Werewolf XIX: Return to the Forest - Night(4)

[Barkeep49]

Grammaticus is the witness. That should be clear by now. I thought he was the seer pretending to be the witness. I was wrong. But we should be able to agree, without a doubt, that his netting of a wolf on Day 2 makes him the witness. Voting against a known villager? That's a voting offense.

Vote Raiders Army

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Grammaticus is the witness. That should be clear by now. I thought he was the seer pretending to be the witness. I was wrong. But we should be able to agree, without a doubt, that his netting of a wolf on Day 2 makes him the witness. Voting against a known villager? That's a voting offense.

Vote Raiders Army

He only claims to be the witness. There may or may not be one in this game.

Primary Roles

Werewolf - You belong to a pack of werewolves.
Villager - You are a villager, and your sole purpose is to survive.
Seer - You are the seer, and can view the true identity of a man or wolf. Each night you may choose to view the true identity (pertaining only to wolf/villager) of one player.
Herbalist - You possess a bag of wolfsbane, the deadliest herb known to all wolfkind. Each night, you may choose to protect someone by slipping wolfsbane upon him. You may not choose the same person two nights in a row. You may, however, choose yourself.
Secret Role(s) - There are secret role(s) in this game.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I am again going to start the day with my vote as

VOTE RAIDERS ARMY

I’ve laid it out in prior posts. I also feel Dubbs post for RA on day two says something. Dub used the word “role” out of context to id RA and in parenthesis. I think he was telling us that he (Dubb) had a role and was identifying RA as a wolf. Hindsight is 20/20, but all the same, it is one of the reasons why I felt good about Dubb before he was lynched.

Reposting to reflect the error in naming Dubb where I intended to name Dacman.

I am again going to start the day with my vote as

VOTE RAIDERS ARMY

I’ve laid it out in prior posts. I also feel Dacmans post for RA on day two says something. Dacman used the word “role” out of context to id RA and in parenthesis. I think he was telling us that he (Dacman) had a role and was identifying RA as a wolf. Hindsight is 20/20, but all the same, it is one of the reasons why I felt good about Dacman before he was lynched.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

He only claims to be the witness. There may or may not be one in this game.

Well the two of us already know there are roles not in the rules so that isn't a totally convincing argument for me. What is the scenario you are suggesting instead?

[Poli]

I don't think he can.

[McSweeny]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

He only claims to be the witness. There may or may not be one in this game.

yeah so he just happened to nail a wolf? nice try RA

VOTE RAIDERS ARMY

[Raiders Army]

Gotta roll to a meeting. Be right back in about an hour.

[Blade6119]

VOTE BARKEEP

[Grammaticus]

Well, now that dacman has been outed as the seer, it is fairly clear that I am not a seer. I guess there could be 2 seers, but not likely enough to try and work that angle. I didn’t say anything before, because I though it was clever of ardent to suggest seer, maybe making the wolves go for me thinking they were getting the seer. Bottom line is, I Witnessed the killing and reported it. Yeah RA, I don’t think I need to spend a lot of time trying to defend now.

A wolf is not going to sacrifice another wolf just for deception, that is silly. There may be 3 wolves, you can’t afford to let one go for any reason. Would you sacrifice one third of the villagers to trick the wolves? Sacrificing so much for something that does not ensure a win does not make sense. It just doesn’t pay off in the long run.

The following is not a defense of me, but a shedding of light upon RA. RA, you are wolfish in your attempt to get villagers to vote for me. It could be because you are angry that I am pushing you as a wolf. But, then it is not in the best interest of the villagers to lynch me, so acting in anger does not help. It could also mean that you want to try and get the villagers to waste a lynch on me to help the wolves reduce their ratio and ensure a wolf does not get lynched in my place. Probably the second option, either way not good for villagers. I think you have to go, just because you are the most likely wolf.

[Poli]

Off to work, guys. I'll see you about this time tomorrow, I'd guess.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Well the two of us already know there are roles not in the rules so that isn't a totally convincing argument for me. What is the scenario you are suggesting instead?

Hmmm...at this point, I'm not suggesting a scenario. I'm not positively sure Grammaticus is a wolf.

The ones I think may be wolves are you (Barkeep) and Blade. Even then, I'm not so sure.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

The following is not a defense of me, but a shedding of light upon RA. RA, you are wolfish in your attempt to get villagers to vote for me. It could be because you are angry that I am pushing you as a wolf. But, then it is not in the best interest of the villagers to lynch me, so acting in anger does not help. It could also mean that you want to try and get the villagers to waste a lynch on me to help the wolves reduce their ratio and ensure a wolf does not get lynched in my place. Probably the second option, either way not good for villagers. I think you have to go, just because you are the most likely wolf.

