Malaysia Airlines Flight 370

[Qwikshot]

I wonder if now, based on the events, they had an oxygen failure. They may have been trying to turn back but expired, and the plane headed West until fuel failure.

More sinister, would be yes, the pilot turning off the transponder and doing it deliberately, making search parties look in the wrong spot until most evidence was washed away from the plane crashing into the ocean after losing all fuel.

Jesus, that's horrific.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by molson

Could a pilot do anything to make the plane more difficult to track during a flight and more difficult to find wreckage of after a crash? Like if he just wanted himself and the plane to "vanish"?

I don't get why it would go that far off course, the Air Egypt, the guy just gunned it for the ocean as soon as the captain was out of the cockpit.

[corbes]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

oxygen failure.

I have the Payne Stewart flight in mind. Couldn't that be at least part of the explanation?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by corbes

I have the Payne Stewart flight in mind. Couldn't that be at least part of the explanation?

It definitely could, but if that happened, you'd think that the transponders and such would have continued to function.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by corbes

I have the Payne Stewart flight in mind. Couldn't that be at least part of the explanation?

How would that affect the locating equipment?

edit: Too slow.

[cartman]

Now another Malaysian air force official is refuting the reports that the military tracked the plane hundreds of miles to the west of the last transponder location. What a charlie foxtrot.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, I'm not sure what they expected. "I'm sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed because this phone is currently at the bottom of the ocean."

Yea I'm not sure what they were expecting either, of course it's going to ring in your ear, it's a cell phone. Conspicuously absent from cell phones (never mind the name of them) is that long chord that plugs into the wall.

[PilotMan]

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that radar is very spotty in that area. Even when I'm flying east of the US over the Atlantic I go out of radar contact, even though I'm in radio contact. The company and ATC rely on reports that I or the plane make to get position reports. So when the news says "they lost radar contact" it doesn't mean that the plane just disappeared. It means that there wasn't coverage and it was supposed to get back into radar coverage until it was closer toward Vietnam. It never checked in and they lost track of where the plane was.

Now I don't know about the automated ACARS that the 777 has, but a few circuit breaker pulls and I can disable that and the transponder. If I just stop reporting on the radio I'm basically invisible. I have charts and I can see where there is radar coverage and where there isn't.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Now I don't know about the automated ACARS that the 777 has, but a few circuit breaker pulls and I can disable that and the transponder. If I just stop reporting on the radio I'm basically invisible. I have charts and I can see where there is radar coverage and where there isn't.

Is there any legitimate reason you would ever do this?

[PilotMan]

Nope

Not in the line of the job of transporting people.

And again, there are 2 of us, and 1 of us would surely object. To physical combat if it came to that.

[Qwikshot]

This is an extended range plane yes? Based on its trajectory (going West) what land would it hit...if any? How far can it go?

[RainMaker]

It took them days to find the Air France flight. Years to uncover the majority of the wreckage and bodies. Unfortunately this is one of those cases where we realize just how vast the planet is.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

This is an extended range plane yes? Based on its trajectory (going West) what land would it hit...if any? How far can it go?

Depends on what the fuel load was. If they were flying to Beijing, that is supposed to be around a 6 1/2 hour flight, so the plane was likely loaded with 8 1/2 or 9 hours worth of fuel. If that's the case, then with a cruise speed of 550mph, at least 3000 miles from the last known point.

[PilotMan]

It probably had enough fuel to fly to it's destination and at least another 45 min depending on the weather in China when it left. Any altitude changes would shorten that. So yeah, it's got a solid 7 hours of fuel. It can go a long, long way.

{edit: OOOH! LOOK AT THE BIG BRAIN ON CARTMAN! }

[JediKooter]

You would think that an aircraft as fairly modern as the 777, would have a GPS tracking device on it. Or does it already have one?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I think, whoever was calling those numbers heard a 'ring', not that the passengers phones were actually really ringing. If I turn my cell phone off, if someone calls my number, they will hear still a 'ring'.

I always thought it would go straight to voicemail if someone's phone was off?

I do wonder if they could track the GPS of a phone. Depending on how catastrophic the crash was, a phone or two could have survived inside a suitcase or something. Even if the battery has died, perhaps they could have traced it's last known ping?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I always thought it would go straight to voicemail if someone's phone was off?

I do wonder if they could track the GPS of a phone. Depending on how catastrophic the crash was, a phone or two could have survived inside a suitcase or something. Even if the battery has died, perhaps they could have traced it's last known ping?

Maybe their cellular network is set up a bit different than ours here in North America?

Yes, you would think at least one phone would have been able to be tracked to a certain degree, given that you know not everyone complies with turning off their phones and putting them into airplane mode.

I understand that the ocean is huge and deep, but, I just find it amazing that in the second decade of the 21st century, it's still freaking hard to find a modern aircraft given all the technology that is available. Reading about this, you would think Glenn Miller was on that flight.

[cartman]

I've found that when someone is roaming, often times that the phone will 'ring' while it is trying to locate them. I think that is why they were getting the rings when dialing from China, but not when they were dialing from Malaysia.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I understand that the ocean is huge and deep, but, I just find it amazing that in the second decade of the 21st century, it's still freaking hard to find a modern aircraft given all the technology that is available.

Me too.

[PilotMan]

I think a lot of people underestimate the actual size of the ocean and land. I did CAP in high school. We would do practice search and rescues and some of them could be downright difficult, and this was wide open ND. The ocean is an entirely different animal and every day it gets exponentially harder.

