Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[DeToxRox]

Kos post fight, just awesome.

[thesloppy]

aaaand Koscheck heads straight for the lowroad himself. Class.

I will admit I'm already stoked for the next season of TUF.

[Flasch186]

Daley ought to next fight Mayhem Miller....

[Recoil]

WAR RUA

[DeToxRox]

Never ever thought I'd see Machida legit KO'd. Amazing performance from Shogun.

[Flasch186]

...and I love how Rua stopped himself from killing Machida instead of the Ref....YVES FUCKING LAVIGNE....stopping the fight. I hate him. I dont hate many people but I hate Yves Lavigne....Why? Because he is incompetent and is going to get someone killed.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

aaaand Koscheck heads straight for the lowroad himself. Class.

I will admit I'm already stoked for the next season of TUF.

Missed the post fight, after the punch that is. What did Koscheck do?

[Recoil]

My appropriate response after Machida was KO'd

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Missed the post fight, after the punch that is. What did Koscheck do?

It wasn't that sensational...Joe asked him how he felt about the punch and Koscheck responded by telling the crowd that "the Penguins were going to kick their asses" and then he was going to do the same to GSP, and then he blew some kisses to the booing crowd.

[Voo]

Great to see Shogun win outright this time. He absolutely brought the business.

[Calis]

Really happy to see Shogun win that one, and man did he look impressive doing so. No trouble at all getting up when on his back and looked to have Machida lost out there.

I assume Shogun will face off against the winner of Rashad/Rampage, but I'd love to see a fight against Rogerio again or throw Anderson in there with him even.

Great night of fights in general apart from the Daley/Koscheck fight/debacle.

[Recoil]

Dana said Daley will never fight in the UFC again.

[DeToxRox]

Dana just announced Kimbo was cut in the post fight presser.

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Dana just announced Kimbo was cut in the post fight presser.

I think its the right move (as he is just a name draw currenty and not too talented), BUT I hope Kimbo doesn't give up and keeps working, I think he could be a decent draw later and a decent fighter also IF he keeps working on the ground game, and more strategic stand up, I could see him on Ultimate Fight nights (fridays once a month I think) or something in the future. Its not ppv but it could be another shot in the arm for the UFC as for as bringing in a newerish and more fan base.

[TLK]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

I think its the right move (as he is just a name draw currenty and not too talented), BUT I hope Kimbo doesn't give up and keeps working, I think he could be a decent draw later and a decent fighter also IF he keeps working on the ground game, and more strategic stand up, I could see him on Ultimate Fight nights (fridays once a month I think) or something in the future. Its not ppv but it could be another shot in the arm for the UFC as for as bringing in a newerish and more fan base.

+1

Absolutely stupid to let him go.

[Oilers9911]

Why would you keep Kimbo around? He's a can. Kimbo is not going to bring new fans to the sport. If you know who Kimbo is then you are probably already a fan of the sport. He should never have been in the UFC to begin with.

[Calis]

Yeah, he absolutely needed to go. He's not improving, he's old, and what value he had has been pretty much shot by his performances.

The guy must also just have horrible knees, seems like one leg kick pretty much ruins him. He's old and one dimensional, I don't see much coming from him. I'm sure he can make some money in Japan or at a lesser organization but I certainly don't want to see him fight again in the UFC. I'm sure he brought some ratings for TUF, but I don't know what purpose he'd serve now unless they just want to embarrass him.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Calis

Yeah, he absolutely needed to go. He's not improving, he's old, and what value he had has been pretty much shot by his performances.

The guy must also just have horrible knees, seems like one leg kick pretty much ruins him. He's old and one dimensional, I don't see much coming from him. I'm sure he can make some money in Japan or at a lesser organization but I certainly don't want to see him fight again in the UFC. I'm sure he brought some ratings for TUF, but I don't know what purpose he'd serve now unless they just want to embarrass him.

I actually thought Kimbo was better on the ground than I have ever seen him as he previously would have been quickly tapped by either the Triangle or Anaconda chokes Mitrione attempted. Granted, that still doesn't say much and his conditioning is horrible. He reminds me of a smaller version of Bob Sapp, where he will either KO you in 2-3 minutes or he is done.

