The OFFICIAL 2009 NFL Offseason Thread - What else comes in 3's? Firing OC's!

[DeToxRox]

Because when you're a Lions fan, it's always the offseason.

But really, with all the draft news and coaching positions being discussed, it all has to do with the off season.

First real note of interest:

REPORT: PATS TO FRANCHISE CASSEL
Posted by Mike Florio on January 2, 2009, 10:47 a.m.

With New England quarterback Matt Cassel set to become a free agent — and with two key current members of the organization, offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels and V.P. of player personnel Scott Pioli, possibly heading to new teams — the Patriots are prepared to slap the franchise tag on Cassel.

Former NFL exec Mike Lombardi said on the most recent edition of Showtime’s Inside the NFL that the move will be made.

“The Patriots are way too smart, and I’ve talked to people in the organization,” said Lombardi, via the Providence Journal. “They are going to franchise Matt Cassel. He’s an asset, and they can control their ability to trade him if they franchise him.”

Though the move will result in the quarterback position commanding upwards of $26 million in cap space for 2009, it’s the right decision, regardless of whether it’s a hedge against Tom Brady not being healthy or it’s a strategy for getting something of value in exchange for Cassel.

The franchise tender for Cassel will be based upon the average of the five highest-paid quarterbacks in the league. It’s expected that the number will be in the range of $12 million.

The amount becomes fully guaranteed if Cassel signs the tender.

Though the move might be nothing more than an effort to ensure that the Patriots will receive significant compensation by trading Cassel, we still wouldn’t be surprised if Cassel and the Pats work out a relatively short-term deal, perhaps only two or three years in duration, aimed at keeping him around until it’s clear that Brady is back to 100 percent — and giving Cassel a crack at becoming the Steve Young to Brady’s Joe Montana.

And to add:

FRANCHISE TENDER WILL TRIGGER $14.4 MILLION PAYDAY FOR CASSEL
Posted by Mike Florio on January 2, 2009, 11:52 a.m.

A reader has forwarded to us the 2008 cap numbers for the five highest-paid quarterbacks, and we’ve confirmed via a league source that the numbers are indeed accurate.

Here they are: (1) Peyton Manning, $18,704,320; (2) $14,621,320; (3) Carson Palmer, $13,980,001; (4) Eli Manning, $12,916,666; and (5) Brett Favre, $12,000,000.

It works out to an average of $14,444,461.40 — and that’s the amount of the one-year tender that the Patriots would have to extend to quarterback Matt Cassel if/when the franchise tag is applied to him.

Given that Brady’s cap number in 2009 will be $14,626,000, franchising Cassel will tie up more than $29 million in cap space in only two players.

[DaddyTorgo]

Absolutely the right move. Can't not do it.

[Logan]

And stupid for Cassell to accept a 2 or 3 year deal unless he's getting a ton of money.

[DeToxRox]

Cassel gets 14 mil now, and to be a FA in an uncapped year.

Not a bad gig at all.

[stevew]

I think he will need 6 years of experience to hit FA if this Uncapped year comes to fruition.

[larrymcg421]

Okay Dolphins.

So Ginn is getting better and Bess is a nice surprise, but let's get a real quality WR. Thanks.

[RainMaker]

The Franchise tag also makes me think that Brady is not going to be ready for the start of 2009. While I understand he's a nice asset, it's still a ridiculous amount of money to pay for the QB position in one year. This Patriot team is aging in a lot of areas and needs to fill a few holes. $14 million seems ridiculous if he's going to be a backup QB considering that money would get you 2-3 good players at other positions.

[stevew]

I'm sure they can restructure enough guys to make this work. Hell welker's had 200 plus catches over the last 2 years makng about 3 million per, so they are very good at saving money in other spots.

I would exclusive tag cassell actually, since if you have any concerns about Brady for 2009 you can't go into the year without a good QB who you know can perform well in your system.

And its possible after Favre gets cut that the tender won't be much higher than the 14 million it is now. I don't know what number 6 on the QB list would be tho.

[terpkristin]

Dunno if it's been posted yet, didn't see it but admittedly didn't do the most thorough search. Found this through George R.R. Martin's "Not A Blog" LiveJournal. As some may know, GRRM lives and dies with the Jets and the Giants. I say this almost literally, as I'm sure his real job (being an author) has suffered, as when they lose or do well, he's too feisty to write (and I'm admittedly bitter and waiting for the next book in his A Song of Ice and Fire series). Anyway, the NYT has an Op-Ed piece that says that the Jets are cursed. Go see it for yourself. I guess I have to have a little pity for Jets fans.

/tk

[Suburban Rhythm]

Mort reported on the ESPN pregame that the Pats would be franchising Cassell, and it's both that there are questions that Brady will be ready, as well as getting the best value (compensatory) for Cassell if Brady is ready and Cassell is moved.

Of course, in the next sentence, he talked about where they'd be able to fit both under the cap, and I swear he said the cap is going up "$93 million next season". WTF

Everything I've found online says about $123M next season, up from $116M this season.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Mort reported on the ESPN pregame that the Pats would be franchising Cassell, and it's both that there are questions that Brady will be ready, as well as getting the best value (compensatory) for Cassell if Brady is ready and Cassell is moved.

