WW CII Salem Witch Trials GAME OVER - VILLAGE WINS - Page 7

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 04:38 PM

What about the seer, danny?

claphamsa · 10-01-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

If I'm telling the truth it makes more sense to lynch me first? Common now! Make sense with your arguments.

ya, this logic shit is tough! IF you were telling the truth... it wouldnt matter who we lynch today, since you would be dead tongiht (your not, but thats beside the point) if I am telling the truth (I am) then lynching you keeps the BG alive...

that better?

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 04:39 PM

Oh, I think I follow you.

Abe Sargent · 10-01-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

If that was a bad play from the BG, I'm sorry, but all indications based on what happened with the vote were that I'd be the main candidate today and have to reveal at some point anyways, and I'd rather not drag it out and say things like "oh well, you really shouldnt vote for me because itd hurt the village".

I agree with that reasoni ng, an I hate it when people say that.

claphamsa · 10-01-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Well that is very interesting and excellent Clap. If true, that means we had a wolf in the sights day 1, so wealready have a meaningful vote now. With that said, there was no BG block, so your info makes no sense with your reveal. If you're really the seer, I am sure you are not fooling the wolves with your reveal, so you would be better telling us the truth and not leaving your reveal to not be believed.

no i was the seer last game...... not sure what your getting at here!~

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

ya, this logic shit is tough! IF you were telling the truth... it wouldnt matter who we lynch today, since you would be dead tongiht (your not, but thats beside the point) if I am telling the truth (I am) then lynching you keeps the BG alive...

that better?

You are assuming I protected myself last night. I was in the running to be lynched, why would the wolves target me night 1?

Danny · 10-01-2009, 04:40 PM

Wow I really need to read all the posts before commenting. Looks like they both revealed as BG.

claphamsa · 10-01-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

vote claphamsa

what makes his fake reveal logical? if i were lying... it would come out within a day or 2. by him revealing, hes done nothing but guarantee he dies tommrow. THIS MAKES NO SENSE!

Danny · 10-01-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

What about the seer, danny?

Nevermind, I missed your whole exchanged and just saw the post before mine by Claphamsa. I'll repost thoughts after I read the whole thing now.

claphamsa · 10-01-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

You are assuming I protected myself last night. I was in the running to be lynched, why would the wolves target me night 1?

because every other choie is someone you dont know is on your side, also, it looked like it was gonna be a runaway on me when you left. and you even said yourself, your sacrificing yourself with this fake reveal.

Abe Sargent · 10-01-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

what makes his fake reveal logical? if i were lying... it would come out within a day or 2. by him revealing, hes done nothing but guarantee he dies tommrow. THIS MAKES NO SENSE!

What makes a wolf fake reveal on Day 2 for no reason?

claphamsa · 10-01-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Wow I really need to read all the posts before commenting. Looks like they both revealed as BG.

it helps.... but i dont do it either

claphamsa · 10-01-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

What makes a wolf fake reveal on Day 2 for no reason?

knwing that he will be a prime target for the lynch, and the thought that he could get the body guard lynched instead! its a trade!

Danny · 10-01-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I really hope that isn't the case, and it would be an absolutely boneheaded play from a villager. He could be the sorceror if there is one of those, but either way, if he's not bad, I'm going to be very upset with him after this game is over - just as many of you were upset with him after last game, I'm sure.

As Jackal said, if Clap did this he deserves to get lynched even if he is a villager. One of them is certainly a wolf.

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

because every other choie is someone you dont know is on your side, also, it looked like it was gonna be a runaway on me when you left. and you even said yourself, your sacrificing yourself with this fake reveal.

Sure, but there are obvious targets (well-known good players) that I could choose from. Obviously I didn't choose KWhit, but I'd like to keep it in the dark who I chose so that the wolves will have a nice decision in front of them if you are the one to be lynched today.

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

what makes his fake reveal logical? if i were lying... it would come out within a day or 2. by him revealing, hes done nothing but guarantee he dies tommrow. THIS MAKES NO SENSE!