The ELT should have been installed on the plane and it should have gone off in any accident. No ELT either means it was not installed, not functional or the plane didn't crash. It's something that doesn't depend on doing anything at all. So not having it here is a bit of a mystery.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I think a lot of people underestimate the actual size of the ocean and land. I did CAP in high school. We would do practice search and rescues and some of them could be downright difficult, and this was wide open ND. The ocean is an entirely different animal and every day it gets exponentially harder.

The ELT should have been installed on the plane and it should have gone off in any accident. No ELT either means it was not installed, not functional or the plane didn't crash. It's something that doesn't depend on doing anything at all. So not having it here is a bit of a mystery.

Who made you the expert on all things flying??

Oh wait...

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Who made you the expert on all things flying??

Oh wait...

The nerve. You'd think he was a pilot or something!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

The nerve. You'd think he was a pilot or something!

I know, right?

[sterlingice]

Spoiler

I'm not saying I wouldn't ever fly a flight with this guy, but it seems like he's thought an awful lot about how to make a plane "disappear", if you know what I mean

SI

[cartman]

This is the only other recent story I'm aware of where a large jet has disappeared. They still haven't found this one.

History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Air & Space Magazine

[cartman]

Vietnam has now said they are suspending searches until Malaysia can clarify the scope of the search.

[JediKooter]

Sounds like there's a few factors in not being able to locate the airliner and one of those factors reeks of incompetence.

[cartman]

The Guardian has been doing a pretty good job of doing running updates on the situation. It has been where I've been getting my updates from over the past couple of days.

MH370 search goes on amid confusion over plane's disappearance – live | World news | theguardian.com

[JediKooter]

Good link cartman.

[bhlloy]

Almost seems like the Malaysian government/air force is covering something up at this point. I can think of one thing an air force would want to cover up that seems way too far fetched, but there is precedent for this kind of thing - I was shocked at how many shoot down or near shoot down incidents there have been over the years

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Almost seems like the Malaysian government/air force is covering something up at this point. I can think of one thing an air force would want to cover up that seems way too far fetched, but there is precedent for this kind of thing - I was shocked at how many shoot down or near shoot down incidents there have been over the years

Would explain why they heard nothing from the pilots.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I always thought it would go straight to voicemail if someone's phone was off?

No. The number will ring some, then go to VM even if the phone is underwater.

Source: My son lost his phone, we called and called it to try and locate, it kept ringing and then going to VM. Come to find out, he had put it through the washer and it was dead.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Sounds like there's a few factors in not being able to locate the airliner and one of those factors reeks of incompetence.

And / or politics...

[Mike Lowe]

Any good TV coverage of this? CNN won't stop talking about this NYC gas leak. #boring.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

Any good TV coverage of this? CNN won't stop talking about this NYC gas leak. #boring.

Nice sensitivity with two confirmed dead already and a lot of people unaccounted for.

[Matthean]

Oil Rig Worker: 'I Saw the Malaysia Airlines Plane Come Down'

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Pretty good timeline if anyone wants to get regular updates.

Malaysia government warns hunt for missing plane 'could take months' - Telegraph

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by bryce

And / or politics...

Oh yes, that too for sure. Though sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between politics and incompetence.

[Mike Lowe]

Originally Posted by Logan

Nice sensitivity with two confirmed dead already and a lot of people unaccounted for.

If it wasn't in NYC and included building collapses, it wouldn't be on. Talk to CNN about sensitivity!

[cartman]

The Chinese have located some satellite images that look interesting. From The Guardian thread:

Malaysia airliner: China releases satellite images of possible crash site – live | World news | theguardian.com

[Mike Lowe]

Seems promising...if there is such a use of the word in all of this :/

It was awful seeing the frustrated families...I'm not sure how I'd deal with it, but man...that was terrible to watch. I guess they just want to know for sure that no one's out floating on a wreckage raft or something.

[cartman]

I don't think China would make anything public if they weren't certain that the info was useful. Malaysia has provided a perfect example of how not to conduct an operation such as this.

[cartman]

The sun is now up in KL. Should find out within the next few hours if there is anything in the pics from the Chinese satellites.

MH370: Satellite images show possible crash debris in South China sea – live | World news | theguardian.com

[bbgunn]

Just want to say that this thread is by far one of the most civil on the subject that I've come across on the Internet.

On a personal level, I was actually vacationing in Kuala Lumpur when MH370 went missing, and we were scheduled to fly out of the same airport the very next morning (although on a different airline). Let me tell you: it is really difficult to get on an airplane and fly out of the same airport, and fly almost the same route (KL-Osaka - a little more east than Beijing), the day after something like that happens, and not feel uneasy about it. When we flew over the search area, I had to force myself to take a nap. I was extremely relieved once I made it back to Japan.

[DaddyTorgo]

Glad to hear you're alright bbgunn!

[cartman]

The US 7th fleet has said that the Chinese satellite pictures aren't going to cause them to change their search area. Not sure if that means they've already gone over that area, or they have other info they are going on.

[cartman]

And now it is looking like the Chinese satellite pics aren't of the plane.

[bbgunn]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Glad to hear you're alright bbgunn!

Thank you!

Originally Posted by cartman

And now it is looking like the Chinese satellite pics aren't of the plane.

Wow, what a mystery this is turning out to be.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by bbgunn

Wow, what a mystery this is turning out to be.

Definitely. There are over a dozen counties involved in the search. The land is in a area that is among the most densely populated regions on the planet, and the waters are among the busiest shipping channels. Nearly 100,000 square kilometers have been searched, and nothing yet has been seen. Officially the last thing known was the location when the transponder stopped transmitting on Saturday. Pieces of the Air France plane had been found floating in the middle of the Atlantic by this time of their search.

[RainMaker]

The Malaysian government is not looking good throughout this.