Game of Thrones on HBO

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

There's so many similarly interesting stories through history that it really makes me marvel at how poorly they teach history at a high school level. I was never engaged in history class, and I always remember history texts being particularly dense and flavorless....like 3 columns of tiny type, per page, restricted to only the briefest, most boring and flavorless reports of history that could be imagined. I'm sure plenty of folks had teachers who were able to work around those restrictions and make things engaging, but none of them were at my high school.

Yep. I've always had an interest in history, and picked Ancient History as a class in my final two years of school. Our teacher was a woman obsessed with Hatshepsut, and we spent literally 2 years on her alone, having to cram the entire Peloponnesian War into two weeks (including a weekend cram session at the teacher's house), and it soured me on history for years, right up until I read my mum's copy of Shogun.

Reading through Susan Wise Bauer's really excellent History of the Ancient World years later, there are so many fascinating (and rather sick/depraved - yes, I'm looking at you, Atreus) real/semi-mythical events that would have completely hooked me in back when I was 16 or 17 and maybe led me down a different path.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Who do we think Ariya is inevitably going to kill?

Because that's basically all she's done, since she poked needle through that boy?

[PilotMan]

Her origin story reminds me of the way that villains are created. I had thought that because of all the horror she watched against her family and friends, because of her hell bent attitude toward revenge that she keeps her promises to kill and takes out all of them with little to no regard for the balance of power or the ramifications of her actions.

I don't think that she'll turn out to be a villain in the end now though, but I still think it would be cool if she did.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Because that's basically all she's done, since she poked needle through that boy?

I rephrase the question;

Who do we think Ariya is going to go all faceless man on?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I rephrase the question;

Who do we think Ariya is going to go all faceless man on?

It's a little anticlimactic if Arya goes all Ninja on someone we don't like, and she was lectured about asking questions. So what if it's Jon?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I rephrase the question;

Who do we think Ariya is going to go all faceless man on?

My bad, I read 'who' as 'why' in your original post.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I rephrase the question;

Who do we think Ariya is going to go all faceless man on?

Tyrion would be interesting.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Who do we think Ariya is inevitably going to kill?

I think she's similar in size enough to King Tommen that I could see her killing Cersei

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Her origin story reminds me of the way that villains are created.

I am on the side that thinks the her in this sentence should refer to Dany not Aria.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Her origin story reminds me of the way that villains are created. I had thought that because of all the horror she watched against her family and friends, because of her hell bent attitude toward revenge that she keeps her promises to kill and takes out all of them with little to no regard for the balance of power or the ramifications of her actions.

I don't think that she'll turn out to be a villain in the end now though, but I still think it would be cool if she did.

That's actually an interesting thought i had as well that would seem to follow the GRRM style of character development. Take the hero, and make them do things uncharacteristic of a hero, and take the villain and make them relatable.

I suspect perhaps somebody we wouldn't dare suspect her to be capable of killing. Such as someone in her own family. That would also explain the need to emphasize her training and seeming deprogramming.

[Coffee Warlord]

Ya know. Blood of my Blood is the title of the next episode.

Yes, there's the direct Dothraki reference there. BUT.

Ned Stark, Episode 1 - "You might not have my name, but you have my blood."

Do we finally get our Tower of Joy? (yeah, I'm stretching here, but usually their show titles have meanings withing meanings. Pretty please?)

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Just taking stock of where we're at halfway through this season.

King's Landing - Nothing has changed.

The Wall - Jon & Sansa are together. And still haven't gone south.

Across the Sea - Dany has an army (but bigger!). And no way to get it across the sea. Still. Nothing has changed.

Bran - Knows a few bombshells (except for the one we WANT to see), and is now back to where he was 2 seasons ago - in the tundra running from ice zombies.

Arya - Yep. More training. Followed by more training.

Dorne - Fuck Dorne.

We're halfway through the season, 2 more wolves down, and in reality, not a lot of pieces have advanced beyond where they were to start the season.

This is exactly my view of the season, the people suggesting we are moving at breakneck speeds I just don't get. This show hasn't been interesting since about season 4.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Do we finally get our Tower of Joy?

Wouldn't be surprised if we don't get that until the last episode of the season.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

As much as it pains me to say it I'm sorta Team Lannister...And unlike the Starks, they are expert "game players"...

