The Biden Presidency - 2020

[Ksyrup]

Putting aside inflation/stimulus concerns, I'm still very conflicted about student loan forgiveness in general. I appreciate the racial/income disparity, but no one forced anyone to go to college. In many cases, they got what they paid for (such as it is - usually not a very good cost/benefit outcome, even in a good economy, IMO). The truth is, not everyone needs to go to college, just like not everyone should go in debt for a car or home. People need transportation and housing - what about cancelling those debts?

To me, this is just throwing money at a larger problem and essentially acknowledging that a college degree isn't worth but a fraction of what it costs. Seems like there are other things that could be done to get to the root of the problem, or better ways to help the less fortunate with targeted programs rather than just cancel contractual obligations.

$125K seems like a high ceiling as well.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I get it's a stimulus (e.g. more money to be spent in the economy) but is it really wise during times of high inflation.

As him if he is factoring inflation? I would like to hear his POV.

I would think the inflation impact would be pretty muted. That whole 230B isn’t hitting the economy all at once, it’s the individual’s payments that are being relieved that are going to affect spending behavior.

[albionmoonlight]

As a policy matter, forgiving debt without any plan to fix the issue going forward is a really bad idea.

I am super duper sympathetic to people drowning in it. And I am fine with them getting help. But it should be part of a holistic plan that tries to grapple with the moral hazard.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Putting aside inflation/stimulus concerns, I'm still very conflicted about student loan forgiveness in general. I appreciate the racial/income disparity, but no one forced anyone to go to college. In many cases, they got what they paid for (such as it is - usually not a very good cost/benefit outcome, even in a good economy, IMO). The truth is, not everyone needs to go to college, just like not everyone should go in debt for a car or home. People need transportation and housing - what about cancelling those debts?

To me, this is just throwing money at a larger problem and essentially acknowledging that a college degree isn't worth but a fraction of what it costs. Seems like there are other things that could be done to get to the root of the problem, or better ways to help the less fortunate with targeted programs rather than just cancel contractual obligations.

$125K seems like a high ceiling as well.

I'm okay with $10K (not the higher bar of $40-$50K) amount. It is what it is regardless of how we got there, it is a problem. My biggest beef is they should have to do some community service for the benefit (e.g. Habitat for Humanity, food banks, etc.).

You do bring up a good point about $125K, that's upper middle class in non HCOL areas.

Also agree, this does not address root cause(s) and that needs to be worked on.

[Ksyrup]

I'm just thinking back to my own experience. I graduated law school in 1996 with $50K in debt. My first job was $24,999. That's equivalent in today's dollars to just under $50K. I got a couple of small raises before going into private practice at the end of 2000. My salary in 2001 was $60K. That's equivalent to $100K today.

By the time I was making money that would eclipse today's equivalent of $125K, I had paid off most of my debt. I think I paid it off in 10 years. And that included a small downturn in the economy in the early 2000s as I recall, although fortunately I wasn't as adversely affected around 2008-2010 like a lot of people.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm just thinking back to my own experience. I graduated law school in 1996 with $50K in debt. My first job was $24,999. That's equivalent in today's dollars to just under $50K. I got a couple of small raises before going into private practice at the end of 2000. My salary in 2001 was $60K. That's equivalent to $100K today.

By the time I was making money that would eclipse today's equivalent of $125K, I had paid off most of my debt. I think I paid it off in 10 years. And that included a small downturn in the economy in the early 2000s as I recall, although fortunately I wasn't as adversely affected around 2008-2010 like a lot of people.

I'm guessing its because you went into a profession where you could make decent money.

The targeted demographics today are (probably) folks that went into majors with less opportunities, or never graduated at all.

It would be interesting to do a survey of what (1) schools (2) majors and (3) what current profession who have debt after graduation + 5 years.

FWIW, parents paid for college. For grad school, I paid with paycheck & credit card. I think I paid off credit card in about 2 years.

[Edward64]

I think this is a reasonable request. I like some context to these top secret documents that Trump kept.

We don't need detailed information, maybe a sign-off from the Gang of 8 to a list of documents & short description. Otherwise, will we have to wait for a 6-12-18 month investigation to conclude before we get more details.

