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Old 12-15-2009, 05:34 PM   #201
dubb93
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Hell, even my melee mage run cleared heroic uk without a wipe in a pug.
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Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?
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Old 12-15-2009, 05:39 PM   #202
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Hell, even pug 10 mans I would say have a pretty high success rate. You just have to keep in mind when raiding that even the top raid guilds in the world wipe.

The most common problem with pug raids is the first wipe you lose half the raid and have to fill it up again. The second wipe, you lose half of it again, rinse and repeat. You don't have the people leaving in guild runs but you still have the wipes. The shorter 10 mans can be pugged with no issue, it is the longer ones like naxx and ulduar that are a pain in the ass b/c they are so damn long and wiping is a part of clearing them, however in pugs a wipe=half the raid is now gone.
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Old 12-15-2009, 05:39 PM   #203
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Quote:
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I honestly can't believe you can play the game and not pug. I would say that my successful pug rate would be around 90%+. That ofcourse goes down once you get into raids and I would say that pug raids are probably below 50%, but hell that is what is a guild is for. I couldn't imagine never having a pug 5 man considering 5 mans are so easy that I have 3 manned alot of them, including heroics. My priest could literally keep a tank up in heroics for like 20 minutes before he would need mana. Hell I normally go an entire heroic run without a mana break. I can't imagine the fail you have seen to completely scare you off of pug 5 mans.

I just have a limited amount of time to play and would rather not deal with wankers, plus I enjoy playing solo.
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Old 12-15-2009, 05:41 PM   #204
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I don't mind wiping, I hate douchebags who don't make the game fun. Between the immature idiots and the people who take themselves to seriously it is easy to get turned off fast.
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:09 PM   #205
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I...would rather not deal with wankers

But the wankers are the best part. Some of my most fond memories are in pugs with someone who just simply doesn't get it. The key is to not take it too seriously and just deal with it and laugh at it. Some of the stuff is absolute gold.

Like I had a warrior one time who was tanking type /yell HELP!!! every time he pulled. In his mind he had every enemy on him and thought the rest of us weren't doing anything. He just didn't get it even after explaining the concepts to him, in his mind we were all slacking off since they were all on him. I was healing this idiot and keeping him alive, but he still didn't get it. At times he would take off running like he thought if he ran far enough they would stop chasing him. Note: It doesn't work that way in instances.

I was laughing my ass off as I'm sure everyone else was. That was one of my most fond memories of playing WoW was the help yelling warrior who just didn't get it. Amazingly we never wiped and finished the run.
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Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?

Last edited by dubb93 : 12-15-2009 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:12 PM   #206
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I am OK with that sort of stuff. I just hate the people who try and tell you what to do, or god forbid you make a mistake and get someone killed, or god forbid your gear isn't good enough, etc...

Then there are the people who need on everything, etc...
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:46 PM   #207
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The thing is that most Pug wipes aren't the same wipes that a guild run gets - they're wipes because someone doesn't know what they are doing. Also, if you're lucky enough NOT to lose half your raid after the wipe, the 15 minute downtime while everyone figures out how to get back to where the boss is quickly loses you those that barely stayed anyways.

Sure, organized guilds wipe - on progression content. The reason I finally formed my own guild was because I was tired of wiping on bosses that should have been farm content, I was tired of wipe recovery taking ten minutes, and I was tired of having to explain every single nuance of a complex boss fight every time we pulled the boss. What was nice was that I had been playing on the same server long enough that I was able to surround myself with people who were able to take things seriously enough that I didn't have to be a dick about discipline, yet relaxed enough that our raids weren't boring as hell.

Turned out that running a guild was as much about juggling egos as it was about boss strategy and raid organization, if not moreso.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:25 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II View Post
The thing is that most Pug wipes aren't the same wipes that a guild run gets - they're wipes because someone doesn't know what they are doing.

Well god forbid it is someones first time doing something.

I dunno, I think what I get out of WoW is different then most people.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:35 PM   #209
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A lot of this discussion brings up points that makes me shy away from higher level content. If I don't happen to be in an understanding PUG and I fuck up, I'm going to hear about it. I've run almost 0 instances so I'm not confident in my role or in the fights as they progress. I don't PUG as much as I'd like...when I actually start PUGing that is.
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Old 12-16-2009, 11:02 AM   #210
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Well god forbid it is someones first time doing something.

