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Old 02-22-2018, 02:45 PM   #401
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:09 PM   #402
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This is pretty compelling evidence that a some type of ban on assault rifles and other types of guns and equipment would reduce, though not eliminate, incidents of mass shootings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.8255063ae197
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:17 PM   #403
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Armed deputy at Florida school resigns after failing to engage shooter

I'm sure armed teachers will be MUCH more enthusiastic about running into a firefight where they will likely be outgunned.
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:57 PM   #404
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Armed deputy at Florida school resigns after failing to engage shooter

I'm sure armed teachers will be MUCH more enthusiastic about running into a firefight where they will likely be outgunned.

Was just about to post this. Having armed security is nice and all but if they're unwilling to engage the shooter, it doesn't matter.
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:59 PM   #405
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Was just about to post this. Having armed security is nice and all but if they're unwilling to engage the shooter, it doesn't matter.

I doubt very much the pay is enough to get anything more than a deterrent.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:01 PM   #406
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To be fair, he's only the 2nd most disgraceful Scott Peterson on the planet.

These guys are trained to immediately engage, i bet the video is absolutely awful to watch.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:16 PM   #407
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To be fair, he's only the 2nd most disgraceful Scott Peterson on the planet.

These guys are trained to immediately engage, i bet the video is absolutely awful to watch.

Wow that was my thought too about the name. My next door neighbors growing up were Peterson's-no Scotts though. But they were not exactly pillars of humanity either.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:28 PM   #408
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Has the school resource officer changed since I went to school? The guy that I remember from my high school days might have gotten some information about gangs and drugs in the school. Nothing about that guy said he was prepared engage with someone with an automatic weapon. The same is true for the resource officer at the elementary school my wife teaches at now.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:47 PM   #409
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Has the school resource officer changed since I went to school? The guy that I remember from my high school days might have gotten some information about gangs and drugs in the school. Nothing about that guy said he was prepared engage with someone with an automatic weapon. The same is true for the resource officer at the elementary school my wife teaches at now.

Around here they are generally cops or retired cops.

Sounds like the Florida security guard was useless, that the local police were well aware of this kid and called something like 23 times to his house and useless, the FBI was useless... I’m actually a guy in support of gun bans (especially assault rifles) but this particular case is looking pretty bad and preventable from a everything that could go wrong went wrong.. (Or at least some of the 17 deaths were preventable). I remember reading somewhere that he took an Uber. Could have been one of those first day misinformation things but seems like the uber driver might question the tactical equipment as well? I mean at the end of the day this is on the nutcase but things look way more screwed up than typical shooter starts shooting and kills a couple type cases.

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Old 02-22-2018, 09:52 PM   #410
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I'm still very unclear on what could have been legally done. I'd love a story laying out the legal options that were available along the way.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:03 PM   #411
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These guys are trained to immediately engage, i bet the video is absolutely awful to watch.

Are they really though ? Also, say this happens anywhere else (say a bank): would any lone police officer be expected to charge towards or would protocoll demand he wait for backup ?

Sounds like a convenient scapegoat in line with the current (and very american) rhetoric of “more guns and harder, tougher, badder people standing their ground“ being the solution that is forming from up high, starting with Trump and advocated for loudly by the NRA. I mean, at least no one yet came out saying the kids could have prevented it if they were less soft or sth ...

It's pretty out there to expect anyone to engage here and acting like that is the Job they get paid for ...
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:06 PM   #412
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It certainly sounds like his job was to engage, but as Gen. Hertling pointed out today, this sort of thing is far more common in combat than we want to admit.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:07 PM   #413
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Yeah I wonder how many keyboard warriors would do exactly the same thing as the security officer.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:08 PM   #414
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My understanding is that, yes, in general around the country, the training has changed that they should engage the shooters, because average response time of SWAT is higher than the average time these shootings span.

