Martin/Incognito Thread

[Radii]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The texts from Martin to his parents just rip my heart out.

Big +1 here.

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

In a politically correct world, I never really expected anything else.

Richie Incognito kept a fine book for OL kangaroo court. On 11/3, he texted players “They’re going to suspend me. Please destroy fine book”

One lineman, Nate Garner, was subjected to so much derision that a joke developed that Garner, who owned several guns, might “break” by coming to the Dolphins facility and shooting everyone. On September 30, 2013, for example, Incognito wrote a text message to a former teammate in which he stated: “Nate is on the verge of killing us all.” When asked to elaborate, Incognito explained: “Since we cut [another player] we have been non stop on nate. Even turner is in on it. He looks like he’s about to cry 24/7.”

In the hours after Martin left the Dolphins, Incognito recorded in the fine book a $200 penalty against himself for “breaking Jmart,” awarded Garner a $250 bonus for “not cracking first,” and wrote down the following fines for Martin: 100 pussy 100 pussy 100 pussy 100 pussy 1,000,000.00 pussy
Incognito acknowledged that the entries in question all relate to Martin’s decision to leave the team. At first Incognito claimed that he did not know why he had been fined for “breaking J mart,” but upon being told that the notations appeared to be in his handwriting, Incognito did not dispute that “breaking Jmart” meant causing Martin to have an emotional reaction in response to taunting

Yeah, thats totally on Martin. Incognito isn't the problem at ALL.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

So they are wrong then?

Haven't seen any details, my comment simply noted that no other outcome seemed likely regardless of what actually occurred.

[jbergey22]

Dolphins do a poor job of running their boot camp.

I dont have a problem with the veterans tearing the younger players down a bit to keep their egos in check but they just went too far in this case.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by chadritt

Richie Incognito kept a fine book for OL kangaroo court. On 11/3, he texted players “They’re going to suspend me. Please destroy fine book”

One lineman, Nate Garner, was subjected to so much derision that a joke developed that Garner, who owned several guns, might “break” by coming to the Dolphins facility and shooting everyone. On September 30, 2013, for example, Incognito wrote a text message to a former teammate in which he stated: “Nate is on the verge of killing us all.” When asked to elaborate, Incognito explained: “Since we cut [another player] we have been non stop on nate. Even turner is in on it. He looks like he’s about to cry 24/7.”

In the hours after Martin left the Dolphins, Incognito recorded in the fine book a $200 penalty against himself for “breaking Jmart,” awarded Garner a $250 bonus for “not cracking first,” and wrote down the following fines for Martin: 100 pussy 100 pussy 100 pussy 100 pussy 1,000,000.00 pussy
Incognito acknowledged that the entries in question all relate to Martin’s decision to leave the team. At first Incognito claimed that he did not know why he had been fined for “breaking J mart,” but upon being told that the notations appeared to be in his handwriting, Incognito did not dispute that “breaking Jmart” meant causing Martin to have an emotional reaction in response to taunting

Yeah, thats totally on Martin. Incognito isn't the problem at ALL.

I really believe in that culture, this would have been a better response that the one that Martin took. Not the politically correct response, but the more appropriate response give the culture.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by korme

The Worst Stuff From The Dolphins Investigation [Updating]

I tend to side with Incognito on all of this. Yeah, he's a dick and a douche, but he's a 6'5 300 something athlete with everything handed to him on a silver platter all life. Of course he's going to have immature conversations. And Martin seemed to play along, 90% of the time. And then all of the sudden, without warning, it was a problem?

Deciding it's too much and leaving the team all of a sudden doesn't mean it all of a sudden became a problem.

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Haven't seen any details, my comment simply noted that no other outcome seemed likely regardless of what actually occurred.

You should probably at least read The Worst Stuff From The Miami Dolphins Investigation before you say its just because of PC culture.

[SirFozzie]

Nothing like a fine book (ie, a book of players being fined for breaking Offensive Line rules) where you repeatedly call someone a pussy.

(oh, and Icognito knew this was damning.. when he first got suspended he texted another player and begged them to destroy the evidence. They didn't.)

Then again, considering the lack of success from the Dolphins O-line last year, I'm not surprised they got..

(puts on sunglasses, CSI style)

caught holding.

Dolphins Line Kept A "Fine Book"; Incognito Tried To Destroy Evidence

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Then again, considering the lack of success from the Dolphins O-line last year, I'm not surprised they got..

(puts on sunglasses, CSI style)

caught holding.

YYYEEEEEAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by chadritt

You should probably at least read The Worst Stuff From The Miami Dolphins Investigation before you say its just because of PC culture.

Didn't say it was purely because of that, I said that I expected no other outcome regardless of what the reality was because of that. There IS a difference in the two statements.

My observation was essentially that the comment (originally made here) that the report backed Martin's side of the story was about as surprising as an expose declaring that water was wet.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Then again, considering the lack of success from the Dolphins O-line last year, I'm not surprised they got..

