Soccer Thread 2014-15

[cartman]

Originally Posted by whomario

not that it matters much, but: What website claims his team was in the 4th divsion ? Just so that i make sure not to rely on them when i want to fill my finish soccer needs ... (the club was a mid-table first division team that played in the Europa League as recently as 3 years ago)

It was this link that I saw:

Adu parts ways with KuPS after three months | Soccer By Ives

The five first-team matches Adu took part in were in April and May, after which he was relegated to the club’s reserve team, which plays in the fourth division of Finnish soccer.

I guess it was the reserve team that was in the 4th division.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Any D1 Men's team would wipe the floor with them, and I'd actually put a wager on most really good HS teams. Abby Wambach has been a dominating physical and aerial presence at 5'11/180 - the team my HS played for the state title last year had 7 starters 6'2 or taller, it just is what it is. So yeah, I'll watch WWC for patriotism reasons and if other people are into it, but I'll also go watch HS games if I know players involved. If MLS struggles to gain traction because it's not the best soccer in the world, why would a clearly inferior product?

The WNT would beat the crap out of any top HS boys team, I mean seriously you must be joking. We have a couple of top girls teams in our soccer club that beat the crap out of same age boys teams in our club. I'm talking girls who will lay some of these boys out and have just as much skill and athleticism.

At higher levels, sure they would beat the WNT, but they wouldn't wipe the field with them.

Women's soccer is much more entertaining than the men's side, at least for me.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

The WNT would beat the crap out of any top HS boys team, I mean seriously you must be joking. We have a couple of top girls teams in our soccer club that beat the crap out of same age boys teams in our club. I'm talking girls who will lay some of these boys out and have just as much skill and athleticism.

At higher levels, sure they would beat the WNT, but they wouldn't wipe the field with them.

Women's soccer is much more entertaining than the men's side, at least for me.

Last known match was the US U-17 v. the full women, the boys won 8-2 (in 2012).

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

The WNT would beat the crap out of any top HS boys team, I mean seriously you must be joking. We have a couple of top girls teams in our soccer club that beat the crap out of same age boys teams in our club. I'm talking girls who will lay some of these boys out and have just as much skill and athleticism.

At higher levels, sure they would beat the WNT, but they wouldn't wipe the field with them.

Women's soccer is much more entertaining than the men's side, at least for me.

I read an article about the sweedish women playing a mens armature club team and loosing.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, the notion that the Women's team has the physical strength and speed of adult Men's teams is just not borne out by the facts. It's basic biology. And it really isn't close, to be honest.

Anyways, speaking of adult Men's, the USMNT didn't look all that good, but won 2-1 in its first Gold Cup match against Honduras... so, the result is good. Some really shaky defense at the end by the US though.

[britrock88]

^ made for exciting soccer, at least.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

The WNT would beat the crap out of any top HS boys team, I mean seriously you must be joking. We have a couple of top girls teams in our soccer club that beat the crap out of same age boys teams in our club. I'm talking girls who will lay some of these boys out and have just as much skill and athleticism.

At higher levels, sure they would beat the WNT, but they wouldn't wipe the field with them.

Women's soccer is much more entertaining than the men's side, at least for me.

Not joking. Girls mature faster than boys and even in ODP it's close through U12, maybe U14. But post-puberty the athletic difference is too drastic and even better technique can only do so much when there's a ~40 pound difference on average. I've seen it live in hockey - USWNT prepares for the Olympics etc by playing the top prep schools, they play "no body checking" and the usual scores are 8-0, 11-1 while those teams are rolling 4 lines instead of only playing their best kids. We can quibble about details (USWNT would probably be favored vs Concord-Carlisle boys soccer) but it's an actual game, while them vs any D1 Men's team wouldn't be.

I don't say this to be mean or sexist, it doesn't take away from the effort they put in or skill involved, and I'm fine if people enjoy women's soccer more than I do, but truth is truth. Like whomario says, people have no trouble accepting the vast physical difference in individual sports, but people always argue it when you talk about the USWNT or D1 teams in team sports. The Olympic Women's 2012 100m dash was won in 10.75 seconds... that wouldn't have even qualified for the boys HS final. Top HS tennis players serve as fast as the top women in the world, the top HS golfers drive as far as the top women in the world.