In this specific case, the guy’s boss said “he should have gone in.“
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:12 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by miami_fan View Post
Has the school resource officer changed since I went to school? The guy that I remember from my high school days might have gotten some information about gangs and drugs in the school. Nothing about that guy said he was prepared engage with someone with an automatic weapon. The same is true for the resource officer at the elementary school my wife teaches at now.

I have to be that guy. No one in this case had an automatic weapon. Both the officer and the killer had semi automatic weapons. One used his one did not.

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Are they really though ? Also, say this happens anywhere else (say a bank): would any lone police officer be expected to charge towards or would protocoll demand he wait for backup ?

Sounds like a convenient scapegoat in line with the current (and very american) rhetoric of “more guns and harder, tougher, badder people standing their ground“ being the solution that is forming from up high, starting with Trump and advocated for loudly by the NRA. I mean, at least no one yet came out saying the kids could have prevented it if they were less soft or sth ...

It's pretty out there to expect anyone to engage here and acting like that is the Job they get paid for ...

That is precisely the job the officer signed up for and in fact swore an oath to do. To protect and serve the public interest at all costs, even his own life. That is Iiterally his job description.

And people keep using the word security officer and equating it with a mall security guard. Around here resource officers are full fledge pllice officers, have gone through the academy and actually have to pass a very detailed psych profile to ensure they relate to kids, and they are paid significantly more than other officers.

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Old 02-22-2018, 10:18 PM   #416
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Around here they are generally cops or retired cops.

Sounds like the Florida security guard was useless, that the local police were well aware of this kid and called something like 23 times to his house and useless, the FBI was useless... I’m actually a guy in support of gun bans (especially assault rifles) but this particular case is looking pretty bad and preventable from a everything that could go wrong went wrong.. (Or at least some of the 17 deaths were preventable). I remember reading somewhere that he took an Uber. Could have been one of those first day misinformation things but seems like the uber driver might question the tactical equipment as well? I mean at the end of the day this is on the nutcase but things look way more screwed up than typical shooter starts shooting and kills a couple type cases.

Isn't every single crime/murder/attack preventable in hindsight? If only, if only, if only. Life doesn't work in if only. Every event is part of a chain, inevitably, the more complex the chain (aka, life) the harder it is to break the chain that can lead to something like this. Instead of just throwing the blame ex post facto, let's work to recognize we can't prevent all bad things. Finding solutions going forward will be much more beneficial than complaining that, if only (we could have stopped it, blaming others for the failures instead), it could have been prevented.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:20 PM   #417
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Are they really though ? Also, say this happens anywhere else (say a bank): would any lone police officer be expected to charge towards or would protocoll demand he wait for backup ?

Sounds like a convenient scapegoat in line with the current (and very american) rhetoric of “more guns and harder, tougher, badder people standing their ground“ being the solution that is forming from up high, starting with Trump and advocated for loudly by the NRA. I mean, at least no one yet came out saying the kids could have prevented it if they were less soft or sth ...

It's pretty out there to expect anyone to engage here and acting like that is the Job they get paid for ...

I not sure I agree with your analogy. The bank guard might stand down and wait for backup during a robbery but I sure as hell hope he engages once they just start killing all the hostages. I mean his job is armed security guard why wouldn’t he be expected to do one of the only 1 or 2 things he is employed to do?

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Old 02-22-2018, 10:21 PM   #418
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My understanding is that, yes, in general around the country, the training has changed that they should engage the shooters, because average response time of SWAT is higher than the average time these shootings span.

In this specific case, the guy’s boss said “he should have gone in.“

This is what I read today. That they were supposed to wait for SWAT (in the past), but studies found that even against the odds, going in and challenging the shooter can reduce casualties, so the job response changed.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:23 PM   #419
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Isn't every single crime/murder/attack preventable in hindsight? If only, if only, if only. Life doesn't work in if only. Every event is part of a chain, inevitably, the more complex the chain (aka, life) the harder it is to break the chain that can lead to something like this. Instead of just throwing the blame ex post facto, let's work to recognize we can't prevent all bad things. Finding solutions going forward will be much more beneficial than complaining that, if only (we could have stopped it, blaming others for the failures instead), it could have been prevented.

