The Trump Presidency – 2016

[GrantDawg]

Governor Brian Kemp is a Trump sycophant that I thought had no redeeming qualities, but I think he made a good decision in refusing Trump and naming Kelly Loeffler as a replacement Senator. Trump wanted him to name Rep. Doug Collins, whose mouth is permanently attached to his butt. Instead, he named a woman who can play well with women in the suburbs were Republican support is waning. To me, the state still has a few years before it can/will turn truly purple, but another Trumpist would have given Dems the best chance of flipping the seat. I think now it is going to much tougher for whoever (most likely Jon Ossoff) to unseat her.

[Atocep]

Barr went public today to disagree with the IG's finding on how the FBI handled the Russia investigation. This is setting things up for his side investigation into his own DOJ to throw everyone under the bus to protect the President and justify removing more dems and Obama appointees from government jobs.

Barr's conduct since being appointed by Trump and his recent speeches about the war with the left makes it clear why he was interested in the job and why he was appointed.

[JPhillips]

According to Pew, 43% of Republicans now think the country's problems could be addressed better if presidents didn't have to worry about congress or the courts.

I'm more and more concerned that we won't get out of this.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm more and more concerned that we won't get out of this.

Don't worry, they'll all come around and be ready to disband the presidency when the next D is elected.



Otoh, I honestly cannot fathom how people can't see the dangers that the country is facing.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I always knew there was power amongst us.

Quicksand engulfs a bipartisan plan that even trump backs.

just stay in line and nobody has to get the same fate

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

There's already a fair amount of evidence that Trump was overvaluing his assets for loan applications and undervaluing them for taxes.

Who would have guessed that the well documented liar would lie regarding just about everything, including loan and tax paperwork.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

According to Pew, 43% of Republicans now think the country's problems could be addressed better if presidents didn't have to worry about congress or the courts.

I'm more and more concerned that we won't get out of this.

right there with you on this

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Barr went public today to disagree with the IG's finding on how the FBI handled the Russia investigation. This is setting things up for his side investigation into his own DOJ to throw everyone under the bus to protect the President and justify removing more dems and Obama appointees from government jobs.

Barr's conduct since being appointed by Trump and his recent speeches about the war with the left makes it clear why he was interested in the job and why he was appointed.

Perhaps all those R's that say that they're more centrist (I'm looking at you Susan Collins) will stop acting like you really give a shit to the media when the appointee comes before them and say that they're really going to look closely at the appointee and listen to their answers for we know, we really know since you've seen it with Barr and others, that what they say to the committee is NOT at all what it'll be like when they reluctantly get approved even though they're concerned.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

According to Pew, 43% of Republicans now think the country's problems could be addressed better if presidents didn't have to worry about congress or the courts.

I'm more and more concerned that we won't get out of this.

He is going to win another term.

I also think the first thing he does, either publicly or privately, will be to start laying the groundwork to change the constitution to allow additional terms. We really are facing the death of our nation as we know it.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

He is going to win another term.

I also think the first thing he does, either publicly or privately, will be to start laying the groundwork to change the constitution to allow additional terms. We really are facing the death of our nation as we know it.

You know he already has visions of passing the torch to Donald Jr. in 2024 if he can't circumvent the constitution (And again the irony here as the GOP treats it like the Holy Grail on things that they stand for) thereby starting a faux family dynasty, ala his idol in NK.

[spleen1015]

If he someone how manages to make it so that he can run for a 3rd term, I think it would be a good time for Obama to make a return.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

If he someone how manages to make it so that he can run for a 3rd term, I think it would be a good time for Obama to make a return.

Oh don't worry, there will be the 'Obama Clause' to prevent that.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Lathum

He is going to win another term.

I also think the first thing he does, either publicly or privately, will be to start laying the groundwork to change the constitution to allow additional terms. We really are facing the death of our nation as we know it.

I'm not sure we can easily survive another election where the person with the most votes comes in second.

I'm not worried about Trump as king. He's already deteriorating quickly enough that I can't imagine he could even run for a third term. If we get through the aftermath of another Trump win with fewer votes, the bigger problem is going to be the next person, right or left, that isn't lazy and stupid the way Trump is. That person will see the Trump years as a beginning, not an end.

[JediKooter]

Trump Impeachment Report

[Edward64]

Survey and conclusion about why the impeachment % hasn't moved up.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/03/polit...sis/index.html

Most voters are locked into their impeachment positions. About 85% of voters in our October and November polls said they felt strongly that Trump should or shouldn't be impeached and removed. Only about 15% of voters didn't have a strong feeling about impeachment or had no opinion at all.