"Entertainment" or aesthetic value is a different argument because that can be subjective and in the eye of the beholder, but sheer ability is not.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yeah, the notion that the Women's team has the physical strength and speed of adult Men's teams is just not borne out by the facts. It's basic biology. And it really isn't close, to be honest.

Anyways, speaking of adult Men's, the USMNT didn't look all that good, but won 2-1 in its first Gold Cup match against Honduras... so, the result is good. Some really shaky defense at the end by the US though.

Thank god for Clint Dempsey. I kept wanting to feel bad for Honduras because they were actually attacking and outplaying us for long stretches, but every time I did they would flop egregiously again. Freaking Central.American teams.

Btw, I didn't even realize the Gold Cup was on tonight, so idk what Jurgen's plan was, but I gotta question his selection process too. Why the hell was I watching Kyle Beckerman, Chris Wondolowski and Brad Evans? They were borderline too old in 2014, they'll almost certainly be too old for 2018, and I hope they don't need to be there for "veteran leadership" when Clint Dempsey, Michael Bradley, Brad Guzan are there.

[MrBug708]

Jurgy being Jurgy

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Last known match was the US U-17 v. the full women, the boys won 8-2 (in 2012).

Interesting... I'm surprised by that.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Not joking. Girls mature faster than boys and even in ODP it's close through U12, maybe U14. But post-puberty the athletic difference is too drastic and even better technique can only do so much when there's a ~40 pound difference on average. I've seen it live in hockey - USWNT prepares for the Olympics etc by playing the top prep schools, they play "no body checking" and the usual scores are 8-0, 11-1 while those teams are rolling 4 lines instead of only playing their best kids. We can quibble about details (USWNT would probably be favored vs Concord-Carlisle boys soccer) but it's an actual game, while them vs any D1 Men's team wouldn't be.

I don't say this to be mean or sexist, it doesn't take away from the effort they put in or skill involved, and I'm fine if people enjoy women's soccer more than I do, but truth is truth. Like whomario says, people have no trouble accepting the vast physical difference in individual sports, but people always argue it when you talk about the USWNT or D1 teams in team sports. The Olympic Women's 2012 100m dash was won in 10.75 seconds... that wouldn't have even qualified for the boys HS final. Top HS tennis players serve as fast as the top women in the world, the top HS golfers drive as far as the top women in the world.

"Entertainment" or aesthetic value is a different argument because that can be subjective and in the eye of the beholder, but sheer ability is not.

Well ODP here is Missouri is a joke. I see what you're saying though. I watch a lot of girls college soccer since I have two daughters who have been playing for years and I can see your point in that respect. I just think if you take the best girls players from the US (and they are not all on the WNT) and play a D1 men's team, it wouldn't be a slaughter... but I could be wrong.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Why the hell was I watching Kyle Beckerman, Chris Wondolowski and Brad Evans?

You weren't the only one cursing Kyle Beckerman on every missed pass and just generally being around.

I also don't get why they continue to run Wondolowski out there. Let's get literally any other strikers some time.

[Easy Mac]

I only saw the second half, but man we (royal we) looked terribly slow. It seems like we never adjusted to the high press and constant pressure. Zardes looked horrendous on the wing while I was watching, hopefully we don't try that in a competitive match for a while. Timmy Chandler's 1 competent performance every 10 games shouldn't be enough to give him a permanent home on the right.

I didn't think Alvarado and Brooks were as bad as most of the pundits. They got beaten because they (or at least Brooks) didn't have the speed to recover from playing a high offside trap. And Bradley and Beckermann appeared to have no interest in playing defense in the middle of the field, which meant Honduras were constantly right at the central defense's feet.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by britrock88

^ made for exciting soccer, at least.

That sort of excitement is kind of cheap for me, to be honest. I'd be much more satisfied with decent defense and a pressing opponent probing for weaknesses (phrasing?). I'm more frustrated than anything else when an opponent just sends searching through balls and they get through due to the back four being so bad.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Why the hell was I watching Kyle Beckerman, Chris Wondolowski and Brad Evans? They were borderline too old in 2014, they'll almost certainly be too old for 2018, and I hope they don't need to be there for "veteran leadership" when Clint Dempsey, Michael Bradley, Brad Guzan are there.

