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#1 | ||
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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FOFC GroupThink 2024: We take over the (beloved) Arizona Cardinals
Fresh off our GRAND SUCCESSES of recent years:
FOFC GroupThink 2022: We take over the NY Football Giants FOFC GroupThink 2023: We take over the Detroit Lions ...we now set our sights on a goal, to, uhh, idano, what do we do down here in cactusville anyway? RED STORM RISING or something? Maybe that needs to be part of the plan, let's get some of them Mad Men in here to help us sell this turd sandwich. |
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#2 |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Looking forward to helping out Thomkal’s beloved Cardinals. When we step in, the team makes the playoffs. Can we do it again?
__________________
Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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#3 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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Quote:
god knows we need all the help we can get. A suggestion-only schedule teams who no one thinks they can beat.
__________________
Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time! |
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#4 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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...and we start right off by fumbling the #2 overall draft pick. Nice. Could make the QB decision that much stickier, right?
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#5 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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Quote:
yeah but i don't think that QB is the way to go-Murray appears to have recovered from his injury and they have so many other holes to fill. The cards in my view have given up way too early on good talent on their team only to see them go on and have good success elsewhere, especially on the defensive side. so they need to keep players like Budda Baker who can be difference makers.
__________________
Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time! |
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#6 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
yayayaya I was going to make this if someone else didn't! Love those birds! Let's make them chirp! |
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#7 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Marvin Harrison Jr. is the obvious dream, but he may be gone. If one of the top 2 QBs is still available I'd look for a trade partner and see how many picks I could get for next year. I'd feel pretty good having 20-22 picks over the next two drafts.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#8 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
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I agree. QB isn't quite.. solved.. per se (I need to see another good year from Murray before I say he's as good as people said he was), but the team has a LOT of need. Trade down, get as many high draft picks as possible, and look to kickstart a fast rebuild with needed positions.
__________________
Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com |
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#9 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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ok, the internal trend feels like we stick with QB Murray, but I'd like to have a clearer sense of the contract/cap implications of a trade before doing so...
Kyler Murray Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap wow, Kyler is only 26, yeah... Well, a post-June 1 trade looks like it hits the Cards for "only" $13m a year for 24-25-26 ... that is a surprisingly team-friendly situation, in my mind. My one vote here is still in play for the "move on from Murray and draft a QB here," FWIW. Not fully sold, but I'm not entirely in on him - and I'm not sure what we are trying to build here merits a top-tier QB salary for the 24 and 25 seasons. I'm thinking our focus is on being the obvious up-and-coming team for 2026 (thinking the 21-22-23 Lions arc). |
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#10 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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...and a trade for Murray would yield the Cards...what, do we think? I'm guessing maybe one first round pick, or possibly something like the McCaffrey deal with more than one later picks. I don't think it's a Russ-like haul (two firsts plus players) but more like the Rodgers deal. 26, still coming off an injury but playing pretty well, but on a massive contract that would mostly be inherited.
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#11 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Would you then trade up? I don't think you want the third-best QB which might be what you get picking fourth. Is Daniels an upgrade?
From a Chicago perspective, I'd love to have Arizona as a trade partner. If I can get the two firsts plus that fills a lot of holes.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#12 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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I will try to think about it this way... let's say that whatever we could get for Murray would be enough to move up from our pick to 1.1 to get the top QB on our board. For now, that doesn't feel too fanciful, but maybe it's a bit optimistic. Maybe I will mentally add in a 2025 2nd as well.
But that's how I'm thinking about it, I guess. Mentally my rankings are about here: BEST . . . -build around top drawer rookie QB -build around Murray on current contract . . . -fill-in at QB while we build, develop long tern QB plan later . . . WORST |
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#13 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: High and outside
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This is probably not needed on a sports management sim site but we have to consider salary and everything else in a Kyler Murray deal. This article from Bleacher Report suggest that Kyler's contract makes him untradeable. I don't know about all that but we might want to temper our excitement on what we might get back from a Kyler trade.
Aside: Where do we discuss what we think the Bears should do with the first pick, another first rounder, and Justin "I-don't-know-what-we-have-here" Fields? Dueling GroupThink threads?!?!? |
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#14 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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Do we hire a new coach that was recently fired from his college job?
