at Rutgers. He seems to run better than Alstott, has outstanding hands, and can block. I hope he actually comes back for a fourth year (I can't believe I'm saying this about a Rutgers player).

Raiders Army · 10-04-2005, 06:58 AM

Aren't most FBs cheaper than a third wideout?

General Mike · 10-04-2005, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Alstott is technically a fullback, but his blocking is awful and he doesn't even run the ball much anymore.

So, he just stands there with his hands in his pockets? Because besides his rookie year, he's never caught the ball.

TroyF · 10-04-2005, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Aren't most FBs cheaper than a third wideout?

Yep, but more often than not they aren't all that productive. You have a few really good blockers and a few with the rare blend of speed/power who can be dominant blockers in the run game.

But for the most part, those guys are rare. With the TE position evolving and more and more players having decent speed/size/hands, the FB position is going to continue to decline in importance.

Samdari · 10-04-2005, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

Fred Beasley from San Fran is pretty good as well. I wouldn't leave him off the list.

He is a backup at FB on his own team.

And Denver's Kyle Johnson is probably among the league's best all-around FB's but does not get mych pub. Can block, run and catch with the best of them.

albionmoonlight · 10-04-2005, 07:59 AM

When Terrell Smith was with the Saints, he was considered one of the best blocking FBs in the league. Then he went to Cleveland, and I have no idea what he is doing now. Playing for New Orleans and Cleveland is not the way to get noticed, so I wanted to throw him out there.

The new guy for the Saints, Mike Karney, is still pretty green, but I think he has the best fullback nickname in the league--Karnivore.

TroyF · 10-04-2005, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

He is a backup at FB on his own team.

And Denver's Kyle Johnson is probably among the league's best all-around FB's but does not get mych pub. Can block, run and catch with the best of them.

Yeah, Kyle is a very good all around player. I'm not sure he does anything exceptional, but he does nearly everything well.

sachmo71 · 10-04-2005, 08:27 AM

Moe Williams used to be a fullback, I believe. He's a pretty good rusher\pass catcher.

rkmsuf · 10-04-2005, 08:35 AM

When was the heyday of the fullback anyway?

cthomer5000 · 10-04-2005, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

When was the heyday of the fullback anyway?

Sometime back "then."

bhlloy · 10-04-2005, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Mike

So, he just stands there with his hands in his pockets? Because besides his rookie year, he's never caught the ball.

No, when he's in the game he still gets a few carries and blocks badly. And his receiving numbers are just below average for a FB, but not anywhere near never catching the ball.

29 catches in 2004... third amongst fullbacks. And 230 yards rushing which was still fifth despite being down by over half on what he used to put up every year(my original point) So I'm not really sure what your point is?

HomerJSimpson · 10-04-2005, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

When was the heyday of the fullback anyway?

Jim Brown was a fullback.

rkmsuf · 10-04-2005, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerJSimpson

Jim Brown was a fullback.

One man does not make a heyday. Maybe a heybrad day, but not a heyday.

Samdari · 10-04-2005, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerJSimpson

Jim Brown was a fullback.

Well, the original naming of the positions dealt with how far back from the line of scrimmage people stood. The "quarterback" was 1/4 of the way back, the halfback halfway, and the fullback all the way. Thus, the fullback was behind the halfback, quite the opposite of how we envision the positions today. The position Brown played was the farthest person behind the LOS at snap and the primary ballcarrier. Comparing him to today's fullbacks is apples/oranges.

Rasmuth · 10-04-2005, 09:54 AM

Larry Csonka...fullback....3 consecutive 1000+ yard seasons (back when it was still a 14 game schedule). At 16 years old he was 6 foot 3, 237 pounds.

PLAYING RECORD
Regular Season NFL

RUSHING RECEIVING TOTALS
Season/Team Games Att Yds TD No Yds TD TD PTS
1968 Miami 11 138 540 6 11 118 1 7 42
1969 Miami 11 131 566 2 21 183 1 3 18
1970 Miami 14 193 874 6 11 94 0 6 36
1971 Miami 14 195 1051 7 13 113 1 8 48
1972 Miami 14 213 1117 6 5 48 0 6 36
1973 Miami 14 219 1003 5 5 22 0 7 42
1974 Miami 12 197 749 9 7 35 0 9 54
1976 NY Giants 12 160 569 4 6 39 0 4 24
1977 NY Giants 14 134 464 1 2 20 0 1 6
1978 NY Giants 14 91 311 6 7 73 0 6 36
1979 Miami 16 220 837 12 16 75 1 13 78

NFL Totals 146 1891 8081 64 104 820 4 70 420

not lined up real well...but it gets the point across...

I miss the bruising fullback/feature back combo

Passacaglia · 10-04-2005, 10:38 AM

Van Brocklin was a fullback -- first player to run for 1000 yards.

dawgfan · 10-04-2005, 10:54 AM

Roger Craig (1st player to record 1,000 yards rushing and 1,000 yards receiving in the same season) was a fullback, at least to start his career.