Gang of 8 wants to see Trump Mar-a-Lago search docs - POLITICO

The group of congressional leaders charged with reviewing the most sensitive intelligence information has asked the Biden administration for access to the documents seized from former President Donald Trump’s private residence in Florida, according to two people with direct knowledge of the request.
:
The Gang of 8 includes the top two congressional leaders in each chamber — Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy — as well as the top Democrat and Republican on the House and Senate intelligence committees.
:
Privately, Capitol Hill aides have expressed frustration about the fact that Congress has learned little about the investigation into the former president, especially since it reportedly involves matters of national security.

[Ksyrup]

I don't know why the general public needs any information. All this crap is doing is undermining a process that should be given the benefit of the doubt as an above-board investigation. Instead, we need more and more information and other people involved because first, it was the AG, then it was the FBI, now its the judge. At some point, the process is the process and there's been absolutely nothing alleged, other than the general circumstances, that casts any doubt on what's occurred so far.

And I expect after viewing the documents, someone like McCarthy would make indirect comments to the press about how immaterial these documents are in the big picture in order to further escalate supporters' beliefs that this is politically motivated. "I've seen them, trust me, this didn't warrant a raid on a former president's house."

No amount of assurances is going to make anyone inclined to believe the worst suddenly agree to wait and see what happens.

[Flasch186]

Ksyrup

When you say fear what do you mean? Can you define fear? I mean with interpretations of opaque legislation I don’t know what there is to fear. She can always sue the system for her career back some day. Just tell her don’t ruffle too many feathers because she’s likely being watched and you know the MAGA adherents are really good at not crossing lines that might result in hurting or killing someone.

And regarding the gang and research that has always been a theme of the extremists/conspiracy mongers… they need more information and to do their own research to get to the bottom of it. Of course after they get home from working at Darleys plumbing all day. That will be the first time they can get into doing the hard research to find out where Biden is hiding the kids he’s abusing.


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[Izulde]

When the interest on student loans outstrips the payments, I'm frankly all for student loan forgiveness. And I only had two small loans that I paid back relatively quickly despite being essentially poor most of my adult life

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Ksyrup

When you say fear what do you mean? Can you define fear? I mean with interpretations of opaque legislation I don’t know what there is to fear. She can always sue the system for her career back some day. Just tell her don’t ruffle too many feathers because she’s likely being watched and you know the MAGA adherents are really good at not crossing lines that might result in hurting or killing someone.

Exactly.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't know why the general public needs any information. All this crap is doing is undermining a process that should be given the benefit of the doubt as an above-board investigation. Instead, we need more and more information and other people involved because first, it was the AG, then it was the FBI, now its the judge. At some point, the process is the process and there's been absolutely nothing alleged, other than the general circumstances, that casts any doubt on what's occurred so far.

And I expect after viewing the documents, someone like McCarthy would make indirect comments to the press about how immaterial these documents are in the big picture in order to further escalate supporters' beliefs that this is politically motivated. "I've seen them, trust me, this didn't warrant a raid on a former president's house."

No amount of assurances is going to make anyone inclined to believe the worst suddenly agree to wait and see what happens.

I almost feel like Biden would need the Gang of Eight, especially any who are still election deniers to agree that any possession of classified documents is a serious crime and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law before he agreed to this-get them all on record from both parties so that it can't be used for political reasons,at least to a large extent. I think McCarthy would do what you said in a second if given the chance to see the documents. A "Let's Grow Up and put America first moment" Yeah I know I still want to believe they can do this.

[RainMaker]

It's weird how no one cared about inflation when it came to bailing out the banks or giving businesses billions in PPP loans.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's weird how no one cared about inflation when it came to bailing out the banks or giving businesses billions in PPP loans.

Many did with the PPP "loans".

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Putting aside inflation/stimulus concerns, I'm still very conflicted about student loan forgiveness in general. I appreciate the racial/income disparity, but no one forced anyone to go to college. In many cases, they got what they paid for (such as it is - usually not a very good cost/benefit outcome, even in a good economy, IMO). The truth is, not everyone needs to go to college, just like not everyone should go in debt for a car or home. People need transportation and housing - what about cancelling those debts?

