Game of Thrones on HBO

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by sabotai

The young woman was Lyanna Stark, Ned's sister. If I remember correctly, she said (when you could actually hear her) "You have to pretend. Promise me, Ned". Close up of baby's face, cut to close up of Jon Snow's face.

It confirmed the R+L=J theory that Jon Snow is the child of Rhaegar Targaryan and Lyanna Stark.

She also said something along the lines of "Robert will kill him".

The R+L=J theory played out more or less as it was teased since the beginning.

[The Jackal]

Gonna be fun when Jon marries his aunt.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Gonna be fun when Jon marries his aunt.

It's the Targaryen way.

[The Jackal]

Also, that was just an awesome couple of episodes. The whole sequence at the beginning of the episode with the music leading up to the trial and then the wildfire was so well done.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Also, that was just an awesome couple of episodes. The whole sequence at the beginning of the episode with the music leading up to the trial and then the wildfire was so well done.

Definitely, the music set the tone perfectly.

[Coffee Warlord]

Light Of The Seven (Game of Thrones Season 6: Official Soundtrack) - YouTube

Said tune.

[ISiddiqui]

Very well done episode and Cersei became a badass... Though Jamie will not approve.

Also Sansa realizes she needs Littlefinger if she wants to rule in the North. I don't think she realized they would go for Jon (who, of course no one realizes is a Targaryen, which may not help him in the North - after all, Jon's grandfather killed Ned's father and brother) over Ned's oldest trueborn daughter.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yeah, that was my first thought as well - what happens when they all find out he's a Targaryen?

Then again, will they find out? It looks like Bran is the only one who knows, and the only reason he knows is because...he touched a tree? How will that fly?

[bronconick]

Well, Meera's dad could show up and spill the beans but he's probably rowing with Gendry

[Atocep]

What motivation would Bran have to give up that information unless it was vital for one reason or another?

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Atocep

What motivation would Bran have to give up that information unless it was vital for one reason or another?

I'm going to assume it's going to be pretty damned important when Danaerys comes storming in to conquer the seven kingdoms, since Jon is now the King in the North.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Well, Meera's dad could show up and spill the beans but he's probably rowing with Gendry

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

By the by. Screw the King in the North. There is only one Queen in the North, and her name is Lyanna Mormont.

She was good.

It was a great season finale.

[thesloppy]

Lady Mormont:

Half Baked: Scarface quits his job - YouTube

[Radii]

Usually its the expensive, action packed 9th episode of a Game of Thrones season that is my favorite in any given year, while the finale wraps up some nice things and sets up what is to come. Not this year. Holy crap that was freaking amazing. In a very many ways in both this episode and the last one they did the obvious thing. Everything hinted at happened, from the wildfire to Arya killing Walder Frey to R+L=J being confirmed. But if you tell the story well, that's quite alright. This was extremely satisfying.

Lastly, how bout that library? Wildfire, OMG Library, Dragons Shadows over the fleet, nice competition for my favorite shot of the episode between those three.

[Chief Rum]

There was so much win in this episode.

[Neon_Chaos]

That blew episode 9 out of the water.

[SteveMax58]

Awesome episode as everyone else has said.

Question on Cersei's coronation though.....was she crowned because she's the queen regent? Like why isn't Jaime the king, being the male Lannister?

Also.....any bets on which dragon Jon will end up riding? Other than Dany of course.

[SteveMax58]

Also.....the tower of joy scene does confirm that Jon Snow indeed knows nothing.

[Easy Mac]

Im not certain, but shouldn't Ser Pounce have been crowned king instead of Cersei?

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Question on Cersei's coronation though.....was she crowned because she's the queen regent? Like why isn't Jaime the king, being the male Lannister?

The Lannister line has no claim to the throne...the Baratheon line does. But with Robert having no more living children, no more living siblings and (presumably) no living cousins, the Baratheon line is now extinct. Since Cersei is the closest thing to a Baratheon (by marriage, of course), I assume she took the throne based on that fact alone.

[Logan]

Nothing more to add besides I loved it. Can't wait to watch again.

[Coffee Warlord]

By the way, calling it now.

The Fleet arrives at King's Landing. Cercei will want to go full Mad King and burn it all. And Jaime will do what Jaime does best to those who want to burn it all.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Question on Cersei's coronation though.....was she crowned because she's the queen regent? Like why isn't Jaime the king, being the male Lannister?

Her regency ended the moment Tommen made his King's landing with no heir.

At which point who holds the Throne, holds the Seven Kingdoms.

