Werewolf XXXVII: Middle-Earth - GAME ENDS. Who Won? Check it out!

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Sorry, it's tough to get in on the discussion, especially when a lot of the previous day's conversation was on stuff far above my head. Add in that this is my first game, I've been pretty hesitant. Another part of this is that I don't have the knowledge of people's playing styles from previous games that most of you guy's do...despite trying to read some of the games, it's tough keeping track of ppl.

There...maybe that'll break the seal for me.

It's okay. It'll get much easier as you play. Also, most games aren't this large, so it's much easier to keep track of things there.

[KWhit]

Anybody have a vote count?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Anybody have a vote count?

(8) Chief Rum - Saldana (482), Alan (504), Schmidty (552), Lathum (555), Blade (574), Jonathan Ezarik (577), Thomkal (585), Grammaticus (593)
(5) Lathum - St.Cronin (557), Tyrith (565), Mr. Wednesday (583), Swaggs (594), Ntndeacon (595)
(1) Saldana - Chief Rum (446)
(1) Blade - Izulde (484)
(1) St.cronin - Sndvls (532)
(1) Spleen - BrianD (554)

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm. just finally got in from going in to work (and getting transferred) and dinner with a glass of wine to catch up on the 4 pages of today.

so CR is the prime suspect and Lathum is the #2?

Jon-I already explained that I voted late last night because I didn't get online till late, as with today, not getting on till around 8pm EST. So I only have 2 hours before the vote to catchup and cast a vote. As for tonight, we still don't know anything beyond that Scoobz was...a questionable character...did we even figure out if he was "evil" or just "shadowey?" Fouts we know was good. It's still a bit early to draw anything out of voting patterns/records, so I guess we have to go with reading people's posts to see how they're acting.

So what exactly is the case for Rum? Although I have sort of seen this type of behavior from him before in the first game I played where he led me down a path and had me buying into his goodness while he was evil. But he does have work-related things, that much I remember.

What's the case for Lathum? Anyone? I think if we were going to look at anyone it'd be saldana for his vigerous early attacks...no?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

strongly disagree

I think right now that both lathum and chief are good, so i have to find a way to distinguish the two. Of the two, i see more positives in chief's death then lathums...my opinion, take it for what it is

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Alan T

If you think Chief is good, then don't vote him. Sheesh

I dont think lathum or chief are bad, but i have to pick one. Vote you again and ill start to get accused of throwing my vote away. If you dont care, and will support me when those calls come, ill happily swap my vote to you.

[KWhit]

Vote Lathum.

I think our reasoning for CR is weak and hopefully this will get things closer and therfore tell us a little more down the line.

I may move this vote if I have to to get a majority though.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

If you think Chief is good, then don't vote him. Sheesh

strongly agree

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I dont think lathum or chief are bad, but i have to pick one. Vote you again and ill start to get accused of throwing my vote away. If you dont care, and will support me when those calls come, ill happily swap my vote to you.

Does it really matter what I say when anything i say you use to try to get others to distrust me? If you compared posts side by side between you and me and looked to see who was the more accusatory of the two from day 1, everyone would easily see its been you trying to get me lynched since day 1 and not the other way around.

My opinion is you should do what you feel is in the best interest of your side (whatever that is in this game at this point) and don't even think about blaming your actions on me tommorrow. I'm not telling you who to vote for, I am using your vote to judge you further.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

hmmm. just finally got in from going in to work (and getting transferred) and dinner with a glass of wine to catch up on the 4 pages of today.

Well, did you get the promotion or was it a transfer to siberia?

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE CHIEF RUM

VOTE ALAN T

Fine, but dont come back in two days saying why am i throwing my vote away and avoiding lynches

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Well, did you get the promotion or was it a transfer to siberia?

didn't get the promotion, but got a short-term transfer to a location that about halves my commute and shouldn't be for more than a couple months till i get the promotion.

so that's good i guess.

still pondering the vote. I think I'm going to go out for an hour, get a coffee and walk the dog and mull my vote...vote in the last hour before lynch...if that's okay and not-suspicious with everyone.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I think right now that both lathum and chief are good, so i have to find a way to distinguish the two. Of the two, i see more positives in chief's death then lathums...my opinion, take it for what it is

I feel quite strongly that sal and al are both villagers. I think you're muttering "my precious" up the wrong tree.

