OOTP 24 pre order starts today

[Lathum]

Out of the Park Baseball - Out of the Park Developments

I really hope they don't have the issues with PT that they had in 23

[SirFozzie]

I didn't play PT once in 23. just too much to keep track of. Most of the time, I play sports sims to get AWAY from people.

(explicit MP leagues like the ones I played in excepted)

[SirFozzie]

I understand why they're kinda staggering the release (3 days early vs no preorder on Steam), Steam probably takes a way bigger cut then whatever processor OOTP uses, even with the bandwidth costs on their end, but the conveniences of steam (organizing, ease of patching etcetera) outweighs the negatives of having to wait.

[Sweed]

I've bought Steam the last two versions and will again this year. Patches that don't overwrite all of your mods and the ease of the Workshop make it worth the wait.

[Lathum]

Looks like some cool net PT features, including what is basically a DFS lineup using your live cards. Thats really cool.

[RainMaker]

Seems like there might be some upgrades to the single player mode which is nice. Improving trading and creating a trade deadline day. Also interested in seeing how the international free agents are handled as that's been a very thin part of the game in the past.

If they improve the AI, I'm in.

Also I buy on Steam because it's just easier to deal with. I'd buy elsewhere if they provide a Steam code later on.

[Young Drachma]

I don't buy on Steam because I prefer to update it on my own when they do stuff like block the fictional NPB and then I can just stay on the same version. Steam is nice for being able to install it on several machines tho.

When they're advertising trade deadline day, it means they're not really do much on the single-play side opting for a Perfect Team emphasis per usual. I've always cracked and bought it year-to-year anyway because I do get a lot out of the game usually, but it's been harder the past few years outside of an online league to get immersed and get much value out of it.

So I'm planning to opt out of 24 and wait until 25 at this point, the lack of emphasis on the core game product for more 3D and PT stuff is fine for the people it's targeting, but not the folks who have played it forever imho

[QuikSand]

yawn

[Swaggs]

I think I have bought every year since OOTP2, but after playing '23 for a few weeks, I went back to playing OOTP22. I'm heavy into the GM side of things and actually enjoyed the addition of more coaching staff and cohesion and all that. If they have made the trading deadline more interesting (I think I read something about developing reputations as GMs) and, particularly, the international signing phase/portion into something more fun, that sounds really good to me.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think I have bought every year since OOTP2, but after playing '23 for a few weeks, I went back to playing OOTP22. I'm heavy into the GM side of things and actually enjoyed the addition of more coaching staff and cohesion and all that. If they have made the trading deadline more interesting (I think I read something about developing reputations as GMs) and, particularly, the international signing phase/portion into something more fun, that sounds really good to me.

Yeah. There really aren't a ton of new features I need in the game from a GM standpoint. I don't want it to get overly complicated just to add new features.

Trade deadline and international signing were 2 areas I thought could be expanded. Same for the draft to an extent (I wish there was more information on the draft class).

Outside of that, I just want an improved AI. Better trading, better roster management, etc. As long as some effort goes into that, I'll buy it.

[Atocep]

I've played PT extensively the past 2 versions and won Perfect League twice in PT23. I don't think PT gets as much development resources as people seem to think. PT22 to PT23 had pretty much zero changes and PT23 to PT24 has some changes, but nothing major.

The dev team for PT is also very, very small. They brought in Paul Sporer from Fangraphs late last year to help with content creation and this will be the first version he's fully involved with. PT21 and PT22 they had Kris Jardine splitting community manager and content creation duties.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Hot Take: AI Roster management and Trade AI (especially with adjusted settings) is better in Baseball Mogul than OOTP.

The AI in OOTP will never hand out ten year deals unless the human player attempts to do so first. With adjusted settings, the baseball mogul AI will hand out ten year deals and will be aggressive about going after top players.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

Hot Take: AI Roster management and Trade AI (especially with adjusted settings) is better in Baseball Mogul than OOTP.

The AI in OOTP will never hand out ten year deals unless the human player attempts to do so first. With adjusted settings, the baseball mogul AI will hand out ten year deals and will be aggressive about going after top players.

Yep, I'm thinking of returning to Baseball Mogul for the first time in years (decades?) if I get a baseball itch. OOTP lost me a long time ago and shows no signs of ever winning me back.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

The downside of Baseball Mogul is the defensive ratings/stats don't seem to matter and are all over the place so I just focus on hitting for batters and strikeouts for pitchers and it seems to work well enough.

Wish he would fix the fielding though.