I do agree that at his age he will never develop the skills necessary to be anything more than the Butterbean of MMA before his fighting Shelf life runs out.

Sucks that Daly lost his cool, that was chickenshit and he deserves to be fired. That acting job by Kos was pretty appaling too, second time he has pulled shit like that. Then he goes and talks Hockey smack to the crowd, who the hell talks Hockey smack in that situatuion? I hope GSP absolutely destroys him.

[EagleFan]

I don't know if Daley should be cleared on the attempted knee to be honest. If it hit or not he still attempted an illegal knee.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I don't know if Daley should be cleared on the attempted knee to be honest. If it hit or not he still attempted an illegal knee.

His punch after the fight rendered it moot. He should be thankful he's not in jail for assault.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

His punch after the fight rendered it moot. He should be thankful he's not in jail for assault.

I agree.

After the knee when they were showing the replay it was getting on my nerves a bit as they seemed to be saying since he didn't connect he didn't do anything wrong.

He still tried to do something wrong, he just failed at it.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I agree.

After the knee when they were showing the replay it was getting on my nerves a bit as they seemed to be saying since he didn't connect he didn't do anything wrong.

He still tried to do something wrong, he just failed at it.

I didn't get the feeling they implied that at all, all they implied was that Koscheck was faking being hit which he was. It wasn't an obvious dirty knee, it was close and that type of thing happens quite a bit. Not something that seems blatantly dirty to me, it's instinctual in that situation and hard to tell if it was intentional..whereas the response looked pretty obviously planned. I don't want to encourage that sort of crap happening.

I'm not sure what you mean by cleared, like you mean he still should have the point deducted? That ends up in a pretty damn slippery slope, because how close is close. I think the penalty is for the damage it does to the other fighter, and in this case Koscheck had no damage done and was trying to portray he was almost murdered.

Now the punch after the fight if obviously inexscubable, and I think Dana made the right move. I hate to see it, because Daley is a pretty fun guy to watch when he gets to fight in extremely one dimensional way, although he did a lot better on the ground defensively than in the past, and whether that is from him improving or Koscheck being position control with nothing else I'm not sure..either way, I don't think a GSP/Koscheck rematch could be much less appealing right now.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Calis

I didn't get the feeling they implied that at all, all they implied was that Koscheck was faking being hit which he was. It wasn't an obvious dirty knee, it was close and that type of thing happens quite a bit. Not something that seems blatantly dirty to me, it's instinctual in that situation and hard to tell if it was intentional..whereas the response looked pretty obviously planned. I don't want to encourage that sort of crap happening.

I'm not sure what you mean by cleared, like you mean he still should have the point deducted? That ends up in a pretty damn slippery slope, because how close is close. I think the penalty is for the damage it does to the other fighter, and in this case Koscheck had no damage done and was trying to portray he was almost murdered.

Now the punch after the fight if obviously inexscubable, and I think Dana made the right move. I hate to see it, because Daley is a pretty fun guy to watch when he gets to fight in extremely one dimensional way, although he did a lot better on the ground defensively than in the past, and whether that is from him improving or Koscheck being position control with nothing else I'm not sure..either way, I don't think a GSP/Koscheck rematch could be much less appealing right now.

I still can't figure out what the hell he was thinking with that punch. Is he trying to get a deal with the WWE or something?

[sovereignstar]

So happy to hear that Kimbo has been cut. Give him an A for effort, but the UFC isn't a freakshow.

[DeToxRox]

Big Country vs JDS is in the works for 117. Really like that fight. JDS has yet to show anything on the ground and I suspect Nelson is gonna' give him a test.

[DeToxRox]

Also, 117 looks like it is going to be a USA vs Brazil theme as every fight announced/rumored is USA vs Brazil.

Anderson vs Sonnen
JDS vs Nelson
Alves vs Fitch
Silva vs Boetsch
Almeida vs Hughes

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Big Country vs JDS is in the works for 117. Really like that fight. JDS has yet to show anything on the ground and I suspect Nelson is gonna' give him a test.