(puts on sunglasses, CSI style)

caught holding.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by chadritt

You should probably at least read The Worst Stuff From The Miami Dolphins Investigation before you say its just because of PC culture.

Having now read it ... I think the trainer stuff is probably the most damning, the second lineman next (there's at least a chance there's more to that story same as with Martin), with Martin (given other evidence not listed here) still coming off as an opportunist looking for an out more than anything else.

[miami_fan]

Jim Turner may want to get that resume ready

[jeff061]

I'm left wondering how the hell Martin ever kept it together long enough to get to the pros.

[chadritt]

Maybe the Stanford locker room was a less hostile place? I mean...just maybe this stuff isn't the norm.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by chadritt

Maybe the Stanford locker room was a less hostile place? I mean...just maybe this stuff isn't the norm.

Yeah, he apparently had issues in High School but those issues did not seem to follow him to Stanford.

Probably says more about the environment, and the type of collegiate athlete, at Stanford compared to most places.

On the whole...while I do think he had significant stress from Incognito & others...I also think his timing is (likely poor word choice) interesting. Sort of a chicken/egg thing perhaps regarding performance vs verbal stress.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Yeah, he apparently had issues in High School but those issues did not seem to follow him to Stanford.

Probably says more about the environment, and the type of collegiate athlete, at Stanford compared to most places.

On the whole...while I do think he had significant stress from Incognito & others...I also think his timing is (likely poor word choice) interesting. Sort of a chicken/egg thing perhaps regarding performance vs verbal stress.

I think the biggest issue is he admits himself he is socially awkward. Obviously, Incognito and the others couldnt see this and make him feel more comfortable. It is one thing to teach a youngster a few lessons along the way but completely different to make him feel like an outcast and constantly putting him in uncomfortable situations.

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I think the biggest issue is he admits himself he is socially awkward. Obviously, Incognito and the others couldnt see this and make him feel more comfortable.

This i disagree on. I can't believe nobody noticed that Incognito, Jerry, and Pouncey were making people, not just Martin, uncomfortable and that he was crossing lines.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by chadritt

This i disagree on. I can't believe nobody noticed that Incognito was making people, not just Martin, uncomfortable and that he was crossing lines.

Passive compliance is a huge factor in social psychology. It's why people can stand around while something bad is going on and not step in and do something. This whole team is a perfect example of it.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I think the biggest issue is he admits himself he is socially awkward. Obviously, Incognito and the others couldnt see this and make him feel more comfortable. It is one thing to teach a youngster a few lessons along the way but completely different to make him feel like an outcast and constantly putting him in uncomfortable situations.

Well, I guess it depends on how we define socially awkward.

JM seems self aware to know that he isnt sure how to handle some social situations whereas RI might not have any "issues" in his mind, is that because he is hopelessly not self aware? And does that make him any less socially awkward than JM?

IDK...its a complicated topic with a lot of layers to it. In the end, its a business decision for the NFL (and Dolphins to an extent) as to the level of workplace behavior that will be tolerable and the type of atmosphere they want. If for no other reason, I kind of see how this report could not state anything but what the NFL wants it to state (i.e. we are a gentleman's game...not a barbarian's).

[nol]

Originally Posted by chadritt

This i disagree on. I can't believe nobody noticed that Incognito, Jerry, and Pouncey were making people, not just Martin, uncomfortable and that he was crossing lines.

The evidence shows that while Martin was waiting in line for food, Incognito called out to him from the table, saying that Martin was a "stinky Pakistani" who should not join the group. According to Martin, a fellow player standing near him in line overheard the comment and said "get them off your back." Martin said that this episode further demonstrated to him that his teammates witnessed how he was routinely demeaned by the rest of the offensive line and observed that he was not standing up for himself, and he promised himself that if the linemen did one more thing, he would leave. Moments later, at Incognito's urging, all of the linemen sitting at the table got up and walked away when Martin arrived. For Martin, the cafeteria incident was the last straw. He slammed his tray of food on the floor and left the Dolphins facility.

They also talked to Harbaugh in the report and he said he didn't feel that the 49ers' locker room atmosphere was demonstrably different than Stanford's.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Well, I guess it depends on how we define socially awkward.

JM seems self aware to know that he isnt sure how to handle some social situations whereas RI might not have any "issues" in his mind, is that because he is hopelessly not self aware? And does that make him any less socially awkward than JM?

IDK...its a complicated topic with a lot of layers to it. In the end, its a business decision for the NFL (and Dolphins to an extent) as to the level of workplace behavior that will be tolerable and the type of atmosphere they want. If for no other reason, I kind of see how this report could not state anything but what the NFL wants it to state (i.e. we are a gentleman's game...not a barbarian's).

This is well put. I think many of us would actually see Incognito to be the socially awkward one in this situation. I know from a personal level I wouldnt be able to stand the guy whether he was joking or not.