Apologies for blowing you out of the water here, but Cersei is fucking awful at the game. As in, catastrophically terrible. Her mismanagement of power is exactly why King's Landing is in the shit place it is right now with the Faith Militant. And Jaime isn't really any better - or at least, we don't have any reason to think he is.

The only reason to think that they are any 'better' than the Starks is that the Starks don't really play the game at all. Except for maybe Sansa, and she's still relatively new and weak. And I'm totally in the camp that Littlefinger played her like a fiddle in the interaction at Mole's Town.

[jeff061]

Cersei is awful and Jamie doesn't really want to play, just wants to be by his sister. The family has been circling the drain since Tywin died.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Cersei is fucking awful at the game. As in, catastrophically terrible. Her mismanagement of power is exactly why King's Landing is in the shit place it is right now with the Faith Militant.

And her brilliant solution to the problem is to let Tyrell's army into the gates. Between that and Frankenmountain, I can't see how something doesn't blow up in her face again.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by jeff061

This is exactly my view of the season, the people suggesting we are moving at breakneck speeds I just don't get. This show hasn't been interesting since about season 4.

Why are you in this thread then?

[jeff061]

For discussion around a show I'm watching?

[MrBug708]

I don't watch shows I find uninteresting. I think that was his point

[jeff061]

Yeah, I didn't want to humor that moronic point of view. New show? Yeah I'm checking out. 5 seasons invested and the end around the corner? I'll stretch my patience.

Sorry if I triggered any delicate sensibilities with my very minor comment or if I missed the positive comments only disclaimer.

[Neon_Chaos]

This was a great episode. Specially for book readers.

[MrBug708]

A girl has a name and it's vengeance

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Who do we think Ariya is inevitably going to kill?

Cersei is going to end up killing Tomme.

Arya will end up killing Cersei.
But be cornered and dying, but warging into Nymeria

[Neon_Chaos]

#WeWantBronn

Six episodes in, still no Ian McShane

[Solecismic]

There is no way to give a bad speech in Dothraki. Imagine that at halftime of some Hollywood version of an NFL game. The players wouldn't understand a single word, but they'd go out there and win one for the khal.

In a way, I'm glad Arya didn't become a Ninja. We're starting to connect more to the Stark family again, and less to the concept that it just happened to be so much of the first book, but only a small percentage of the vast number of storylines afterward. If she had made that kill, what is a faceless one? It couldn't have remained interesting unless she went after a relative.

Tywin was reincarnated... OK, we need one of those, but I'd like Sam better if he found a different way to piss him off. He may be more worthy of the sword, but it wasn't an honorable exit.

Benjen sighting... I was wondering if we'd get one. I'm still struggling with the Bran storyline. How do you live with the understanding that your most loyal employee relived his own horrifying death every moment of the last, what, 15 years? And how does time travel work, exactly? Butterflies in Africa seem nervous now.

I find it hard to believe Tommen is still alive. Or any of the Baratheon/Lannister crowd.

[Ned Doolittle]

I know you book readers have your thing cuz, you read the books and have more insight, but one request:

Stop making references that the Starks will warg into anything. The show has established there is only one Stark warg - Bran. From the very beginning its only been Bran - in the show.

I didn't quite understand the High Sparrow's play here. I know the church/crown Union makes it hard for the Tyrells and Lannisters to make a move against the church, but I didn't get Lady Tyrell's comment that "they lost" against him. He can still be assassinated while putting in a puppet High Sparrow. What changed here? And what does that mean for Margaery - I thought she was playing the High Sparrow just to get out but if the church/crown Union is as crushing a blow as its made out to be then what is she doing? This whole episode lost me as far as who played what card. But Jaime riding up the steps on the horse was pure awesome.

[MrBug708]

I thought she said we lost, implying the Sparrow beat them?

[Groundhog]

I think the loss was the fact that the King came out and declared himself equal to the church... I don't know if they'd even have the power to install a puppet anymore, and killing the High Sparrow is likely to lead to all out rebellion by the peasants.

Margaery's expression when she saw her troops makes me think she manipulated the King because she thought it was the only way she was going to prevent herself from doing the walk. I can see the King doing a total 180 on the high sparrow, but not Margaery.

[Ned Doolittle]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I thought she said we lost, implying the Sparrow beat them?

Sorry, by my "they" comment I was referring to Tyrells/Lannisters.