Cersei's got Qyburn and, critically, the Mountain in her corner.

Most of the Great Houses are in disarray to greater or lesser degree, or else not focused on the Iron Throne.

The character with the strongest extant claim to the Throne at this point is Daenerys, and she's on her way; Tyrell and Martell appear to be backing her; Frey is headless (for the moment); Stark is focused on the threat from the Night's King; the Blackfish is dead, and Edmure Tully is a prisoner of the Freys (presumably Arya didn't stop by the dungeons to free him after offing Walder); Littlefinger's army basically just declared for Jon Snow, which neuters him as a threat for the Throne for the time being; and Greyjoy is in the middle of an internecine civil war. Yara is backing the Targaryen play, while Euron wants to co-opt it (and with 13 episodes left, are we going to see Euron play a role in the Targaryen re-invasion, or is Yara's successful pact with Dany the end of Euron's storyline?).

At that point, who's left? Is there a Great House I'm missing who has both a presence in King's Landing and the forces to make a play for the Iron Throne?

So it's Cersei's, for now, possession being 9/10 of the law.

The question now is who the valonqar is; is Jaime going to back Cersei's play here, given their "fuck the world" moment of solidarity after Myrcella's death, or is he going to unite the belts and be Kingslayer, Queenslayer, and Kinslayer simultaneously?

[Vince, Pt. II]

Is Edmure back in chains? I'd think since he sold out his uncle he'd be back to holding Riverrun, wouldn't he?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Is Edmure back in chains? I'd think since he sold out his uncle he'd be back to holding Riverrun, wouldn't he?

Walder made a comment to that effect while he was celebrating with Jaime.

"Can't go killing my son by law, wouldn't be right." So he's in a cell.

[Kodos]

Great episode. This is why GOT is the best show on TV. Wish we got more Arya, but what we got of her was great.

Also glad that the Sparrow and his flock were wiped out.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Very well done episode and Cersei became a badass... Though Jamie will not approve.

Also Sansa realizes she needs Littlefinger if she wants to rule in the North. I don't think she realized they would go for Jon (who, of course no one realizes is a Targaryen, which may not help him in the North - after all, Jon's grandfather killed Ned's father and brother) over Ned's oldest trueborn daughter.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I'm not sure Sansa *wants* to rule. I got the sense that she wanted Jon to be Lord of Winterfell and (like Lady Mormont) didn't really care about his putative bastardy. Lady Mormont and the rest of the bannermen proclaiming for Jon suited her purposes perfectly, if I'm reading that little smile on her face correctly. Having Jon as Lord of Winterfell/the new King in the North means that Littlefinger can't try to manipulate her for control, and having the Knights of the Vale join the acclamation means that he's lost his biggest chip in his play for the Iron Throne.

She's home, she's escaped the grasp of two ambitious men (with Joffrey and Ramsay dead) and seen the machinations of a third who wanted to ensnare her fall apart. She's got what she wants, for the moment.

[ISiddiqui]

I read it as a smile initially until she realized that she wouldn't be Queen in the North and looked agitated and searched out for Littlefinger's face - which basically said you need me if you want to rule. And I think Sansa does - so she is not ruled.

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by sabotai

The young woman was Lyanna Stark, Ned's sister. If I remember correctly, she said (when you could actually hear her) "You have to pretend. Promise me, Ned". Close up of baby's face, cut to close up of Jon Snow's face.

It confirmed the R+L=J theory that Jon Snow is the child of Rhaegar Targaryan and Lyanna Stark.

I heard that as 'you have to protect him, promise me, ned. garble garble garble or else he will kill him', or something along those lines. I do think it was 'protect' though and not 'pretend', not that it really matters though. pretend/protect...bottom line, take care of the boy as if he was yours.

BUT, what in the world did she say before that? She clearly said something else, but I wasn't able to hear it at all. I think I heard...'his name is....' and then nothing after that, but that could be my mind playing tricks on me. Did anyone have subtitles on? I haven't browsed reddit today yet.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

The character with the strongest extant claim to the Throne at this point is Daenerys,

Jon (Targaryen) - the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna (speculation is that it was probably a legal second marriage)

The question now is who the valonqar is; is Jaime going to back Cersei's play here, given their "fuck the world" moment of solidarity after Myrcella's death, or is he going to unite the belts and be Kingslayer, Queenslayer, and Kinslayer simultaneously?

