It's the 2011 NBA playoffs! Mavs Win!

[larrymcg421]

But they don't always pick guys like Odom. Past winners Ben Gordon, Corliss Williamson, Rodney Rodgers, Danny Manning, John Starks, Toni Kukoc, Dell Curry, Bill Walton, and Bobby Jones all had fairly low minute totals and more fit what I think of when I hear "6th man".

It's not a big deal. I just find the criteria they use to consider someone a 6th man to be pretty weird.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

But they don't always pick guys like Odom. Past winners Ben Gordon, Corliss Williamson, Rodney Rodgers, Danny Manning, John Starks, Toni Kukoc, Dell Curry, Bill Walton, and Bobby Jones all had fairly low minute totals and more fit what I think of when I hear "6th man".

It's not a big deal. I just find the criteria they use to consider someone a 6th man to be pretty weird.

were their candidates with more minutes in those years though ?

I think the criteria is the only one that makes sense, being the 6th man on the court for the majority of the games. Everything else is subjective. And if we said "but he can only average 25 MPG" that would essentially mean "best bench player that isn´t good enough to actually be playing more than 25 minutes" , now that i´d find weird

[MrBug708]

Odom started because of injuries, which is kind of what you'd expect a 6th man to do

[whomario]

couple of neat feel-good type stories on NBA players :

SI Piece on Andrew Bynum : CENTER ANDREW BYNUM IS ALWAYS TINKERING, WHETHER IT'S - 04.25.11 - SI Vault

deadspin article on unlikely connection between Kendrick Perkins and a couple NBA bloggers : Deadspin, Sports News without Access, Favor, or Discretion



OKC was impressive yesterday, Durant especially (very in controll, made very good choices with the ball) but he got tons of help from various players.
They also hacked the hell out of Nene, deciding that FTs are better to swallow than dunks.
Pretty stinging comment from Karl on why Smith and Andersen didn´t play in the 2nd half ("when they came in the floodgates opened" or sth like that)

For the Spurs Manu was back and a +16 despite not hitting a 3, going 7-13 from the line and havin 5 TOs.
Spurs look so much more fluid when he´s in, takes pressure off of everybody else.

[MikeVic]

I just came here to post about the Bynum article. Just amazing. I'd love to be in that Lakers locker room or team plane just to talk to the guys on that team. Seriously, Gasol is into opera and medicine. Bynum is a huge nerd. Odom is all about candy and the Kardashian. Artest is nuts. Phil Jackson probably can teach you a thing or two about life in general. And Kobe is Kobe.

Short summary of the article whomario linked to:
Andrew Bynum is a huge nerd | Blog Archive | The Basketball Jones | Blogs | TheScore.com

[whomario]

very impressed by both the Pacers (for playing with grit and agressiveness as huge underdogs) and the Bulls (for taking those shots and go with it), good 3 games i wouldn´t have expected.
Too bad the Pacers couldn´t take 1 of those games, would have liked this to continue longer.

Kyle Korver has been super clutch, very happy for him having such a great impact. Scored 10 points in the 4th yesterday after hitting crucial 3s late in both game 1 and 2.

Mavs let this one get away, they got what they wanted for the most part but had 1 bad stretch early in the 4th.

[SirFozzie]

Celtics taking the Knicks to the woodshed through three..

[SirFozzie]

Looks like we're going to have a couple suspensions for Orlando-Atlanta Game four after a "what are you going to do about it" headbutt and an Orlando player swinging back, and Howard gets T'd up as well.

[SirFozzie]

Dola: That three shouldn't count unless he called bank. Ri-freaking diculous.

I think he was trying for a long rebound off the rim to waste the remaining seconds.

[whomario]

the Celtics starters played ridiculously amazing, holy crap was that beautiful to watch.
How often do you have 2 guys hitting 30 and 6+ 3s and another get 20 assists (celtics playoff record) and a TD.

I know part is that the Knicks weren´t defending much, but it was still fun to observe
Allen is 15-20 from deep for the series.