[Ned Doolittle]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I think the loss was the fact that the King came out and declared himself equal to the church... I don't know if they'd even have the power to install a puppet anymore, and killing the High Sparrow is likely to lead to all out rebellion by the peasants.

Margaery's expression when she saw her troops makes me think she manipulated the King because she thought it was the only way she was going to prevent herself from doing the walk. I can see the King doing a total 180 on the high sparrow, but not Margaery.

so you're saying Margaery was surprised to see the Tyrell army? Interesting. Before the church/crown reveal I read her expression as "relief", in the sense that her family was there to save her.

Also if the Kingsguard is now protecting both church and crown doesn't that mean ZombieMountain will be blocked from being Cersei's champion cuz technically he's in the Kingsguard?

[Edward64]

Enjoyed the episode but was hoping for a bloodbath (but it'll come sooner or later).

I liked the Arya and Sam story lines. The High Sparrow and Jaime scene seemed too rush (and unsatisfying). Bran and Benji, eh too weird and never understood time travel. Jaime and Cersei together again, yes that's how it should be. Danaerys was fantastic.

[JPhillips]

The green screens were not good. Both the Jamie and Danny scenes had poor looking backgrounds.

[bronconick]

Small quibble, but Benjen's speech should have been the end of the episode, not Dany's. Hers felt tacked on.

[claphamsa]

loved the episode as always, but i thought Danny's speech was 100% unnecessary and added nothing.

[Ned Doolittle]

The only thing I took Dany's speech as meaning was it was probably the official "Dany is now officially starting the process to march on Westeros". Gripes have been heard in the past about her just content to go around freeing slaves, and it appeared for some time she went off track from the overall plan. Now she's officially back on track.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Yeah, I didn't want to humor that moronic point of view. New show? Yeah I'm checking out. 5 seasons invested and the end around the corner? I'll stretch my patience.

Sorry if I triggered any delicate sensibilities with my very minor comment or if I missed the positive comments only disclaimer.

My, my, so sensitive. I merely asked why you watched if that was your opinion of the show. Which you did at least answer, fair enough. I would have hoped you would be less insulting in response, but it appears that my standards for you and your standards for the show are equally too lofty.

[Neon_Chaos]

We are going to the Riverlands!

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

I didn't quite understand the High Sparrow's play here. I know the church/crown Union makes it hard for the Tyrells and Lannisters to make a move against the church, but I didn't get Lady Tyrell's comment that "they lost" against him. He can still be assassinated while putting in a puppet High Sparrow. What changed here?

I had the same reaction to the dialog between Jaime and Cersei. Jaime says he's going to get Bronn to assemble a bunch of the worst killers he can find to take out the High Sparrow, and Cersei's able to dissuade him using the reasoning of "but you'd never make it out alive, and we need you alive"....uhhh yeah, didn't I explicitly say Bronn and a bunch of other killers? Judging by the six dozen other unresolved assassinations that make up the show's plot I dunno that slick medieval detective work or swift reprisal would really be a concern for a noble like Jaime.

They tried to explicitly insist several times over that the High Sparrow had achieved some sort of invincible position, but I wasn't really buying. If I were in the Lannister's/Tyrell's shoes I certainly might be convinced that slaying the High Sparrow would result in someone immediately rising up in his place, and/or that the populace would revolt, and/or that the King and Queen are under the sway of the church....but I think I'd be willing to bet that all of those things are dependent on the remarkable person & tact of the current High Sparrow, and all of those things could be handled much easier if he were removed from the situation entirely, rather than trying to play the game with/against him & the church for potentially dozens more years. Given the ruthless game players they've shown both the Tyrells and Lannisters to be I didn't feel that they presented adequate reasoning for both families essentially giving up.

[Groundhog]

I think this is one of those things that is hard to show in the series with about 5 minutes to dedicate to it each week. What I imagine we're supposed to think is that the High Sparrow has complete sway over the population within Kings Landing right now, and with the King basically making himself level to the church, he's Westeros' version of the Pope.

I think it's happened a little too quickly without enough screen time to feel legit (although it felt a little forced in the books to me too), and I don't really find the nobles reactions to it 'realistic', or at least not in character. I think he would have been snuffed out a lot earlier than now, even with how bad things have been int he capital since the first season.