Of course there are what ifs in any situation but there is also serious neglect from the sounds of it. I mean two police officers were suspended, they don’t even get suspended when they shoot and kill people.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:25 PM   #420
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This is what I read today. That they were supposed to wait for SWAT (in the past), but studies found that even against the odds, going in and challenging the shooter can reduce casualties, so the job response changed.

Yeah generally these cowards kill themselves, this case seems unusual. So engaging and shooting back at him may have him eat his gun versus kill another ten kids?
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:26 PM   #421
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I not sure I agree with your analogy. The bank guard might stand down and wait for backup during a robbery but I sure as hell hope he engages once’s they just start killing all the hostages. I mean his job is armed security guard why wouldn’t he be expected to do one of the only 1 or 2 things he is employed to do?

I more meant a cop who happened to be 50 yards from the door, not someone in the building.

In any case i stand by it being the wrong discussion to prioritice here. There's a reason why people in power or with sth to loose very, very regularly focus on human error on the microlevel when things go wrong.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:28 PM   #422
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Training is basically beeline to the shooter, ignore all else. Pussies who shoot up schools don't react well to being shot at generally.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:55 PM   #423
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All anyone needs to do is look at the Federal Air Marshal and Federal Flight Deck Officer programs. The size and scope of these programs is minuscule in comparison to what they'd like to do for schools. The FFDO program continues to have funding cut, participation levels continue to shrink. The FAM program can't get anyone who actually wants to do the job. We're 17 years after 9/11, you could argue that it's been successful, but you could also argue that it's been a massive waste of money. Just depends on how you want to look at the data. Neither has been the sole deterrent for any kind of action, planned or executed, in the sky.

Where are they supposed to get the money for what they think they want? Where are they going to find enough school psychologists to provide the kind of mental support throughout the schools to attack the 'mental health' side of the equation?

They aren't. Anything they actually end up doing, either one way or the other, will be some half assed, underfunded, under participated program that's ultimately there to make you feel like they're at least doing something.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:01 PM   #424
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Just in terms of number of armed teachers, it's basically the size of the Marine Corps. All without any proposed extra federal funding.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:08 PM   #425
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I have to be that guy. No one in this case had an automatic weapon. Both the officer and the killer had semi automatic weapons. One used his one did not.

One-on-one duel, are you taking the pistol or are you taking the AR-15?
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:06 AM   #426
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One-on-one duel, are you taking the pistol or are you taking the AR-15?
If the pistol is held by a (well) trained police officer? ... It'd be pretty close. Did the officer who apprehended the suspect have backup, or any weaponry stronger than a pistol?

I don't claim I would've done anything heroic here, and generally think putting more armed people in schools will be ineffective at best and actually increase the rate at worst, but we've seen many of these school shooting incidents end with the suspect surrendering (or committing suicide) when confronted by armed resistance, even if they still had the firepower advantage.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:35 AM   #427
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If the pistol is held by a (well) trained police officer? ... It'd be pretty close. Did the officer who apprehended the suspect have backup, or any weaponry stronger than a pistol?

I don't claim I would've done anything heroic here, and generally think putting more armed people in schools will be ineffective at best and actually increase the rate at worst, but we've seen many of these school shooting incidents end with the suspect surrendering (or committing suicide) when confronted by armed resistance, even if they still had the firepower advantage.

When they arrested Cruz he was unarmed.
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:06 AM   #428
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I fully admit that my view on the resource officer is tainted by the fact that I've only known one of them personally: Officer Jarvis Brown at Tucker High. I don't know how long he was there, but based on the time I got there ('96) and the fact that he broke his ankle breaking up a fight in 2012, it was well over a decade. He was black. Everyone called him "O.B." for Officer Brown. He knew a ton of the kids by name. Not only was he there duing the school day, but he worked security at home and away games for both football and basketball. He broke up fights. He asked kids about their grades. Many times, I saw him chew out kids who needed it. I specifically recall graduation in 2002. It was the first time I'd seen him standing on the field next to the principal and other dignitaries. Virtually every black male graduating and most of the white males didn't just shake his hand; they hugged him, and so did many of the females.