So this is the only wolfish thing I've done? LOL.

Anyhow, as I posted above, I am not sure you are a wolf. I agree I have to go because I am most likely a wolf, although I can assure you that I'm not. I'm sure the wolves thought I would point to the Pennywisesb defense of how it looks like I'm "framed" by voting for him yesterday. I just can't think of a reason to kill Pennywisesb unless they thought he was the bodyguard.

I'm trying to leave my thoughts out there for now so after I'm dead I can continue on. On the other hand, I think I've mucked up this game enough I deserve to die.

[dubb93]

I guess it is time to come clean. I was given the special role of empath. It gives me the ability to check 2 sentences from the game and determine if the person that said them were telling the truth or not.

Last night I decided to use up both of my chances and checked the following 2 sentences.

Also, simple villager checking in.

That was a quote from RA in post #67. RPI said he was telling the truth.

The other sentence I checked was...

Villager checking in.

That is a quote from TazTFW in post #66. RPI said he was lieing.

I made this move b/c my role is completely used up, and it allows us to get a wolf. RA is not the right vote tonight, Taz is. He's played under the radar the whole game, he's a wolf, I have the proof.

VOTE TazFTW

[Raiders Army]

In that case,

UNVOTE GRAMMATICUS
VOTE TAZFTW

[Raiders Army]

Also, to be clear here are the numbers:

10 of us left. We can assume there are at probably two wolves left, maybe three.

Worst case scenario is three wolves left. If we make the wrong move today, it's 6-3 villagers. After the night phase, it's 5-3 villagers. This is obviously not an endgame gambit.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I guess it is time to come clean. I was given the special role of empath. It gives me the ability to check 2 sentences from the game and determine if the person that said them were telling the truth or not.

Last night I decided to use up both of my chances and checked the following 2 sentences.



That was a quote from RA in post #67. RPI said he was telling the truth.

The other sentence I checked was...



That is a quote from TazTFW in post #66. RPI said he was lieing.

I made this move b/c my role is completely used up, and it allows us to get a wolf. RA is not the right vote tonight, Taz is. He's played under the radar the whole game, he's a wolf, I have the proof.

VOTE TazFTW

Hmm, the game takes a bizarre turn, talk about shifting gears.

Edit - That is a cool special ability

[Raiders Army]

Please don't edit your posts.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Please don't edit your posts.

I personally wouldn't, but RPI said earlier that he didn't mind as long as it wasn't a voting post.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by dubb93

The other sentence I checked was...



That is a quote from TazTFW in post #66. RPI said he was lieing.

I made this move b/c my role is completely used up, and it allows us to get a wolf. RA is not the right vote tonight, Taz is. He's played under the radar the whole game, he's a wolf, I have the proof.

VOTE TazFTW

Load of BS! I am a villager and dubb has just outed himself as a badguy.

VOTE DUBB93

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Load of BS! I am a villager and dubb has just outed himself as a badguy.

VOTE DUBB93

Nice try wolf . Next time try not and play the quiet game. If you were active and not on the block like RA, there is no way I would have suspected you, but I hate the quiet ones. That made you suspect enough to take a shot on.

[McSweeny]

seems like a no-brainer to me. If Taz turns out to be innocent, we'll be able to nail two wolves in RA and Dubb. If Taz is a wolf we've cleared two more villagers. Excellent

UNVOTE RAIDERS ARMY

VOTE TAZFTW

[Schmidty]

Well, this it. If Dubb is right, we can find the other wolf by going back through posts. If he isn't a wolf, Dubb was lying and that means RA and him are going down.

[TazFTW]

Interestingly enough that if I were a werewolf and I see from the other games that people seem to trust the talkitive ones, wouldn't a werewolf try to 'fit' in by being one of the talkitive ones?

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Interestingly enough that if I were a werewolf and I see from the other games that people seem to trust the talkitive ones, wouldn't a werewolf try to 'fit' in by being one of the talkitive ones?

That could be a point to argue, but Dubb’s ability uncovers your post stating you are a villager to be a lie. The quite part just indicates why he chose to review your post versus someone else’s.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Interestingly enough that if I were a werewolf and I see from the other games that people seem to trust the talkitive ones, wouldn't a werewolf try to 'fit' in by being one of the talkitive ones?

I suppose it is possible, but like I said I'm the empath. If I was lieing at this point it would be stupid. I'd be giving the villagers 2 wolves. That wouldn't make any sense. RA is a villager, I'm the empath, and you are a wolf. It's really that simple.