To me, this is just throwing money at a larger problem and essentially acknowledging that a college degree isn't worth but a fraction of what it costs. Seems like there are other things that could be done to get to the root of the problem, or better ways to help the less fortunate with targeted programs rather than just cancel contractual obligations.

$125K seems like a high ceiling as well.

No one forced banks to loan out money. No one forced people to open businesses before the pandemic.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Many did with the PPP "loans".

Not really. The economists crying about inflation due to student loan forgiveness were awfully quiet during PPP.

We just gave Ukraine another $3 billion today by the way. Brings us up to around $60 billion over the past 6 months for the inflation hawks.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

No one forced banks to loan out money. No one forced people to open businesses before the pandemic.

No one was forced to take a student loan either

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

No one forced banks to loan out money. No one forced people to open businesses before the pandemic.

But those are job creators! They're the heroes of the economy! Students are just useless people that we need to create jobs for

SI

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

No one forced banks to loan out money. No one forced people to open businesses before the pandemic.

This isn't a pandemic issue. It's made worse by the pandemic, but it's a much larger issue.

Also, banks made loans available, people took them, and the banks are now entitled to collect according to the terms of those loans. If one cannot pay, they can attempt to get that debt discharged through bankruptcy. That's a gamble any bank makes when providing loans.

I'm not opposed to assistance and I understand how this adversely affects certain segments of the population. But it's a really slippery slope to go down, at a time when some people are arguing more and more for a "right" to what boils down to a certain standard of living.

[Ksyrup]

Regarding the current college system, I found this thread to be interesting:

Given today's student loan news, here's one reminder (��) of the system we're once again not fixing: https://t.co/DTdoUER8Px

— Scott Lincicome (@scottlincicome) August 23, 2022

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Also, banks made loans available, people took them, and the banks are now entitled to collect according to the terms of those loans. If one cannot pay, they can attempt to get that debt discharged through bankruptcy. That's a gamble any bank makes when providing loans.

It's not a gamble for the banks since taxpayers have to bail them out when they fail. Student loans can't be discharged through bankruptcy (thanks Biden!).

My argument doesn't have anything to do with the pandemic. Just that there is no outrage over inflationary spending when it benefits banks or wealthy business owners.

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

No one was forced to take a student loan either

The school requires you to pay to attend. I'm guessing people wouldn't take out loans if they didn't have to.

[Ksyrup]

But the school doesn't require you to attend.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

But the school doesn't require you to attend.

Most jobs that you can support a family on do.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This isn't a pandemic issue. It's made worse by the pandemic, but it's a much larger issue.

Also, banks made loans available, people took them, and the banks are now entitled to collect according to the terms of those loans. If one cannot pay, they can attempt to get that debt discharged through bankruptcy. That's a gamble any bank makes when providing loans.

I'm not opposed to assistance and I understand how this adversely affects certain segments of the population. But it's a really slippery slope to go down, at a time when some people are arguing more and more for a "right" to what boils down to a certain standard of living.

Then make it legal to discharge student loans in bankruptcy.

[RainMaker]

Pentagon just got $850 billion for next year. $50 billion more than they asked for just because. Again, inflation hawks real quiet on that one too.

Just like with bank bailouts, PPP, pandemic slush fund, airline bailouts, auto bailouts, quantitative easing, farm subsidies, oil subsidies, tax loopholes, etc.

It's just weird that trillions can go to wealthy people in the country and no real worries about inflation till there is talk about helping poorer and middle-class people. Kind of like the people who thought $600 a week in unemployment was unconscionable, but giving millions in handouts to their old boss was no big deal.

[NobodyHere]

You're right RainMaker, there has never been any criticisms about those programs you listed. Not a single one.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Then make it legal to discharge student loans in bankruptcy.

It is. Most types of loans have heightened standards and we could lessen those if we wanted, but they are dischargeable.

[Ksyrup]

For me, it's not an inflation thing. See my post at the top of this page.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It is. Most types of loans have heightened standards and we could lessen those if we wanted, but they are dischargeable.

Private loans can be dis-chargeable (and the forgiveness being discussed doesn't affect private loans). Federal loans are nearly impossible to get discharged through bankruptcy. As a matter of fact you can often end up paying more interest on a federal student loan in Chapter 13.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Most jobs that you can support a family on do.