That's the thing - a fake reveal BG can last longer than a fake reveal seer, though. If you don't die, you can say it's because the wolves don't know who you protected night 1 and therefore don't know your protection pattern and don't want to risk losing a NK. And they'd rather go after a random person who could be the seer, because the seer can devastate the wolves chances by revealing 2-3+ scans.

claphamsa · 10-01-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

As Jackal said, if Clap did this he deserves to get lynched even if he is a villager. One of them is certainly a wolf.

i agree. one is a wolf and its jackyl not me! I would never reveal as a role i did not have as a vilager.

claphamsa · 10-01-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

That's the thing - a fake reveal BG can last longer than a fake reveal seer, though. If you don't die, you can say it's because the wolves don't know who you protected night 1 and therefore don't know your protection pattern and don't want to risk losing a NK. And they'd rather go after a random person who could be the seer, because the seer can devastate the wolves chances by revealing 2-3+ scans.

yes, i said this earlier....

Danny · 10-01-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

ok, thinking logic here... jacyl faked because he figured he would be the prime candidate today.... so if there is a chance he can get you to lynch me great (PB i s already on board) since its not like its hard to lynch me...

so here is a thought... do any of you really think I could pull off a fake reveal?

Not to be mean, but when you actually have a role you rarely reveal early and sometimes not at all. I could definitely see this from you as a wolf. That said, Im not saying I am going to vote you yet, but this is not a valid reason for not voting you.

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

yes, i said this earlier....

But that's exactly why you could still get by without being lynched after two days of surviving clap..

It doesn't work if you fake reveal as the seer (see last game, after one no NK with no BG around, it was obvious i was a wolf) - but if you fake as the BG and the BG doesn't come clean (and as Lathum suggested, the BG should've stayed quiet except it was me), you could stick around for a long while.

Danny · 10-01-2009, 04:53 PM

Clap revealed before deadline. He actually often does not do that with a role. This was clearly done to save himself if he is the BG or to save himself and potentially get a real BG reveal if he is a wolf.

Jackal really had no reason to reveal if he was a wolf unless he simply expected him to be a primary lynch candidate. Certainly not a guarantee with. If he is a wolf and does not counter right away, the opportunity is gone for a counter later.

If he is the BG, he made the right play. That way we can address this issue now and have meaningful voting records. And as I said earlier, a reveal later when needed quite possibly wouldn't be believed anyway.

I am going to vote Clap at this point. This isn't a usual first reveal case because Clap revealed to save himself from lynch, not because he had found a wolf. And Jackyl was not caught as a wolf when he revealed.

Vote Claphamsa

claphamsa · 10-01-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Not to be mean, but when you actually have a role you rarely reveal early and sometimes not at all. I could definitely see this from you as a wolf. That said, Im not saying I am going to vote you yet, but this is not a valid reason for not voting you.

i have no revealed early... once! and thats cuz i had to work...... so......

claphamsa · 10-01-2009, 05:15 PM

heh, whatever lynch me or not, we have jackyl as a wolf, while not a fair trade thats all i get.

make sure you take looks at danny and abe

abe jumped on my twice already, and danny is making shit up about my habits of revealing. which is bull shit and wrong.

J23 · 10-01-2009, 05:22 PM

I believe Jackal over Clap. Do we gain more by lynching him now though?

If we(those that are of the same opinion as me) are right, and he's a wolf, if we lynch him that's great. We killed one.

If we're wrong, and he is the BG, if we don't lynch him, he'll have a chance at a lucky block as long as we leave him alive, or he'll be NK'd and it will be proven he was the BG and we know that Jackal is a wolf.

Can someone tell me if I'm crazy here for thinking we might be better off focusing on other people and letting the wolves show us who the BG is with their NKs?

lerriuqs · 10-01-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J23

I believe Jackal over Clap. Do we gain more by lynching him now though?

If we(those that are of the same opinion as me) are right, and he's a wolf, if we lynch him that's great. We killed one.

If we're wrong, and he is the BG, if we don't lynch him, he'll have a chance at a lucky block as long as we leave him alive, or he'll be NK'd and it will be proven he was the BG and we know that Jackal is a wolf.