[Schmidty]

Now that I think of it, if Dubb and RA really are wolves, why would they sacrifice themselves by obviously lying and killing a villager? The only thing I can think of is that they know that if one more villager is killed they will win somehow by tommorow. Basically, this vote could be do-or-die for the us villagers. I'm hesitant to vote either way.

[WVUFAN]

I suppose it is possible, but like I said I'm the empath. If I was lieing at this point it would be stupid. I'd be giving the villagers 2 wolves. That wouldn't make any sense. RA is a villager, I'm the empath, and you are a wolf. It's really that simple

Good Point. VOTE TAZZFTW

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Now that I think of it, if Dubb and RA really are wolves, why would they sacrifice themselves by obviously lying and killing a villager? The only thing I can think of is that they know that if one more villager is killed they will win somehow by tommorow. Basically, this vote could be do-or-die for the us villagers. I'm hesitant to vote either way.

Well there are 10 left. Lynch me and its down to 9. Maybe the wolves have a 2 kill wolf on their side or have friends that will give the wolves the win in a tie.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Now that I think of it, if Dubb and RA really are wolves, why would they sacrifice themselves by obviously lying and killing a villager? The only thing I can think of is that they know that if one more villager is killed they will win somehow by tommorow. Basically, this vote could be do-or-die for the us villagers. I'm hesitant to vote either way.

How could the wolves still win in that scenario?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

How could the wolves still win in that scenario?

I don't know. I just don't trust Dubb or RA, or ANYONE for that matter. I guess it makes more sense that Dubb is telling the truth, since there seems to be no way the wolves could benefit from him lying. I hope I'm right.

Vote TAZFTW

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Now that I think of it, if Dubb and RA really are wolves, why would they sacrifice themselves by obviously lying and killing a villager? The only thing I can think of is that they know that if one more villager is killed they will win somehow by tommorow. Basically, this vote could be do-or-die for the us villagers. I'm hesitant to vote either way.

10 people left. IF I was lieing, which I'm not, then that would mean that even after Saldana's death, and no no kills at night(a no kill could either be a bodyguard type protecting or a possible conversion) THAT THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE 4 WOLVES LEFT. That is beyond highly unlikely that of 16 people starting there would be 5 wolves.

I'm telling the truth, this isn't anything stupid. I'm simply the empath, I checked RA and Taz and found Taz to be a wolf. If I'm lieing I would be giving the villagers 2 wolves. It would be stupid. Taz is a wolf and RA is a villager. Do the right thing guys.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I'm not voting for Barkeep or RA since they both have been wolves in the last game they played, thus in my mind making it less likely they are a wolf this game.

That is from post 90. The reason I mention it is because RA played last game and he was not a wolf. Last game was the assassin/noble game and me, Mr. W, and McSweeny were the assassins. If you want to believe this statement then I being an assassin in the last game would not be a werewolf this game. Or you can see it for what it is and it is dubb protecting another werewolf.

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I'm not sure we're doing the right thing right now with Dubb. Like the last game, someone who's vocal on Day 1 is probably not a wolf. I have a few thoughts but will wait an hour or so to post them (just a theory I have) and also post my vote.

Post 161. Proves my theory of fitting in.

Originally Posted by dubb93

Dacman is next if they don't get over this stupid shit. I've done nothing but try and help and they seem willing to tie a noose around my neck at every corner.

Post 172. It should be noted that dacman, the seer voted for dubb93 twice.

[TazFTW]

dola

The board flaking out on me is really making it difficult to defend myself.

[dubb93]

I have some last minute shopping I have to do. I'm heading to indy here in just a few minutes. I'll try to be back b/f the deadline, but can't make any promises. It's an hour drive, probably shop for less than an hour, but I've heard traffic is horrible up there.

There really isn't anything more I can say, I used my power and saw Taz to be wolf. If anyone has any other questions post them and if I get back in time I'll be happy to answer them. Please, just make the right decision. We don't need to lynch another innocent tonight.

[Blade6119]

god it is hard to not get involved in this

[Raiders Army]

To me, the math is simple. There is no way the wolves win today. Why make the play?

If you go with dubb and are right, we nab a wolf.
If you don't go with dubb, you know that both he and I are wolves.

How is this not hard?

[TazFTW]

dacman was the seer. He voted for dubb93 twice and then Raiders Army. I'm switching my vote from one wolf to the wolf with the most votes.

UNVOTE DUBB93
VOTE RAIDERS ARMY

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

dacman was the seer. He voted for dubb93 twice and then Raiders Army. I'm switching my vote from one wolf to the wolf with the most votes.

