Malaysia Airlines Flight 370

[cartman]

The Aussies might have found something in their search zone.

MH370: two objects may have been found in Australian search zone - live | World news | theguardian.com

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cartman

How would they be much different than Aer Lingus, which is another low cost long haul airline based out of Ireland? If they get FAR 129 designation, would also they then have to adhere to FAR 121 regs?

Well for one, Lingus actually operates out of Ireland, which this airline doesn't have any plans on that. They only want to be registered there. Lingus uses their own pilots, that work for the company. This company won't do that either. They are going to contract the pilots through a third party to fly their planes. These pilots are based in southeast Asia as contract pilots. And would be subject to the training requirements and regulations of that area. It's a big deal because it's not the way that this kind of business was designed to operate.

I don't have a fast answer for you on the part question. Sorry.

[mckerney]

CNN considers whether a black hole swallowed the missing Malaysian plane | The Verge

No, bad. Bad CNN!

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by mckerney

CNN considers whether a black hole swallowed the missing Malaysian plane | The Verge

No, bad. Bad CNN!

Was it caused by the Illuminati using the Large Hadron Collider?

SI

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by mckerney

CNN considers whether a black hole swallowed the missing Malaysian plane | The Verge

No, bad. Bad CNN!

Too late, they had some woman on there today taking apart a plastic model trying to show how planes break apart.

1. She was an idiot.
2. It was in very poor taste.

[JediKooter]

So CNN has become part of the History Channel.

[stevew]

How many barges would be required to make a makeshift runway? I believe they are roughly 200' by 35'. Runway length required is supposedly 8k feet roughly. If you wanted to just bellyflop the plane, would 10(1000' by 70') be enough? Surely towed barges disappear all the time. You sink the barges and the plane and capture all the crew/passengers. I know this didn't happen but could it happen?

[CU Tiger]

[EagleFan]

Yes, this is just wrong...

[Sun Tzu]

Pff. I was making "LOST" jokes two pages ago.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by stevew

How many barges would be required to make a makeshift runway? I believe they are roughly 200' by 35'. Runway length required is supposedly 8k feet roughly. If you wanted to just bellyflop the plane, would 10(1000' by 70') be enough? Surely towed barges disappear all the time. You sink the barges and the plane and capture all the crew/passengers. I know this didn't happen but could it happen?

200 hectarbarges to the liter

[Edward64]

I feel so sad for the relatives. Ups, downs, false leads, unknowns, endless speculations etc.

China has new images showing large object in southern Indian Ocean - CNN.com

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia (CNN) -- China announced that it has satellite images of a large object floating in the search area for the missing Malaysia Airlines plane, but Australian-led search teams found no sign of it Saturday.

Another day of intense searches by air and sea concluded for the night with no new clues to give families answers about the fate of the passengers and crew.

I'm all for this.

Flyht: The $100,000 live-streaming black box - Mar. 21, 2014

When Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 disappeared two weeks ago, evidence about what went wrong vanished with it. Any answers are likely trapped in the flight data recorder.

But in a time when we stream Netflix (NFLX) on our laptops, get music instantly on our phones, and use Wi-Fi on our airplanes, why can't we get that data in real time?

The technology already exists.

Canadian company Flyht Aerospace Solutions makes the Automated Flight Information System, or AFIRS, which automatically monitors data such as location, altitude, and performance.
:
:
On a normal flight, the system would send updates every five to 10 minutes. It can be programmed to recognize when something is wrong, such as a deviation in flight path, and automatically begin streaming second-by-second data.

[Buccaneer]

I guess I got too spoiled by fictional accounts of satellites being closer to real-time instead of a lag of multiple days.

[kcchief19]

I'm sure they are real-time, but I'm assuming satellite images are getting scanned by the military of their respective countries first and scrubbed for any information they don't want anyone else to know, then they start looking for the plane.

[cartman]

Sounds like the officials have acknowledged that the plane has indeed crashed in the Indian Ocean. They have informed the relatives of this.

MH370 assumed to have crashed with no survivors, says Malaysia Airlines - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

[Draft Dodger]

probably true...but man the Malaysian officials seem to be about as reliable as this guy

[Buccaneer]

I would be curious as to what was the analysis the British satellite did.

[PilotMan]

The interesting news to me now is that the government is now going back on the information that the FMS was reprogrammed prior to the last radio transmission.

What this means to me is that it seems much more plausible that an event occurred that incapacitated the crew and the plane just few off into the ocean until it ran out of fuel.

[Draft Dodger]

so, if I understand correctly, we're back to something along the lines of

pilots sign off with Malaysia
something bad happens
pilots turn back towards the nearest airport
bad thing incapacitates the crew and plane goes until it runs out of fuel?

[PilotMan]

Not saying that's what happened, but it makes that a more plausible event.

Pilots sign off
Event happens
they troubleshoot
Make a turn toward an airport
more trouble shooting
make another turn (because where they are looking that plane would have had to turn more than once.)
crew incapacitated
plane flies on until it runs out of fuel.