I once had a conversation with him where I praised him telling him how much I appreciated what his loving presence and firm hand of discipline when needed did for those kids, especially the many fatherless young black males. He responded something the lines of "I appreciate it, but I'm just doing my job. There's one of me in every high school in DeKalb. They all do the same stuff I do. These kids need more than just a cop." Of course, perhaps he was being overly humble; or maybe he was right and they all acted just like he did.

Point being, he's the only real frame of reference I have, and there's no scenario in the world where I can imagine O.B. standing outside of the school and doing nothing while he heard gunshots and kids screaming. None. So this revelation is absolutely unfathomable to me.
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:36 AM   #429
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I have to be that guy. No one in this case had an automatic weapon. Both the officer and the killer had semi automatic weapons. One used his one did not.

Ignorance acknowledged.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CU Tiger View Post
That is precisely the job the officer signed up for and in fact swore an oath to do. To protect and serve the public interest at all costs, even his own life. That is Iiterally his job description.

And people keep using the word security officer and equating it with a mall security guard. Around here resource officers are full fledge pllice officers, have gone through the academy and actually have to pass a very detailed psych profile to ensure they relate to kids, and they are paid significantly more than other officers.

Here is where I have to be that guy. We can't act like we have not had pages of discussion on this board about the officer's right to protect his own life and make it back home to his family. We have also said that no one knows what they would do until they are actually in that position. Especially at a school like Parkland because it is not the place where anyone expects this to happen. I say that because even after this shooting, I still don't think anyone expects this to happen at their school.

Despite all of this, I am probably more in agreement with you than not. I do have the expectation that an officer would put his life on the line in most cases. However, I do have some sympathy for this particular officer in this case. Last week must have been a terrible time for him to learn that he was not about that police officer life.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:20 AM   #430
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I fully admit that my view on the resource officer is tainted by the fact that I've only known one of them personally: Officer Jarvis Brown at Tucker High. I don't know how long he was there, but based on the time I got there ('96) and the fact that he broke his ankle breaking up a fight in 2012, it was well over a decade. He was black. Everyone called him "O.B." for Officer Brown. He knew a ton of the kids by name. Not only was he there duing the school day, but he worked security at home and away games for both football and basketball. He broke up fights. He asked kids about their grades. Many times, I saw him chew out kids who needed it. I specifically recall graduation in 2002. It was the first time I'd seen him standing on the field next to the principal and other dignitaries. Virtually every black male graduating and most of the white males didn't just shake his hand; they hugged him, and so did many of the females.

I once had a conversation with him where I praised him telling him how much I appreciated what his loving presence and firm hand of discipline when needed did for those kids, especially the many fatherless young black males. He responded something the lines of "I appreciate it, but I'm just doing my job. There's one of me in every high school in DeKalb. They all do the same stuff I do. These kids need more than just a cop." Of course, perhaps he was being overly humble; or maybe he was right and they all acted just like he did.

Point being, he's the only real frame of reference I have, and there's no scenario in the world where I can imagine O.B. standing outside of the school and doing nothing while he heard gunshots and kids screaming. None. So this revelation is absolutely unfathomable to me.

yet i bet you pretty much can look up the same sort of impressions on the guy in Florida (even in the current craze it shines through that the guy was well respected, winning a couple awards as well for his interaction with "his" students i read).

Point is you can't know how you or someone else reacts and personally, even a majority of trained personnel (and remember, we are not talking about SWAT or military but someone whose job is 99% non-violent i would bet). Maybe it's different if he's in the direct vincinity and adrenalin takes over, but having to make a conscious decision to charge towards rapid gunfire as a lone person ?


And again, i think this whole angle of personal fault is entirely the wrong line of thought for having real change and improvements.


