FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[RainMaker]

I just got hit by a rubber bullet near the bottom of my throat. I had just interviewed a man with my phone at 3rd and Pine and a police officer aimed and shot me in the throat, I saw the bullet bounce onto the street @LAist @kpcc OK, that’s one way to stop me, for a while pic.twitter.com/9C2u5KmscG

— Adolfo Guzman-Lopez (@AGuzmanLopez) June 1, 2020

[Brian Swartz]

.....................

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by ISsidiqui

It is absolutely insane that you think that because there is homicide between private citizens (the percentages, btw, are similar for killings of white Americans as well) that the killing of 30 per million Black Americans by the state isn't a substantial issue that needs to rectification?!

Now you're just flat-out lying about what I've said, which IMO probably marks the point at which this conversation is no longer useful. Here's a couple times in this discussion where I've said it is a substantial issue:

Originally Posted by me

They ARE a problem, a problem that needs to be addressed and dealt with.

Originally Posted by me

still way, way too high. As I've posted, I am concerned about the general issue of police violence.

Originally Posted by ISsidiqui

That's 30 per million for blacks, 22 per million for Hispanics, 12 per million per whites, and 4 per million for "Other"

Want to try again? By ignoring percentages of black folks compared to police shootings you are just carrying water for racism, IMO.

For at least others reading this, my point wasn't to ignore those percentages, but I would say that the current atmosphere and way this is discussed, rhetoric in this thread etc., you'd think the disparity was several orders of magnitude larger than it is, more like 20, 30, 50 or more times the incidence for other races. Additionally, study after study after study has found that such percentages (in shootings and otherwhise) don't necessarily point to inherent racism by police. And by the way, the reverse percentages are even worse: the percentage of those who kill the police find blacks over-representing their population seven-fold. See:

** 2016 study by black Harvard economist Roland Fryer, along with another in 2014 by Washington State University, both found that police were less likely to shoot a black suspect than one of other races.

** As relating to driving while black, the Obama administration's DOJ - not some right-wing president, a conservative think-tank, some attack group or Trump or whatever - found that in 75% of traffic stops involving blacks the blacks themselves said there was a good reason they were pulled over. The DOJ concluded that increased incidence of blacks being stopped, which is absolutely a real reality, resulted from differences in driving patterns, rates of offending, and exposure to police. Not from police treating them differently. Crimonologists, not conservative ones, have found similarly going back decades.

One can go on and on with this kind of thing relating to sentencing issues etc. I do absolutely believe there are issues to be resolved here, but they simply are not of the magnitude that is generally being described which is why I call this a police violence issue. The source is primarily economic, largely because of redlining and other historic racist policies that have led to inequity, and I favor moderate forms of reparations etc. to help address that and try to stem the tide of the tragic increased levels of crime, family breakdown, etc. that are evident in the black community. I'm for resolving what facts indicate are the real problems IMO.

[RainMaker]

7️⃣4️⃣ Minneapolis, MN: police responding to a medical emergency – a tanker truck deliberately running over protestors – nonetheless stop to casually pepper-spray folks from the comfort of their SUVs

pic.twitter.com/mbE1atnk0O

— T. Greg Doucette (@greg_doucette) June 1, 2020

[RainMaker]

6️⃣1️⃣ Austin, TX: police shoot an unarmed pregnant woman, rush over to where she's receiving medical attention – then, after they remove her, start shooting all the other unarmed protestors

pic.twitter.com/EqQqNpZUzz

— T. Greg Doucette (@greg_doucette) May 31, 2020

[RainMaker]

In today's criminal justice news, police in Denver CO are leaving a pre-curfew protest – but make sure to take direct aim at a man recording on his phone, shooting him with a pepperball for sport

pic.twitter.com/DZdIidDBM7

— T. Greg Doucette (@greg_doucette) May 31, 2020

[CrimsonFox]

[bob]

They were removing the smashed windshield so the car could be driven off the street.