Can someone tell me if I'm crazy here for thinking we might be better off focusing on other people and letting the wolves show us who the BG is with their NKs?

I like it actually. We'll build a better voting history when we get that figured out. Now if both continue to live, we'll have to deal with this eventually, but perhaps we should go after the other two wolves (or how many there are) and allow these two to live for a bit...

lerriuqs · 10-01-2009, 05:44 PM

The issue could also be solved for us by the seer if we wait as suggested.

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 05:46 PM

Yeah, but it would be smarter for the seer to scan other people, as the good/bad between me and clap will come out on its own.

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 05:47 PM

Still, I've always been a proponent of going after a wolf when you think you have one. But I'm not in a position to push anyone, and J's idea isn't terrible. See what the rest of people think.

J23 · 10-01-2009, 05:51 PM

I'm still pretty new to this, so I don't want to lead us down the wrong path, but even if I'd say I'm 80% sure Clap is against us (wolf/sorceror?), when I run through the scenarios in my head, I think we gain more in the long-run by letting it play itself out.

BTW, can someone tell me what the sorceror role is? Is that the same thing as Cultist I saw in another game? (even if it is, please give me the run-down to be sure I remember stuff correctly if ya don't mind).

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 05:53 PM

Yes, the Sorceror is someone who knows who all the wolves are to start, but the wolves don't know who they are.

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 05:54 PM

But they count as a villager in the final ratio (but of course, will vote with the wolves in endgame).

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 05:59 PM

If clap is indeed the sorceror, that's a win for the wolves, but alas, I was forced into it. Hopefully he's a witch!

J23 · 10-01-2009, 06:06 PM

So we don't have to dig it up later, here's what happened to save Clap:

Code:

 
 
Start (Post 203)                          Clap 6 - Pass 4 - Jackal 4
Pass unvotes Me to vote Jackal            Clap 6 - Pass 4 - Jackal 5
GE unvotes Clap to vote Pass              Clap 5 - Pass 5 - Jackal 5
Schmidty unvotes Clap to vote Jackal      Clap 4 - Pass 5 - Jackal 6
Kwhit unvotes Jackal to vote Pass         Clap 5 - Pass 6 - Jackal 5

Someone please double check if you don't mind.

Schmidty · 10-01-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

That's the thing - a fake reveal BG can last longer than a fake reveal seer, though. If you don't die, you can say it's because the wolves don't know who you protected night 1 and therefore don't know your protection pattern and don't want to risk losing a NK. And they'd rather go after a random person who could be the seer, because the seer can devastate the wolves chances by revealing 2-3+ scans.

What if the Seer hits on a wolf day 1. Do they reveal right away and ask to be guarded at night so they can get a total of 2 scans and a guaranteed wolf? I just don't think that 2 scans are enough for "devastation", although getting a wolf would be huge.

Anyway, I'm buying The Jackyl more than I am clap, so for now:

Vote clap

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 06:24 PM

I was saying 2-3+, Schmidty, 'cause there's only 15 of us, and after 3 days the pressure will be on the seer to reveal if they have pertinent information, depending on how the game is going.

Abe Sargent · 10-01-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

heh, whatever lynch me or not, we have jackyl as a wolf, while not a fair trade thats all i get.

make sure you take looks at danny and abe

abe jumped on my twice already, and danny is making shit up about my habits of revealing. which is bull shit and wrong.

I would welcome scanning.

Schmidty · 10-01-2009, 07:05 PM

So, we basically have a wolf - clap or The Jackal. Either we get one today, or tomorrow.

How many wolves do you guys think are in this game? 2 or 3?

hoopsguy · 10-01-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

If I vote, I'll vote for Hoopsguy

Typical.

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 07:28 PM

There should be 3, Schmidty. Maybe even 3 and a sorceror, but bare minimum 3.

hoopsguy · 10-01-2009, 07:30 PM

VOTE BARKEEP49

Lathum · 10-01-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J23

I believe Jackal over Clap. Do we gain more by lynching him now though?