I'd argue that with the way our service society has developed, not to mention more traditional non-college paths, that there are plenty of opportunities to make a living right now, plus an easier path with Internet/social media to get your service or product out there than there ever has been.

No one's saying it's easy, but college isn't always the answer.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

My biggest beef is they should have to do some community service for the benefit (e.g. Habitat for Humanity, food banks, etc.).

This shit is always funny. Airlines got $54 billion in bailouts during the pandemic and ended up buying back stock with the money. No one asked their CEOs to pick up trash on the side of the road.

Can't tell if it's a disdain people have for middle-to-lower class people or a deification of wealthy people. Maybe a bit of both.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This shit is always funny. Airlines got $54 billion in bailouts during the pandemic and ended up buying back stock with the money. No one asked their CEOs to pick up trash on the side of the road.

Can't tell if it's a disdain people have for middle-to-lower class people or a deification of wealthy people. Maybe a bit of both.

Such a clever analogy. Somewhat of a reach but we live in different worlds and see things differently.

As lessons learn from past discussions, if you want to discuss a topic, lay it all out. What exactly is your position on this? Something I can come back to and say this is what we are talking about, not this other tangent that was veered off to.

Suggest we create a new thread also. But your call.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Private loans can be dis-chargeable (and the forgiveness being discussed doesn't affect private loans). Federal loans are nearly impossible to get discharged through bankruptcy. As a matter of fact you can often end up paying more interest on a federal student loan in Chapter 13.

I do agree that government student loans should be dischargeable like anything else in a bankruptcy. It should be treated similar to other defaulted loans.

[Ksyrup]

What about the IDR program? I don't know anything but the highlights, but does anyone know why it's not more popular? High-level, my understanding is it bases what you can pay back on your income and can forgive the rest of your loan after 20 years. I assume there's some catch or limit on who can apply or what loans it applies to?

[sterlingice]

It's a nice game if you're running a business and can convince people you're too big too fail or an industry in trouble. Never mind that, so often, those industries are failing because of monumentally stupid management decisions or suffering from their own largess. But they are basically holding the employees and their jobs hostage. So billions of dollars get dished out and, at most, there's some griping about how rich guys have the system gamed but there's acceptance that it's just the way it is.

However, the minute regular citizens get given a fraction of that money, the average people can relate to that situation. Suddenly, we're all looking at poor people's carts or life choices and telling them how they're making bad decisions.

I love loan forgiveness with social work attached as I feel we need to do more of that in this country. However, if we're going to means test it (yes, $125K is a high means test but it is a means test) then there are going to be a lot of people who need $10K in student loan forgiveness that have multiple jobs and/or don't have time to go work for Habitat or similar. It'd be nice if we did something like that for larger student loans but a number of those programs seem to be underfunded and subject to (GOP) fuckery where the program gets cancelled or altered when administrations change so people in underserved areas or whatever end up throwing away years of their life for no loan forgiveness.

And, no, it doesn't fix the actual problem - the cost of attending college. But no action was going to get done on that. However, this can make a huge difference for a lot of people. And, yes, you can still make a living not attending college, but let's not pretend that's not a harder and less secure route. Are there ways to make a good living not attending college? Absolutely. Are you, on average, going to make more if you go to college? Pretty much every survey and study says so and that's why most of us went and, if we have kids, we're directing most of our kids that way.

And, as we seem to keep saying over the past month, it's less than ideal politically. It's something that's been a Dem goal for a long time now will be attacked for raising inflation and will be tainted for future generations because of the timing. But at least something is getting done about it. And whenever we give some sort of tax break or money to people under $100K, it almost always give some real bang to the economy since it turns around and gets spent almost immediately. It would have been nice for this to have been done to help recover from a recession but this is such a weird economic environment right now. I can't wait for the GOP ads about how forgiving student loan debt is contributing to why people don't want to work for horrible wages.

SI

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'd argue that with the way our service society has developed, not to mention more traditional non-college paths, that there are plenty of opportunities to make a living right now, plus an easier path with Internet/social media to get your service or product out there than there ever has been.

No one's saying it's easy, but college isn't always the answer.

The numbers don't lie in terms of income with and without a college degree. Even low-paying entry level jobs require it these days.