See Nelson v. Arlovski

Nelson does well early, scores a couple of takedowns, gets stood up early while in a dominant position. Then after they get up, JDS knocks him out. End of fight.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Also, 117 looks like it is going to be a USA vs Brazil theme as every fight announced/rumored is USA vs Brazil.

...
Almeida vs Hughes

That's a bit of a stretch for a guy from New York/New Jersey, no? That's like calling Marcus Davis Irish.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

That's a bit of a stretch for a guy from New York/New Jersey, no? That's like calling Marcus Davis Irish.

But...but...he's the IRISH Hand Grenade.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I still can't figure out what the hell he was thinking with that punch. Is he trying to get a deal with the WWE or something?

Daley's move was a pussy move but if anyone deserved a sucker punch is Koschek. That's twice he has acted in a fight like that. I hope he gets his fight with GSP and GSP tools him again.

[Dutch]

I'm actually a big fan of Koscheck fighting style (minus the questionable antics) and it's obvious that he puts a ton of effort into perfecting his ability. I don't like the low-road he's taking and the image he portrays really doesn't suit him well. It's a lot of hard work just to be called a douchebag...but if that's what he wants...

[PilotMan]

Thursday's main event fight in Bellator 18 was supposed to be Hector Lombard v. Paulo Filho. And that was going to be a great match-up. Well apparently Filho didn't get his visa in time and wont make the fight. So now Lombard, the Bellator middleweight champ will take on Jay Silva (5-3) who is coming off of back to back losses and was scheduled to fight on the undercard. That is not a very appetizing match-up for a main event showcase.

[JS19]

Haven't watched the 3rd round yet (TUF), but this Arlovski look-a-like is about as useless as a cock-flavored lollipop.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by JS19

Haven't watched the 3rd round yet (TUF), but this Arlovski look-a-like is about as useless as a cock-flavored lollipop.

he doesnt seem to know what to do when he actually gets into a dominant position....he just gets side control and lays there.

[k0ruptr]

I posted this in the what are you reading thread but also thought I'd throw it in here:

Why I fight - The belt is just an accessory - BJ Penn's new biography book about his life, his fighting, and all the answers to questions everyone remotely interested in MMA /UFC / BJ has wondered.

Just started so not so sure if its the greatest read, but just wanted to get the word out there, I'm sure it will be interesting, and already has stirred some controversy with Dana White. It seems decent, check it out if any of this peaks your interest

[Voo]

Impressive performance by Overeem, made Rogers look like a tool. Really looking forward to his fight vs Fedor as long as Werdum doesn't pull off the upset.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JS19

Arlovski is about as useless as a cock-flavored lollipop.

Fixed that for you.

[Recoil]

Rogers landed ONE punch. Wow. Completely outclassed.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Recoil

Rogers landed ONE punch. Wow. Completely outclassed.

Fedor's performance against Rogers kind of makes you rethink his legacy, huh?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Fedor's performance against Rogers kind of makes you rethink his legacy, huh?

No. Different fights. Fedor was on top of the PRIDE Heavyweight division when Overeem was just barely treading water at LHW. That doesn't make me think any different of Overeem.

Just like Ray Mercer making short work of Tim Sylvia doesn't make me think he could beat anyone that took longer than 9 seconds to stop Sylvia.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by dubb93

No. Different fights. Fedor was on top of the PRIDE Heavyweight division when Overeem was just barely treading water at LHW. That doesn't make me think any different of Overeem.

Just like Ray Mercer making short work of Tim Sylvia doesn't make me think he could beat anyone that took longer than 9 seconds to stop Sylvia.

Fedor's legacy will always be tainted regardless, even before Overeem slaughtered Rogers. I'm sorry Fedor lovers, but fighting cans, gatekeepers and highly overrated UFC castaways for the last five years will do that to you.

As I mentioned earlier, Fedor was the top dog back in 2005. Since then he has done nothing noteworthy while a number of highly touted and, even more important, highly skilled fighters have come on the scene.

Just from a perspective standpoint, let's take a look at Josh Gross' top ten pound for pound fighters from from March of 2006.