Generally speaking, aside from last night, Beckerman is plenty solid. And, of course, the Gold Cup isn't a tune up for 2018, it's a tourney to win on its own (and of course Klinsmann realizes he may get fired if the US crashes out early - it's happened to USMNT coaches before). I dunno why there was Wondo and Evans on the squad, but I do know I'd probably take Wondo over Altidore (or as some sites refer to him as "Anti-Goal") anyday.

But, Klinsi has gotta stop with the 4-4-2 diamond formation. This may be another Jill Ellis thing - where we have to demand something like a 4-3-3 (or 4-5-1) until it happens .

Btw, is Omar Gonzales recovering from injury? Because he's far better than Alvarado.

[MrBug708]

I thought Zardes played pretty solid. He was out of position a few noticeable times but when runs were being made, he stayed back and defended and was working hard. Maybe this game wasn't ideal for him to play, but he looks like the future with Yedlin on that side

[ISiddiqui]

I think it'd be better to try to put Zardes up top with Dempsey. And then Bedoya (who is our best wing player, mind) could play out wide - if we are focused on a 4-4-2, of course.

Though perhaps a 4-1-4-1 could help out with some of that (Zardes and Bedoya out wide - drop Yedlin back to defense - Beckerman as DMid, Bradley and Mix as CM, and Dempsey up top)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Well ODP here is Missouri is a joke. I see what you're saying though. I watch a lot of girls college soccer since I have two daughters who have been playing for years and I can see your point in that respect. I just think if you take the best girls players from the US (and they are not all on the WNT) and play a D1 men's team, it wouldn't be a slaughter... but I could be wrong.

I think if you mixed up the teams there wouldn't be a huge difference (and in fact a couple girls would probably be among the better performers in any one game because technique, IQ and endurance are gender-neutral), but when you put all the girls on one team and guys on the other that speed and aerial advantage in the final third would just be way too much - in fact, it would look a lot like the first 20 minutes of US vs Japan! And unlike most underdogs you couldn't hope to pack it in and counter because the men would destroy them with crosses into the 18.

ISiddiqui - we were saying the same thing last night with Beckerman. As much as I hate the dreads, he's solid, he's fine, and it would make total sense to have him as the Bradley replacement (not just positionally, but as the experienced CM) if Bradley wasn't available for the Gold Cup. But Bradley is there, so we should be trying some younger guys next go him, or different formations to see if we stumble upon a surprisingly great combination. Who are those new guys that should dot the bottom of the roster, and at least get some time against the Haiti's? Alvarado? Yarbrough in the token 3rd goalkeeper spot?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

ISiddiqui - we were saying the same thing last night with Beckerman. As much as I hate the dreads, he's solid, he's fine, and it would make total sense to have him as the Bradley replacement (not just positionally, but as the experienced CM) if Bradley wasn't available for the Gold Cup. But Bradley is there, so we should be trying some younger guys next go him, or different formations to see if we stumble upon a surprisingly great combination. Who are those new guys that should dot the bottom of the roster, and at least get some time against the Haiti's? Alvarado? Yarbrough in the token 3rd goalkeeper spot?

But Beckerman is NOT a Bradley replacement. He's an entirely different animal. Beckerman is your classic DMid. Bradley is a box-to-box. If anyone is a Bradley replace is Mix Diskerud.

And why trying random younger guys in a Gold Cup?! We are trying to win this competition, not try out things. That's what the Friendlies are for (btw, Beckerman didn't play in some of those as we did try younger players - Zardes and Alvarado is a result of the younger guys in friendlies)!! I'm not all that interested in trying out "younger players" in our Copa America, our UEFA Championship.

[MrBug708]

This should have been the game to play our best. Haiti should have been the experimental group. I think Yarborough gets the callup here vs Haiti to cap him from Mexico

[cubboyroy1826]

Watched the mens game last night and man we looked very slow for most of the first half. Way too many bad passes and giveaways. I don't usually watch much of the friendly US matches but Jozy had a couple scoring chances where he looked like he had two left feet.

I like Mizzourah enjoy watching the women's game having two daughters I have coached most of their life one of which has moved on to a local club (now I really get to watch and complain about our lack any plan on set pieces). I will admit in the games where teams I have coached played a younger boys team we were competitive but honestly even at the U14 and U16 age group the difference is there physically. Not huge but it does show. Now the other issue with the girls is their not being as aggressive/physical but I doubt that would be as much of an issue for the USWNT.