But still better than OOTP because the AI presents a challenge. Budgets matter. The AI spends up to its budget and it is possible to get outbid by other teams. This rarely happens in OOTP. The only reason OOTP is a challenge is because of injuries.

[bryce]

If anyone has a subscription to The Athletic, there is a long piece out today about Markus and OOTP:

‘OOTP Baseball:’ How a German programmer created the deepest baseball sim ever made - The Athletic

[Flasch186]

The thing that I hate about mogul is every time I load the game my player’s ratings are different…. How can that be in the same save?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ksyrup]

Right on time, The Athletic released an article/promo for OOTP.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

The downside of Baseball Mogul is the defensive ratings/stats don't seem to matter and are all over the place so I just focus on hitting for batters and strikeouts for pitchers and it seems to work well enough.

Wish he would fix the fielding though.

But still better than OOTP because the AI presents a challenge. Budgets matter. The AI spends up to its budget and it is possible to get outbid by other teams. This rarely happens in OOTP. The only reason OOTP is a challenge is because of injuries.

You can rig OOTP to do what you want because of the depth. I had no idea Mogul still gets published, but I always found it to be a bit lacking for an in-depth sim though I loved it for years in the early days because it was so much faster and less intensive than OOTP. I didn't switch to OOTP until OOTP5.

[RainMaker]

I think OOTP has made strides but it will always be tough to mimic MLB since it is so customizable. When they decided to cater to the people who want a Kenyan underhand toss whiffle ball league with 14 teams and a complicated playoff format, the AI had to be flexible. Baseball Mogul can cater toward fans of actual baseball more.

Not knocking it necessarily as I'm sure they have data that tells them what people play on the game. But I always thought they should put much more emphasis on being a true MLB simulation instead of a super customizable baseball game.

[SirFozzie]

Hey great. Subscription stuff in PT. Why did I open PT again?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Hey great. Subscription stuff in PT. Why did I open PT again?

IMO totally worth it

[jbergey22]

Haha! Who didn't see that coming? Behind anything "free" comes the "plus" option. Surprisingly, it took this long.

[sovereignstar v2]

H2H?

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

H2H?

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk

I'll never get over us never getting it.

[Swaggs]

Played a season (GM only) as the Pirates. Am just into the offseason now.

First thoughts:

So far, the changes to trades are not real noticeable. The trade deadline is potentially interesting but not much of a game changer. One positive change is that you can now shop for a package of players or prospects. You can choose to allow them to pitch adding more of your players, as well. Another is that, in the emails that answer trade requests, there is now a response action that allows you to just select one of the named players they will take to complete the deal (in the past, you might have to hunt for an obscure player from one of your minor league teams - not a big deal, but a nice little addition). Anyway, the trade deadline did not feel like another event or anything, but it may have potential if they tweak it a little bit.

The international free agency is a little underwhelming. Granted I am only two months in and have not been able to sign players yet, but they have basically added fields with players' interest in signing with you and their relationship with your club. You can invite 10 international players per month (for 3 months prior to the signing date, I believe) to camps where you presumably can scout and improve the relationship. But, again, it didn't feel like much of an event and the invitations only moderately changed my scouting accuracy (or whatever the very low to very high is in scouting) and relationship with each player. I'm not sure whether to keep inviting the same players in hopes that it will push them to like me or if it is better to rotate through players. Feels like they could have done a little more here.

The other change I can think of is that you can now negotiate with the owner on some of your goals. There is a 'discuss' option on some of your owner goals. So, for example, I had the goal to get more of my drafted players producing in the major leagues and I negotiated it to finding a hometown player. This part may be a nice little addition.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Played a season (GM only) as the Pirates. Am just into the offseason now.

First thoughts:

So far, the changes to trades are not real noticeable. The trade deadline is potentially interesting but not much of a game changer. One positive change is that you can now shop for a package of players or prospects. You can choose to allow them to pitch adding more of your players, as well. Another is that, in the emails that answer trade requests, there is now a response action that allows you to just select one of the named players they will take to complete the deal (in the past, you might have to hunt for an obscure player from one of your minor league teams - not a big deal, but a nice little addition). Anyway, the trade deadline did not feel like another event or anything, but it may have potential if they tweak it a little bit.

The international free agency is a little underwhelming. Granted I am only two months in and have not been able to sign players yet, but they have basically added fields with players' interest in signing with you and their relationship with your club. You can invite 10 international players per month (for 3 months prior to the signing date, I believe) to camps where you presumably can scout and improve the relationship. But, again, it didn't feel like much of an event and the invitations only moderately changed my scouting accuracy (or whatever the very low to very high is in scouting) and relationship with each player. I'm not sure whether to keep inviting the same players in hopes that it will push them to like me or if it is better to rotate through players. Feels like they could have done a little more here.

