Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

That was a joke, right?

Yep.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I know the number of people that watch classic wrestling is probably pretty low but it's hard to believe we have entered another age of classic wrestling purgatory with the Netflix deal where classic RAWs are simply not available to watch by any legal means currently. Peacock was forced to remove them all and Netflix has chosen not to add them. Remember back when the WWE Network first started and one of the big ideas was that all of this content would be available forever? That was a joke, right?

I loved the WWE Network, and subbed even though I wasn't a fan of the WWE product at the time. Then they screwed over the Canadian market by preventing the app from working in Canada, you had to watch through the website. And then they made it even worse, you had to watch through a 3rd party Sportsnet app which had very little classic content.

I'm currently watching ECW history from 1994, they were still Eastern Championship Wrestling at the time. It is just wild! Removing all of the excessive violence, the fighting "feeling" out of control would be cool to incorporate in today's wrestling. Maybe a bit of Lucha Underground added to it. That's what AEW should try to be today, something completely different than WWE.

[Suicane75]

I've had the idea in my head of a southern gothic style Lucha Underground for years now. Same format, same tv presentation, just with southern horror, mystery and charm. I realize it's an uphill battle to make that any sort of a profitable endeavor but the first few seasons of LU were so good that I'd selfishly like to see an attempt.

[Mota]

Apparently Penta looked good on Raw last night. I think he's great, and his brother is even better. My biggest fear is that they don't speak English, so they'll never get featured. WWE is all about the 20 minute talking segments, so they'll always be secondary characters. Which is basically exactly what they ended up being in AEW, so I can't see how they'd be much happier there.

He does look to be in much better shape than he was in AEW, looks about 20 lbs lighter.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Mota

Apparently Penta looked good on Raw last night. I think he's great, and his brother is even better. My biggest fear is that they don't speak English, so they'll never get featured. WWE is all about the 20 minute talking segments, so they'll always be secondary characters. Which is basically exactly what they ended up being in AEW, so I can't see how they'd be much happier there.

He does look to be in much better shape than he was in AEW, looks about 20 lbs lighter.

He speaks English, but Gunther says hi! Penta will be a IC/US title guy and that’s fine for him. I don’t understand why everyone thinks they have to be WWE World Champion in WWE but are content wrestling on Collision in AEW.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Wish I didn’t have to, but had to explain to my oldest that Hulk Hogan is a piece of shit. I kept telling him they were cheering and he kept saying it sounded like booing. “Why are they booing him?” “Are they cheering or booing? It sounds like boos.” I hate this show.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The beer is actually brewed here in Chicago and I've had it twice. Really funny that they bought into the brand and are actually promoting it so much on TV.

How is it?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Cross-promotion is great stuff, but imagine if WWE and TNA/DDT/Whomever ran a huge show the day before Wrestlemania.

Todd, are you a WWE/TNA insider?

WWE & TNA Wrestling announce multi-year partnership | WWE

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

How is it?

Busch Light tier but twice the price. Notuing wrong with that but you're paying for the can.

[Mota]

I've been watching WWE since the Netflix launch, and I do have some updated comments about them.
First of all, the crowds are massive, and they are loud. That's pretty impressive.
They're doing a good job with Penta.
It's not as cartoony as it was even 6 months ago. Seems like a more sophisticated presentation.
Booker T is the worst announcer in wrestling. He's like Michael Cole was several years ago, too excited about everything, it's extremely fake.
I'm going to try and watch it again. I'm still fast forwarding through a bunch of the crap though.


AEW Feedback:
The crowds are getting eerily quiet. And smaller. Hammersmith audience was really good though.
Wrestling is still miles ahead of WWE. But the bad crowds aren't helping.
Toni Storm is amazing
Tony Khan really needs to think about 2026 or 2027, and try to think of who he wants at the top of the card then. And start building them up now. There are too many ex-WWE guys right now, and the personality that made AEW is largely gone.
I agree with keeping the guys who don't want to be there off TV. CM Punk showed what happens when you have these guys in the dressing room, and you're better off keeping them at home. Let the guys who want to be there shine.

[Mota]

More feedback...
Jacob Fatu is great. His persona is very strong, and he's also a good talker. I think they need to keep him to shorter talking segments, but they're very effective. They really have a gem with him.
Solo Sikoa has not done well as the leader of the opposite side. He was the worst of the bloodline members, so I'm glad they're apparently doing some sort of reshuffle.