[RainMaker]

That Celtics game put hope back that the Miami-Boston series could be epic.

[whomario]

Crawford on his last shot against the Magic : "I just tried to get to my comfort zone, my sweet spot," [Jamal Crawford] said. "I felt pretty good getting there. I thought I got a good look, and it just happened to go down for me."

if i were his coach i wouldn´t be sure if i should lough, cry or smack him in the face If that´s a good look than Ron Artest has good shot selection.

[Noop]

Derrick Rose = Allen Iverson?

Not exactly alike because Rose is a better teammate and is at least willing to play point guard. However I can not help but shake that feeling when I watch Rose play.

[whomario]

what stood out today was that virtually every single miss in the 2nd half was short by him, maybe that ankle was an issue afterall ? (not meant as an excuse, don´t really care about either team)
but he surely takes some dumb shots, especially threes.

But the Pacers sure tried everything to loose that game in the 4th, holy smokes were they rattled.

ugly game in Portland in the first quarter ... Barea is kind of an amazing player for his size (5´10 and alligator arms)

[whomario]

Brandon Roy turned back time, pretty much by himself brought Portland back from down 20 in the 4th, culminating in a 4 point play to tie it.

Mavs falling apart, wow ... No sets run properly, nothing in transition.

1 minute to go, tie game ... And now he banks one in over Marion, holy hell is that amazing to watch even as i´m rooting for the Mavs.

I don´t get why they wouldn´t (couldn´t ?) call that out of bounds call as a jump ball, both guys put it out equally really.

[whomario]

How don´t you foul there or at least pressure ? Holy crap was that bad, made the Pacers look like a good crunch time team.

No idea how the Mavs can come back from that for the rest of the series, holy hell was that an epic collapse/choke job.

Hats off to Roy.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Noop

Derrick Rose = Allen Iverson?

Not exactly alike because Rose is a better teammate and is at least willing to play point guard. However I can not help but shake that feeling when I watch Rose play.

His shot selection is more like Tracy McGrady. Just fallen in love with a 3 that he's not all that good at shooting.

Not feeling real confident about the Bulls going forward. Hope I'm wrong but it feels like they've been exposed.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by whomario

How don´t you foul there or at least pressure ? Holy crap was that bad, made the Pacers look like a good crunch time team.

No idea how the Mavs can come back from that for the rest of the series, holy hell was that an epic collapse/choke job.

Hats off to Roy.

Mavs will not come back.

Nuggets are done. The call in game one was disastrous and they had their chances in game three but went cold at the wrong time. OKC has a good chance to go all the way. They are long, play solid D and their superstars get them 7 or 8 calls a game. They had at least 4 laughers tonight that accounted for 8 points from the line.

Perkins gave them the toughness they needed as well.

The only other thing I'll take away from this series is the wonderment how Westbrook gets the calls he gets. He's a punk, treats the refs like garbage, and only gets opening because of Durant yet he's treated like a superstar.

There were multiple times this series he threw cheap shoulder blows into Nuggets guarding him and the refs looked the other way. I just don't get it. A guy like Rondo would average about 15 assists a game playing at the speed they play at.

[TroyF]

fwiw, the last shot where Harden went under JR? Westbrook shot SIX Ft on similar shots tonight. Not 1 or 2, but 6. I don't care they don't give the call to JR in that situation, but he was fouled and you've called the same exact call all night to Westbrook.

Nuggets deserved to lose that game, but the officials are typical NBA horrific.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by TroyF

fwiw, the last shot where Harden went under JR? Westbrook shot SIX Ft on similar shots tonight. Not 1 or 2, but 6. I don't care they don't give the call to JR in that situation, but he was fouled and you've called the same exact call all night to Westbrook.

Nuggets deserved to lose that game, but the officials are typical NBA horrific.

It was bad. This OKC team is getting a lot of superstar calls this series.

[Cuckoo]

Wow, I thought OKC got hosed on several calls, particularly early, and that Denver got away with a lot. I don't know the exact count, but it sure seemed like Denver had a decent edge in free throws; they just didn't make them. And that last shot was not a foul on Harden. I really hope we don't get another game 1 series of complaints from Denver fans because they would be wrong this time, in my opinion.