While Cersei has always thought it was Tyrion, the speculation is that it was going to be Jaime.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by hollmt

I heard that as 'you have to protect him, promise me, ned. garble garble garble or else he will kill him', or something along those lines. I do think it was 'protect' though and not 'pretend', not that it really matters though. pretend/protect...bottom line, take care of the boy as if he was yours.

BUT, what in the world did she say before that? She clearly said something else, but I wasn't able to hear it at all. I think I heard...'his name is....' and then nothing after that, but that could be my mind playing tricks on me. Did anyone have subtitles on? I haven't browsed reddit today yet.

The subtitles said "whispering" ... so yeah.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I read it as a smile initially until she realized that she wouldn't be Queen in the North and looked agitated and searched out for Littlefinger's face - which basically said you need me if you want to rule. And I think Sansa does - so she is not ruled.

She smiled at Jon when he stood up during the acclamation, and she smiled when she searched out Littlefinger. The unease/agitation didn't happen until she locked eyes with him. Whatever unnerved her, it wasn't the realization that Jon was going to rule; being ruled by Littlefinger would be exchanging one ruler for another. I don't think fear of being ruled by Jon is what caused the smile to disappear.

Originally Posted by hollmt

I heard that as 'you have to protect him, promise me, ned. garble garble garble or else he will kill him', or something along those lines. I do think it was 'protect' though and not 'pretend', not that it really matters though. pretend/protect...bottom line, take care of the boy as if he was yours.

BUT, what in the world did she say before that? She clearly said something else, but I wasn't able to hear it at all. I think I heard...'his name is....' and then nothing after that, but that could be my mind playing tricks on me. Did anyone have subtitles on? I haven't browsed reddit today yet.

I had subtitles on (woo hearing impairment) and the subtitles said 'protect.' Which is also what I heard. I tried reading lips and I didn't see anything that looked like 'his name is' while her mouth was on screen. Subtitles didn't say 'his name is' either when her mouth was on screen or off.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Jon (Targaryen) - the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna (speculation is that it was probably a legal second marriage)

Right but we're talking about within the context of a claimant the Great Houses could conceivably know about. Robert Baratheon knew that Dany still lived, so it's not unreasonable to think that Great Houses without a seat on the little council might have heard the same thing.

In terms of the legal succession, which is what we're talking about when we talk about Cersei's seizure of power, she's the wife of one recently dead king and the mother of two others, and she has the Mountain in her corner. Nobody else in King's Landing is going to have a claim even THAT strong, legal or otherwise.

Jon doesn't know he has a claim, and even if he did, I suspect he would ignore that until the Night's King is dealt with. Which leaves Dany, who's on her way.

While Cersei has always thought it was Tyrion, the speculation is that it was going to be Jaime.

Could be Arya, for that matter. Did the prophecy say 'the' or 'your'? Cersei's been on Arya's list, and Walder's demise last night shows that Arya hasn't forgotten her list.

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by bronconick

The subtitles said "whispering" ... so yeah.

haha...whispering, huh? well, that narrows it down to any number of things. let the tinfoil hats commence!


figured my mind was playing tricks on me on 'his name is'. would be nice to know what was said there though. that one sentence probably answers every single question and solves all the problems in the entire story

[Ned Doolittle]

I read Sansa'a smile disappearing as while every person in the room was proclaiming Jon as their King, Littlefinger was not. She seeing that knows Littlefinger is still going to be a problem and she probably anticipates future treachery/doublecrossing on his part.

[The Jackal]

Even what Littlefinger told her about his dream was a half-lie - he's always dreamed of sitting on the Iron Throne, but Sansa being beside him is a recent, completely irrelevant and interchangeable thing depending on who gives him the best chance to achieve the actual dream. I think she knows this.

Though he was always in love with Catelyn so being in love with her daughter isn't much of a legitimate emotional stretch.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

I read Sansa'a smile disappearing as while every person in the room was proclaiming Jon as their King, Littlefinger was not. She seeing that knows Littlefinger is still going to be a problem and she probably anticipates future treachery/doublecrossing on his part.

^^this. If she had a problem with Jon Snow as the King in the North, she would not have been pressing him to be the Stark in Winterfell.

She knows what Littlefinger's ambitions are, and her reaction is much more likely about realizing that her rejection of him didn't end those ambitions.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

She smiled at Jon when he stood up during the acclamation, and she smiled when she searched out Littlefinger. The unease/agitation didn't happen until she locked eyes with him. Whatever unnerved her, it wasn't the realization that Jon was going to rule; being ruled by Littlefinger would be exchanging one ruler for another. I don't think fear of being ruled by Jon is what caused the smile to disappear.