In AEW, I've enjoyed the growth of Kyle Fletcher, and Takeshita is a mean dude. I think Takeshita's ceiling is lower in the USA because he doesn't speak English, he may be more successful in NJPW.

[dubb93]

I don’t think anyone saw that Rumble winner coming.

[dubb93]

So some people say it I guess. Jey was 68-1 to win on Friday and then on Saturday when they say the “smart money” comes in he closed to 20-1 but still a massive underdog.

[RainMaker]

So my brother took his kids to Indy for the Rumble. Got to meet a lot of wrestlers and had a great time. But he talked about how incredible Dominik Mysterio was with my niece.

She's really shy and he was apparently really good about coaxing her into talking to him and smiling for the photo. Then they saw him later on outside a restaurant and he somehow remembered her name. She's young and probably had the greatest weekend of her life and that was a big part of it.

Nothing to really add but that guy is a pro and hope nothing but success for him.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So my brother took his kids to Indy for the Rumble. Got to meet a lot of wrestlers and had a great time. But he talked about how incredible Dominik Mysterio was with my niece.

She's really shy and he was apparently really good about coaxing her into talking to him and smiling for the photo. Then they saw him later on outside a restaurant and he somehow remembered her name. She's young and probably had the greatest weekend of her life and that was a big part of it.

Nothing to really add but that guy is a pro and hope nothing but success for him.

He gets alot of undeserved flak from the IWC for having overness > ring skill. I mean it kind of is his fault that he got over before he was ready in the ring, but you can't really hold that against him. It's like the Die Rocky Die era with him and while I can't imagine him ever approaching Rock levels there isn't any reason he can't be a top heel in a few years. WWE needs to get back to pushing the sneaky cheating heel. Dom would be the best at it. Triple H really likes his monster heels like though.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So my brother took his kids to Indy for the Rumble. Got to meet a lot of wrestlers and had a great time. But he talked about how incredible Dominik Mysterio was with my niece.

She's really shy and he was apparently really good about coaxing her into talking to him and smiling for the photo. Then they saw him later on outside a restaurant and he somehow remembered her name. She's young and probably had the greatest weekend of her life and that was a big part of it.

Nothing to really add but that guy is a pro and hope nothing but success for him.

How old is your niece? That is pretty insane that he remembered her name later on that night. He probably met quite a few people.

I have such good memories of going to shows with my son. I started to take him from the age of 5, and the wrestlers went out of their way to talk to him, we were in line to buy some food at an ROH show and Mark Briscoe just walked up to my son and started to talk to him. Then he turned 14 and all of a sudden, they wanted $10 to sign his autograph book, LOL.

At his 10th birthday party, he took a bunch of friends to a Smash Wrestling show and The Bunny took a picture with all of the boys. I thanked her after, and she talked about how her dad used to bring her to all the shows when she was a little girl. A lot of them still remember being fans.

[RainMaker]

She is 11 but has a unique name that he joked with her about. Her name is Evelyn but goes by Evie. He spelled it EV at first and then told her it's so much easier to do it that way and that her Dad was trying to make her life harder.

My brother has taken them to a lot of signings and events over the last few years and apparently some wrestlers are just really cool and make the kids feel welcome while others just sign, take photo, and move on. He is the former. Natalya, Miz, and Rhea were also supposedly incredibly nice although Rhea had the longest line and so people were a little rushed which is understandable.

[Mota]

I'll agree with you on Natalya being nice. I met her at a Walmart manager's show many years ago, and she was very friendly. I'm sure she is great with the kids as well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Friend of mine was on the recent Jericho cruise, said Big Bill (aka Big Cas, aka William Morrissey) was just about the nicest guy ever. Just real down to earth.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Local indy show at a bar maybe 15 minutes from my house tonight but damned if I can justify even getting dressed to go see it.

Billy Gunn, QT Marshall (who owns this promotion, the revived Dusty Rhodes brand Turnbuckle Championship Wrestling), Krule (from MLW) and Satnam Singh are the "names"

Damned if that feels worth leaving the house over, even if I'm bored to fucking death and in dire need of some sort of distraction from life.