Whatever... Very good to see the Thunder win this one. It was not one I expected. I'm keeping an eye on that Spurs/Grizzlies series now, and even though you'd think it'd be good for OKC if Memphis won, the Thunder haven't always matched up well with the Grizzlies. Of course, they have Perkins now, so maybe it'd be different.

[Cuckoo]

DOLA

Westbrook is an interesting guy. I, of course, love him. But he's one of those players that if you're a fan of the opposite team, you think he's a punk and hate him furiously. He's definitely confident, even cocky, and he's not afraid to show off when he does some of the ridiculously talented things he does.

[MikeVic]

I haven't been able to watch the Nuggets/Thunder series since they haven't aired here... but FT game-by-game:

Denver: 21/33, 28/37, 30/45
Oklahoma City: 22/28, 24/28, 33/43

Now, this has always been a superstar league and Oklahoma City arguably has two of the bigger superstars right now. However, Denver still has more FTA in EACH of the three games.

Hit your FTs, and maybe you'd deserve to win.

[stevew]

I guess I find it hard to give a fuck about an 88 free throw game, but maybe that's just me. NBA, it's TwentyOne-Tastic

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Noop

Derrick Rose = Allen Iverson?

Not exactly alike because Rose is a better teammate and is at least willing to play point guard. However I can not help but shake that feeling when I watch Rose play.

Wilbon, Cowherd, Skip Bayless, and Dan Patrick have all said the same thing.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Wilbon, Cowherd, Skip Bayless, and Dan Patrick have all said the same thing.

Damn guess that makes me a dick head.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I haven't been able to watch the Nuggets/Thunder series since they haven't aired here... but FT game-by-game:

Denver: 21/33, 28/37, 30/45
Oklahoma City: 22/28, 24/28, 33/43

Now, this has always been a superstar league and Oklahoma City arguably has two of the bigger superstars right now. However, Denver still has more FTA in EACH of the three games.

Hit your FTs, and maybe you'd deserve to win.

It's not only the FT. It's never only about the FT. Which team DESERVED the FT?

The game one Dallas/Portland was notable for the FT spread for Dallas and the fact Portland destroyed them inside.

If you look at the times Westbrook went to the line after his shot had already went out and was pushed under by a Nugget, it was the exact same thing as the Harden play at the end of the game. If you call it for one, you should be calling it for the other.

I stated pretty clearly multiple times the right team won the game and the Nuggets blew their chances. For better or for worse, the Nuggets never recovered after the comical no call in game one.

OKC made a decision (and the correct one) to foul every Nuggets big who had the ball in the last two games. The Nuggets PF/C had 26 FTA last night. Nene had 18 of the attempts the other night. The reason the Nuggets were shooting more FT is because OKC was intentionally fouling. (what's comical is the Nuggets STILL outscored the Thunder in the paint last night, (who was the more aggressive team?).

The calls on Westbrook were the terrible ones IMHO, but I still felt OKC won the game. Then the call happened at the end of the game that was a replica of earlier plays. Just so you OKC fans know, JR is one of the worst clutch FT shooters I've ever seen, Denver still doesn't win the game because I'd bet money he'd have missed at least one. But if you've given Westbrook the calls, you give the call to the Nuggets player. That's all I'm saying.

[duckman]

Troy, hate to break it to you, but no ref is going to blow the whistle on that play. That's refereeing 101.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by duckman

Troy, hate to break it to you, but no ref is going to blow the whistle on that play. That's refereeing 101.

And they shouldn't have blown it for Westbrook then. That's all I'm saying. I understand you don't blow the whistle there, but you don't blow it for him either. That's all.

I hope OKC wins it all. I'm not some hater who despises OKC. I just wish the refs had, ya know, acted consistently.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

It's not only the FT. It's never only about the FT. Which team DESERVED the FT?