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
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#15 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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I would think the Justin Fields (and whatever else) could go well in the general NFL thread.
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#16 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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Quote:
i just think there in no rookie QB that can duplicate what murray can do right now. just look at the qb's who went to carolina and houston this draft-they are a crap shoot-so I think the cards need to build around murray at this point. Go after some quality free agents and fill in with the draft.
__________________
Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time! |
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#17 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
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Quote:
I think the play is keep Murray, build the roster out and move back where feasible to continue to accumulate future picks (except with the 4th overall pick if Harrison is still there). Last edited by Carman Bulldog : 01-02-2024 at 06:59 PM. |
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#18 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think Murray is that bad. If I'm the Cardinals, I'm going hard for MJH.
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#19 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
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Let's look at Murray:
154-238 (64.7% Completed), 1537 yards (6.5 avg) 9 TD, 5 INT #17 in the league in QBR. Not super great, but not bad, especially when you consider he was working back up to live game time. 4 years left on the 5 Year deal he signed: It'd be an $81 million cap hit to drop him (pre-June 1, after June 1 it's a $48 million next year, $10 or so million the three remaining hits) So, obviously cutting him is a non-starter. Right now, they have #4 and #17 (Houston's) as well as Murray. You're probably not getting a first rounder back for Murray. Is it worth spending the draft capital to move up to the top 3 to get one of the QB's in this draft? I don't think so. Instead, 2024 should be Murray's make or break year. If it's break, you're likely drafting high again anyway. If he makes it, his contract is not as much as an issue. (relatively speaking, a big name QB is going to cost AT LEAST that much). Instead, look to improve around him. Marvin Harrison Jr, is probably the best play at #4 if available, and then top OL talent middle of the first round to protect him (remember, he's missed three games at least a year due to injury). I would also look to see if Brissett, Joe Flacco, or someone at that level to be the backup, just in case. In the offseason, they have about $53 million in cap space, so again, let's work on building up.
__________________
Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com |
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#20 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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If you can get Pennix with one of the third-rounders that's a nice development plan. I don't know if he'll last that long, though.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#21 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
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#22 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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#23 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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My initial feeing is keep Murray and draft the best non-QB at 4.
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#24 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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subject to change, etc.
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#25 |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Unless we're willing to trade up to number one or two, I don't think the the third QB overall is worth giving up on Murray and the headache of having to trade him.
I just ran two three-round mocks through PFF and Marvin Harrison JR was available both times. I don't think we can rely on that, but, as of now, it looks like the fourth pick overall will either be MHJ or tackle out of Penn State. If we had a choice between Maye and Williams and Murray, I think it'd be a harder call.
__________________
Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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#26 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
I'm not high on him as a first rounder, but for a team with three third rounders and a need for a backup, I think he'd be a nice fit. I like the fact that he's older and has experience in multiple systems. He's accurate, runs progressions well, and is always calm. He'd be a nice backup with the potential to start if Murray is hurt and he wouldn't cost much. Admittedly this probably means you start with a QB controversy and that isn't ideal.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#27 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Let's get the Titans former head coach in here and lead us to victory!
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#28 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Overall, I'm fine daydreaming about getting MHJr but it's probably more productive to heavily consider the seemingly likely situation that pick 4 comes up with him and the top two QBs all off the board.
That puts us at the start of a new "tier" (as I see it) and that's usually a provocative place to be selecting. We get a top-graded tackle, or a pass rusher, or the next best WR, most likely. Or we deal down if there's a demand. |
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#29 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
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Quote:
I also look at the disaster that the Philadelphia defence was this season compared to last year and attribute at least some of that drop to Gannon's absence. |
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#30 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Jayden Daniels creeping into the top 2-3 slots in mock drafts is VERY good news for our Cardinals. Keep the hype machine rolling.
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#31 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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I just can't see MHJ getting to four, but if he's there he's the obvious pick. I think he's the most surefire prospect in the draft. He's big, fast, good hands, runs good routes, works hard, and has great pedigree. He's as close to a can't miss as comes.