Also, if i am among the "certain highly adept individuals" he is now pulling out of his head and read this:

“You give them a little bit of a bonus, so practically for free, you have now made the school into a hardened target,” Mr. Trump said. The president estimated that 10 percent to 40 percent of school employees would be qualified to handle a weapon — he offered no data for the claim — and said he would devote federal money to training them.

I say: Hey Mr. President, fuck you very much.

I mean, it seems likely that a lot of those candidates really qualified (from actual experience, not a few gun safety courses) chose to become a teacher to not have to carry a gun.

EDIT: From here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/22/u...shootings.html
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:57 AM   #431
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And again, i think this whole angle of personal fault is entirely the wrong line of thought for having real change and improvements.
It's not mutually exclusive.

The cop should have gone in. Even his boss said so.

AND we need real change and improvements.

SIDE NOTE: It *does* highlight the mistake of basing gun reform initiatives on a particular incident, or on high-profile mass shootings in general. Often many who want it will fall into that trap. The rank-and-file, day-to-day, serial-domestic-abuser-kills-wife-after-multiple-arrests-but-still-got-to-keep-his-gun type stuff seems to fly completely under the radar. I don't know the numbers, but I tend to suspect that the high-publicity mass-shootings that these efforts focus on make up a tiny fraction of the fairly-easy-to-reduce-with-reasonable-compromises gun violence in America.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:09 AM   #432
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It's not mutually exclusive.

The cop should have gone in. Even his boss said so.


I don't see that being a needed disclaimer. Of course his boss said so, because otherwise it would mean his whole department (and thus he) fucked up (remember they are still in the scapegoar-lottery as well).

And it doesn't mean that his boss is right in the sense that it is a reasonable expectation/likely result of whatever training these guys receive.


EDIT: And yes, the 11.000 other gun homicides (roughly) should absolutely not be left out and neither should the 21.000 suicides commited using firearms. Numbers vary of course year by year and statistics are not always accurate, but that's about the size of it. Since 1968 alone there have been more people killed by guns domestically in the US than US soldiers in all wars in history : More Americans killed by guns since 1968 than in all U.S. wars, columnist Nicholas Kristof writes | PunditFact

and here is a plethora of stats comparing the US with other developed first world countries: America’s unique gun violence problem, explained in 17 maps and charts - Vox

For example, the US are actually not noticeably more violent than many other countries. Just waaaaay more "efficient" at it due to guns. Basically, the same sort of crimes occur with equal frequency in London as in New York or Chicago, but they end up being deadly way more often in the US.

There are also roughly equal rates of non-gun suicides in states with the lowest overall rate and those with the highest. The sole differentiator is guns. Because quite simply a suicide attempt by gun is successful pretty much every time ...

There is literally a thousand different stats you can dig up that equate to a simple result: More guns = more deaths.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:37 PM   #433
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Enterprise (which is also the parent company of Alamo and National), became the first major car rental agency to stop offering an NRA member discount, and the First National Bank of Omaha got rid of its NRA Visa card, all based on customer complaints.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:08 PM   #434
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Here is where I have to be that guy. We can't act like we have not had pages of discussion on this board about the officer's right to protect his own life and make it back home to his family. We have also said that no one knows what they would do until they are actually in that position. Especially at a school like Parkland because it is not the place where anyone expects this to happen. I say that because even after this shooting, I still don't think anyone expects this to happen at their school.

Despite all of this, I am probably more in agreement with you than not. I do have the expectation that an officer would put his life on the line in most cases. However, I do have some sympathy for this particular officer in this case. Last week must have been a terrible time for him to learn that he was not about that police officer life.

I have sympathy for him as well. I like to think I know how I would react in that situation, but I havent lived it so I cant say for certain.