So what might cause this?

Fires.
Fires can lead to a whole mess of trouble. Including depressurization, smoke, structural.
There has already been a mention of Li-ion batteries. The plane has a good fire suppression system. Much different than what brought the UPS 747 down in Dubai (I had known the FO on that plane from when we were both students and instructors in Florida.) That plane didn't have really any fire suppression in the main cabin. Still even with that Li-ion batteries can be nasty and could certainly be a finger to point at.

General depressurization
Yes there is lots of oxygen and generators and warning systems too. So this shouldn't have been the main issue. Payne Stewart's plane crashed because the cabin altitude alerter was broken. That probably didn't happen here.

I still think that the pilots are the primary focus since they have all the responsibility and controls and are still the most simple explanation.

[cartman]

What I don't get is if the FMS wasn't changed, and there was an event that incapacitated the crew, I don't see how the plane would continue flying at a consistent altitude and path with no one at the controls and the auto-pilot off for several hours.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cartman

What I don't get is if the FMS wasn't changed, and there was an event that incapacitated the crew, I don't see how the plane would continue flying at a consistent altitude and path with no one at the controls and the auto-pilot off for several hours.

We were saying earlier that if it had been reprogrammed prior to the hand-off that would change everything. It would suggest prior intent to act on something. If they back off of that now it brings the idea of an emergency back into the fold.

The FMS was absolutely changed. But the timing of it is now in question. The points can be pre-programmed at any time. In an emergency you would set up the plane to fly where you wanted it to go while to paid attention to other things. Remember a pilot's priority is to fly the plane, then navigate, then communicate. Sometimes #1 and #2 are all you can do and you never get to #3. It does happen though, we do it in the sim quite a bit.

Say the plane get's all set up and you are trying to fix the emergency and are suddenly incapacitated. The plane will fly its last heading/power setting forever. They had a lot of fuel. It's conceivable.

[cartman]

Unfortunately we'll never know what the pilots were saying during the time the plane stopped heading towards Beijing, since the cockpit voice recorder is on a 2 hour loop. So anything they find on the flight data recorder will have to be a guess as to why things happened the way they did.

[PilotMan]

Yes and no. You're right that it's on a loop, however I'm pretty sure that someone good with data recovery might be able to get something off of it. It's my understanding that like any hard disk, even deleted data is recoverable in some fashion.

[Groundhog]

The British seem to have reason to think suicide now.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

The British seem to have reason to think suicide now.

Found the linkage.

Malaysia Airlines crash: Suicide mission theory of MH370 investigators - Telegraph

[Groundhog]

Not a lot of details, but the key quote:

The team investigating the Boeing 777’s disappearance believe no malfunction or fire was capable of causing the aircraft’s unusual flight or the disabling of its communications system before it veered wildly off course on a seven-hour silent flight into the sea. An analysis of the flight’s routing, signalling and communications shows that it was flown “in a rational way”.

An official source told The Telegraph that investigators believe “this has been a deliberate act by someone on board who had to have had the detailed knowledge to do what was done ... Nothing is emerging that points to motive.”


Asked about the possibility of a plane malfunction or an on-board fire, the source said: “It just does not hinge together... [The investigators] have gone through processes you do to get the plane where it flew to for eight hours. They point to it being flown in a rational way.”

[cartman]

They have a better idea than before of just where the plane might be, but the search area is still very remote and very large. This pic helps put things into scale.

[Edward64]

If it wasn't a catastrophic event and it was rogue pilot, wouldn't the cabin crew or passengers have done something? Is there a way to incapacitate everyone in the passenger cabin?

You would think at the very least the cabin crew would have tried something.

Even with reinforced doors, I kinda believe that it can be broken down after x hours.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

If it wasn't a catastrophic event and it was rogue pilot, wouldn't the cabin crew or passengers have done something? Is there a way to incapacitate everyone in the passenger cabin?

You would think at the very least the cabin crew would have tried something.

Even with reinforced doors, I kinda believe that it can be broken down after x hours.

That's where the reported altitude change could come into play.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

If it wasn't a catastrophic event and it was rogue pilot, wouldn't the cabin crew or passengers have done something? Is there a way to incapacitate everyone in the passenger cabin?

You would think at the very least the cabin crew would have tried something.

Even with reinforced doors, I kinda believe that it can be broken down after x hours.

You know that's a good question. Let's look at this hypothetically. If a rouge pilot had done something there would have been a fight in the cockpit first of all. But the cabin crew may not have known anything about it at all. The plane is loud and they may have thought something was up, but could've dismissed it. They call up, someone answers tells them it's all fine and they don't know anything. It was night out and unless the plane was outfitted with tv's and the "where are we now" feature nobody would have know that they weren't flying to China. I question the information about the altitude's that they say the plane was flying at. Let's just say that I'm skeptical. But it doesn't necessarily mean anything anyway. I think what we know is that the plane flew a long time and ended up far away in the Indian Ocean. To me that means that it didn't waste a whole lot of fuel going up and down and pretty much flew a standard planned altitude profile. If it had flown much lower or done a lot of deviations it wouldn't have made it that far.