[whomario]

Quick question: Are those officers quickly identifiable by 'command' ? If not, would that not be a start ? Like put much larger plates on cars and come up with some sort of coded system to mark uniforms, especially riot gear (limited facial recognition possible).

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

and



You can see the supposed texts further in the thread FWIW:

Dylan on Twitter: "HOLY SHIT. The cop who started the vandalizing was outted by people who know him. His name is Jacob Pederson of the St. Paul PD.… https://t.co/MYgrXJcBuo"

It seems that the pizza box guy that was following umbrella guy around...is working with him. Here they are on a different day at a different location.

About 37 seconds in on the first video

Thomas C. Lang on Twitter: "Also, I filmed this man shortly before 7pm on 5/27. Fast forward to about 37 seconds.… "

[Jukeman]

Looks like the same day and same location just different angle. You can see the autozone building in the background.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

It seems that the pizza box guy that was following umbrella guy around...is working with him. Here they are on a different day at a different location.

About 37 seconds in on the first video

Thomas C. Lang on Twitter: "Also, I filmed this man shortly before 7pm on 5/27. Fast forward to about 37 seconds.… "

FYI: MPD has denied it's Pederson. Now considering some of the shady shit going down, there's a bit of a trust issue with local law enforcement and local government (like in Louisville, the cops mayor claimed those cops smashing the milk and water bottles because there were incendiaries in there - never mind that they dump everything on the ground or toss it casually into the back of a pickup truck and no one's really buying that). But the link naming it as Pederson was tenuous, at best - someone online who was his ex-wife or something.

Originally Posted by Jukeman

Looks like the same day and same location just different angle. You can see the autozone building in the background.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed - this looks like it was taken just after the Autozone confrontation. However, the guy in pink who is walking away with him and laughing. Just a minute ago, in the other video, he was pretending to confront him. So, yeah, it sure looks like they were working together in all that.

SI

[RainMaker]

9️⃣6️⃣ Detroit, MI: police officer yells at and pushes a man who is walking away from him, when a second cop swoops in and shoves the man to the ground, before a third cop sprays the now-helpless-on-the-ground man in the face with OC spray

pic.twitter.com/jevxBiivQ1

— T. Greg Doucette (@greg_doucette) June 1, 2020

[Ben E Lou]

This appears to be taken in Marion Square in downtown Charleston, a place where I've picnicked with my family numerous times.

What in the WORLD?

please watch. please listen closely. if anyone has any information on this man / a link to his go fund me please let me know. this is absolutely not okay. we will not be silenced. pic.twitter.com/t2h6FovmoL

— (っ'-')╮ (@sweeeetdee_) June 1, 2020

[Jukeman]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA5TkCCg...d=qk3s2gv4bxa2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

This appears to be taken in Marion Square in downtown Charleston, a place where I've picnicked with my family numerous times.

What in the WORLD?

I haven't seen any reports of this kind of nonsense happening anywhere near me, but I'm really hoping we stay on top of all of these ... indefensible, from what I can see ... actions. We need to have a lot fewer police, at least temporarily, after this is over. A lot of people need to fired, and some prosecuted.

I really don't understand what a lot for them are thinking *boggle*

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

This appears to be taken in Marion Square in downtown Charleston, a place where I've picnicked with my family numerous times.

What in the WORLD?

please watch. please listen closely. if anyone has any information on this man / a link to his go fund me please let me know. this is absolutely not okay. we will not be silenced. pic.twitter.com/t2h6FovmoL

— (っ'-')╮ (@sweeeetdee_) June 1, 2020

What the fuck? I was expecting something like one of them coming out to extend a hand, not arrest him. Wow!

[JPhillips]

It's amazing that even with cameras everywhere police are still convinced they have the impunity to do things like that. Sure, the guy will be released, but the intimidating message was sent to him and those around him.

[NobodyHere]

So what exactly are the peaceful protesters trying accomplish at this point?

[CrimsonFox]

https://www.facebook.com/gribbzley/v...7227506940132/

in seattle

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So what exactly are the peaceful protesters trying accomplish at this point?