Of course, in the next sentence, he talked about where they'd be able to fit both under the cap, and I swear he said the cap is going up "$93 million next season". WTF

Everything I've found online says about $123M next season, up from $116M this season.

I thought he say that is was going up FROM $93 million to about $123 million.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I thought he say that is was going up FROM $93 million to about $123 million.

That would make sense, but I am 100% sure it was well above $93M this year.

[Suburban Rhythm]

dola

found this - ESPN - Sources: New England Patriots to put franchise tag on Matt Cassel

That would mean the Patriots would have about $29 million in salary cap space tied up in two quarterbacks, with Brady earning almost $15 million and Cassel guaranteed over $14 million.
However, the cap jumps to $123 million per team, which gives the Patriots $94 million to manage the rest of their roster.

Maybe that is the $93M (or $94 per the article) he was referencing. Sure seemed like the way Mort worded it, they would have an additional increase of $93.

[DaddyTorgo]

There is ZERO chance the Pats will not franchise Cassel, so it's a non-story as far as I'm concerned. Any other news? Let the Tony Dungy speculation begin!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The Franchise tag also makes me think that Brady is not going to be ready for the start of 2009. While I understand he's a nice asset, it's still a ridiculous amount of money to pay for the QB position in one year. This Patriot team is aging in a lot of areas and needs to fill a few holes. $14 million seems ridiculous if he's going to be a backup QB considering that money would get you 2-3 good players at other positions.

Franchising Cassell has nothing to do with Brady's health. If they haven't traded him by the draft/minicamps/training camp, then you can start reading into it what you want, but at this point even if Tom Brady were 100% healthy they would still tag Cassell because the return from a trade is greater than the worth of $14m in cap space (of which none is immediately guaranteed).

That said, what do people think the trade value is? I'm thinking since most of the teams that would want Cassell the most are drafting top 5/10, something like a 3 this year and next year's #1 would fit the Patriots style.

[Logan]

Generally the thought is that a future pick is worth a pick one round lower in the preceding year, so that would be like getting a 2nd and a 3rd which wouldn't be enough for me if I was NE.

I know there's people out there who don't think Detroit should go QB with the #1 overall. Do they have enough interest in Cassell to part with their second 1st rounder?

[JPhillips]

Given the uncertainty around Brady I don't see how they can trade him before this year's draft.

[Bad-example]

Singletary is interviewing OC candidates and it looks like Linehan, Chudinski (from Cleveland) and Dennison (from Denver) are the leading candidates. No idea which would be the right choice.

[Galaxy]

With Bradford, McCoy, and Tebow coming back to college, will it make the value of quarterbacks higher this off-season?

[Logan]

Pretty sure Bradford is the only one who would've went in the 1st. The other two were projected anywhere from the 3rd to the 5th I believe, so to answer your question, I don't think very much.

[albionmoonlight]

If I were Cassell, I'd sign the tender. $14 million is a lot of money to leave un-guaranteed.

[gstelmack]

Peppers wants out of Carolina:

Julius Peppers won't sign long-term deal with Panthers - NFL - SI.com

Wonder who'll give up at least a first-round pick for him this year? Carolina kind of has to trade him now and get something decent in return, right? Especially without a first-round pick in this draft.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Multiple media sources are indicating that Matt Cassel will be traded to the Chiefs for a second round draft pick.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

... and those media sources are?

Have the Patriots even franchised him yet? Is "multiple media sources reporting that Cassel makes sense for the Chiefs, and pick #34 would probably be included" more accurate?

[Logan]

How about "multiple media sources [who have been] reporting [for months] that Cassel makes sense for [wherever Pioli ended up, which is now] the Chiefs, and pick #34 would probably be included"?

[Logan]

So MBBF are your "multiple sources" really a guy from Sirius NFL radio speculating on Cassel ending up there, and thinking a 2nd rounder is the right price?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

So MBBF are your "multiple sources" really a guy from Sirius NFL radio speculating on Cassel ending up there, and thinking a 2nd rounder is the right price?

ESPN Insider is giving similar information. There was also a KC TV sports reporter giving the same offer and he said the Chiefs and Patriots were already talking (but that was on Monday so negotiations may be close to done). The asking price had been a 1st rounder. I'm guessing they're willing to take KC's 2nd rounder since it's near the top of that round. Obviously, KC's not going to part with the #3 pick, so the 2nd rounder would likely be the only option.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

ESPN Insider is quoting only the Herald article.

It's just the Herald article, whose only source is a guy saying "I’d really look at Pioli down there in Kansas City. Why wouldn’t he want him?"

Like I said first, Cassel isn't even franchised yet. But let's get the ball rolling on discussion - would it take more than #34? How much better is Cassel than Thigpen?

Edit: In a fantasy football kind of way, I would love Cassel + 5th for Gonzalez + 2nd

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Like I said first, Cassel isn't even franchised yet. But let's get the ball rolling on discussion - would it take more than #34? How much better is Cassel than Thigpen?