The other change I can think of is that you can now negotiate with the owner on some of your goals. There is a 'discuss' option on some of your owner goals. So, for example, I had the goal to get more of my drafted players producing in the major leagues and I negotiated it to finding a hometown player. This part may be a nice little addition.

Thanks for the runthrough, I was curious at whether it made sense to upgrade and it sounds like not yet.

[weegeebored]

Thanks for the review. They made the trade aspect sound very enticing but it seems like it needs more work. I can wait to see what develops.

[Young Drachma]

I upgraded because I wanted the new improvements to the game engine, even if they're minimal and there was a 20% discount so I said what the hell. I will say that if you import and old league and you have Japan in it, the import is designed to entirely remove your japanese league. I have never tried this without renaming the Japanese league something other than NPB, but...just an FYI if you're plotting an upgrade since needless to say they don't mention this in any of the promotional literature.

It's not a small thing that saves are forward compatible, since FM doesn't do that, so I don't make a big deal out of it.

I will say that OOTP23 is servicable enough as a standalone and since I don't buy the Steam version, I just opted not to download the last few patches that forced Japanese leagues out of the game, so it makes the game pretty okay for what we use it for (simulation)

[SirFozzie]

Honestly, I want someone outside the OOTP ecosphere to make and host a real NPB template (I don't care about past seasons and the like).

[SirFozzie]

Just a crazy finish to my fictional 1950 season in Out of the Park 24:

Game 7 of the US Series (read: World Series), and I'm throwing my star player out there on the mound for Game 7:

Jeff Baird went 25-7 with a 2.86 ERA, averaging 8 and two thirds inning a start (remember, 1950, it was go until your arm falls off). That means 293 IP, 238 Hits allowed, and a jaw dropping 365 strikeouts for the season.


He goes out and pitches a great one in the most important game of the year. A little wild (6 walks), but he was throwing a no-no through 5, and ended up with 16k. Now, my modern manager sensibilities was like "pull him! pull him!" late in the game, as he was getting way up there in pitches (but again, 1950), as we were up 2-0 entering the ninth, but when a pitcher is pitching like THAT in game 7 of the world series-equivalent, the romance of the thing stopped me. With two outs, he gives up a double, and I half-panic, realizing that there's no one up in the bullpen. I quickly put someone to throwing..

*CRACK!*

yep, you guessed it, 2 run homer in the top of the ninth to lose the shutout AND the lead. The reliever is still not ready, but Baird bears down and gets the final out, to send it to the bottom of the ninth..

where we get a leadoff double, an infield single and a baltimore chop over the drawn in infield to win the game, the series, and the championship. Baird is the winning pitcher

I'd like to think that there was a dramatic moment in the dugout where Baird is head down in the dugout after giving up the lead, and the team rallies around him and says "Don't worry, we'll get you over the line"

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Just a crazy finish to my fictional 1950 season in Out of the Park 24:

Game 7 of the US Series (read: World Series), and I'm throwing my star player out there on the mound for Game 7:

Jeff Baird went 25-7 with a 2.86 ERA, averaging 8 and two thirds inning a start (remember, 1950, it was go until your arm falls off). That means 293 IP, 238 Hits allowed, and a jaw dropping 365 strikeouts for the season.


He goes out and pitches a great one in the most important game of the year. A little wild (6 walks), but he was throwing a no-no through 5, and ended up with 16k. Now, my modern manager sensibilities was like "pull him! pull him!" late in the game, as he was getting way up there in pitches (but again, 1950), as we were up 2-0 entering the ninth, but when a pitcher is pitching like THAT in game 7 of the world series-equivalent, the romance of the thing stopped me. With two outs, he gives up a double, and I half-panic, realizing that there's no one up in the bullpen. I quickly put someone to throwing..

*CRACK!*

yep, you guessed it, 2 run homer in the top of the ninth to lose the shutout AND the lead. The reliever is still not ready, but Baird bears down and gets the final out, to send it to the bottom of the ninth..

where we get a leadoff double, an infield single and a baltimore chop over the drawn in infield to win the game, the series, and the championship. Baird is the winning pitcher

I'd like to think that there was a dramatic moment in the dugout where Baird is head down in the dugout after giving up the lead, and the team rallies around him and says "Don't worry, we'll get you over the line"

Overplayed the hand there for sure, what a way to go out though getting it done despite the blown lead.

[lcjjdnh]

Mets folding on season has me interested in firing up OOTP. To ask the annual question: does the game “work” for long-term play through?