[MizzouCowboy]

I really wish I knew more about soccer so I could understand how and why there wasn't eleventy billion yellow and red cards handed out last night. I've only really got into soccer for a year, but now I am hooked. Bad. To my untrained eye it appeared the USMNT got frustrated with the lack of calls and it took them out of their game. I know they have to overcome those types of situations but it appeared to me (again, noob soccer dude) that there were several times that at the least a yellow card should have been shown. The last 5 minutes of the match it appeared both teams expected a foul called but it was just the same old "Play On!". Maybe I'm just too used to watching the EPL, but damn that is ugly football.

All in all, gotta be happy to get out of the match with 3 points, but that performance left a lot to be desired.

[cubboyroy1826]

Yeah there were definitely some weird non-calls that seemed more extreme then some of the yellow card calls. As the announcers mentioned there were a couple times that it appeared the ref was losing control of the game.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by MizzouCowboy

I really wish I knew more about soccer so I could understand how and why there wasn't eleventy billion yellow and red cards handed out last night. I've only really got into soccer for a year, but now I am hooked. Bad. To my untrained eye it appeared the USMNT got frustrated with the lack of calls and it took them out of their game. I know they have to overcome those types of situations but it appeared to me (again, noob soccer dude) that there were several times that at the least a yellow card should have been shown. The last 5 minutes of the match it appeared both teams expected a foul called but it was just the same old "Play On!". Maybe I'm just too used to watching the EPL, but damn that is ugly football.

All in all, gotta be happy to get out of the match with 3 points, but that performance left a lot to be desired.

If you are ever watching the USA play vs. CONCACAF opponents with CONCACAF referees, you can expect the USA to be fouled repeatedly without calls, while borderline calls the other way are given more often than not. I had forgotten what that was like until Yedlin got his free leg literally just kicked without a play on the ball early on with nary a whistle.

[cubboyroy1826]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

If you are ever watching the USA play vs. CONCACAF opponents with CONCACAF referees, you can expect the USA to be fouled repeatedly without calls, while borderline calls the other way are given more often than not. I had forgotten what that was like until Yedlin got his free leg literally just kicked without a play on the ball early on with nary a whistle.

Couldn't have said it better. My wife was watching the game with me and screaming how the hell is that not a foul against Honduras? I told her in these matches for the most part there is a lot of thug ball that does not get called on the US opposition. Didn't stop her from screaming a few more times.

[ISiddiqui]

Hmm, I will say as much as we Americans like to complain the CONCACAF refs are biased against us, I'd argue that if you watched another match between two Central American sides, you'd see just as many non-calls. CONCACAF plays a more physical game than, say, UEFA (but even there, Italians think English refs are horrible because the English are far more physical than Italians - another reason why really good players from Serie A in Italy, or even La Liga in Spain, may end up being a bust in the Premier League)

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Well ODP here is Missouri is a joke. I see what you're saying though. I watch a lot of girls college soccer since I have two daughters who have been playing for years and I can see your point in that respect. I just think if you take the best girls players from the US (and they are not all on the WNT) and play a D1 men's team, it wouldn't be a slaughter... but I could be wrong.

I really hate these types of debates. Not only with womens sports either. Every year we get the "This #1 ranked college team could beat the hell out of this horrible Professional team"

Ummmm. . . no, they wouldn't. They would get slaughtered. When people are talking about football, not only would they get slaughtered, but half the college guys would have broken bones.

The fact is, when we are talking about women's athletics vs mens, college vs pro, or my local single A team vs a major league team, we are talking about different games. Yeah, the rules might be the same, the equipment might be the same and they field may be the same. . . but the way the game is played and the talent level on it isn't.

Why bother comparing the two? Watch what you enjoy and don't worry about the comparisons. Some of the UCONN womens teams have been incredibly enjoyable to watch, I don't need to lessen that beauty by saying they'd be thrashed by HS boys teams. The womens world cup was enjoyable to watch (and I watched more than just the US games) I don't need a comparison to validate that enjoyment.

[Grover]

Angelo Ogbonna coming to West Ham for £8.5M.

The board and Bilic are nicely checking off the needs this summer.