I do agree that it's possible, even likely, that Lathum and CR are both villagers. A game this large, and particularly with this ruleset, I think we are best served by looking at those players who are utr.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

UNVOTE CHIEF RUM

VOTE ALAN T

Fine, but dont come back in two days saying why am i throwing my vote away and avoiding lynches

Blade, aren't you on the side of light?

Don't throw a vote away out of spite. We need to build a track record.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

As for tonight, we still don't know anything beyond that Scoobz was...a questionable character...did we even figure out if he was "evil" or just "shadowey?"

5. Scoobz0202 - Lynched Day One. Silvos the Dark Adept, on the side of darkness.

[Sublime 2]

Vote Lathum

Like others have said, it's good to see a two player 'race' to see what happens, so for now I'm going to vote Lathum, unless votes are needed for another at the deadline.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

UNVOTE CHIEF RUM

VOTE ALAN T

Fine, but dont come back in two days saying why am i throwing my vote away and avoiding lynches

Just making sure I understand it correctly when its my fault if you vote for Chief Rum and its my fault if you don't vote for Chief Rum.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

UNVOTE CHIEF RUM

VOTE ALAN T

Fine, but dont come back in two days saying why am i throwing my vote away and avoiding lynches

I disagree with that vote, but I'd rather have people voting for those they think are bad, even if it results in no lynch. No lynch is NOT a terrible play - it's not a good play, but there are situations in which it's good for the village.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I feel quite strongly that sal and al are both villagers. I think you're muttering "my precious" up the wrong tree.

I do agree that it's possible, even likely, that Lathum and CR are both villagers. A game this large, and particularly with this ruleset, I think we are best served by looking at those players who are utr.

Who would you suggest? I can definately go the UTR route. The majority thing is just causing problems.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

UNVOTE CHIEF RUM

VOTE ALAN T

Fine, but dont come back in two days saying why am i throwing my vote away and avoiding lynches

If he does I've got your back.

[Lathum]

OK, so to this point we have gotten alot of info. We need to look at the people who have voted for someone other the myself or CR. And I know I am good so I am suspicous of the people who are voting for me. If we do lynch CR and he comes up bad we have a strong start to work off of and if we lynch me that is a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I feel quite strongly that sal and al are both villagers. I think you're muttering "my precious" up the wrong tree.

I do agree that it's possible, even likely, that Lathum and CR are both villagers. A game this large, and particularly with this ruleset, I think we are best served by looking at those players who are utr.

I agree, but it's hard to come up with any good reason to motivate a UTR lynch, at least that people will follow along with. Unless it's like yesterday and someone just isn't playing.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Who would you suggest? I can definately go the UTR route. The majority thing is just causing problems.

In a big game like this, there's going to be a lot of people utr, plus it's pretty early to really have a handle on anybody. It's really all about perception.

I agree, the majority thing is killing us. If we just bandwagon on the first guy to get two votes every day, we're going to get killed.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I disagree with that vote, but I'd rather have people voting for those they think are bad, even if it results in no lynch. No lynch is NOT a terrible play - it's not a good play, but there are situations in which it's good for the village.

I'm glad there is someone besides me that isn't so bloodthristy they have to kill every day

[spleen1015]

Being a victim of the way Chief Rum has played previous and the way he is playing now means...

VOTE Chief Rum

I said earlier that I would vote for him unless something changed and I don't see anything to change it.

I also find it neat that Tyrith is so aginst voting for him today. If Chief is bad, then Tyrith jumps to the top of the list for me.

[Lorena]

I just got back from the gym and received my PM. C-ya'll in a little bit...

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Blade, aren't you on the side of light?

Don't throw a vote away out of spite. We need to build a track record.

Is that a joke?

I cant do anything right..either im voting for someone i dont believe is bad, and people dont like it...or im voting someone who is not in the race, and people dont like it...i love this game

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Being a victim of the way Chief Rum has played previous and the way he is playing now means...