I rewatched the scene, and yes, Sansa's smile disappears when she sees Littlefinger, but her mouth drops as if in surprise... as if she realizes what this means. So either she's like "Shit, I can't be Queen" or "Shit, Littlefinger is going to fuck this up for Jon". A power play between Sansa and Jon would be far more interesting, IMO.

Could be Arya, for that matter. Did the prophecy say 'the' or 'your'? Cersei's been on Arya's list, and Walder's demise last night shows that Arya hasn't forgotten her list.

Valonqar means "little brother" in Valyrian.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Though he was always in love with Catelyn so being in love with her daughter isn't much of a legitimate emotional stretch.

I think it's mentioned a few times how much Sansa favors her mother.

Originally Posted by SackAttack

her rejection of him didn't end those ambitions.

Why would she ever think that? Littlefinger isn't going to stop his ambitions because of a minor roadblock. Besides half of his ambition was to sit on the Iron Throne - Sansa's rejection does nothing against that.

[whomario]

Great closing Episode, imo ...

- The opening sequence of everybody getting ready for the day (mainly the trial) and the first couple shots at the sept were done masterfully, just amazing camera work

- The Wildfire scene was masterful, positively Cercei-lian

- As a librarian/historian the shot of the great library at the citadel was awesome, showing us both the magnificense of that institution and the immensity of Sams task there.

- I do think that Jaime will eventually side against Cercei and will either be killed or throw down on the side of either Dany or Jon or both. IMO the whole series has built towards him doing a Tyrion and choosing his own allegiance and cast away parts of what i presume to be a defense-mechanism. He was never given the chance to be "good" but has always shown that he understands the concept and is capable of it.

- I personally do agree that Littlefinger will still make a play, but it´s going to be an improvised one because his original play IMO has been shown as having failed. The look on him after Sansa walked away in the woods spoke volumes. I think he underestimated the "goodness" of the Starks nature (or whatever you want to call it) because it´s something he can´t comprehend, it´s just not his way and while he can certainly use it against people, in this case he couldn´t fathom Sansa actually backing her half-brother over her own claims. (or the Northerners to unite again, probably). He´s gonna be a pain, but i think now there´s a semi-decent chance he´ll fail.

- And yeah, Sansa is absolutely all in on Jon, imo. There´s no mistaken the look on her face when Lyanna Mormont gave her speech. She honestly does not care about the title, she is motivated by much the same motives as Oleanna and imo has undergone a very believable and fucking terrific building of character throughout the series.
There´s no power play happening, they moved past that when Jon admitted that Sansa saved the day and Sansa admitted (to herself, if nothing else and not only in this episode but ever since they reunited) that Jon has as much right to following her fathers legacy as she or anyone else. He´s a bloody fool and he´s a bastard (well, adopted ), but he´s also proven to her that he´s the closes thing she and the north as a whole has to a path to survival.

EDIT: That´s not to say that Sansa won´t play a huge role still and keep with the women-centric theme of the show (as of now). I kinda think it will end up as a division-of-labour thing with Sansa dealing with things in the "worldly" realm and Jon ultimately going about his "true purpose" of killing Ice-Zombies.

[stevew]

Jon Snow and Lady Mormont has to happen whenever she comes of age

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Valonqar means "little brother" in Valyrian.

My understanding is that the translation is closer to "younger sibling." Something about high Valyrian being gender neutral?

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Why would she ever think that? Littlefinger isn't going to stop his ambitions because of a minor roadblock. Besides half of his ambition was to sit on the Iron Throne - Sansa's rejection does nothing against that.

I phrased that poorly. Not that she would have thought her rejection would be the cold shower that nothing else in Westeros could throw on his ambitions, but that she thought in backing Jon, and then having the Knights of the Vale declare for Jon after Lady Mormont's speech, that Littlefinger was going to have his hand forced and have to live up to his public declaration in favor of House Stark.

As she said in the weirwood, his declarations have never stopped him from acting in his own self-interest regardless of what he declared.

Moving the Knights of the Vale from his column to House Stark's column should, rationally, have put paid to those ambitions. If he's declared publicly for House Stark, there's no going back to King's Landing. Cersei is out of fucks to give, and she's not going to forgive that.

So, I mean, of course Littlefinger's character is such that we should expect his ambitions to persist, but his character is also such that we (and Sansa) might have expected him to join the acclamation and keep his true thoughts hidden a little deeper in terms of "where do I go from here?" He didn't do that. She saw plain as day on his face that Jon Snow being acclaimed King in the North didn't do anything to derail his quest for the Iron Throne, and that means he's going to be a threat to Jon specifically.