The peaceful protesters have been overwhelmed by news & twitter feeds of the rioting, looting, police actions etc. Seems very grassroots (which is a good thing) but also seems very fragmented with lack of centralized leadership speaking out.

My guess is the longer this continues, the more it works against the messaging for the 30% undecided/no opinion.

[Atocep]

We're reaching new levels of hypocrisy.

Anarchy, rioting, and looting needs to end tonight.

If local law enforcement is overwhelmed and needs backup, let's see how tough these Antifa terrorists are when they're facing off with the 101st Airborne Division.

We need to have zero tolerance for this destruction.

— Tom Cotton (@TomCottonAR) June 1, 2020

[kingfc22]

Man I hope all this destroys the GOP's power for the next 50+ years.

There is no bottom out of reach for their hypocrisy. Nothing says Make America Great Again more than bombing your own citizens.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Atocep

We're reaching new levels of hypocrisy.

I thought it was going to be something about how everyone was killing peoples' grandmas until a few days ago when mass protests seemingly ended the need for social distancing and saving grandma.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by panerd

I thought it was going to be something about how everyone was killing peoples' grandmas until a few days ago when mass protests seemingly ended the need for social distancing and saving grandma.

It is out in the open and many are wearing masks so there's that.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by panerd

I thought it was going to be something about how everyone was killing peoples' grandmas until a few days ago when mass protests seemingly ended the need for social distancing and saving grandma.

The antifa measure to postpone civil unrest over police violence until after a vaccine is produced didn't pass unfortunately.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by panerd

I thought it was going to be something about how everyone was killing peoples' grandmas until a few days ago when mass protests seemingly ended the need for social distancing and saving grandma.

Speaking of which, where are those guys in Michigan, Wisconsin, and other places that were against government tyranny while the government is beating up on children, medics, the press, and shooting people on their own porches?

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Speaking of which, where are those guys in Michigan, Wisconsin, and other places that were against government tyranny while the government is beating up on children, medics, the press, and shooting people on their own porches?

SI

Hypocrites as well, that's how the L/R game works. It's just clear as day as this shit is political. Sad, scary but hard to argue at this point. The media and the left were as recently as Monday talking about tracing one man who partied at the Lake of the Ozarks. Now they have moved on to their new issue.

You took a break for a few years from FOFC but reference the Boston Marathon thread for me vs the entire board about police militarization and why this wasn't the greatest moment in US history.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The antifa measure to postpone civil unrest over police violence until after a vaccine is produced didn't pass unfortunately.

Just thought some of the politicians, celebrities, and media members would have something to say about COVID-19 and how it doesn't understand how to avoid infecting the righteous. Some of them were literally crying on twitter last week about the Lake of the Ozarks and "dead grandmas" but now their silence just shows their faux outrage is all political. (Of course the right is as guilty as this as well just pointing out it's all a hypocritical game to them)

[kingfc22]

A quick google search of protesters and COVID 19 shows that news outlets are reporting this; however, images of riots and burning buildings works much better on TV.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

A quick google search of protesters and COVID 19 shows that news outlets are reporting this; however, images of riots and burning buildings works much better on TV.

Clearly, "If it bleeds, it leads". My point is it was literally, I mean "blood on their hands" news articles, being sold as the death of all sorts of people from Memorial Day gatherings and the violations of the sacred social distancing. Now their reporters are right in the middle of it. Seems like that would be story #1 as this will lead to at least 20K more deaths if the Memorial Day stuff was going to cause mass deaths.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by panerd

Hypocrites as well, that's how the L/R game works. It's just clear as day as this shit is political. Sad, scary but hard to argue at this point. The media and the left were as recently as Monday talking about tracing one man who partied at the Lake of the Ozarks. Now they have moved on to their new issue.

You took a break for a few years from FOFC but reference the Boston Marathon thread for me vs the entire board about police militarization and why this wasn't the greatest moment in US history.

You have to be really struggling to avoid specific aspects of the news or blatantly ignoring things to believe people suddenly forgot about Covid.