Where we probably diverge is I think the officer should be held criminally liable for his actions. If we are to excuse an officer for protecting his life and killing an unarmed suspect "accidentally" then I think we have to also hold him accountable for not engaging a suspect and doing his job.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:11 PM   #435
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I fully admit that my view on the resource officer is tainted by the fact that I've only known one of them personally: Officer Jarvis Brown at Tucker High. I don't know how long he was there, but based on the time I got there ('96) and the fact that he broke his ankle breaking up a fight in 2012, it was well over a decade. He was black. Everyone called him "O.B." for Officer Brown. He knew a ton of the kids by name. Not only was he there duing the school day, but he worked security at home and away games for both football and basketball. He broke up fights. He asked kids about their grades. Many times, I saw him chew out kids who needed it. I specifically recall graduation in 2002. It was the first time I'd seen him standing on the field next to the principal and other dignitaries. Virtually every black male graduating and most of the white males didn't just shake his hand; they hugged him, and so did many of the females.

I once had a conversation with him where I praised him telling him how much I appreciated what his loving presence and firm hand of discipline when needed did for those kids, especially the many fatherless young black males. He responded something the lines of "I appreciate it, but I'm just doing my job. There's one of me in every high school in DeKalb. They all do the same stuff I do. These kids need more than just a cop." Of course, perhaps he was being overly humble; or maybe he was right and they all acted just like he did.

Point being, he's the only real frame of reference I have, and there's no scenario in the world where I can imagine O.B. standing outside of the school and doing nothing while he heard gunshots and kids screaming. None. So this revelation is absolutely unfathomable to me.


Officer Pierre King. About 5'4" and called "Big King"...also a black school resource officer. Almost universally loved. But I watched him pull a football star aside coming out of the locker room after half time when said player showed his tail. I didnt hear what he said, but know what the message was and from 100 yards away I know he was in his face..and he got the response he wanted. Big King was at the table when that young man signed his NLOI earlier this month. The young man's mother or father couldn't be bothered to make it, but King did.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:19 PM   #436
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I have sympathy for him as well. I like to think I know how I would react in that situation, but I havent lived it so I cant say for certain.

Where we probably diverge is I think the officer should be held criminally liable for his actions. If we are to excuse an officer for protecting his life and killing an unarmed suspect "accidentally" then I think we have to also hold him accountable for not engaging a suspect and doing his job.

I think there was a recent Supreme Court decision on this that found that cops are not obligated to respond. I kind of agree that there should be some liability but it'd be tricky to implement.

It's what makes the armed security issue tough. You never know how people will react to real life situations. There are those in the military who no matter their training falter in combat situations. It's tough to expect the civilian population to act heroically in these situations.

Then you also have these orders and calls from a President who hid behind a doctors note when it was his time to serve. Just doesn't seem like there is an easy answer to any of this if the end result is if we're still allowing civilian access to military style weaponry.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:56 PM   #437
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Point being, he's the only real frame of reference I have, and there's no scenario in the world where I can imagine O.B. standing outside of the school and doing nothing while he heard gunshots and kids screaming. None. So this revelation is absolutely unfathomable to me.

I briefly enter this thread to make a quick comment that your story ties exceptionally well to.

One of my bigger points all week, as I keep seeing bits of "meme wisdom" regarding school security, is that among the first decision that has to be made is whether you're talking about outward facing security or inward facing security.

"O.B." seems pretty standard in my experience as far as the realistic duties of the job. It's a job that's primarily dealing with matters inside rather than outside. He may well have been outstanding at it (i.e. I'm not diminishing that possibility in the slightest) but the actual tasks involved for "school resource officers" and other nomenclature appear to be very similar in most cases.

A lot of the popular memes I'm seeing are really about an entirely different animal, but I don't think more than a tiny fraction of those eager to post 'em understand that.
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:34 PM   #438
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Non responding cop only was making $75K a year and will now collect retirement. Seriously though, non-response should be grounds to get your retirement pulled or something.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:54 PM   #439
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Non responding cop only was making $75K a year and will now collect retirement. Seriously though, non-response should be grounds to get your retirement pulled or something.