It's this 15% that you might think would be swayed by news coverage of the impeachment proceedings. There's just one problem with this line of thought: They mostly aren't paying attention.

Of those voters, a small 12% of them say they are paying very close attention to the impeachment proceedings. The majority (55%) say they aren't paying close attention.
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But there's another element at play here: Voters feel impeachment is not all that important in the grand scheme of things.

Our poll released last week asked voters to tell us how important eight different issues would be in determining their 2020 vote. Only 46% said the impeachment inquiry into Trump was extremely or very important to their vote. That was good enough for dead last. To put it in further perspective, the top two issues for voters were economy at 83% and health care at 80%.

[Edward64]

From the same article, link to the CNN poll. Page 4 shows what is most important to Dems vs GOP.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...EL13B-2020.pdf

Dems

• Healthcare - 55%
• Climate Change - 52%
• Gun Policy - 43%
• Immigration - 42%
• Impeachment - 39%
• Economy - 32%
• Foreign policy - 32%
• Trade with other countries - 24%

GOP

• Economy - 50%
• Gun policy - 45%
• Health care 36%
• Immigration - 35%
• Trade with other countries - 28%
• Foreign policy - 25%
• Impeachment -15%
• Climate change - 7%

Internet surveys/comparisons says I lean some towards GOP but can honestly say I've voted both parties and am not tied to one party. I go for the person that I believe aligns with my top interests/concerns and/or the lesser of two evils.

From the list, my order is

1) Economy - assume debt/deficit is included
2) Trade with other countries - assume this includes China trade/IP etc. and long term consequences. If not China, this would be further down on my list
3) Immigration - 3 & 4 can be swapped
4) Healthcare
5) Foreign policy - I include wars we are in (and easing away from)
6) Impeachment - I say do impeachment out of principle but let the election really decide one way or another
7) Climate change
8) Gun policy

[Radii]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Otoh, I honestly cannot fathom how people can't see the dangers that the country is facing.

Oh,they absoultely see the dangers. Some see dangers to their own wallets and don't care who gets hurt to protect that. Some see the dangers of brown people in our country and if it takes a dictator to stop that then that's completely okay. Some realize that if a democrat gets elected the military starts going door to door taking everyone's guns the next day, and again if we need to make Trump a dictator to stop that, we need to. And I guess we can't forget that many are willing to watch the world burn as long as they vote for a candidate who is against abortion.

We've 100% got our prioritties in the right places, its all good.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

According to Pew, 43% of Republicans now think the country's problems could be addressed better if presidents didn't have to worry about congress or the courts.

I'm more and more concerned that we won't get out of this.

I seriously don't understand the lack of perspective. Republicans are getting their butts kicked in every election since Trump was put in office. As has been discussed before, America (and not just this country of course) has a long tradition of believing things like, for example, that obstruction of justice is not sufficient grounds for impeachment. Not all that long ago, post-Trump's election I think, there was a discussion of the rule of law and a sizable majority around here including some of those now freaking out didn't think it was that big of a deal and the foundation of our society was just fine on that front thank you very much.

What is new here is simply a difference of degree, and frankly not that much of one. The foundations have been laid for decades if not longer. . This is why trust in the media has dropped like a rock, people practically prefer infotainment to hard news of the day, and so on.

[Ben E Lou]

Welp. We'll be withdrawing from NATO now.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...-nato-n1095351

[Ben E Lou]

Oh dear.


I was just joking, y'all!


Trump to Leave NATO Meeting Early After Video Catches World Leaders Appearing to Mock Him

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Oh dear.


I was just joking, y'all!


Trump to Leave NATO Meeting Early After Video Catches World Leaders Appearing to Mock Him

Doesn't take much to melt a snowflake...

[albionmoonlight]

I am trying to think of one single voter who is currently against impeachment who will have his mind changed by "A bunch of liberal law professors just told Congress that they should impeach Trump."

[JediKooter]

From some of what I've read about today's testimony so far, the democrats witnesses(?) make the republican's witnesses look like how a pro athlete would play against some schlub that's played at no higher a level than a rec league.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

From some of what I've read about today's testimony so far, the democrats witnesses(?) make the republican's witnesses look like how a pro athlete would play against some schlub that's played at no higher a level than a rec league.

Who is the pro athlete in this scenario! The dem or republican?

[spleen1015]

The dems.

These constitutional law professors are doing a pretty good job explaining all of this shit.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Who is the pro athlete in this scenario! The dem or republican?

The dems by a mile is the pro. On the repubs side it's all about someone's dog being mad...even worse than the Chewbacca Defense.