[Swaggs]

I think everything from my post above still stands. There are changes to the trade deadline and signing international players. It is different, but not game changing in my opinion. I like the change to the international signings, but it still largely devolves to who will offer a ton of money to the best players and you are better off signing one stud than trying to piece together a good group in most years. The trade deadline was a nice novelty for a few seasons, but I don't really do the phases any more (just quick sim through them and, if I am going to make trades at the deadline, do it before starting it). I think the draft seems a little more fun with interesting players 5-10 rounds in, where sometimes it would be like one or two guys that you could envision playing in the big leagues (which is probably realistic, but not fun in a game).

I think it is worth the upgrade, but if money is tight, it isn't a substantial upgrade from last year. I should note that I only play single player nowadays and haven't fooled with perfect game this year.

[INDalltheway]

This is probably a really dumb, elementary question, but how easy is it to play the same single-player save between 2 computers?

[whomario]

This explainer on save transfer is for 22 but presumably still valid: OOTP 22 Tutorial Series -Transfer Saved Games Tutorial - YouTube

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think everything from my post above still stands. There are changes to the trade deadline and signing international players. It is different, but not game changing in my opinion. I like the change to the international signings, but it still largely devolves to who will offer a ton of money to the best players and you are better off signing one stud than trying to piece together a good group in most years. The trade deadline was a nice novelty for a few seasons, but I don't really do the phases any more (just quick sim through them and, if I am going to make trades at the deadline, do it before starting it). I think the draft seems a little more fun with interesting players 5-10 rounds in, where sometimes it would be like one or two guys that you could envision playing in the big leagues (which is probably realistic, but not fun in a game).

I think it is worth the upgrade, but if money is tight, it isn't a substantial upgrade from last year. I should note that I only play single player nowadays and haven't fooled with perfect game this year.

I have had success with overbidding immediately (2 mio instead of 1 f.e.) and mostly get 2-3 guys i want.

As for the draft: this can be adjusted in a way: for one there is a setting that lets you determine how many prospects are created (setting the Number of draft rounds the game creates players for), this proportionally also creates more or less good prospects.
Personally i like to create for about 40 rounds (default is i think 30) and then after the Pool is announced i randomly remove quite a few 4-5 star prospects so that the Pool ends up deeper in the middle rounds but a bit less so up top.
(And a ton of the remaining high potential guys flame out anyway).

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by whomario

This explainer on save transfer is for 22 but presumably still valid: OOTP 22 Tutorial Series -Transfer Saved Games Tutorial - YouTube



I have had success with overbidding immediately (2 mio instead of 1 f.e.) and mostly get 2-3 guys i want.

As for the draft: this can be adjusted in a way: for one there is a setting that lets you determine how many prospects are created (setting the Number of draft rounds the game creates players for), this proportionally also creates more or less good prospects.
Personally i like to create for about 40 rounds (default is i think 30) and then after the Pool is announced i randomly remove quite a few 4-5 star prospects so that the Pool ends up deeper in the middle rounds but a bit less so up top.
(And a ton of the remaining high potential guys flame out anyway).

I will have to try some different approaches with the international bidding. I am 52 years into a GM dynasty (largely default except no rule 5 and I have added -1 to +2 inflation and I speed up development to 1.1 on and delay aging to .9). It has worked out pretty well with my biggest beef being that my minor leagues seemed to get clogged up, so that is partially why I started just going for one superstar in each international class.

I create 40 rounds worth of players for the drafts, as well (with a 20 round draft).

I have had a few 300 game winners in the league, several 3,000+ hitters, a few guys with multiple no hitters. It has been a fun dynasty. Getting to the point where my character is over 90 years old (have outlasted three Pirates' owners), so not sure how much longer I can go.

[Mota]

I have an issue with young players not developing. They put up terrible stats at rookie ball, because it's not just rookies there. The ratings go up very slowly, and often require 3-4 seasons at rookie before the ratings start reaching what the A players have.

This is probably a reflection of the high risk of drafting a high school player over a college player. But it is frustrating to see one ***** player after another never even making it to the majors.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Mota

I have an issue with young players not developing. They put up terrible stats at rookie ball, because it's not just rookies there. The ratings go up very slowly, and often require 3-4 seasons at rookie before the ratings start reaching what the A players have.

This is probably a reflection of the high risk of drafting a high school player over a college player. But it is frustrating to see one ***** player after another never even making it to the majors.

Could be worth tweaking your player development settings for your league, too.

[Ksyrup]

Got an email for OOTP25 at 30% off and figured I might do it but then I realized that they just jacked the price up by $10, I think. I swear it was never more than $40 and you'd get a $5 discount for pre-order to make it $35. Now I the pre-order is still $35 with a 30% discount off of $50, I guess.