1. Fedor
1a. Taka Gomi
3. Matt Hughes
4. Rich Franklin
5. Chuck Liddell
6. Wanderlei Silva
7. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueria
8. Antonio Rogerio Nogueria
9. Dan Henderson
10. Georges St. Pierre

Now compare that to his list from April of 2010 (this is pre-Machida vs. Rua).

1. GSP
2. Fedor
3. Anderson Silva
4. Jose Aldo
5. Lyoto Machida
6. Dominik Cruz
7. Jake Shields
8. Frankie Edgar
9. BJ Penn
10. Jon Fitch

Just think about that for a second. The only two guys that are in that top 10 still are Fedor and GSP. Gomi, Franklin, Liddell, and Wanderlei don't even crack the top 10 of their respective weight classes (although to be fair, he does give Franklin an honourable mention under light-heavyweight when he would obviously be ranked in the top 10 at middleweight). Meanwhile, Hughes, the Nogueria's and Henderson are no higher than 5th in their respective weight class.

What has GSP done to jump from #10 to #1? At the time, he was coming off a five fight win streak with his two most recent wins being over BJ Penn and Sean Sherk, currently ranked #2 and #8 respectively at lightweight.

Since that time, he has gone 9-1, including dominant victories over the #2 ranked welterweight Jon Fitch, #3 Thiago Alves, #5 Josh Koscheck, #6 Matt Hughes (twice), and #8 Dan Hardy. His lone loss was to Matt Serra, which he later avenged in convincing fashion.

Fedor's only two victories against any ranked opponents in that time have been over #9 Andrei Arlovski and #10 Brett Rogers, mind you those rankings were before this weekend and those two are sure to drop. That's pretty much saying that since August of 2005, Fedor won't have a victory over any fighter ranked in the current top 10 of any weight class. On top of that, he looked vulnerable at times in both of those fights.

And this is the top heavyweight in the world, not to mention a fighter still considered the top pound for pound fighter in the world by some?

The fact is, that if the Rich Franklin's, Matt Hughes', Wanderlei Silva's, etc. would have ducked the top competition and faced only second tier fighters, they too would still have immaculate records. Would that be enough to still warrant them consideration in the top 10 P4P rankings?

[k0ruptr]

100% agree.

[PilotMan]

Good argument.

I had thought that when Fedor signed to fight for Strikeforce that he would be fighting a lot more than once per year. The fact of the matter is that there is no real excuse for anyone other than him to stand in there against Overeem. He had beaten Rogers and then took a break. At his ranking it should have been expected that he would take on Overeem for the title.

Instead, what we have is some stupid, boxing-like promoter relationship. That is precisely what keeps MMA better than boxing. In boxing we should have had Paqman v. Floyd already, but why dont we? Money and promoters. Thats it. If that shit starts coming into MMA it's over. All this growth and popularity is the reason why it never should.

Overeem has the experience and just looks like an effin monster in the cage now. He would compete at the top level in the UFC at this point. He was taking a ration of crap for not fighting in the states sooner, but how can you blame him when he was making crazy money fighting for K-1.

As far as Fedor goes, a fight against Werdum is alright, but it's taken too long and as the top heavyweight in the world, why don't you want to fight for the title?

I don't think he wants to go to the UFC. I don't think he ever will unless it's for a one-off promo show. His promotion company, that he owns, want's too much control, and the won't let the matchmaker's do their jobs.

This whole thing comes out smelling funny. Rogers looked totally lost on his back with a guy the size of Overeem on him. I don't think that Silva or Werdum are on his level, and I still remember the way that Werdum's ears wobbled when JDS knocked him senseless.

In the end, it's hard to stick up for a guy who won't take the hard fights, and whose company demands too much control. But I won't take anything away from him in the cage, until it's his time. But I think that his time is coming, sooner rather than later.

[dubb93]

I think that what gets lost in the shuffle is that from 2006 on Fedor has more wins over people ranked in Josh Gross's top 10 Heavyweights than anyone else on the list not named Frank Mir. This is not to mention his past wins over Nog x2 would put him well over what anyone else on that list has done.