There are issues with this though. You need to keep in mind that it takes 4 hours to complete some raids without any wipes. Add 15 minutes for each wipe, and if there is someone who doesn't know any of the fights in say naxx with 15 bosses and atleast one learning wipe per boss you have increased the naxx clear time to nearly 8 hours.

I for one simply don't have that kind of time and I think that anyone who expects 24 people to put up with their shit for 8 hours sound be willing to go to a website like tankspot.com and watch the damn boss videos so they know what the hell is going on before they get to the boss fights.
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Old 12-16-2009, 11:03 AM   #211
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Infact in most serious guilds you are expected to know the boss fights you haven't even seen yet inside and out before you see it for the first time. I don't see why that expectation should just disappear when you opt to join a pug.

EDIT--Yes I do get annoyed when I start a pug and someone doesn't know the fights. I don't give a crap if you've done it before or not, if you are going to invest 4 hours(or 8 hours atleast if you come unprepared) into a raid you could atleast invest 2 hours watching videos and reading boss strat. If you aren't willing to watch the videos and read the strat then you have no business being in that raid since most raid bosses have 1 mechanic that if it isn't done will kill you and most likely at the very least someone else in the raid.
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Last edited by dubb93 : 12-16-2009 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 11:35 AM   #212
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There are issues with this though. You need to keep in mind that it takes 4 hours to complete some raids without any wipes. Add 15 minutes for each wipe, and if there is someone who doesn't know any of the fights in say naxx with 15 bosses and atleast one learning wipe per boss you have increased the naxx clear time to nearly 8 hours.

I for one simply don't have that kind of time and I think that anyone who expects 24 people to put up with their shit for 8 hours sound be willing to go to a website like tankspot.com and watch the damn boss videos so they know what the hell is going on before they get to the boss fights.

I will just never understand this. I get your concerns about the time commitment, but I just don't see the fun in a game if you know everything you are supposed to do, and frankly, I find it really odd that someone would not only spend all that time watching online how to do something, but that they would be expected to.

It is a game, that is just way to obsessive for me. I sign on, I play, I sign off.
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:24 PM   #213
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Infact in most serious guilds you are expected to know the boss fights you haven't even seen yet inside and out before you see it for the first time. I don't see why that expectation should just disappear when you opt to join a pug.

EDIT--Yes I do get annoyed when I start a pug and someone doesn't know the fights. I don't give a crap if you've done it before or not, if you are going to invest 4 hours(or 8 hours atleast if you come unprepared) into a raid you could atleast invest 2 hours watching videos and reading boss strat. If you aren't willing to watch the videos and read the strat then you have no business being in that raid since most raid bosses have 1 mechanic that if it isn't done will kill you and most likely at the very least someone else in the raid.

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I will just never understand this. I get your concerns about the time commitment, but I just don't see the fun in a game if you know everything you are supposed to do, and frankly, I find it really odd that someone would not only spend all that time watching online how to do something, but that they would be expected to.

It is a game, that is just way to obsessive for me. I sign on, I play, I sign off.

you guys realize that you are talking about 2 entirely different concepts...Dubb, you are talking about 10/25/40 mans...the people running that content are already capped and should know how to play their toons, run their rotations, and unless they are with a guild run that has been set up for the purpose of helping you learn the fights and get you gear, there is a reasonable expectation that they did some homework before coming in. (i thought a couple guys in my last naxx 10 were going to have strokes because one guy didnt know to switch sides when the polarity shift happened on the construct quarter boss....i had never been there before either, but HAD looked up how to do the fights so i didnt get killed in 5 seconds)

lathum is talking about running 5 mans..his highest toon is still in the 60s and hasnt even gotten all of the skills/spells that he will eventually have, and he hasnt seen alot of the content that requires more than tank n' spank strategy....there is still a learning curve, but alot of people dont remember that they were new once, and expect everyone to instinctively know that on the last boss in nexus, you have to keep jumping up and down....if youve never been there, you dont know that...lathums point is that instead of someone saying, before the fight starts, "Does everyone know this fight", or "remember to keep jumping so the frost doesnt stack on you", there are a shitton more people that will /p WHAT ARE YOU DOING IDIOT!!!!1!11!!