As recently as the late '80's/early '90's, fullbacks were still potentially a big part of the offense as ball-carriers and not simply blocking backs and safety-valve passing outlets. John L. Williams was a good example of this for the Seahawks.

Marcus Allen spent his first couple of seasons at USC at a FB blocking for Charles White.

Ryche · 10-04-2005, 11:12 AM

I have to admit watching the Falcons use Justin Griffith to lead their running game this last weekend was a lot of fun. It made me wonder why you don't see that more often anymore, especially with the success teams have had using a fullback.

I think a big part of the issue is that it is so hard to find someone who can block, catch and run. At this point in the game, teams have trouble justifying a 'blocking' back who can't catch the football or be a threat to run as well. And everyone wants speed.

Who knows, if Atlanta gets to the Super Bowl, you may see a lot of teams try to copy their success.

Daimyo · 10-04-2005, 11:27 AM

More than anything the decline of the fullback is probably due to the advance of the passing game. Back when teams used to run more than they passed it probably made sense to have two ball carriers lining up together and splitting carries - one guy couldn't possibly carry the whole load and without the threat of an advanced passing game you probably needed the other to block. Now that teams pass more, there are less rushes to spread around and its possible to have a featured back who gets almost all the carries.

For a while teams probably held onto using two backs for tradition even though one had all almost all the carries, but teams have come to realize in the last ten years it doesn't make much sense to keep a second guy out there in regular situations... how much difference can a pure blocking back really make outside the redzone? If you're going to use him as a receiver might as well just line up a TE or a third WR.

Hurst2112 · 10-04-2005, 12:09 PM

Tim Lester was a big part of Bettis' early days as a Steeler. I think they brought him over from the Rams for Jerome.

Karlifornia · 10-04-2005, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

One man does not make a heyday. Maybe a heybrad day, but not a heyday.

This sounds all too Seinfeldian

rkmsuf · 10-04-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioFriendlyUnitShifter

This sounds all too Seinfeldian

I think you just invented a word.

10-03-2005, 05:08 PM	#5
VPI97 Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Kennesaw, GA	I think the top 4 is pretty easy to come up with... Lorenzo Neal Justin Griffith Mack Strong Cory Schlesinger After those guys, maybe Tony Richardson... __________________ CT & Jivin - "Surprisingly Entertaining"

10-03-2005, 05:46 PM	#8
pennywisesb College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, California	Fred Beasley from San Fran is pretty good as well. I wouldn't leave him off the list. __________________ Myspace Profile

10-03-2005, 05:59 PM	#10
Huckleberry College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001	It's just that most people realized it made little sense to give up an eligible receiver like that. __________________ The one thing all your failed relationships have in common is you. The Barking Carnival (Longhorn-centered sports blog) College Football Adjusted Stats and Ratings

10-03-2005, 06:02 PM	#11
Tom E H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Livermore, CA	The game became to fast for a "traditional" FB to be effective. __________________ Be Polite Be Proffesional And Be Ready to Kill... I'll Never Forget What's Her Name... A Democrat is Somebody who Knows the Issues, a Republican is Somebody who Understands the Issues...

10-03-2005, 07:10 PM	#15
General Mike Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The State of Rutgers	Brian Leonard will redefine the fullback position. __________________ Boise Stampede Continental Football League Jacksonville Jaguars GM North American Football League Nebraska Coach FOFC-BBCF Rutgers & Washington coach Bowl Bound-BBCF

10-03-2005, 05:06 PM	#2
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	Mike Alstott...umm...ummm...Jim Kleinsasser....umm...HAH Darly Johnstone...

10-03-2005, 05:06 PM	#3
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Given what the position is in today's NFL, Mack Strong has to be on that list.

10-03-2005, 05:08 PM	#4
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Kreider.

10-03-2005, 05:40 PM	#6
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	It depends on what you want? If it's blocking, Kredier has to be up there maybe?

10-03-2005, 05:43 PM	#7
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	In alphabetical order Jameel Cook Justin Griffith Dan Krieder Lorenzo Neal Mack Strong Kleinsasser is a tight end IMO. Alstott is a running back. I guess I look at the loss of the fullback is the gain of the additional TE or WR. As my list shows, I value the bruising blocker, a couple catches out of the backfield, and a carry or two A YEAR. That really goes against the prevailing offensive philosophy in the NFL today

10-03-2005, 05:49 PM	#9
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	This is an easy game: Best blocker: Lorenzo Neal (Chargers)/Dan Kreider (Steelers)/Mack Strong (Seahawks) Best rusher: Mike Alstott (Buccs (sigh) Best pass-catcher: Patrick Pass (Pats)

10-03-2005, 06:50 PM	#13
mauchow Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Murfreesboro, TN	Kleinsasser has to be in there. His duty as a Fullback will never end even if he's playing TE. Last year and whenever he played as a tight end, he'd come in motion and be the lead blocker anyways.

10-03-2005, 07:05 PM	#14
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	The Colts haven't used a fullback since at least '98 and haven't really missed the position much. I think I'd rather have two good TEs than a good TE and a good FB.