And I think you know that. You could have gone to one of the states that don't require law school and saved yourself the $50k. But you didn't, which tells me you understood the degree's value in the field you wanted to work in.

But the other question is why was having a $50k debt hanging over your head at 25 a good thing? Sure, you paid it back, but it also put you in a hole.

Imagine if you were able to get your retirement started with that $50k. That'd be a cool million by the time you retired. Maybe you could have bought a house sooner instead of renting, started a side business, had a family sooner, or just enjoyed life a little more. That $50k can buy some nice vacations and opens up the entertainment options a bit.

And that's the other part of it. How much does student loans hold people back? And how much does that hurt us to remain competitive with the rest of the world?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Such a clever analogy. Somewhat of a reach but we live in different worlds and see things differently.

I'm asking why paying off student loans is bad but giving free money to big businesses is good. There seems to be a lot of inflation talk around one of those but not the other.

Also, if you believe the person who gets $10k wiped out of their student loans should have to do some community service, why wouldn't the CEO of Delta who took $5.4 billion have to do the same?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The numbers don't lie in terms of income with and without a college degree. Even low-paying entry level jobs require it these days.

And I think you know that. You could have gone to one of the states that don't require law school and saved yourself the $50k. But you didn't, which tells me you understood the degree's value in the field you wanted to work in.

But the other question is why was having a $50k debt hanging over your head at 25 a good thing? Sure, you paid it back, but it also put you in a hole.

Imagine if you were able to get your retirement started with that $50k. That'd be a cool million by the time you retired. Maybe you could have bought a house sooner instead of renting, started a side business, had a family sooner, or just enjoyed life a little more. That $50k can buy some nice vacations and opens up the entertainment options a bit.

And that's the other part of it. How much does student loans hold people back? And how much does that hurt us to remain competitive with the rest of the world?

Or maybe you're not classed out of low paying entry level jobs at larger firms that pay next-to-nothing (that's a separate problem) but get your foot in the door and set you up for greater long term success. So it's not like you can even apply for those because you have to start spending big chunks of your paycheck on paying back student loans. And you're never getting that opportunity once you're 40 and have your loans paid off.

SI

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The numbers don't lie in terms of income with and without a college degree. Even low-paying entry level jobs require it these days.

And I think you know that. You could have gone to one of the states that don't require law school and saved yourself the $50k. But you didn't, which tells me you understood the degree's value in the field you wanted to work in.

But the other question is why was having a $50k debt hanging over your head at 25 a good thing? Sure, you paid it back, but it also put you in a hole.

Imagine if you were able to get your retirement started with that $50k. That'd be a cool million by the time you retired. Maybe you could have bought a house sooner instead of renting, started a side business, had a family sooner, or just enjoyed life a little more. That $50k can buy some nice vacations and opens up the entertainment options a bit.

And that's the other part of it. How much does student loans hold people back? And how much does that hurt us to remain competitive with the rest of the world?

If that's the test, then we should all put everything on credit cards and have the government pay it for us. I paid back what I owed because it was my obligation in exchange for a degree that helped me make money and that I calculated, along with my hard work, smarts, etc., would pay off later in life. But it wasn't a foregone conclusion that it would be a financially smart decision because the degree doesn't provide anything other than avoiding a barrier to doing a certain type of job.

This is getting perilously close to feeding right into the GOP talking points. I'm all for helping less fortunate people help themselves. I'm not for setting a standard of living that the government is going to pay for because life is hard.

This may help some people, but it's not going to help the people who need it most because those people didn't go to college. This is going to help people making more money (up to the $125K cap) then it's going to help some of the poorest people in the country. For that as well as a ton of other reasons, I just see this as a bad precedent to set.

[GrantDawg]

Private practice medical has now largely become big corporate medical. Doctors, denist and optometrist coming out of school no longer can afford to go to work for a small office, or work to take over for another doctor at the end of his/her career. They have such huge debt to pay, they have to work for large companies for the salary. Retiring doctors end up selling out to the big corporations because young doctors don't have the loan power to buy them out like they used to. Medicine just continues to become more and more corporate and profit driven.

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[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm asking why paying off student loans is bad but giving free money to big businesses is good. There seems to be a lot of inflation talk around one of those but not the other.