[Lathum]

Haven’t listened to much of today’s hearings. Just tuned in. Glad to hear republicans still don’t ask questions and use their five minutes for grandstanding.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Haven’t listened to much of today’s hearings. Just tuned in. Glad to hear republicans still don’t ask questions and use their five minutes for grandstanding.

"Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for one's self."

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Haven’t listened to much of today’s hearings. Just tuned in. Glad to hear republicans still don’t ask questions and use their five minutes for grandstanding.

That and several motions for a roll call. It's almost like they know they really don't have to defend trump at all since once the impeachment process moves to the senate for removal, they know that's where this whole thing will go to die under Moscow Mitch's watch.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Radii

Oh,they absoultely see the dangers. Some see dangers to their own wallets and don't care who gets hurt to protect that. Some see the dangers of brown people in our country and if it takes a dictator to stop that then that's completely okay. Some realize that if a democrat gets elected the military starts going door to door taking everyone's guns the next day, and again if we need to make Trump a dictator to stop that, we need to. And I guess we can't forget that many are willing to watch the world burn as long as they vote for a candidate who is against abortion.

We've 100% got our prioritties in the right places, its all good.

Yes agree. In particular “Some see dangers to their own wallets and don't care who gets hurt to protect that. ” even on this board I have noticed with the right leaning folks.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Oh dear.


I was just joking, y'all!


Trump to Leave NATO Meeting Early After Video Catches World Leaders Appearing to Mock Him

Let's face it, NATO is hardly worth the paper it's written on at this point. And that goes beyond Trump.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Let's face it, NATO is hardly worth the paper it's written on at this point. And that goes beyond Trump.

No.

It's not an accident that western Europe has been free of war since 1945. The post-war order has been one of mankind's great successes.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I am trying to think of one single voter who is currently against impeachment who will have his mind changed by "A bunch of liberal law professors just told Congress that they should impeach Trump."

I am trying to think of one single voter who is currently against impeachment who will have his mind changed by anything less than a terrorist holding a gun to his daughter's head and screaming to support it, while also offering him a million dollars and a gun rack.

[Brian Swartz]

My brother is one of those. Other relatives are as well. Many of them have disgust for Trump, there's just basically in the camp of not wanting impeachment for anything short of a proven violent felony committed by the POTUS(or whatever other position) themselves.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

My brother is one of those. Other relatives are as well. Many of them have disgust for Trump, there's just basically in the camp of not wanting impeachment for anything short of a proven violent felony committed by the POTUS(or whatever other position) themselves.

It's a good thing it's the position of POTUS and his lawyers that he can literally shoot someone as President and be immune from investigation for the crime then, amirite?

[PilotMan]

Don't get me wrong, I said about a year ago, that we were beyond impeachment, and we were at the point where a straight resignation should have been accepted. The fact that there's still an argument over IF he should be impeached, let alone removed, is just dumb, imo.


The bar started at, "does this equate to Nixon" and has been moved to, "he the president, or course he can do it" no matter what, it is.



We went from R's screaming about the near constant use of Exec Priv, as a means to direct law, as being a near impeachable and nothing short of a monarchic dictatorship, to the president should be burdened with the courts, or congress. I mean, what the actual fuck?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Don't get me wrong, I said about a year ago, that we were beyond impeachment, and we were at the point where a straight resignation should have been accepted. The fact that there's still an argument over IF he should be impeached, let alone removed, is just dumb, imo.


The bar started at, "does this equate to Nixon" and has been moved to, "he the president, or course he can do it" no matter what, it is.



We went from R's screaming about the near constant use of Exec Priv, as a means to direct law, as being a near impeachable and nothing short of a monarchic dictatorship, to the president should be burdened with the courts, or congress. I mean, what the actual fuck?

I wish people would stop thinking that Republicans mean anything they say. They only say and do things that gives them their way. Rule of law is important when it comes to restricting Democrats. Presidents can't use Executive Privileged for anything, as long as there is a "D" beside their name. Ignoring congressional subpoenas is a crime, unless you do it as a Republican. Foreign influence in our elections should be stopped, unless it helps Republicans.



And the saddest part is, we have 40% of the people, many of whom are taking the brunt of the Republicans terrible policies, that are just fine with it. Heck, more than fine.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

And the saddest part is, we have 40% of the people, many of whom are taking the brunt of the Republicans terrible policies, that are just fine with it. Heck, more than fine.

FoxNews comment section is FULL of folks literally threatening armed revolt if they don't get to pay their insurance premiums. It's absurd.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

The bar started at, "does this equate to Nixon" and has been moved to, "he the president, or course he can do it" no matter what, it is.

"A Narcissist's Prayer" has been quoted going back years on countless things happening in this administration.

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did...
You deserved it.