The game one Dallas/Portland was notable for the FT spread for Dallas and the fact Portland destroyed them inside.

If you look at the times Westbrook went to the line after his shot had already went out and was pushed under by a Nugget, it was the exact same thing as the Harden play at the end of the game. If you call it for one, you should be calling it for the other.

I stated pretty clearly multiple times the right team won the game and the Nuggets blew their chances. For better or for worse, the Nuggets never recovered after the comical no call in game one.

OKC made a decision (and the correct one) to foul every Nuggets big who had the ball in the last two games. The Nuggets PF/C had 26 FTA last night. Nene had 18 of the attempts the other night. The reason the Nuggets were shooting more FT is because OKC was intentionally fouling. (what's comical is the Nuggets STILL outscored the Thunder in the paint last night, (who was the more aggressive team?).

The calls on Westbrook were the terrible ones IMHO, but I still felt OKC won the game. Then the call happened at the end of the game that was a replica of earlier plays. Just so you OKC fans know, JR is one of the worst clutch FT shooters I've ever seen, Denver still doesn't win the game because I'd bet money he'd have missed at least one. But if you've given Westbrook the calls, you give the call to the Nuggets player. That's all I'm saying.

Troy,

You have insightful, interesting analysis of games. But god the whining is terrible. It completely undercuts all the great points you make on a regular basis.

[whomario]

please don´t take this personally @ TroyF, Stevew and others.

First thing : I do agree that there should be acountability and we propably need a different system for how referees are assigned but then again it´s not like there´s thousands of yound kids aspiring to be referees, are there ? That´s a problem with the american sports system, there is no "going through the ranks" like with european sports with the lower leagues system. There is also the simple fact that they are employed by the league and not the US basketball federation (or whatever it´s called) like it is in Europe. Either you are an NBA (or d-league) ref or you are no Ref at all, or am i missing some connection with the NCAA ?

I personally have been enjoying this playoffs a great deal so far and with all that is at times wrong with refereeing there is just as much wrong with how people use it as an excuse nowadays for everything. It´s come to a point where everything gets twisted around so many times that it´s just insane. One game it´s the favourite getting favoured because of their reputation, the next it´s the underdog because it needs to be interesting, then you can bet some group of people will find a motive for just about any team getting favoured if they seemingly do.

One should examine mistakes, but you can´t go and go "the win was propably deserved but the refs also were crap" every single time there was a handfull of mistakes because that will allways be the case with a game as weirdly constructed as basketball. The crazy thing is that if the game result gets reversed, in 95% of cases the other group of fans reacts the same way.

And i´m sorry, but if a blown call in game 1 makes you loose a series than you also get to whine about missing the bus because of someone holding you up for 30 seconds at the beginning of an half hour walk to the station instead of blaming yourself for browsing at the magazione stand for 5 minutes.

With the super stars it´s also simply a case of them doing those things way more often than role players, of course referees react to players differently if they see the same move a million times and propably see it in replay after games as well.
They see that a Westbrook gets fouled 8 out of 10 times on a certain move, so of course they are more likely to see just that happening in the game where they have a split second to decide. That´s just the nature of it, anyone who has ever refereed any sport will tell you that even on the amateur level (where you know jack about the players) you´ll adjust even during the game.
The first time a big, strong guy falls down while battling his man you might let it go, but after the 2nd or 3rd time you´ll look closer and propably see his oponent trip him or grab him from behind because the situation occurs multiple times and you pay extra attention to it.

In an ideal world the refs react to every play and every player seperately, but unless you put them in a room with a TV that somehow morphs out player faces, jersey numbers and overall resemblance it ain´t going to happen.

If after a game like yesterday´s Mavs-Blazers game i have to wake up and read a million "Sure the Mavs weren´t great but the refs still blew it" then i can only stop just short of punching sth.

The Refs made mistakes and i personally think a situation like that loose ball out of bounds late should result in a jump ball. But if you look at the game you´ll see blown calls in favour of the Mavs as well.