He's a LOT better than Thigpen, but that's not saying much. Tyler played hard for us all year long, but he's not the solution. The rumor mill locally is that Pioli probably won't retain any of the current QB's. He's going to clean that position out and start fresh.

I don't think it will take any more than a low 1st/early 2nd round pick. The Patriots are in a big cap mess and really need to unload someone to make room. If they don't unload one of their big contracts, they'll be left with $58M to sign the other 46 players. That's not much.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Right now the Pats are about 20M under their adjusted cap with 49 players signed.

http://www.patscap.com/

[gstelmack]

The Patriots also have a lot of guys whose contracts are up this year, so don't be surprised to see renegs that give some cap relief it they think its needed (although my guess is he gets franchised and traded before they have to worry about signing draft picks, etc). And if they need to keep him, they'll be fine.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Logan

So MBBF are your "multiple sources" really a guy from Sirius NFL radio speculating on Cassel ending up there, and thinking a 2nd rounder is the right price?

As an aside, notice that it's becoming trendy for "multiple sources" or "unconfirmed sources" to now be Sirius or XM?

SI

[JPhillips]

I still don't see how the Pats can trade Cassel without knowing the status of Brady for the 2009 season. Do they really want to risk playing games with Matt Gutierrez or Kevin O'Connell at QB? But if they do decide to trade him I'd hold out of at least a first rounder.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I would think a veteran QB (Garcia?) would have to be brought in to be the backup.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I still don't see how the Pats can trade Cassel without knowing the status of Brady for the 2009 season. Do they really want to risk playing games with Matt Gutierrez or Kevin O'Connell at QB? But if they do decide to trade him I'd hold out of at least a first rounder.

If I'm the Pats, this is really easy. I tag Cassell and then only trade him once I'm sure Brady is ready. If training camp rolls around and Brady is ok, there will still be a market for Cassell and what you have lost is access to the 2009 draft instead of the 2010.

I'm sure we'll see the nonsense angle about "but you have $30M tied up in QBs". However, if you have a gimpy QB at $15M on the sidelines who cannot play, then you have nothing. Brady is a sunk cost.

SI

[Thomkal]

*sigh* I've been thinking it was pretty much inevitable since Pioli became the Chiefs GM, that Cassel would end up there. Makes sense really because as much as I love my guy Thigpen, I'm not sure he has what it takes to be a regular starter in the NFL. Cassel makes a lot of sense for KC, but I would think the Patriots have to have some insurance if Brady can't come back right away, and wouldn't trade Caseel till closer to next season.

[RendeR]

Little does anyone know that Donavon McNabb is being traded to the Pats, Cassell is going to the Chiefs and Brady will only return to the pats if he shows up 110% ready to play come camp time. if not he will be auctioned off to the highest bidder.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I would think a veteran QB (Garcia?) would have to be brought in to be the backup.

I've been thinking the same thing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The squeaky wheel is back in KC. Larry Johnson shot off at the mouth this morning on 610 AM radio. He said he wanted to be released or traded. Said he'd like to go to Dallas or an east coast team.

They can't get rid of this guy soon enough. It's a damn shame that Peterson didn't trade him away two years ago when we were being offered multiple picks including a first rounder for this guy.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

He said he wanted to be released or traded. Said he'd like to go to Dallas or an east coast team.

Thank god we've already got a glut at RB...

[gstelmack]

He'll come to New England, be a model citizen, and have a 1600 yard / 12 TD season...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

He'll come to New England, be a model citizen, and have a 1600 yard / 12 TD season...

I'm not sure the phrase 'needs a change of scenery' was ever more appropriate.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I still don't see how the Pats can trade Cassel without knowing the status of Brady for the 2009 season. Do they really want to risk playing games with Matt Gutierrez or Kevin O'Connell at QB? But if they do decide to trade him I'd hold out of at least a first rounder.

O'Connell going into next season will be a better QB than Cassell coming into this one. If we can get the #34, we'll probably try to get a 2009 pick included, maybe a 3 or more likely a conditional one.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

O'Connell going into next season will be a better QB than Cassell coming into this one. If we can get the #34, we'll probably try to get a 2009 pick included, maybe a 3 or more likely a conditional one.

Yeah, but you probably also thought Michael Bishop was better than Tom Brady!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Yeah, but you probably also thought Michael Bishop was better than Tom Brady!

I still do.

[stevew]

Cassell's best leverage is to sign the tag within an hour of receiving it. At that point the ball is in his court. He can then choose where to go.

[RainMaker]

The franchise tag just makes me believe that the Pats think that Brady won't be ready. The Patriots have some holes and I can't see them putting $15 million into a backup QB.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The franchise tag just makes me believe that the Pats think that Brady won't be ready. The Patriots have some holes and I can't see them putting $15 million into a backup QB.

Me too, but it could be a move just to have leverage in trading him. Either way, good for Matt and good for USC.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Me too, but it could be a move just to have leverage in trading him. Either way, good for Matt and good for USC.

If he gets traded, does he still have to be paid the $15 million for the year? That would seem to dramatically reduce his trade value.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

No, he'll sign a new contract with his new team.