We've been in the proverbial "you deserved it" range for a really long time now on all of these issues. The leap the administration, fox, and voters will make overnight from "the president didn't do that, that's illegal and he doesn't do illegal things" to "of course the president did that and everyone should its not a big deal" has just become staggering. That 40% base won't ever care.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Let's face it, NATO is hardly worth the paper it's written on at this point. And that goes beyond Trump.

With the Putin/Russia resurgence, it has a role. However, I am with Trump in asking the NATO allies to pay more. Also, I don't think Turkey is a good fit, maybe at one time, but we shouldn't have frenemies in NATO.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/thre...-bad-deal.html

In 2014, all NATO members agreed to increase their defense spending to 2% of gross domestic product by 2024.

As of June 2019, NATO data estimated that only seven of its 29 members — including the U.S. — are estimated to spend 2% or more of their annual GDP on defense this year.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

With the Putin/Russia resurgence, it has a role. However, I am with Trump in asking the NATO allies to pay more. Also, I don't think Turkey is a good fit, maybe at one time, but we shouldn't have frenemies in NATO.

You do understand that strategically, Turkey sits in the catbird seat between Russia and the Mediterranean. For NATO, that is prime, prime real estate. Russia would love to have complete control (via alliances and influence) of that region and should NATO lose that, it's a big set back for the US and it's ability to float big things in the Black Sea. They are well aware of this, and the tolerance for the things that Erdogan has done that mimic Putin has given rise to the nationalistic influence that Russia propagates in the region.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

You do understand that strategically, Turkey sits in the catbird seat between Russia and the Mediterranean. For NATO, that is prime, prime real estate. Russia would love to have complete control (via alliances and influence) of that region and should NATO lose that, it's a big set back for the US and it's ability to float big things in the Black Sea. They are well aware of this, and the tolerance for the things that Erdogan has done that mimic Putin has given rise to the nationalistic influence that Russia propagates in the region.

Sure its strategic. Nevertheless, a frenemy within NATO countries isn't good.

[JPhillips]

The second annual Reagan National Defense Survey, completed in late October, found nearly half of armed services households questioned, 46%, said they viewed Russia as ally.

Mostly driven by GOP members of the military.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Sure its strategic. Nevertheless, a frenemy within NATO countries isn't good.

At this point, the US is frenemies with Germany and France (and probably most of NATO).

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

At this point, the US is frenemies with Germany and France (and probably most of NATO).

Sure we can say that superficially but doesn't compare.

They know Trump will exit in 1-5 years but no same assurance with Erdogan. US is also paying much more into this alliance than Turkey (or Germany & France for that matter).

[JPhillips]

We aren't trying to kick Turkey out of NATO as long as we have nuclear warheads based there.

Now there's a good argument for removing those warheads, but until that happens we'll let Turkey get away with a lot.

Oh, yeah, and Trump is corrupt and is getting God knows what from Erdogan.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

We aren't trying to kick Turkey out of NATO as long as we have nuclear warheads based there.

Now there's a good argument for removing those warheads, but until that happens we'll let Turkey get away with a lot.

Do we really need those nukes there? My vote would be relocated the nukes into Greece, that will really stir things up!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Sure we can say that superficially but doesn't compare.

They know Trump will exit in 1-5 years but no same assurance with Erdogan. US is also paying much more into this alliance than Turkey (or Germany & France for that matter).

Erdogan hasn't always been this hostile to the US. Some of that is due to the failed coup in 2016 and the aftermath, but a lot is how Trump has handled the relationship. US has dealt a fine line with autocrats before - giving a bit of leash where we look the other way for bigger strategic interests.

[Edward64]

So we now have a Saudi Arabia's air force officer killing us (and supposedly co-students, at best, passively involved)

It wouldn't surprise me as much if it was some grunt but these (I assume like their US counterparts) are highly educated, screened, and loyal.

Must be more to the story.

https://apnews.com/75a8adc71422596a54052540fabb7230

The Saudi student who fatally shot three people at a U.S. naval base in Florida hosted a dinner party earlier in the week where he and three others watched videos of mass shootings, a U.S. official told The Associated Press on Saturday.
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The official who spoke Saturday said one of the three students who attended the dinner party hosted by the attacker recorded video outside the classroom building while the shooting was taking place. Two other Saudi students watched from a car, the official said.

Ten Saudi students were being held on the base Saturday while several others were unaccounted for, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity after being briefed by federal authorities.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

We aren't trying to kick Turkey out of NATO as long as we have nuclear warheads based there.

Now there's a good argument for removing those warheads, but until that happens we'll let Turkey get away with a lot.

Oh, yeah, and Trump is corrupt and is getting God knows what from Erdogan.

Trump Tower, Istanbul?