Nobody else has a power base he can exploit right now. Who are the seven Great Houses? Baratheon, Lannister, Greyjoy, Martell, Stark, Tully, and Tyrell. Baratheon is effectively snuffed out, Lannister already sits the Iron Throne, Greyjoy is split'ish, but both Euron and Yara intend to use Dany for their purposes. Euron wants the Iron Throne, Yara wants the Seastone Chair. Greyjoy is a maritime power, though, and that isn't of benefit to Littlefinger. Martell, like Baratheon, is snuffed out, but Dorne is backing the Targaryen claim as a vengeance play. Tully's a mess. Tyrell just linked up with Martell (yes, I know it's actually Ellaria Sand, but the resources she's drawing upon at this point are still those of House Martell) to back the Targaryen play. Tully is a mess.

House Stark and the North is really the only uncommitted piece in play as far as the Iron Throne goes right now. Littlefinger would use the North to make his play for the Iron Throne. Jon is more concerned with the Night's King.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

That happened exactly as the Reddit spoilers predicted

Was that on /r/freefolk or something? I read /r/rgameofthrones pretty exhaustively and thankfully didn't run into it.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

My understanding is that the translation is closer to "younger sibling." Something about high Valyrian being gender neutral?

That is something that has come from people wanting it open to women:

Valonqar/Theories - A Wiki of Ice and Fire

Several of the people hypothesized as the Valonqar are younger sisters, because it is not solidly established that the word must refer to a male sibling. It is entirely possible that Valonqar is a gender-neutral term; that High Valyrian uses the male gender when gender is actually unknown; that Maggy is not fluent enough in High Valyrian to know or to correctly employ the gender differentiation; that she is actually speaking one of the dialects of the Free Cities that might not completely agree with High Valyrian regarding this word; although Septa Saranella's translation [1] may have been wrong, a Tyroshi who brings Cersei a dwarf's head claiming it to be Tyrion's refers to him as her 'valonqar' [2], it is still possible from this that valonqar may be gender neutral, but it's meaning of 'younger sibling' at least is confirmed. As a result, the Valonqar is generally considered to be only slightly more likely to be a man than it is to be a woman. It is worth noting that the name "Maggy" is itself suspected to be a misrepresentation of the title of Maegi.

So nothing from GRRM on it being closer to younger sibling, just people who'd like it to be someone other than Tyrion or Jaime.

Recall the original prophecy:

And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

Though folks want to attempt to indicate that Maggy didn't know the gender pronouns in the word.

She saw plain as day on his face that Jon Snow being acclaimed King in the North didn't do anything to derail his quest for the Iron Throne, and that means he's going to be a threat to Jon specifically.

Nobody else has a power base he can exploit right now. Who are the seven Great Houses? Baratheon, Lannister, Greyjoy, Martell, Stark, Tully, and Tyrell.

The Vale. The Knights may have yelled out "King in the North", but they aren't Jon's knights. They are Robin's knights and they will follow their own Lord. Littlefinger has Robin's ear (and seemingly can twist Robin along his... um... finger).

The Vale is the only place really untouched so far. True, Littlefinger wanted the Vale and the North to join for a large army, but he may have another way of achieving it. Or exploit the power vacuum in the Riverlands.

[Ryno]

If Miguel Sapochnik doesn't win best director for one of these last two episodes, there will be riots. Looks like he has a movie and TV show in the works that I'll be looking out for.

[Ryno]

Is there any precedence for mages in that world? I get the feeling that Sam is going to be a hero of the war against the White Walkers, but his combat skills are pretty meager. A fire mage would do nicely.

[Arles]

Really enjoyed the last two episodes. Can't wait for next season!

[stevew]

Satisfying finale. And has to help the show's budget a ton cause they killed off like 6-8 characters that were major recurring

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Ryno

Is there any precedence for mages in that world? I get the feeling that Sam is going to be a hero of the war against the White Walkers, but his combat skills are pretty meager. A fire mage would do nicely.

Not nescessary imo, as he´s there to gain Knowledge and that in itself has been a theme also, as in key male figures not being fit for actual battle still contributing (Tyrion for example, Bran while having magical skills is essentially getting History lessons as well, Littlefinger, Varys).

[Edward64]

Anyone else think Frey got off easy? It didn't seem to make up for the Red Wedding treachery. It seems she made that other guy suffer a lot more last season.