Having said that, the argument could also be made that this is no different from what's happening with the Red Woman and her faith, the dragons, the white walkers, etc. but it's a more mundane type of religion, faith instead of magic.

[flere-imsaho]

I think Groundhog's exactly right.

[Coffee Warlord]

So I just had a very interesting theory pop into my head. I don't know if it'll work in the shows, because they haven't established some of the rules on Champions in trials by combat. BUT.

So. Cersei demands trial by combat. Due to her being part of the Royal Family, she's supposed to have a member of the Kingsguard be her champion. Tommen's Kingsguard appears to now be Church Approved Only (you saw the symbol of the Seven on their armor now).

Think Zombie Mountain is Church Approved now? I wonder if the High Sparrow will insist that Zombie Mountain can no longer be a member of the new, Holy Kingsguard. And thus, Cersei's choice of champion (and trump card) is gone.

[bhlloy]

I wasn't a massive fan of the last episode. A lot things seem to be veering into serious deus ex machina territory and the plot holes are getting larger

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is what Littlefingers angle is - seems clear that he's directed the Stark faction to a battle with the Bolton faction, but is he aware that the Lannister army is now planning to show up? Is his plan to ride in with the Knights of the Vale on the side of whoever seems to be winning, and was that his plan all along or just after Sansa rejected him?

[Logan]

Can someone point me toward a quick synopsis of Blackfish/Riverrun and what the heck is going on there? I was completely lost during that whole Walter Frey segment of this past episode.

[ISiddiqui]

If you kill the High Sparrow now you make him into a martyr and the people will rip the Lannisters and Tyrells down from their positions of power. That's what it means by he has won. He's gotten the King to admit the equality of the Faith to the Crown in front of the people who cheered wildly. If he gets assassinated, the people of King's Landing wouldn't stand for it.

Anyways, in the Riverlands it seems they are teasing book readers:

Spoiler

Brienne AND Jamie heading to the Riverlands. Lord Frey referencing the Red Wedding AND the Brotherhood without Banners? Bran flashing back to Cat? Resume the Lady Stoneheart watch!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Logan

Can someone point me toward a quick synopsis of Blackfish/Riverrun and what the heck is going on there? I was completely lost during that whole Walter Frey segment of this past episode.

The Blackfish escaped when the Freys took Riverrun after the Red Wedding (after capturing Edmure Tully and putting him in the dungeons). So the Blackfish has returned and has retaken Riverrun. The Freys desperately want it back.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is what Littlefingers angle is - seems clear that he's directed the Stark faction to a battle with the Bolton faction, but is he aware that the Lannister army is now planning to show up? Is his plan to ride in with the Knights of the Vale on the side of whoever seems to be winning, and was that his plan all along or just after Sansa rejected him?

The Lannisters aren't going to the North. They are going to the Riverlands.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

The Lannisters aren't going to the North. They are going to the Riverlands.

Isn't that where Jon, Brienne and the Wildlings are also going?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Isn't that where Jon, Brienne and the Wildlings are also going?

Brienne, yes. Jon and the Wildlings are rounding up some Northern families and heading to Winterfell.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

If you kill the High Sparrow now you make him into a martyr and the people will rip the Lannisters and Tyrells down from their positions of power. That's what it means by he has won. He's gotten the King to admit the equality of the Faith to the Crown in front of the people who cheered wildly. If he gets assassinated, the people of King's Landing wouldn't stand for it.

Yeah, I get that was the suggestion, it just wasn't presented well enough to be believable....especially considering that there are now two of Westeros'es largest armies in King's Landing. Likewise, I think the more power and influence they show the High Sparrow quickly gaining in King's Landing works as a deterrent for the Lannisters, but I'd imagine the Tyrells would be only MORE motivated to wipe him out, considering the threat he presents....the Tyrells would likely much prefer a dead High Sparrow, a revolt in King's Landing, and even the potential loss of their Queenship (especially considering that it's already been greatly compromised) versus the alternative of letting the High Sparrow's power and influence spread similarly unchecked into Highgarden.

[ISiddiqui]

That's one Hell of a price to pay, especially since it may put the heads of the household at risk. Remember Sansa almost got raped (and Lollys Stokeworth definitely did) when the people rioted against King Joffery.

A sustained revolt, led by a secondary Sparrow could be disastrous for the realm.