If we(those that are of the same opinion as me) are right, and he's a wolf, if we lynch him that's great. We killed one.

If we're wrong, and he is the BG, if we don't lynch him, he'll have a chance at a lucky block as long as we leave him alive, or he'll be NK'd and it will be proven he was the BG and we know that Jackal is a wolf.

Can someone tell me if I'm crazy here for thinking we might be better off focusing on other people and letting the wolves show us who the BG is with their NKs?

I am not a fan of this but I will keep the reasons to myself for now.

For arguments sake who do you suggest we vote than?

Autumn · 10-01-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

The residents of Salem Village are gathered again in the town meeting space, the conversation even more dour after the death of two of their neighbors - one by their own hands, one by foul magic. Arguments break out as two of the village people point fingers at each other, cries of "Liar" and "Witch" sound out. It is only early morning and it will be another long desperate day in Salem.

Current Vote Count as of post 341

Claphamsa 5 - TheJackal Danny PurdueBrad AbeSargent Schmidty
The Jackal 1 - Claphamsa

I am out until morning. Have fun.

Danny · 10-01-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

i have no revealed early... once! and thats cuz i had to work...... so......

Re-read because that's what I said, you rarely reveal early as in you usually reveal very late or not at all. That was consistent with your pattern here. The initial two paragraphs of that post were summarizing the analysis, the last one is why I came to the conclusion to vote you.

Danny · 10-01-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Yeah, but it would be smarter for the seer to scan other people, as the good/bad between me and clap will come out on its own.

This, seer should not be scanning either Jackal or Clap because yes then they would know who is a wolf, but then would have to reveal.

GoldenEagle · 10-01-2009, 09:32 PM

Jackal,

What is your reason for coming out and revealing that you are the actual bodyguard?

Danny · 10-01-2009, 09:34 PM

On the scenario of waiting, I believe you always go for the wolf. If we find the wolf first, we are golden. If we miss, we still have a decent voting record to go on for our next lynches. If we don't know which between the two is a wolf, our record of what to go on is not clear.

Abe Sargent · 10-01-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

On the scenario of waiting, I believe you always go for the wolf. If we find the wolf first, we are golden. If we miss, we still have a decent voting record to go on for our next lynches. If we don't know which between the two is a wolf, our record of what to go on is not clear.

Yup, totally agree.

The Jackal · 10-01-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Jackal,

What is your reason for coming out and revealing that you are the actual bodyguard?

I went over that at length earlier today..

The way the vote turned out day 1, it was clear I was going to be the main target for lynching today, and I decided to reveal straight off instead of waiting until near the deadline and hoping people would look another way. And I know that clap is not the BG, which suggests he is a wolf, and it seems a decent tradeoff, considering I was going to be drawing heat from the village anyways.

Schmidty · 10-01-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

On the scenario of waiting, I believe you always go for the wolf. If we find the wolf first, we are golden. If we miss, we still have a decent voting record to go on for our next lynches. If we don't know which between the two is a wolf, our record of what to go on is not clear.

Yeah, not to be insulting to people who want to wait, but I think this is a no-brainer.

Darth Vilus · 10-02-2009, 12:03 AM

are we seriously in this same mess again? how this blows.

Vote Clap

if he's innocent then jackyl's next

10-01-2009, 05:15 PM	#323
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	heh, whatever lynch me or not, we have jackyl as a wolf, while not a fair trade thats all i get. make sure you take looks at danny and abe abe jumped on my twice already, and danny is making shit up about my habits of revealing. which is bull shit and wrong. __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

10-01-2009, 07:05 PM	#337
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	So, we basically have a wolf - clap or The Jackal. Either we get one today, or tomorrow. How many wolves do you guys think are in this game? 2 or 3? __________________ Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross

10-01-2009, 09:32 PM	#345
GoldenEagle Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Little Rock, AR	Jackal, What is your reason for coming out and revealing that you are the actual bodyguard? __________________ Xbox 360 Gamer Tag: GoldenEagle014

10-02-2009, 12:03 AM	#350
Darth Vilus College Benchwarmer Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: SoCal	are we seriously in this same mess again? how this blows. Vote Clap if he's innocent then jackyl's next __________________ "Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody power, the other to crave it." ―Darth Bane "Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you…" ―Darth Plagueis the Wise

10-01-2009, 04:38 PM	#301
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	What about the seer, danny?