Here is the list along with their wins.

1. Fedor (Arlovski, Rogers)
2. Brock (Mir)
3. Cain Velasquez (Nog)
4. Shane Carwin (Mir)
5. Frank Mir (Lesnar, Nog)
6. Junior dos Santos (Werdum)
7. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (Werdum)
8. Brett Rogers (Arlovski)
9. Andrei Arlovski (Werdum)
10. Fabricio Werdum (Nobody)

Outside of Frank Mir nobody has fought a who's who of Heavyweights. I'm not here to defend Fedor, I just think that it is funny that everytime someone he has beaten gets exposed everyone comes out of the woodwork and chucks him under the bus. Do we chuck out all of the Mir and Nog wins since they both looked like amateurs in their last fight? Do we chuck out all of the Werdum wins if Fedor exposes him? Outside of joining the UFC(which he will not do) who do you want Fedor to fight? He either holds a win or is gearing up to fight every non UFC top 10 Heavyweight on that list.

The fact remains in my mind he is the most entertaining Heavyweight out there. And that counts for alot in my book. I just have no interest in bashing a fighter who keeps me entertained every single time he fights.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I think that what gets lost in the shuffle is that from 2006 on Fedor has more wins over people ranked in Josh Gross's top 10 Heavyweights than anyone else on the list not named Frank Mir. This is not to mention his past wins over Nog x2 would put him well over what anyone else on that list has done.

Here is the list along with their wins.

1. Fedor (Arlovski, Rogers)
2. Brock (Mir)
3. Cain Velasquez (Nog)
4. Shane Carwin (Mir)
5. Frank Mir (Lesnar, Nog)
6. Junior dos Santos (Werdum)
7. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (Werdum)
8. Brett Rogers (Arlovski)
9. Andrei Arlovski (Werdum)
10. Fabricio Werdum (Nobody)

Outside of Frank Mir nobody has fought a who's who of Heavyweights. I'm not here to defend Fedor, I just think that it is funny that everytime someone he has beaten gets exposed everyone comes out of the woodwork and chucks him under the bus. Do we chuck out all of the Mir and Nog wins since they both looked like amateurs in their last fight? Do we chuck out all of the Werdum wins if Fedor exposes him? Outside of joining the UFC(which he will not do) who do you want Fedor to fight? He either holds a win or is gearing up to fight every non UFC top 10 Heavyweight on that list.

The fact remains in my mind he is the most entertaining Heavyweight out there. And that counts for alot in my book. I just have no interest in bashing a fighter who keeps me entertained every single time he fights.

This.

[thesloppy]

I just want to comment on how much this season of TUF sucks. Between this season and last, when was the last time there was a decent fight on the show? At least last season had Rampage and Rashad going apeshit on eachother, but this season all we got is Chuck's mysterious outside obligations that cause him to miss every other fight.

And I could see how it sounded like a good idea beforehand, but knowing how often people get injured in the sport and the show, the 'wild card' is an obviously horrible idea. This is ostensibly supposed to be a simple, single elimination tournament, yet we somehow got stuck with two fights last night (one even a second rounder) in which all four of the competitors had lost their first round fight. How stupid is that?

[sovereignstar]

Sylvia with the takedown!

[Flasch186]

LOL

[PilotMan]

Anyone been watching Bellator? I have been getting caught up on all of the last few shows and have seen all of the tournament fights so far. There have been some pretty good performances and some others that haven't been so. I still love the format. Gotta love Lombard's 6.5 second KO win two weeks ago. Even better that a few of these guys are in my Cage Warrior's dynasty and it's been fun to see them fight. Dan Hornbuckle's last win was slick.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Anyone been watching Bellator? I have been getting caught up on all of the last few shows and have seen all of the tournament fights so far. There have been some pretty good performances and some others that haven't been so. I still love the format. Gotta love Lombard's 6.5 second KO win two weeks ago. Even better that a few of these guys are in my Cage Warrior's dynasty and it's been fun to see them fight. Dan Hornbuckle's last win was slick.

Yup. Gotta root for my boy Joe Warren. That Lombard KO was awesome though. Been a lot of fun.