MLW is in Atlanta tomorrow night, but it's basically the exact same lineup I just saw a couple months ago with just a few different matchups. Not worth that drive to me. (would have been different if Suzuki was on the show)

[RainMaker]

Did they replace Charlotte Flair or something because this new version looks nothing like what I remember.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Local indy show at a bar maybe 15 minutes from my house tonight but damned if I can justify even getting dressed to go see it.

Billy Gunn, QT Marshall (who owns this promotion, the revived Dusty Rhodes brand Turnbuckle Championship Wrestling), Krule (from MLW) and Satnam Singh are the "names"

Damned if that feels worth leaving the house over, even if I'm bored to fucking death and in dire need of some sort of distraction from life.

MLW is in Atlanta tomorrow night, but it's basically the exact same lineup I just saw a couple months ago with just a few different matchups. Not worth that drive to me. (would have been different if Suzuki was on the show)

Yeah, when it comes to my independent wrestling, I'll always support the groups that bring out the young and hungry guys, over the post-legend guys on the hanger-ons.

Then you can at least watch WWE or AEW 5 years later and see a bunch of guys that you met at the small shows and had some one on one chats with them, before you have to spend hundreds of dollars to meet them.

We have another company in Toronto that always brings in the super old guys with names and they bring in bigger crowds, but I have no interest in seeing 70 year old Honky Tonk Man vs. The Barbarian or something dumb like that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

Yeah, when it comes to my independent wrestling, I'll always support the groups that bring out the young and hungry guys, over the post-legend guys on the hanger-ons.

Then you can at least watch WWE or AEW 5 years later and see a bunch of guys that you met at the small shows and had some one on one chats with them, before you have to spend hundreds of dollars to meet them.

The problem here, I think, is that there wasn't any of the young talent that really stands out enough to make for a good mix. It's the old guys + Nightmare Factory trainees (the school that Cody Rhodes & QT Marshall co-own).

I was lucky, I got to see some the prime indy talent in Georgia at the stage you're talking about. Saw AJ Styles work something like his 3rd ever match, a very young (now) Xavier Woods, a young Abyss. And the mix was youngsters + indy mainstays (David Young, Homicide, etc) with the occasional visit from a bigger name, New Jack was a frequent visitor. It just worked.

[JonInMiddleGA]

KENTA signs with Pro Wrestling NOAH.

Over half the matches in his 25 year career have been with NOAH, seems only right that he returns for an extended period.

NJPW really wasn't using him that much, certainly not doing anything notable. He worked about 60 matches a year for them after returning from his WWE stint but hadn't won a singles match in NJPW since the last night of G1 in August 2023 (only worked 3 singles match for them in the next 16 months)

So, yeah, I'm good with it.

[Mota]

Maybe it gives him a chance to light a spark again. His career has basically been dead for the last few years. I don't have a problem with that, NJPW really needs to focus on creating new stars. It's not time to start pushing guys like Kenta, Chase Owens or Sanada. Move on to the next generation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

Maybe it gives him a chance to light a spark again. His career has basically been dead for the last few years. I don't have a problem with that, NJPW really needs to focus on creating new stars. It's not time to start pushing guys like Kenta, Chase Owens or Sanada. Move on to the next generation.

I'm just happy it worked out that I got to see KENTA in Atlanta a couple months back when he did one of his several MLW appearances. Got to see him and Kojima in person, so it was worth my time & trouble.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

NJPW really needs to focus on creating new stars.

Transitional champ Goto isn't doing much for me, that's for sure. That feels like Japanese fan service, which hey, they sold the building out for it so good for them.

KENTA I was at least personally willing - granted for nostalgia sake - to pay to see. There's a noticeable scarcity of that (for me) on the NJPW payroll right now. I'm pretty close to done with them I'm afraid, too much AEWs bitch stank, only a small handful of people I actively want to see ... and quite a few I really DON'T want to see.

Tsuji and Takeshita are their future, Kidd is at least their present, just not sure how much else is going to come to fruition.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Lucharesu pioneer Gran Hamada passes away at 74. Without him, I'm not sure what modern pro wrestling even looks like, an underappreciated trailblazer.

Just a moment...

[SirFozzie]

I watched a bit of the new WWE training/reality show, "Legends and Future Greats" (or WWE LFG).