VOTE Chief Rum

I said earlier that I would vote for him unless something changed and I don't see anything to change it.

I also find it neat that Tyrith is so aginst voting for him today. If Chief is bad, then Tyrith jumps to the top of the list for me.

I'm not so against, but we have SO MANY OPTIONS right now. Why pick a guy that isn't going to be around to defend himself? What possible good motivation is there to it? I understand Alan doing it; he has a precise reason. But some of the other early votes were just "oh, he acts like this when he's bad", while it's probably a couple days too early for that, and the rest is a sheer dogpile. Why not pick someone that could reveal a good role if they have one instead of taking it to the grave with themselves? If you want to lynch me for having independent thoughts tomorrow, sure, go ahead.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Is that a joke?

I cant do anything right..either im voting for someone i dont believe is bad, and people dont like it...or im voting someone who is not in the race, and people dont like it...i love this game

Yeah, this is really annoying overall. No matter what you do there is someone that can make an argument that will wind up with you dead...that's how I feel about all the votes today. No matter what happens if someone is willing to charge at you enough they can find something incriminating today.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Is that a joke?

I cant do anything right..either im voting for someone i dont believe is bad, and people dont like it...or im voting someone who is not in the race, and people dont like it...i love this game

It's no joke at all. With 25 people, this is still like a day 1 vote. I doubt either of these guys are on the dark side, either, but it worked yesterday. And, if it turns out that this is a close, two-man race, vote, we may be able to look back on today's and yesterday's votes to put together a decent list of suspects, particularly since we did hit yesterday.

I can understand your frustration, but don't play angry. Play smart.

[SnDvls]

I don't like chief or lathum as a vote today so I'm not moving my vote.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It's no joke at all. With 25 people, this is still like a day 1 vote. I doubt either of these guys are on the dark side, either, but it worked yesterday. And, if it turns out that this is a close, two-man race, vote, we may be able to look back on today's and yesterday's votes to put together a decent list of suspects, particularly since we did hit yesterday.

I can understand your frustration, but don't play angry. Play smart.

You aren't the one he's frustrated at. He's frustrated because he changed his vote because Alan told him to vote for who he thought was bad, and here you are arguing the exact opposite way. He's screwed into a corner because no matter what he does one of you will be able to argue he wasn't doing what he should be.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It's no joke at all. With 25 people, this is still like a day 1 vote. I doubt either of these guys are on the dark side, either, but it worked yesterday. And, if it turns out that this is a close, two-man race, vote, we may be able to look back on today's and yesterday's votes to put together a decent list of suspects, particularly since we did hit yesterday.

I can understand your frustration, but don't play angry. Play smart.

I'm sorry, but yesterday was a joke for voting. I started it on scoobz with thinking he never really intended to sign up. Anxiety corrected that for us stating that scoobz was in fact playing.

It was a shot at someone who didn't check in. almost everyone jumped on him, some sooner than others, but there really wasn't a lot to look at with him.

[st.cronin]

btw, these were the first four votes for scoobz:

sndvls
alant
lsg
fouts

The first three are my circle of trust right now.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I'm sorry, but yesterday was a joke for voting. I started it on scoobz with thinking he never really intended to sign up. Anxiety corrected that for us stating that scoobz was in fact playing.

It was a shot at someone who didn't check in. almost everyone jumped on him, some sooner than others, but there really wasn't a lot to look at with him.

Yes. Yesterday's vote was totally not about allegiance -- it would not surprise me if bad guys were in on it because the writing was on the wall. Today is going to be fairly bad if we even get a lynch off because there are people that are voting for the sake of getting a lynch, not because of allegiance again. Overanalyzing these first few days of voting is going to cause us to make bad lynches later...in fact, overanalysis tends to get us into trouble no matter what it's about, at least historically.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

You aren't the one he's frustrated at. He's frustrated because he changed his vote because Alan told him to vote for who he thought was bad, and here you are arguing the exact opposite way. He's screwed into a corner because no matter what he does one of you will be able to argue he wasn't doing what he should be.