Historic civil unrest sparked by police violence is going to get national attention no matter what else is going on. Is the media supposed to ignore the riots? Covid is still being covered and the media is warning people about the potential dangers of the protests and riots.

From the front page of the Washington Post:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ve-updates-us/

Front page of the NY Times:
bars

Front page of Fox News:
https://www.foxnews.com/health/healt...after-protests

Front page of CNN:
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...ntl/index.html

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by panerd

Just thought some of the politicians, celebrities, and media members would have something to say about COVID-19 and how it doesn't understand how to avoid infecting the righteous. Some of them were literally crying on twitter last week about the Lake of the Ozarks and "dead grandmas" but now their silence just shows their faux outrage is all political. (Of course the right is as guilty as this as well just pointing out it's all a hypocritical game to them)

We did talk about this over in the COVID thread over the weekend a little bit. There's a real concern of it flaring up.

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Seems pretty high.

So someone in my family works at a cancer hospital. They have been taking a ton of precautions there but, at the end of the day, you still have to see patients. To the patients, it doesn't matter if they die by COVID or if they die by cancer: death is still death.

I think something similar applies here. If you think you're risking dying just by going out in public, death by COVID vs death by police brutality: death is death.

SI

But if you have a much more than non-zero risk of getting killed in broad daylight on camera by police, how worried are you about a virus killing you?

I think we can (mostly) agree that protesting police violence is "better" than going to party at Memorial Day (for the economy, if you want to be generous). But if you want to try and parse out where on the scale that is, be my guest.

SI

[kingfc22]

Of course you have the differing headlines:

FoxNews headlines:
Mass protests ‘ripped the mask off’ liberal media’s politicized coronavirus coverage, critics say
Big-city Dems who had imposed strict coronavirus lockdowns now let George Floyd rioters flout rules
Health officials worry about second wave of coronavirus after George Floyd unrest

WaPo headline:
Live updates: Officials warn that protests could lead to another wave of coronavirus infections

CNN headlines:
The protests are raising fears of a spike in coronavirus cases
New York governor says mass gatherings "could in fact exacerbate the Covid-19 spread"

The Guardian, just for some international flavor:
US lockdown protests may have spread virus widely, cellphone data suggests

[panerd]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

We did talk about this over in the COVID thread over the weekend a little bit. There's a real concern of it flaring up.



But if you have a much more than non-zero risk of getting killed in broad daylight on camera by police, how worried are you about a virus killing you?

I think we can (mostly) agree that protesting police violence is "better" than going to party at Memorial Day (for the economy, if you want to be generous). But if you want to try and parse out where on the scale that is, be my guest.

SI

Yeah I saw that and think the math is pretty foolish (though maybe that was the point that people are not really thinking straight?). The chance of dying by police is <<<< chance of dying from COVID-19. For everybody, including criminals.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Atocep

You have to be really struggling to avoid specific aspects of the news or blatantly ignoring things to believe people suddenly forgot about Covid.

Historic civil unrest sparked by police violence is going to get national attention no matter what else is going on. Is the media supposed to ignore the riots? Covid is still being covered and the media is warning people about the potential dangers of the protests and riots.

From the front page of the Washington Post:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ve-updates-us/

Front page of the NY Times:
bars

Front page of Fox News:
https://www.foxnews.com/health/healt...after-protests

Front page of CNN:
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...ntl/index.html

You are more than proving my point here. These are not headline articles at all. It's all a political game, sadly with lives at risk it's bury the story political.

[booradley]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

What the fuck? I was expecting something like one of them coming out to extend a hand, not arrest him. Wow!

Thanks for posting. This has been a revelation for me.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It's amazing that even with cameras everywhere police are still convinced they have the impunity to do things like that. Sure, the guy will be released, but the intimidating message was sent to him and those around him.

It's part of the systemic issue that police are taught that they can do these sort of things without impunity, and generally the criminal justice system lets them off the hook. But now, with camera phones, I hope that a lot of this starts to change. The police response to property violence has been terrible in a lot of places. It's almost like they want to justify the protests... are the police secretly working for Black Lives Matter?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by panerd

You are more than proving my point here. These are not headline articles at all. It's all a political game, sadly with lives at risk it's bury the story political.