Interesting moment when Bubba Ray Dudley (one of the four coaches was introduced, and one of the overconfident trainees (who had been there nine months) tried to shake his hand.

Bubba Ray wanted NOTHING to do with that, telling him "I'll shake your hand when you've earned that right". I could feel Jon's agreement all the way up here in New England. Probably followed by a "In the old days, they would have stretched him, possibly injured him, and kicked him out the door and told him to never come back unless he learned some fucking respect".

[Mota]

Haha I watched the first episode as well. The promo he gave about it was excellent, but then he should have just left it at that, instead he basically advertised that it wasn't a promo and just had a terrible attitude.

I was listening to Joe Hendry on Busted Open Radio a few weeks ago, and he said to succeed in wrestling, you need the strange combination of ultimate confidence in yourself, and ultimate humility. I don't think this dude has both of those traits.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I watched a bit of the new WWE training/reality show, "Legends and Future Greats" (or WWE LFG).

Interesting moment when Bubba Ray Dudley (one of the four coaches was introduced, and one of the overconfident trainees (who had been there nine months) tried to shake his hand.

Bubba Ray wanted NOTHING to do with that, telling him "I'll shake your hand when you've earned that right". I could feel Jon's agreement all the way up here in New England. Probably followed by a "In the old days, they would have stretched him, possibly injured him, and kicked him out the door and told him to never come back unless he learned some fucking respect".

On the other hand, I don't recall who it was but somebody just recently got reported heat for NOT shaking hands with everybody in the back. I get the distinction Bubba is probably making "you don't do that until you're on the roster" ... but depending on the timing of this, I can see where that nuance could have been missed by a trainee. This feels more like Bubba trying to make a TV moment and get himself over.

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, I think here it was him trying to set the role "I'm here to train you. You're nothing until we say you are."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Yeah, I think here it was him trying to set the role "I'm here to train you. You're nothing until we say you are."

"Show me your war face"

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This feels more like Bubba trying to make a TV moment and get himself over.

He's literally done nothing but for decades

[albionmoonlight]

This is probably an unanswerable question because whether someone is "officially" a face or a heel can be hard to pin down.

But Cena's heel turn got me wondering--where does his face run rank among the longest uninterrupted face or heel runs in wrestling?

Was Flair an official heel the whole time--even as people began to root for him? I also lack the sense of history or of other promotions that y'all have that might have some longer examples.

Thoughts?

[Mota]

I'm pretty sure Flair was face from time to time. When Terry Funk piledrove him, that was definitely a face run.

Definitely Cena has been a face for a VERY long time, probably too long. It's certainly a strange time to turn him, as he is doing his farewell tour, but this is a chance to make this final run more than just fanservice.

I quit the WWE LFG show, it was not good. Too much focus on the wrestling, and they're not good wrestlers. I can only watch so many shoulder blocks and hip tosses.

[dubb93]

Doing something with him was the only way to heat him up enough to get to title #17. It isn’t like he’s showing up to TV enough to get himself hot and he hasn’t won a match in years.

[dubb93]

I hope they go full Corporation/NWO and use this as a chance to get some younger guys some exposure too. Of course that would require Rock and Cena to actually show up to TV.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

This is probably an unanswerable question because whether someone is "officially" a face or a heel can be hard to pin down.

But Cena's heel turn got me wondering--where does his face run rank among the longest uninterrupted face or heel runs in wrestling?

Has Rey Mysterio ever been a heel?

(I mean, beyond being a deadbeat dad?)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Has Rey Mysterio ever been a heel?

(I mean, beyond being a deadbeat dad?)

I had to Google to remember ... but yes, "officially" he has: when the Filthy Animals faction formed in WCW they were technically heels (Mysterio has argued that it's as close to heel as he came but that they were "just being themselves").

He got hurt while him & Konnan took the titles from Harlem Heat, so Kidman filled in and they flipped the belts back a week later. He returned with the faction having slid into part of the larger "New Blood" group which was supposed to be face vs The Millionaire's Club ... but that faded when TMC got most of the face pops lol

[Maple Leafs]

Huh. Interesting.

The only other guy I can think of who had an actual heel turn after being a face for almost two decades would have been Bob Backlund back in 1994. But he hadn't been around in forever.