10-01-2009, 04:39 PM	#303
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Oh, I think I follow you.

10-01-2009, 04:40 PM	#307
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Wow I really need to read all the posts before commenting. Looks like they both revealed as BG.

10-01-2009, 04:53 PM	#321
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Clap revealed before deadline. He actually often does not do that with a role. This was clearly done to save himself if he is the BG or to save himself and potentially get a real BG reveal if he is a wolf. Jackal really had no reason to reveal if he was a wolf unless he simply expected him to be a primary lynch candidate. Certainly not a guarantee with. If he is a wolf and does not counter right away, the opportunity is gone for a counter later. If he is the BG, he made the right play. That way we can address this issue now and have meaningful voting records. And as I said earlier, a reveal later when needed quite possibly wouldn't be believed anyway. I am going to vote Clap at this point. This isn't a usual first reveal case because Clap revealed to save himself from lynch, not because he had found a wolf. And Jackyl was not caught as a wolf when he revealed. Vote Claphamsa

10-01-2009, 05:22 PM	#324
J23 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2009	I believe Jackal over Clap. Do we gain more by lynching him now though? If we(those that are of the same opinion as me) are right, and he's a wolf, if we lynch him that's great. We killed one. If we're wrong, and he is the BG, if we don't lynch him, he'll have a chance at a lucky block as long as we leave him alive, or he'll be NK'd and it will be proven he was the BG and we know that Jackal is a wolf. Can someone tell me if I'm crazy here for thinking we might be better off focusing on other people and letting the wolves show us who the BG is with their NKs?

10-01-2009, 05:44 PM	#326
lerriuqs High School Varsity Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Saskatchewan	The issue could also be solved for us by the seer if we wait as suggested.

10-01-2009, 05:46 PM	#327
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Yeah, but it would be smarter for the seer to scan other people, as the good/bad between me and clap will come out on its own.

10-01-2009, 05:47 PM	#328
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Still, I've always been a proponent of going after a wolf when you think you have one. But I'm not in a position to push anyone, and J's idea isn't terrible. See what the rest of people think.

10-01-2009, 05:51 PM	#329
J23 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2009	I'm still pretty new to this, so I don't want to lead us down the wrong path, but even if I'd say I'm 80% sure Clap is against us (wolf/sorceror?), when I run through the scenarios in my head, I think we gain more in the long-run by letting it play itself out. BTW, can someone tell me what the sorceror role is? Is that the same thing as Cultist I saw in another game? (even if it is, please give me the run-down to be sure I remember stuff correctly if ya don't mind).

10-01-2009, 05:53 PM	#330
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Yes, the Sorceror is someone who knows who all the wolves are to start, but the wolves don't know who they are.

10-01-2009, 05:54 PM	#331
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	But they count as a villager in the final ratio (but of course, will vote with the wolves in endgame).

10-01-2009, 05:59 PM	#332
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	If clap is indeed the sorceror, that's a win for the wolves, but alas, I was forced into it. Hopefully he's a witch!

10-01-2009, 06:24 PM	#335
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I was saying 2-3+, Schmidty, 'cause there's only 15 of us, and after 3 days the pressure will be on the seer to reveal if they have pertinent information, depending on how the game is going.

10-01-2009, 07:28 PM	#339
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	There should be 3, Schmidty. Maybe even 3 and a sorceror, but bare minimum 3.

10-01-2009, 07:30 PM	#340
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	VOTE BARKEEP49

10-01-2009, 09:34 PM	#346
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	On the scenario of waiting, I believe you always go for the wolf. If we find the wolf first, we are golden. If we miss, we still have a decent voting record to go on for our next lynches. If we don't know which between the two is a wolf, our record of what to go on is not clear.

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