UNVOTE DUBB93
VOTE RAIDERS ARMY

Obviously in self-defense. Why don't you say that, wolf?

[Barkeep49]

Blade I'd like to hear what you have to say. Please remember we're not in a huge time crunch as we have until tomorrow morning as a deadline.

Oh and while I try and construct what all the angles of this latest revelation are

Unvote Raiders Army

[Barkeep49]

1) st.cronin: Lynched, Day(1), Regular Villager
2) Raiders Army
3) dacman: Lynched, Day(3), Seer
4) pennywisesb: Killed, Night(3)
5) Schmidty
6) Blade6119
7) McSweeny
8) ardent enthusiast
9) SnDvls: Killed, Night(2)
10) Grammaticus
11) TazTFW
12) saldana: Lynched, Day(2), Werewolf
13) Barkeep49
14) kingfc22: Killed, Night(1)
15) WVUFAN
16) dubb93

There are 10 players left. There are likely 2 or 3 wolves.

In the worse case scenario there are 7 villagers and 3 wolves.

If Dubb is lying:
Today we kill Taz. 6 villagers 3 wolves. Wolves kill tonight. 5 villagers 3 wolves. We kill Dubb tomorrow as a wolf. 5 to 2 villagers. Even after a wolf kill that still leaves the villagers up 4 to 2. The wolves would have to be confident that they would not be killed two days from now, when there would be a 1/3 chance of it happening, for this play to make sense. That's a pretty bold move for the wolves here then. It only makes sense if RA is NOT a wolf as based on the circumstances he has benefitted the most from this revelation and thus would seem likely to be once again on the block two days from now and so perhaps the wolves were thinking that we kill RA and then they end the game that night. Counting on the mood of what villagers will be like two days from now seems pretty risky if they have 3 wolves. And if they only have two wolves the numbers just don't make sense.

Therefore I'm inclined to believe Dubb.

Vote TazTFW

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

god it is hard to not get involved in this

Why are you trying to not get involved? We are pretty much going to lynch Taz. If you think that is bad, lets hear it.

I am inclined to believe Dubb and go with the Taz lynch. If Taz is not a wolf, then the path is clearer. If Taz is a wolf, that would be one wolf down and RA in the clear.

[Raiders Army]

Isn't that what I said in post 515, just a little bit less eloquently?

I'm out for a while...probably the night. Good luck to the villagers and let's cut them down to one or two wolves tonight.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Why are you trying to not get involved? We are pretty much going to lynch Taz. If you think that is bad, lets hear it.

I am inclined to believe Dubb and go with the Taz lynch. If Taz is not a wolf, then the path is clearer. If Taz is a wolf, that would be one wolf down and RA in the clear.

Remember my post a page ago. I think Blade might have been backing my losing play because he knows I'm a villager and it would clear him.

Just a possibility, but maybe not a probability.

I'm out for now.

[TazFTW]

Why would you believe someone who "outs their role" when you know someone was a seer and was voting as such?


Seriously? DACMAN WAS A SEER and HE VOTED FOR DUBB93 and RAIDERS ARMY. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED?

[preedit]Of course I just noticed that in the first dubb93 post I quoted, he is protecting BOTH barkeep and Raiders Army.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Isn't that what I said in post 515, just a little bit less eloquently?

Yes but I needed to think about it myself and figured it couldn't hurt to post my thoughts as if there is a flaw in my thinking I'd want someone to point it out. I had originally planned to do what if Dubb was telling the truth but the evidence from him lying was so strong I didn't even go there.

[Grammaticus]

UNVOTE RAIDERS ARMY

VOTE TAZFTW

I'm going with the most likely outcome on the table. I think Dubb is probably on the up and up. Some of his past votes and comments are problematic, but if he used his ability last night, then let's roll and see where it goes.


Oh, Barkeep, you did not spell Taz's name right, so you may want to repost your vote.

[TazFTW]

:sigh: I give up. If people choose not to believe the seer then so be it. The game is over.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Oh, Barkeep, you did not spell Taz's name right, so you may want to repost your vote.

Thanks. I always do that . RA said he doesn't really care but just to make sure

Vote TazFTW

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

:sigh: I give up. If people choose not to believe the seer then so be it. The game is over.

There is no telling if the seer viewed RA or Dubb. He only used his ability twice. He could have looked at Ardent and Pennywise, etc.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

There is no telling if the seer viewed RA or Dubb. He only used his ability twice. He could have looked at Ardent and Pennywise, etc.

Whatever...