Welcome to silver anniversary pricing!

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Got an email for OOTP25 at 30% off and figured I might do it but then I realized that they just jacked the price up by $10, I think. I swear it was never more than $40 and you'd get a $5 discount for pre-order to make it $35. Now I the pre-order is still $35 with a 30% discount off of $50, I guess.

Welcome to silver anniversary pricing!

It's been $39.99 since 2002. One raise in 22 years is unfair?

Markus said there would be a change, going from 24 to 25, last year on the forums. I was expecting the discount price to be the usual 10% and a $45 price tag, but they went 30% to get it down to last year's price of $35.

From the "transition" part of Markus' post my guess is this is a first year thing and it will be $45 next year. I don't see this as unfair, YMMV.

[weegeebored]

I think that OOTP is a really good game but I fail to see the need to buy every version. People made a big deal over the 3D animations but frankly they are poorly implemented imo. The sport of baseball hasn't changed that much over the years so this line from Markus cracks me up: "...the user base has grown massively, but so have the costs of development...". So more users = more revenue, and as the OOTP game hasn't changed substantially over the last few years what are these increased development costs? Those two phrases don't really go together; it's not as if every user gets a custom version that needs extra special development.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

I think that OOTP is a really good game but I fail to see the need to buy every version. People made a big deal over the 3D animations but frankly they are poorly implemented imo. The sport of baseball hasn't changed that much over the years so this line from Markus cracks me up: "...the user base has grown massively, but so have the costs of development...". So more users = more revenue, and as the OOTP game hasn't changed substantially over the last few years what are these increased development costs? Those two phrases don't really go together; it's not as if every user gets a custom version that needs extra special development.

They need more coders for the gambling machine. You would think that profit alone would reduce the game price, but as we can see from EA there is never enough income for a product that doesn't improves much or often any year to year.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Sweed

It's been $39.99 since 2002. One raise in 22 years is unfair?

Markus said there would be a change, going from 24 to 25, last year on the forums. I was expecting the discount price to be the usual 10% and a $45 price tag, but they went 30% to get it down to last year's price of $35.

From the "transition" part of Markus' post my guess is this is a first year thing and it will be $45 next year. I don't see this as unfair, YMMV.

I don't necessarily have a problem with raising the price over 25 years, but it seems like raising it now, when the game is basically a glorified roster update year over year, is unusual timing.

I haven't bought every year for a long time. And they completely lost me with the Perfect Game thing, which appears to be the priority at this point. So yeah, there was a time when I'd have gladly paid $50 for this game given what I got out of it, but that ship sailed 15 or so years ago.

[Lathum]

Perfect Team is 100% the priority and likely the reason they need bigger staff, etc...the pay to play model is strong. I exclusively play PT and love it but have never spend a dime and still get max enjoyment but if you want to make it to the top you either need to dedicate insane amounts of time or money.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

I think that OOTP is a really good game but I fail to see the need to buy every version. People made a big deal over the 3D animations but frankly they are poorly implemented imo. The sport of baseball hasn't changed that much over the years so this line from Markus cracks me up: "...the user base has grown massively, but so have the costs of development...". So more users = more revenue, and as the OOTP game hasn't changed substantially over the last few years what are these increased development costs? Those two phrases don't really go together; it's not as if every user gets a custom version that needs extra special development.

Someone needs to design all those cards that you are paying real money for.

[JonInMiddleGA]

$45 _and_ a pay to "win" model?

Either they're delusional OR the economic woes I keep hearing about aren't nearly as bad as the media wants us to believe

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Always introducing new half-measures. Very sad. Simple example of this is they extended the maximum length of contracts to 15 years, but still haven't fixed the issue of the AI never giving out more than a 7 year contract unless they are bidding against you. It has been this way since OOTP 11 at least.

[CrimsonFox]

whoa! I wonder if you have the longest name on the site

[bhlloy]

This is really the direction the industry is going in though. Minimum investment to get a fully functional and working Paradox game with the features they had previously is $200. You can probably half that if you wait very patiently for sales. NBA 2k went from the greatest console sports title ever to a blatant cash grab and shitshow in the space of 2-3 years.

The list of studios and titles who aren’t doing this is probably more notable at this point than the ones who are. I won’t be buying OOTP for a while (and I had to quit all my FHM leagues and promise I wouldn’t buy that one until they actually address any of the core features of the game) but I can’t say I’m surprised.

[GrantDawg]

Help us, Larian Studios! You are our only hope!