Florida...more stupid American stuff?

[terpkristin]

Is this true? If it is, I'm scared. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4415135.stm
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Florida to expand law on gun use

The law is heavily backed by the National Rifle Association

A law letting people in Florida kill in self-defence on the street without first trying to flee an attacker has been passed by Florida politicians. Florida law already allows people to shoot a potential attacker in their home, place of work or car.

But until now, courts insisted that anyone confronted in a public place should first try to run away.

Critics of the law say it will bring a Wild West attitude to Florida - magnet to hundreds of thousands of tourists.

One critic said all the measure would do is sell more guns and turn the state into a modern version of the OK Corral.

The bill has been heavily backed by the National Rifle Association, the lobbying group which defends the rights of Americans to carry guns.

Dennis Baxley, the Republican sponsor of the Stand Your Ground bill said it was about meeting force with force.

"If I'm attacked, I should not have to retreat," he said.

The bill has already passed the Florida Senate and is expected to be signed into law by Governor Jeb Bush, the president's brother.

Opponents said the move gave gun owners a license to kill.

"For a House that talks about the culture of life it's ironic that we would be devaluing life in this bill," said Democratic state Rep Dan Gelber of Miami Beach.

"That's exactly what we're doing."

Opponents of gun control have celebrated recent victories: Congress let the ban on assault weapons expire last autumn, and since 2003, five states have approved laws allowing people to carry concealed weapons.

Thirty-five states now require the authorities to issue permits for concealed handguns to most applicants as long as they do not have criminal records, and two, Alaska and Vermont, allow concealed weapons without a permit.
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Hmm, so if I go to Florida and decide I don't like the way you look, I can shoot you and claim you were trying to harm me and thus it was self defense of some sort?!?!?!

Australia is sounding better and better on a daily basis...

/tk

[Desnudo]

I believe most self-defense laws center around having a reasonable fear for your life. So, no, you can't just shoot anyone you like. The people that do that don't apply for permits when they buy guns.

I had no idea you could carry in Vermont without a permit.

[st.cronin]

We should really kick Florida out of the Union...

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I believe most self-defense laws center around having a reasonable fear for your life. So, no, you can't just shoot anyone you like. The people that do that don't apply for permits when they buy guns.

I had no idea you could carry AND CONCEAL in Vermont without a permit.

Yeah but most self-defense laws also center on PROOF thereof. And I imagine that in some parts of Florida, an "innoncent blonde" could claim more or less anything she wants and get away with it...

Granted, I've become more cynical and jaded lately, which definitely tempers my thoughts on this...

/tk

[Celeval]

So if two people met in the street with guns, it is now entirely legal for either to shoot the other. Legalized dueling?

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Yeah but most self-defense laws also center on PROOF thereof. And I imagine that in some parts of Florida, an "innoncent blonde" could claim more or less anything she wants and get away with it...

Granted, I've become more cynical and jaded lately, which definitely tempers my thoughts on this...

/tk

Well, you don't live in Florida, so I wouldn't sweat it too much. I'd move to Australia, but for the sunny beaches.

[Ksyrup]

Great file photo. No ulterior motive there.

I tend to think your hypothetical is a bit stretched. You have to have a reasonable belief that you are in danger of death or great bodily harm, meaning you'd have to show some demonstrable evidence that you were in danger (assuming a hypo where two people were alone). I tend to believe the DA's offices around the state would require something more than just someone's word for it, if there was no sign of struggle or intent on the part of the person who was killed.

This law simply allows people the right to defend themselves without having to retreat, which is already a right we enjoy in our homes. The intent is to prevent the injustice of charging a victim with a crime for fighting back, simply because they didn't think to attempt to retreat before protecting themselves.

From an article explaining it in a bit more detail than the one you cited:



"Like many states, Florida courts have ruled that people have a right to defend themselves in their homes. Florida courts have expanded that "Castle Doctrine" to include employees in their workplaces and drivers who are attacked in their automobiles. Outside the home, however, courts have ruled that most victims must at least attempt to escape before using deadly force, a provision gun advocates say puts victims at greater risk. The proposal removes that requirement if a person has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm."

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Hmm, so if I go to Florida and decide I don't like the way you look, I can shoot you and claim you were trying to harm me and thus it was self defense of some sort?!?!?!

Australia is sounding better and better on a daily basis...

/tk[/size]

Well, I suppose you could do that, but you'd have to convince a jury that you're telling the truth.

A majority of states already have this law in place and there haven't been any problems. I think there's actually more of a problem if you have a situation where if you are being ATTACKED (and again, this only allows you to meet force with force, not use disproportionate force) you are required to try and turn and run rather than defend yourself.

BTW, this law passed the state Senate unanimously (that means all Democrats as well) and passed the state House by a more than 2/3rds margin. This was a bill that enjoyed widespread support, despite the fact that the BBC could only be bothered to talk to one legislator who supported it.

[stevew]

Anyone who is going to commit a robbery, assualt, attack or otherwise on another human should be in fear for his life. It will be interesting to see the trend in florida after a few years of this passing, whether violence is up or down, what exactly has happened.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by stevew

Anyone who is going to commit a robbery, assualt, attack or otherwise on another human should be in fear for his life. It will be interesting to see the trend in florida after a few years of this passing, whether violence is up or down, what exactly has happened.

I'll bet the impact to overall statistics will be near nill. Just because that type of scenario (armed, innocent defender, armed attacker) doesn't happpen all that often.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I'll bet the impact to overall statistics will be near nill. Just because that type of scenario (armed, innocent defender, armed attacker) doesn't happpen all that often.

Yeah, you are probably correct.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Critics of the law say it will bring a Wild West attitude to Florida - magnet to hundreds of thousands of tourists.

One critic said all the measure would do is sell more guns and turn the state into a modern version of the OK Corral.

This is near VERBATIM what they said 15 or so years ago when Florida wiped out their old gun control laws to start anew and forgot to ban open carry. Most assuredly Florida did NOT turn into the Wild West, and somehow I doubt it's going to happen this time either.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Article

Critics of the law say it will bring a Wild West attitude to Florida - magnet to hundreds of thousands of tourists.

One critic said all the measure would do is sell more guns and turn the state into a modern version of the OK Corral.

The modern version of the OK Corral charges $5 to get in, and it's not what they make it look like in the movies.

And can someone please explain to me what a "Wild West attitude" is? Everyone seems pretty normal around these parts. Do these people think we walk around here with six shooters strapped to our legs and have shoot outs at high noon on a regular basis?

[JonInMiddleGA]

A law letting people in Florida kill in self-defence on the street without first trying to flee an attacker has been passed by Florida politicians. Florida law already allows people to shoot a potential attacker in their home, place of work or car.

Damn.

I just don't have words adequate to describe how much I love the beauty of these.
{taking notes, gotta get copies of the Florida stuff for my legislator}

[ISiddiqui]

Um... the anti-gun crowd has so streached what this bill is about that THAT is frightening.

It's a (get this) GOOD law! If you are imminent threat of death, why should you be forced to try to flee (and have the guy shoot you in the back?) rather than defend yourself right then?

[tategter]

I did a dance in the street (not literally) when I heard that this law was coming through the system. It is a good law because citizens are actually allowed to defend themselves instead of being required by law to be cowards.

Now I can legally skullfuck a perp who threatens my family.

[Franklinnoble]

An armed society is a polite society.

[Fritz]

great news!