Who the hell are you kidding claiming the Refs had anything to do with Chandler being to effing stupid to keep his hands away time after time, Kidd being too slow (and ending up in the wrong place to often), Carlisle being to stubborn to adjust his rotation (Chandler has 5 fouls and Kidd is in foul trouble while Roy attacks both, yet Carlisle refuses to make a change) and the Mavs just plain and simply quitting to execute and running the clock down with 8 minutes to go ? There were half a dozen situations where Kidd was the first crossing halfcourt with no one even bothering to run the floor.

They were outscored like 40-15 to end the game, jesus ... There is no but involved here, none. Had the Refs actively tripped up Mavs players and conciously called every situation in the Blazers favour, even then you shouldn´t be able to fucking loose a 20+ point lead over a 12 minute period against a team that ran the same god damn play for the entirety of that run lead by a guy who on a wonderfull night still was the slowest guy on the court.

[whomario]

Ibaka was brilliant yesterday btw, not just the statline but the fact that he was a factor on nearly every possession on both ends, played with tons of energy and contested everything, played brilliant defensively not just in the middle but also closing out.
That´s maybe even the biggest thing about the Perkins trade, giving Ibaka freedom to roam defensively with 2 defensive minded Centers logging all the minutes at the 5 (Mohammed really is solid as well)


Knicks about to be swept, they can´t buy a basket.

Glad the 76ers won a game. Also, for as much as one might hope the Heat fail, i can´t help but be impressed by Joel Anthony. One of those guys that make a living being amazing at everything that doesn´t involve doing anything with the ball. The guy can´t score at all and isn´t even a good rebounder but sure plays great and versatile defense and sets screens like his live depends on it.
There were a couple great articles on him recently, here´s one from before the playoffs started: Joel Anthony: the spectacle who works - Heat Index Blog - ESPN (i realize it´s the heat section on espn, still sth i can get behind )

[JonInMiddleGA]

So, what happens in Orlando if they manage to lose this series?

[jbergey22]

Amare is getting extremely close to being known as a playoff "choker." You had a great regular season Amare what the hell happened in this Boston series?

Maybe he has really poor luck but sitting out because of back spasms and following it up with poor performance doesnt really clear up any rep he had in Phoenix.

[stevew]

Amare was hurt and the Knicks have 3 good players, no size, and Billips was hurt, too. Plus D'Antoni isn't a good coach.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by stevew

Amare was hurt and the Knicks have 3 good players, no size, and Billips was hurt, too. Plus D'Antoni isn't a good coach.

The fact that they lost to Boston doesnt bother me its the other stuff with Amare that has been said in this very thread and how true it was in the Boston series.

[Radii]

I have a massive mancrush on whomario after that rant. Beautiful.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Noop

Damn guess that makes me a dick head.

Nah, I heard Cowherd doing his "Rose = Iverson" routine. You said two sentences before nicely qualifying "well not exactly but here's my point". cowherd rants not stop for 20 fucking minutes and never qualifying it in any way. He just goes on and on and on about how they are the exact same player who will never ever win anything.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So, what happens in Orlando if they manage to lose this series?

Dwight Howard gets traded to the Lakers for Bynum and some picks?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by stevew

Dwight Howard gets traded to the Lakers for Bynum and some picks?

I actually believe the Celtics unloading Perkins is a sign they must be serious considering figuring out a way to get Howard via FA when he is done in Orlando.No other real reason why they would of so quickly jettisoned perkins and leave themselves with no center after this year.

[stevew]

There's no way the Celtics can get him with their current roster construction, big three/four consume more than the cap amongst themselves.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by stevew

There's no way the Celtics can get him with their current roster construction, big three/four consume more than the cap amongst themselves.

Depends when Howard's deal is done and when Garnett/Allen are done and what they would resign for if they didn't retire...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So, what happens in Orlando if they manage to lose this series?

Tough to say. I don't think they'll push to trade him. Nor do I see much reason for Howard to want to be traded. He can play out his contract and have the pick of the litter for where he wants to play. This isn't like the Melo situation where getting a contract in under the current CBA was a concern.