there is alot of leetism in WoW...alot of people assume that if you are on a toon that isnt an 80, it has to be an alt, because they have 3 or 4 80s and they ARE on an alt...causal players like lathum and a couple other friends of ours who are 77's and have never done a WotLK instance would take a raft of shit in pugs, but that doesnt mean they arent good players...just that they play the game differently, and for differernt reasons...IMO, that doenst mean they should have to be subjected to nerdrage from some 14yo kid because they are trying to see more of the game. (edit to add: not meant to infer that dubb is a 14yo with nerdrage...just used that example because Lathum and I actually had some kid who begged us to take him on our run start yelling at a friend of ours in RFK who was a level 23 warrior on his first toon for being in the wrong stance to DPS)

Last edited by saldana : 12-16-2009 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:10 PM   #214
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well put Rich
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:01 AM   #215
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so are we on for tonight?

i didnt have a chance to play Saltana at all this week, so i'm still at 17?

thoughts on time and activity?
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:11 AM   #216
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I might be able to...I haven't played Myrdore much but have been a bit today and last night...
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:00 PM   #217
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It has been a busy week for me too. I've had Christmas business all week. I don't think I will be there tonight. My wife and I are having a gift wrapping party and wrapping all of the kids' presents.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:10 PM   #218
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It has been a busy week for me too. I've had Christmas business all week. I don't think I will be there tonight. My wife and I are having a gift wrapping party and wrapping all of the kids' presents.

lathum and i were discussing that it might not be a bad idea to postpone any organized runs until after the holidays are over...thoughts?
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:14 PM   #219
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That sounds like a good idea to me, especially postponing anything this week.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:52 AM   #220
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For those of you hitting 30 or so, you may want to check out this guide.

He has a step by step approach for efficient leveling. I started following it around level 34 so I was ahead of the curve, but the levels start coming pretty fast using it. They also have a add-on version that works in game.
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:04 AM   #221
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Well god forbid it is someones first time doing something.

I dunno, I think what I get out of WoW is different then most people.

Rich and Dubb beat me to it, but I'll expand a little bit. I have absolutely no problem with someone who is in a new place that doesn't know what's going on. I do have a problem with someone who can't follow a simple direction such as "don't stand in the fire," or "don't start attacking until after the tank has established aggro." If you blow it, it's no big deal. If you blow it four times in a row...it begins to become a big deal. Even when something is a big deal, however, I'm not one to jump down anyone's throat - but I'm also not afraid to ask someone to leave, or to explain to the group why I have to leave.

The expectations are higher in a raid group, though I know that if I'm pugging, I need to lower my expectations a lot. Like Saldana said, there are two distinct groups of people that play Warcraft - raiders and casual gamers. As a former hardcore raider, it is difficult (though not impossible) for me to instance run with casuals, because i've grown accustomed to a higher level of familiarity with the game and it's mechanics from my groupmates. Mostly, however, the people that irritate me irritate me not because of their lack of knowledge of the game, but because of their personality and mannerisms. A polite person who is trying, even if they're the worst WoW player ever, is likely to get a lot more help from me than a stud player who is a dick.
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:39 AM   #222
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Oh man, you guys are making me want to do a server transfer and dive in.

I have a nicely geared 80 dual spec Druid, though I must admit I prefer resto.

How big is the guild?
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:21 PM   #223
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I think there's about 10 people in the guild now.
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:47 PM   #224
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I think there's about 10 people in the guild now.

I guess I should roll a new toon. You guys have room for more?

I'm thinking about trying a mage.
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:50 PM   #225
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I guess I should roll a new toon. You guys have room for more?

I'm thinking about trying a mage.

Always....we play when we can...
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:32 PM   #226
Shaun Sullivan
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Okay I am in, look for a Mage named "Puresimmer" (original I know).

Throw me a guild invite when you can, thanks.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:00 PM   #227
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So you guys hooked me, got the guild going and anyone is hardly on anymore.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:40 AM   #228
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I haven't played WoW in about 2 years, but apparently someone has hacked my dormant account. Got an email saying it has been merged with a Battle.Net account and now I have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get it back. Worse, I have no idea how it was compromised so at this point everything is suspect.