Like I said, don't pin anything on me. I only said for him to vote who he wants to vote and leave me out of it. I'm not forcing him to vote anyone and I'm using his votes to judge him. I said this in my post to him. If he thinks I'm bad then so be it. I'm not the one attacking him, he's attacking me. I just want him to stop saying I have ultimate power over his will and decisions.

[SnDvls]

okay I'll bring up the no lynch option like others have

in the rules it says that darkness can overwhelm the good. a 1:1 ratio isn't the wolves winning condition as they can overwhelm us.

are we thinking that might be a 2 to 1 ratio (good to bad)? why don't you vote for who you want if we don't lynch we don't lynch, but the evil will have to make a kill and our seer or bodyguard will eventually nab someone.

we can forced the darkness's hand here. make them do the work. as people die we can see their votes and see who is still around.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I'm sorry, but yesterday was a joke for voting. I started it on scoobz with thinking he never really intended to sign up. Anxiety corrected that for us stating that scoobz was in fact playing.

It was a shot at someone who didn't check in. almost everyone jumped on him, some sooner than others, but there really wasn't a lot to look at with him.

Do you think his teammates didn't know who he was? Do you think they piled on? Do you think they may have piled on after the die was cast, so they wouldn't look bad?

I think there is information to take away from the Day 1 vote. Sorry if you disagree.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

btw, these were the first four votes for scoobz:

sndvls
alant
lsg
fouts

The first three are my circle of trust right now.

Heres my problem with this...we have two evil factions, who cannot win the game with the other. So both evil factions want to eliminate the other, and likely dont know its members. So i can assume the first 3 are good, as the other evil faction had just as much reason to want scoobz dead as the rest of us.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

btw, these were the first four votes for scoobz:

sndvls
alant
lsg
fouts

The first three are my circle of trust right now.

I can understand trusting them more than other people, mathematically, but like last game there is always the situation where both one of the voters and the target were bad, they just didn't know it. So while I agree with you it's to be weighed in the context of the game, as we eventually figure out what the rules actually are.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

btw, these were the first four votes for scoobz:

sndvls
alant
lsg
fouts

The first three are my circle of trust right now.

With there being 4 sides, even if Scoobz was on Saruman's side like I thought, I don't think you can say any of us (including myself) who voted for him isn't necessarily on Sauron's side. I think yesterday's vote might tell us about who was on Saruman's side, but not who is necessarily good or bad

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

btw, these were the first four votes for scoobz:

sndvls
alant
lsg
fouts

The first three are my circle of trust right now.

funny thing is you said I wasn't there yesterday (I know it was day one,but it was funny at the time) and today I'm voting for you because of your vote for me yesterday and that I wanted to hear more from you today. (which you are giving me)

just found it ironic

[Blade6119]

so i cant*

[st.cronin]

I would call the following players utr, just at first glance:

BrianD
ntndeacon
Schmidty
Mr. Wednesday
Izulde
Thomkal
Grammaticus
Sublime2
DaddyTorgo

[st.cronin]

Oh, I totally realize that one of those players could be bad. It's a starting point, is all.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Do you think his teammates didn't know who he was? Do you think they piled on? Do you think they may have piled on after the die was cast, so they wouldn't look bad?

I think there is information to take away from the Day 1 vote. Sorry if you disagree.

I think that info can be taken from it, but not by lynching a good guy today.

see this game isn't like most (at this point with so many people required to lynch) where a simple majority lynches. we have to have half plus one.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaargh. i don't know...there's really not that much to go on at this point, beside CR seeming suspicious for a bit. why did everyone get away from saldana after his attack on CR again?

[SnDvls]

dola - not saying lathum or CR are good either I just don't like them today

[DaddyTorgo]

st cronin...how am i UTR? I have plenty of posts in here, and I havn't been around 800 hours a day true, but that's because RL has reared its ugly head a bit.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I think that info can be taken from it, but not by lynching a good guy today.

see this game isn't like most (at this point with so many people required to lynch) where a simple majority lynches. we have to have half plus one.

A simple majority is a half plus one, aka 51 out of 100 as in the US Senate. Most of our games have lynches done by a plurality instead of a majority. Just a semantic difference in terminology.