So what motivation does a team have for gutting their team for him when they can just sign him in the offseason the following year? You also have to assume that Orlando is going to demand that Arenas or Hedo gets thrown in the deal as well. Not all that attractive. But lets look at teams that could potentially deal for him:

Lakers - Bynum is a nice piece although it's tough to tell what his value is with his injury problems. I'd have to imagine Orlando would want more and I can't find a scenario where they can throw Hedo and/or Arenas into the deal without the Lakers having to give up Odom in the process.

Bulls - They have some nice young pieces they can package with Noah in a deal (Taj, Asik). As well as 4 first round picks over the next 2 years that can be included. But I see no way to match up salaries for a deal and no way that Orlando can tack on Hedo or Arenas as a tax.

Nets - They would love him and could give up Lopez, but that's likely not enticing enough to lure the Magic unless they can get them to take on Arenas as well.

Miami - Orlando would never trade him to a rival, but getting Bosh could be the most value available for the Magic.

Denver - They have a lot of pieces to make it work and could still put a nice team around him. Not sure how willing their owner would be to take on Arenas or Hedo though.

Basically it comes down to the fact that not many teams can offer anything close to his value. And the ones that can are in small markets that he may not be interested in. I think the only way Orlando does it is if they can clear Arenas and/or Hedo from their books while bringing in a young talent and plenty of picks.

I still think Orlando waits it out and hopes he signs an extension. They've invested too much into him and threw all their chips in with the trades they made this season. I hope he stays in Orlando.

[RainMaker]

I don't know why comparing Rose to AI would be an insult. Iverson was an incredible talent who unfortunately had issues on and off the court with his attitude and demeanor. He had some incredible seasons and took a team with no one to the Finals.

Iverson was more athletic and I believe a better pure scorer than Rose (although that could change). Rose has more height and is a better passer. I don't think they are that similar but I don't think it's a negative to be compared to him in any way.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't know why comparing Rose to AI would be an insult. Iverson was an incredible talent who unfortunately had issues on and off the court with his attitude and demeanor. He had some incredible seasons and took a team with no one to the Finals.

Iverson was more athletic and I believe a better pure scorer than Rose (although that could change). Rose has more height and is a better passer. I don't think they are that similar but I don't think it's a negative to be compared to him in any way.

Iverson may have been a scorer but for the most part he wasnt an effective scorer. Rose is a lot more efficient.

Iversons True Field Goal Percentage(which includes FTs) was less than .520, Rose's career average is .535 with it being at .550 this year his breakout year. IMO Rose is a lot better player right now that Iverson ever was.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Iverson may have been a scorer but for the most part he wasnt an effective scorer. Rose is a lot more efficient.

Iverson was definitely an effective scorer and his efficiency wasn't as bad as his FG% suggests. He was always among the league leaders in free throw attempts and makes per game.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Depends when Howard's deal is done and when Garnett/Allen are done and what they would resign for if they didn't retire...

I guess you could max out Howard to play with Rondo, Peirce and 12 Joel Anthony's.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Iverson was definitely an effective scorer and his efficiency wasn't as bad as his FG% suggests. He was always among the league leaders in free throw attempts and makes per game.

He also shot in the very low 40 percent range most years. He was a good player because his penetration would lead to rebound dunks and he would draw fouls but many of times he would shoot his team right out of the game.

IMO he is one of the most overrated players in NBA history. When he wasnt scoring he just wasnt much benefit to have on the team. We sort of seen this in his later years.

[MikeVic]

I don't know, I think he's adequately rated. What he managed to do with those crappy Sixers teams was pretty cool.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I don't know, I think he's adequately rated. What he managed to do with those crappy Sixers teams was pretty cool.

I agree it was cool what he did with that team.

They were a great defensive team that really didnt have anyone else to make shots so he fit in perfectly.

Put him on the 93 Bulls or 09 Lakers and Phil Jackson would have him on the bench for shooting ineffectively and killing the offensive flow. I dont know that there was a good system for him other than 1 on 1 freestyle basketball.