Which is why I can't see him getting to four.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers Last edited by JPhillips : 01-24-2024 at 04:42 PM. |
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#32 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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All three teams in the top three need quarterbacks, and there are three top quarterbacks available. If any of those teams don't want one of those three QBs, then they can get a ransom from someone who does. Unless one of those QB's fall on their face between now and the draft, they are going one, two, three.
Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk |
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#33 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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It may play out that way, but I'm not taking the third QB over MHJ
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#34 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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So the Patriots should keep rolling out Mac Jones?
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#35 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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And if the Patriots don't want Jayden Daniels, the Falcons would happily trade up to get him. And I don't think they are the only ones.
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#36 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
I don't think Daniels is anywhere close to a sure thing and I'd rather get a midQB like Baker Mayfield and then get the best WR available. If you pick Daniels you're all-in with that for the next three years. It's the kind of pick that gets GMs fired. Nobody will look back and blame a GM for picking Harrison.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#37 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Back to the Cards.
QB3 stock rising is excellent for us at 4. Increasing chances of us either getting MHJr or there being a desirable QB on the board for which someone may be willing to overpay (by the book). If we feel like there's a cliff effect after MHJr then that would be a really good thing...deal down to pick 10 and pick up "one of the tackles/edges" or whatever and accumulate other capital. |
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#38 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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What if they got Big V to Head Coach!
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#39 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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If MHJ is there, he's the pick. I like trading down as there are a number of tackles and I don't think there's much difference between WR2 and WR5.
What about 4 for MIN 11, 42, & 109? If Daniels isn't the NE pick MIN would be a good team to lure up to take him.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#40 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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IMO, by the time the draft is here, the consensus top three picks will be QBs.
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#41 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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Kyler and MHJr running around doing Kyler and MHJr things will be a Sunday Ticket staple.
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#42 | |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Quote:
I think I'm with you on both segments here. My ranked order: Take WR Harrison and profit Get a juicy trade-down deal for value this year or next, and take a quality guy Take the top guy from our next tier ...and it sounds like this might be more or less consensus in the thread thus far. |
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#43 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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Sadly the WR corps used to be one of the strongest, but now looks like one of the weakest. Guess it would depend on who fell to them at 4, and who might be willing to trade up for a QB if one of the top 3 is still available.
__________________
Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time! |
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#44 |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Do we have a good breakdown on what our team needs are?
I know WR is one and, based off PFF, OL, DL. LB and CB are, also, needs, but I don't know if its interior line, tackle, edge, interior defense, etc. It could just be all largely "all of the above". With the raise of Jadyn Daniels and all of the picks we have in the first three rounds, a solid draft could really accelerate this rebuild. In some ways, it's not too terribly different than the Lions a few years ago. While no one (other than them) really thought they had the QB position locked up in Goff, they did and then were able to use that first draft - Sewell, McNeil, St. Brown, and others - to jump start the rebuild. We have Murray at QB and if we hit on these early round picks, we could really be setting up something special for a while.
__________________
Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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#45 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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First question about the receiving corps, Marquise Brown is a pending free agent. I'm not in favor of pre-empting that by paying market price (or more) there, but that's potentially on the table for us as the incumbent.
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#46 | |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Quote:
I think I let him walk. While I really liked him coming out of college, I haven't been overly impressed by him in the NFL. With Michael Wilson coming on last year and the ability to draft MHJ, I think Brown is expendable and we can use our resources elsewhere. We didn't trade a first round pick for him, that was the prior regime.
__________________
Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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#47 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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put the WR. WHo cares. There are 4 more crappy WR ready to play for nothing.
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#48 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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Looking only at his stats, he's averaging ~60 catches for ~650 yards and ~3 TDs for the Cards.
That seems very replaceable. If he loves the desert, etc. and he's wiling to play for a team-friendly deal, then great. But assuming his assessment of his value is still based on 3 years ago, I think you let him hit the market. |
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#49 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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dola: If MHJ is off the board, then having needs at CB and OT isn't the worst thing for this team b/c there seem to be some top guys at that position that could be justified at #4
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#50 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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Quote:
This i agree with he really didn't show too much i think because he was injured a lot? He seems to have a bond/be friends with murray, so keeping him around if he doesn't break the bank is a possibility I guess.
__________________
Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time! |
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