[Julio Riddols]

I personally would have told Incognito to chill the hell out, but at this point I feel slapped in the face for thinking this was totally a Martin money grab. I am more inclined to believe Martin just didn't have the balls or tools or sense to go to his superiors who should be more than ready to ensure their team is operating at its best emotionally as well as physically. Incognito is only a slightly bigger douche than I thought he was, but I lose almost all compassion for him with the info finally all laid on the table. Have to wonder if the other lineman has a case now.

[flere-imsaho]

Everyone needs to read this: Why Non-Assholes Always Want To Prove Themselves To Assholes

Think what you may of him, but Drew Magary hits it on the head here. It's about bullying culture, and the victims of bullying often don't react in the way we'd hope they would, or even in a way that would seem rational.

And this is completely misunderstood by people who have never been bullied.


And fuck the notion of the NFL locker room being some kind of "special place" where the normal rules of society don't apply. It's a place of work in an industry which happens to be entertainment. Places of work as diverse as offices to oil rigs to stage companies all have rules about appropriate behavior which, when not enforced, tend eventually to have severe consequences. The NFL, it's players, and its locker rooms are not unique snowflakes.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

This is well put. I think many of us would actually see Incognito to be the socially awkward one in this situation. I know from a personal level I wouldnt be able to stand the guy whether he was joking or not.

He has always elicited this reaction, going back to when he played HS ball here in AZ. Stuff I heard about him just from guys in my coaching circles was unbelievable. It is an attitude that has never been checked and it is now what he would consider normal, which is far from how most others see him.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Everyone needs to read this: Why Non-Assholes Always Want To Prove Themselves To Assholes

Think what you may of him, but Drew Magary hits it on the head here. It's about bullying culture, and the victims of bullying often don't react in the way we'd hope they would, or even in a way that would seem rational.

And this is completely misunderstood by people who have never been bullied.


And fuck the notion of the NFL locker room being some kind of "special place" where the normal rules of society don't apply. It's a place of work in an industry which happens to be entertainment. Places of work as diverse as offices to oil rigs to stage companies all have rules about appropriate behavior which, when not enforced, tend eventually to have severe consequences. The NFL, it's players, and its locker rooms are not unique snowflakes.

I think you hit it on the head. These are idiots who substitute bullying for "team building." Break you down with no build back up.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

IDK...its a complicated topic with a lot of layers to it.

So it's like an onion ... it stinks.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Bobble

So it's like an onion ... it stinks.

Well, it definitely stinks and there are assholes involved so....

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Everyone needs to read this: Why Non-Assholes Always Want To Prove Themselves To Assholes

Think what you may of him, but Drew Magary hits it on the head here. It's about bullying culture, and the victims of bullying often don't react in the way we'd hope they would, or even in a way that would seem rational.

And this is completely misunderstood by people who have never been bullied.


And fuck the notion of the NFL locker room being some kind of "special place" where the normal rules of society don't apply. It's a place of work in an industry which happens to be entertainment. Places of work as diverse as offices to oil rigs to stage companies all have rules about appropriate behavior which, when not enforced, tend eventually to have severe consequences. The NFL, it's players, and its locker rooms are not unique snowflakes.

This is to a point exactly what I've been saying. Solid piece.

[cartman]

So, evidently Incognito took a baseball bat to his own Ferrari last night.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by cartman

So, evidently Incognito took a baseball bat to his own Ferrari last night.

Solid move- he should totally destroy all his assets since he has that big contract coming his way.

[Lathum]

Richie Incognito of Miami Dolphins damaged own car with baseball bat - ESPN

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

@RyanCrinnigan @ChrisBurke_SI I'll go cry in my new Ferrari

— Richie Incognito (@68INCOGNITO) February 12, 2014

[Solecismic]

Someone should try pitching "son of prominent labor lawyer becomes roommates with insane former fraternity prankster. Hijinks abound." as a new show for the 2014-15 season. Maybe they solve crimes together. Or maybe they adopt a funny alien. I see Zooey Deschanel playing someone's sidekick and many Sara Rue guest bits. But perhaps this is too much even for Hollywood.

[Julio Riddols]

Rob Riggle and Paul Rudd star as Rich and Jon in "Miami Guys", the new animated show airing after Bob's Burgers Sundays this fall on FOX.

[PilotMan]

Martin to the Niners.

http://news.yahoo.com/49ers-acquire-...8943--spt.html

San Francisco then confirmed the trade, saying only that it would send an undisclosed draft choice to Miami and that Martin still must pass a physical to complete the deal.

[sterlingice]

Looks like they both found jobs, then

‘The Onion’ Offers Richie Incognito A 5-Year, $50 Million Contract | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

SI

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Jim Turner may want to get that resume ready

Jim Turner, former Miami Dolphins OL coach, to file defamation lawsuit against attorney Ted Wells