Is there any way to incapacitate everyone in the cabin? Absolutely. All that needs to be done is the modify the cabin pressure in the plane. The oxygen masks will drop, but they only have about 15 min of air. There are some tanks in the back, but after an hour depressurized at 35k feet there wouldn't be too many people left and a pilot could repressurize the plane again. I'm certainly not saying that's what happened but speaking hypothetically it's possible.

I can't really get into the specifics of the door itself. Except to say that if a pilot was conscious upfront there really isn't anything you can do to get the door open. It's just not happening.

I have no idea what door this particular plane had except that I believe that it had to be the newer reinforced doors that all the US planes have now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of debris apparently spotted by satellite.....

Satellite spots 122 objects in search for missing Malaysian jet | Fox News

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I can't really get into the specifics of the door itself. Except to say that if a pilot was conscious upfront there really isn't anything you can do to get the door open. It's just not happening.

I have no idea what door this particular plane had except that I believe that it had to be the newer reinforced doors that all the US planes have now.

Really? That's a little scary in and of itself....

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Really? That's a little scary in and of itself....

We are the good guys. The point is to keep the bad guys out.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

We are the good guys. The point is to keep the bad guys out.

Unless there's a not-good pilot up there. Or there's something crazy that goes on and incapacitates the pilot & copilot...

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Unless there's a not-good pilot up there. Or there's something crazy that goes on and incapacitates the pilot & copilot...

There are alternatives in the event of total pilot incapacitation. But would the door really matter if there was a bad pilot up there? I mean they already have total control of the plane from the outset.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

There are alternatives in the event of total pilot incapacitation. But would the door really matter if there was a bad pilot up there? I mean they already have total control of the plane from the outset.

You're right. I was thinking more of total pilot incapacitation to be honest.

[molson]

The advantages of living in such a litigious society, with well-established tort law.

MH370 Families Might Get Millions, If They're American - NBC News

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I can't really get into the specifics of the door itself. Except to say that if a pilot was conscious upfront there really isn't anything you can do to get the door open. It's just not happening.

I have no idea what door this particular plane had except that I believe that it had to be the newer reinforced doors that all the US planes have now.

Originally Posted by PilotMan

There are alternatives in the event of total pilot incapacitation. But would the door really matter if there was a bad pilot up there? I mean they already have total control of the plane from the outset.

Kinda curious here if you're allowed to talk about that. Is there like a button the crew can press requesting to enter the cockpit that will automatically unlock the door if there is no response in X minutes? Is it somehow hooked up to a pilot's heart rate?

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Even with reinforced doors, I kinda believe that it can be broken down after x hours.

I hope not. If it can be broken down over the course of a long haul flight with the materials you would find in a plane cabin then I don't fancy its chances when a terrorist comes along prepared.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Kinda curious here if you're allowed to talk about that. Is there like a button the crew can press requesting to enter the cockpit that will automatically unlock the door if there is no response in X minutes? Is it somehow hooked up to a pilot's heart rate?

There are a few vague comments about the procedure here.

What happened to MH370? A pilot and a flight attendant give their views | World news | theguardian.com

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

There are a few vague comments about the procedure here.

What happened to MH370? A pilot and a flight attendant give their views | World news | theguardian.com

Yeah, that's about it. I can't really add anymore to that.

[cartman]

It is amazing to me just how much shit they are finding on the satellite images that turns out to be stuff that has fallen off of container or cargo ships.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Yeah, that's about it. I can't really add anymore to that.

Makes sense.

[Edward64]

Don't want to get my hopes up considering all the false leads and messed up search.

Report: Chinese ship hears pulse signal in south Indian Ocean - CNN.com

(CNN) -- A Chinese patrol ship looking for signs of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in the southern Indian Ocean discovered Saturday a pulse signal with a frequency of 37.5 kHz, state news agency Xinhua reported.

"That is the standard beacon frequency" for both so-called black boxes -- the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder, said Anish Patel, president of pinger manufacturer Dukane Seacom.

"They're identical."

[cartman]

This really helps to put the depth of the Indian Ocean into perspective.

The depth of the problem - The Washington Post

[flere-imsaho]

Wow.

Also amazing that there's a whale that can survive at almost 2 miles down.

[cartman]

Another strange twist in the case.

MH370 passengers have had £20,000 cash withdrawn from their accounts | Mail Online

[bhlloy]

Maybe a bit strange, although I would have thought it was more likely to be somebody who knew four of the victims (or even just got their details from all the coverage) and thought that maybe nobody would notice dead peoples money going missing than anything sinister

[cartman]

One of the things that seemed strange to me was the transfer from three of the missing into the account of a fourth. Maybe they thought it would leave less of a trail pulling everything from one account, rather than 4.