This free money. Is it specific to PPP or something else. If something else, lay out the programs.

Also, if you believe the person who gets $10k wiped out of their student loans should have to do some community service, why wouldn't the CEO of Delta who took $5.4 billion have to do the same?

I'll google on this.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

If that's the test, then we should all put everything on credit cards and have the government pay it for us. I paid back what I owed because it was my obligation in exchange for a degree that helped me make money and that I calculated, along with my hard work, smarts, etc., would pay off later in life. But it wasn't a foregone conclusion that it would be a financially smart decision because the degree doesn't provide anything other than avoiding a barrier to doing a certain type of job.

This is getting perilously close to feeding right into the GOP talking points. I'm all for helping less fortunate people help themselves. I'm not for setting a standard of living that the government is going to pay for because life is hard.

This may help some people, but it's not going to help the people who need it most because those people didn't go to college. This is going to help people making more money (up to the $125K cap) then it's going to help some of the poorest people in the country. For that as well as a ton of other reasons, I just see this as a bad precedent to set.

I think college education is worth putting on the nation's credit card if it came to it. But that's not necessary. There are numerous areas the country can cut spending to (like bailing out airlines and banks). We can also *gasp* tax wealthy people. Or not give the Pentagon an additional $50 billion they didn't even ask for.

The standard was set decades ago when the previous generations didn't have to pay for college. They were able to get their degrees and enter the workforce with no debt lingering over them. They got to open businesses, buy homes, start families, etc. What we have now is fairly new and brought on by a FYGM attitude of people who were fine with taxpayer-funded higher education, just not for those coming after them.

[Edward64]

In today's 538 poll aggregate, Biden approval is at 40.7%, up from 37.9% in July 22. So he's gained +2.8% in a month which is pretty good.

[PilotMan]

I swear if anyone honestly looks at Hershel Walker and thinks "this is the guy who will be the very best to represent my interest and his constituency'," then I never, ever want to spend any time with them, because they must be so fucking dim, and have such low standards for people that they cannot possibly be worth my time.

[bob]

Biden set to cancel $10K of student debt for millions, $20K for Pell grant recipients

If nothing else, I think the income limits are way too high. And while I'll keep my personal experiences out of this discussion, but I do know a lot of people perfectly capable of paying their loans that have just been piling up money in hopes this was coming. Nice bonus for them I guess.

Plus it doesn't solve anything. Sucks to be starting school next year.

[Edward64]

The middle of the link has a breakdown of who benefits most.

Who benefits from student debt forgiveness

The White House is expected to announce cancelling $10,000 of student loan debt for individuals earning less than $125,000 a year. A little more than half of the debt relief would go to households with a combined annual income between $50,795 and $141,096, according to an analysis from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/24/polit...use/index.html

[albionmoonlight]

Happy for those who will benefit from the relief.

Agree that there needs to be a real solution going forward to manage costs, affordability, etc.

[sterlingice]

I love the doubling based on Pell Grants. That's a great way to do a simple bonus for likely lower income.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Happy for those who will benefit from the relief.

Agree that there needs to be a real solution going forward to manage costs, affordability, etc.

I agree with all of this.

There just wasn't going to be some comprehensive college reform bill right now. There just wasn't - there's no votes or political movement for it. So the option was either forgive some student loan debt or... not forgive some student loan debt. So it feels like unless you add the "also" (or implied "also" like above), any arguments that are like "we shouldn't be doing this unless we can fix it all at once" are basically "don't do anything".

Also, as I said above

I can't wait for the GOP ads about how forgiving student loan debt is contributing to why people don't want to work for horrible wages.

Maybe this is the type of thing that can (finally) kindof put some upward pressure on wages. When you have $10K or $20K less in debt, you can be a bit more choosy about your job choices and make better long term decisions rather than making desperation ones for today's emergencies.

SI

[bob]

Proposes a new income-based repayment plan which caps payments at 5% of discretionary income (down from the current 10%).

New IBR plan covers monthly interest so long as payments are made on time, meaning the loan would not grow due to interest even if the payment is $0.

New IBR plan forgives loan balances of $12,000 or less after 10 years instead of 20.



Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but if this goes into place, why would anyone ever pay for college without loans?