Anyone else ever had their account hacked, and if so, ever figure out how it happened?
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:49 AM   #229
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Are you sure you were hacked? All accounts were required to switch to battlenet a few months ago. It may be that they finally got around to merging the dormant accounts and are letting people know.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:40 PM   #230
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I haven't played WoW in about 2 years, but apparently someone has hacked my dormant account. Got an email saying it has been merged with a Battle.Net account and now I have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get it back. Worse, I have no idea how it was compromised so at this point everything is suspect.

Anyone else ever had their account hacked, and if so, ever figure out how it happened?

My girlfriend had her level 80 hacked. No idea how, but then she logged on one day and saw she only had one copper.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:12 PM   #231
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:38 PM   #232
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Life got nutty for me soon after we hit Deadmines that first time. Some things changed at work and I got more responsibility. So, my availability pretty much went away.
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:50 AM   #233
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Well I hit 80 tonight. 10 days 18 hours.
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:25 AM   #234
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Life got nutty for me soon after we hit Deadmines that first time. Some things changed at work and I got more responsibility. So, my availability pretty much went away.

i got crazy with home and stuff with the holidays around, but now that normalcy has set back in, i should be playing some more

Quote:
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Well I hit 80 tonight. 10 days 18 hours.

are you serious?! guess you wont be running with us anymore for a while Gratz!


so do we wanna plan for a run tonight, maybe Wailing Caverns or SFK, depending on how far everyone else leveled (i'm still at 17)
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:41 AM   #235
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i got crazy with home and stuff with the holidays around, but now that normalcy has set back in, i should be playing some more



are you serious?! guess you wont be running with us anymore for a while Gratz!


so do we wanna plan for a run tonight, maybe Wailing Caverns or SFK, depending on how far everyone else leveled (i'm still at 17)

I'm on the road this week and won't be getting to a hotel tonight until about 8 pm EST. Also, I am lvl 32 now...
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:42 PM   #236
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are you serious?! guess you wont be running with us anymore for a while Gratz!

Well I figured I'd level an alt up just to run with you guys.
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:52 PM   #237
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I started up again after not playing paid-WoW for almost 2 years. Wow how things have changed...I have a lvl 65 on Scarlet Crusade and it was cool seeing all the new things. I want to start from scratch though with a new character - I know I played with you guys at one point, but I can't recall the server.
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:57 PM   #238
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Alliance on Sentinels
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:05 PM   #239
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I've got my Paladin up to 28...nipping at Lonnie's heels.
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:13 PM   #240
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i can try to grind up a few as soon as I get home to make it into the 20s
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:32 PM   #241
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It is a game, that is just way to obsessive for me. I sign on, I play, I sign off.

Definition of a casual WoW player, nothing wrong with that, some people raid on a progression content level, and they get thier enjoyment of the game from that. That's why WoW continues to grow and get bigger, they have so many was you can "play" and enjoy the game. Games within the game so to speak.
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:48 AM   #242
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so what happened to everyone last night...i went up 2 to 19.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:21 PM   #243
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Whoa. That's not too bad. My place lost power because of the rain, so couldn't do much.
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:09 PM   #244
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Do you guys have a guild on Sentinals?
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Old 01-19-2010, 03:05 PM   #245
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It's Trout Option or something like that.
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:14 PM   #246
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The only issue is only a few people have invite privileges. Our GM should give everyone that is member on down invite privileges to fix that.

I should be on this evening and can invite you if you are on.
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:16 PM   #247
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The only issue is only a few people have invite privileges. Our GM should give everyone that is member on down invite privileges to fix that.

I should be on this evening and can invite you if you are on.

I am going to find out how to transfer ownership of the guild to someone else. I am on the road this week and won't be able to do it until Friday at the earliest.

You guys tell me who to give it to.
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:23 PM   #248
PackerFanatic
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Appleton, WI
I created a dwarf hunter. I have played quite a bit over the years - although like I said earlier, this is the first time I have played in a year and a half or so - but this is only like the 3rd alliance character for me, so it will be fun checking out the areas I never really explored.
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:26 PM   #249
SirFozzie
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
Probably Lonnie or myself would be the best option.
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:50 PM   #250
Lonnie
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Midlothian, TX
I'll volunteer. I've ran a guild before so I know how to setup all the permissions. I'll probably just give everyone rights to do invites and access a guild vault. That should help out.
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