10-04-2005, 04:55 AM	#16
Emiliano College Prospect Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nuremberg, Germany	Fred Beasley Tony Richardson Lorenzo Neal Mack Strong Jim Kleinsasser __________________ Xbox Live&PSN: Emiliano81 GM of the Rome Gladiators in the WOOF

10-04-2005, 06:20 AM	#17
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	Two way threats (pass catching and blocking) - Fred Beasley, Tony Richardson, William Henderson, Jim Finn Pure blocking (my kind of full back) - Cory Schlesinger, Lorenzo Neal, Mack Strong, Dan Kreider, Alan Ricard Offensive threats - Patrick Pass, Mike Alstott, Najeh Davenport As people have said before Kleinsasser has no place on this list. He's an H-Back which means he spends very little time as a true fullback. Alstott is technically a fullback, but his blocking is awful and he doesn't even run the ball much anymore.

10-04-2005, 06:58 AM	#19
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Aren't most FBs cheaper than a third wideout?

10-04-2005, 07:59 AM	#23
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	When Terrell Smith was with the Saints, he was considered one of the best blocking FBs in the league. Then he went to Cleveland, and I have no idea what he is doing now. Playing for New Orleans and Cleveland is not the way to get noticed, so I wanted to throw him out there. The new guy for the Saints, Mike Karney, is still pretty green, but I think he has the best fullback nickname in the league--Karnivore.

10-04-2005, 08:27 AM	#25
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Moe Williams used to be a fullback, I believe. He's a pretty good rusher\pass catcher.

10-04-2005, 08:35 AM	#26
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	When was the heyday of the fullback anyway? __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

10-04-2005, 09:54 AM	#32
Rasmuth n00b Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Churchville, NY	Larry Csonka...fullback....3 consecutive 1000+ yard seasons (back when it was still a 14 game schedule). At 16 years old he was 6 foot 3, 237 pounds. PLAYING RECORD Regular Season NFL RUSHING RECEIVING TOTALS Season/Team Games Att Yds TD No Yds TD TD PTS 1968 Miami 11 138 540 6 11 118 1 7 42 1969 Miami 11 131 566 2 21 183 1 3 18 1970 Miami 14 193 874 6 11 94 0 6 36 1971 Miami 14 195 1051 7 13 113 1 8 48 1972 Miami 14 213 1117 6 5 48 0 6 36 1973 Miami 14 219 1003 5 5 22 0 7 42 1974 Miami 12 197 749 9 7 35 0 9 54 1976 NY Giants 12 160 569 4 6 39 0 4 24 1977 NY Giants 14 134 464 1 2 20 0 1 6 1978 NY Giants 14 91 311 6 7 73 0 6 36 1979 Miami 16 220 837 12 16 75 1 13 78 NFL Totals 146 1891 8081 64 104 820 4 70 420 not lined up real well...but it gets the point across... I miss the bruising fullback/feature back combo

10-04-2005, 10:38 AM	#33
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Van Brocklin was a fullback -- first player to run for 1000 yards.

10-04-2005, 10:54 AM	#34
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Roger Craig (1st player to record 1,000 yards rushing and 1,000 yards receiving in the same season) was a fullback, at least to start his career. As recently as the late '80's/early '90's, fullbacks were still potentially a big part of the offense as ball-carriers and not simply blocking backs and safety-valve passing outlets. John L. Williams was a good example of this for the Seahawks. Marcus Allen spent his first couple of seasons at USC at a FB blocking for Charles White.

10-04-2005, 11:12 AM	#35
Ryche College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO, USA	I have to admit watching the Falcons use Justin Griffith to lead their running game this last weekend was a lot of fun. It made me wonder why you don't see that more often anymore, especially with the success teams have had using a fullback. I think a big part of the issue is that it is so hard to find someone who can block, catch and run. At this point in the game, teams have trouble justifying a 'blocking' back who can't catch the football or be a threat to run as well. And everyone wants speed. Who knows, if Atlanta gets to the Super Bowl, you may see a lot of teams try to copy their success. __________________ Some knots are better left untied.

10-04-2005, 11:27 AM	#36
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	More than anything the decline of the fullback is probably due to the advance of the passing game. Back when teams used to run more than they passed it probably made sense to have two ball carriers lining up together and splitting carries - one guy couldn't possibly carry the whole load and without the threat of an advanced passing game you probably needed the other to block. Now that teams pass more, there are less rushes to spread around and its possible to have a featured back who gets almost all the carries. For a while teams probably held onto using two backs for tradition even though one had all almost all the carries, but teams have come to realize in the last ten years it doesn't make much sense to keep a second guy out there in regular situations... how much difference can a pure blocking back really make outside the redzone? If you're going to use him as a receiver might as well just line up a TE or a third WR. Last edited by Daimyo : 10-04-2005 at 11:29 AM.

10-04-2005, 12:09 PM	#37
Hurst2112 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Minneapolis	Tim Lester was a big part of Bettis' early days as a Steeler. I think they brought him over from the Rams for Jerome. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/longliveanalog

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