These are literally on the front page of these papers/sites. I linked to bunch earlier this thread as well.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

These are literally on the front page of these papers/sites. I linked to bunch earlier this thread as well.

What the fuck are you talking about?

This forum used to be pretty civil. Do you talk to people like this in real life? Why would I respond to you when you address me like this?

[panerd]

And I'm not even really an opposing viewpoint (I don't buy into militarized police or Republican talking points) though I guess I rub some of the you the wrong way. I really think you guys just enjoy the echo chamber/let's pat everyone on the back we all agree and don't really want discussion most of the time anyways.

[thesloppy]

You're viewpoint is bothering nobody, you repeatedly insisting that you're the single voice of reason vs. the entire board certainly isn't making a good impression though.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by panerd

And I'm not even really an opposing viewpoint (I don't buy into militarized police or Republican talking points) though I guess I rub some of the you the wrong way. I really think you guys just enjoy the echo chamber/let's pat everyone on the back we all agree and don't really want discussion most of the time anyways.

This discussion started with your strawman argument about COVID coverage in the media as a response to something completely unrelated. It was then pointed out that you can go to the front page of any major news network and see Covid coverage. In addition, I just went to my local paper's site (Seattle Times) and it has 4 Covid articles/links on the front page. But that somehow proves your point because the goalposts have now shifted to "not headline enough".

So I don't think the need for echo chamber is the issue here. It's the false neutrality of both-sidesism and constant need by libertarians (generally speaking) to flaunt their evolved political awareness over others. Personally, I don't care if you have a dissenting viewpoint, but if people disagree strongly enough you're going to get responses back. That doesn't mean everyone hates you and insists on having the same viewpoint or opinion, it simply means they disagree. Disagreement is part of discussion and debate.

I acknowledge that this board leans heavily to the left (more so under this administration than previous administrations) and it's probably overwhelming to have a dissenting view, but it doesn't mean that they're not welcome.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by panerd

This forum used to be pretty civil. Do you talk to people like this in real life? Why would I respond to you when you address me like this?

I actually do talk to my buddies in real life that way when they say some bullshit (though it's definitely more friendly than the way I meant it for you). As for 'this forum used to be pretty civil' - if that's the worst you've seen, you've either never read JIMG posts or don't get out too much. Especially when you are telling some obvious whoppers.

[RainMaker]

You made a false statement and then got mad when people showed you that it was false.

[RainMaker]

FBI Agent of South Sudan heritage ... being Racially Profiled ... See What happened after his arrest & what they did after they found out who he his ...�������������������� pic.twitter.com/ZVxNQ7phqd

—  Tai  (@worldtrav747) June 1, 2020

[panerd]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I actually do talk to my buddies in real life that way when they say some bullshit (though it's definitely more friendly than the way I meant it for you). As for 'this forum used to be pretty civil' - if that's the worst you've seen, you've either never read JIMG posts or don't get out too much. Especially when you are telling some obvious whoppers.

Whatever makes you feel better about yourself I guess. More whataboutism...

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

[RainMaker]

8️⃣9️⃣ Seattle, WA: same technique as 8️⃣8️⃣ above – bike cop deliberately tries to "pass" where there's clearly not enough room, so he can then make contact and put a protestor into a headlock

pic.twitter.com/hRX8rl1QPv

— T. Greg Doucette (@greg_doucette) June 1, 2020

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You made a false statement and then got mad when people showed you that it was false.

They deep down know what I mean. The front page is an old newspaper term and generally means like 4-5 headlines not one of like 75 links on Cnn.com. If they think the mass media outlets are out pushing this deadly virus will kill your grandma the same during the protests and riots then they they did after Memorial Day then they are the ones living in denial Not going to quit the forum because I like a lot of the people here and enjoy the gaming and netflix threads etc but you guys are definitely in a echo chamber in the politics thread. What are the opposing voices now like 2 people? Congrats I guess?