I don't know, the guilt, and the being called a coward by lord trumpian might be enough to bury him 6 feet under prematurely.
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:00 PM   #440
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Sounds like he wasn't the only one who wouldn't go in. The whole "armed security" solution doesn't quite work if all these armed law enforcement officers are scared to engage.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/polit...ies/index.html
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:09 PM   #441
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I think the term "Assault Rifle" shouldn't be used anymore. Since these are just hunting rifles, we should simply refer to them as People Hunting Rifles.
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:14 PM   #442
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I have sympathy for him as well. I like to think I know how I would react in that situation, but I havent lived it so I cant say for certain.

Where we probably diverge is I think the officer should be held criminally liable for his actions. If we are to excuse an officer for protecting his life and killing an unarmed suspect "accidentally" then I think we have to also hold him accountable for not engaging a suspect and doing his job.

Again, I don't think we really have a strong disagreement. I would say that because we have excused officers for killing unarmed suspects accidentally in order to protect his life, how can we hold an officer accountable for making the protecting of his life a priority in this case. That, however is a discussion for another thread.
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:25 PM   #443
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OK this is bizarre.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/02/23/jo...-gun-instagram
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:32 PM   #444
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Sounds like he wasn't the only one who wouldn't go in. The whole "armed security" solution doesn't quite work if all these armed law enforcement officers are scared to engage.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/polit...ies/index.html

These were just police officers though, it's not like they were highly trained teachers.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:10 PM   #445
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I think I see his point but it probably isn't the smartest thing to post in today's environment.

Jonathan Martin Reportedly Taken Into Custody Over Disturbing Post

I assume he means that bullied kids are more likely to commit mass murders so in other words don't be a bully. On some level I agree with him but there is probably a better way to communicate the message.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:37 PM   #446
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I think I see his point but it probably isn't the smartest thing to post in today's environment.

Jonathan Martin Reportedly Taken Into Custody Over Disturbing Post

I assume he means that bullied kids are more likely to commit mass murders so in other words don't be a bully. On some level I agree with him but there is probably a better way to communicate the message.

It is just locker room talk. Nothing to see here.
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:43 PM   #447
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When they arrested Cruz he was unarmed.
Yes, and that officer had no backup, and still did his job despite not knowing if he was armed or not.
Quote:
A police cruiser passed, and Officer Michael Leonard spotted him. Maroon shirt, black pants - the description matched. But Leonard said he hesitated, just for a moment. Could this really be the mass shooter he was looking for? This 5-foot-7, 120-pound teenager?

"He looked like a typical high school student," said Leonard, of the Coconut Creek Police.

Leonard called out. The young man didn't run. He laid down on the grass, and the handcuffs went on.
I don't claim I would've done better in the SRO's shoes. I understand that a lot of people (and possibly me as well) freeze when faced with a combat situation like that. But in retrospect this certainly seems like the type of kid who could've been cowed by any authority figure standing up to him, and in the moment I can't imagine very many of the people who would go in when they heard kids being shot at being worried about the relative firepower.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:35 AM   #448
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re: the LEO at the school, I am leaning towards the LEO not doing his duty but reserve judgement until I see the tape footage/analysis (and why won't they release that?).

I can see there would be a lot of confusion in the 4 min. And now there supposedly are other LEO that also hesitated.

I don't think the full story is out yet, I want to hear the LEO's point of view and give him/them the benefit of doubt.

But his resignation kinda points to him not doing his job.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:44 AM   #449
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I don't know, the guilt, and the being called a coward by lord trumpian might be enough to bury him 6 feet under prematurely.

Yup. Don't know if he has immediate family but there would be tremendous pressure/shame/guilt coming from there too.

Assuming he really is "guilty", I would put him on a suicide watch.
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:32 AM   #450
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Some new information:

Parkland, Florida high school shooting: Suspect Nikolas Cruz had swastikas on ammunition magazines - CBS News

- Looks like hurricane glass saved a lot of lives. He was on the 3rd floor and wanted to use it as a snipers nest but couldn't break the glass.

- He had swastikas on the ammunition magazines

I'm still curious what his end game was. He ditched the gun and vest so he could get away. But he couldn't possibly think he would for good, right?
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