Game of Thrones on HBO

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Spoiler

I'm wondering where that storyline goes because I don't think it has much to do with the overall story unless Theon becomes very important down the line or something.

Spoiler

Well, its quite important to Book 5... also I think Theon likely helps Stannis take Winterfell in Book 6.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by whomario

y
One thing i noticed rewatching the episode yesterday : Tyrion was struck by a guy from the Kings Guard Was it the same guy that was emberassed/scolded by Tyrion in the throne room when he was torturing Sansa on Joffreys command ?

Yes. And he was killed by the mighty Podrick Payne.

[Swaggs]

Thought the finale was alright -- no where in the neighborhood as last week, but pretty good.

Can anyone explain what is going on with John Snow w/o book spoilering things? Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, but I didn't understand what happened there. I assume the older Watchman "sacrificed" himself, but not sure what the game plan is/was there.

[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Thought the finale was alright -- no where in the neighborhood as last week, but pretty good.

Can anyone explain what is going on with John Snow w/o book spoilering things? Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, but I didn't understand what happened there. I assume the older Watchman "sacrificed" himself, but not sure what the game plan is/was there.

I haven't read the books but Halfhand figured that both of them were going to die. He knew there was no way to save himself - from what I gather Halfhand is a bit of a legend and the wildlings have probably been trying to kill him forever. He did the only thing he though was left - save Jon's life by making it look like he was a traitor the Watch. In addition, it may help the Watch get someone on the inside of the wildlings camp.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

I haven't read the books but Halfhand figured that both of them were going to die. He knew there was no way to save himself - from what I gather Halfhand is a bit of a legend and the wildlings have probably been trying to kill him forever. He did the only thing he though was left - save Jon's life by making it look like he was a traitor the Watch. In addition, it may help the Watch get someone on the inside of the wildlings camp.

This is correct.

[DaddyTorgo]

Quality episode. The Halfhand/Jon thing was clumsy. Dragons were awesome! Jaqen was FRIGGING SWEET! Do we really have to wait a year for more?

[Swaggs]

They need to make a Jaqen origins story.

He had an awesome storyline and that scene last night was excellent.

I liked the dragons (the quality of CGI was very good), but the Qarth (sp?) storyline was a hell of a lot of build up for a pretty short/simple ending.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

They need to make a Jaqen origins story.

He had an awesome storyline and that scene last night was excellent.

I liked the dragons (the quality of CGI was very good), but the Qarth (sp?) storyline was a hell of a lot of build up for a pretty short/simple ending.

The dragon CGI was awesome. Amazingly great.

I guess the storyline's ending was just intended to get the dragons to the point where they were established as "a threat." Given, a very small threat, but important development.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

The dragon CGI was awesome. Amazingly great.

I guess the storyline's ending was just intended to get the dragons to the point where they were established as "a threat." Given, a very small threat, but important development.

Yeah. I think it was important to show them developing, but they went to all of that trouble to repeatedly show (over the course of the second half of the season) the sorcerer showing his power and then he just got lit up and died in like 10 seconds. Same with the guy that wore the key that wanted to marry her.

To me, her storyline was the only disappointing one this season. I liked it quite a bit last season, so it was a considerable drop off. Not complaining much, as it was the only one of the 10 or so story lines that I didn't like -- not bad.

[PraetorianX]

I may have been disappointed with the House of the Undying, the lack of certain visions and such, if not for one thing.

KHAL DROGO! Was very pleasantly surprised to see the Khal make an appearance.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PraetorianX

I may have been disappointed with the House of the Undying, the lack of certain visions and such, if not for one thing.

KHAL DROGO! Was very pleasantly surprised to see the Khal make an appearance.

I forgot to mention this - that was awesome. In fact, the way they handled the House of the Undying was pretty solid all-around -- I have faith that we'll get other visions scattered throughout the coming seasons...rather than dumping them all on us at once like the book did. So that's a small change, but I'm okay with it.

Enjoy the show for what the show is - don't always compare it to the books...taht's what I tell myself.

[Tim Tellean]

I haven't read the books yet so my view is limited to the show but stay away from Khaleesi she is badass. The dragons were cool CGI and locking the "King of Carth" and her handmaiden was pretty brazen.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Yeah. I think it was important to show them developing, but they went to all of that trouble to repeatedly show (over the course of the second half of the season) the sorcerer showing his power and then he just got lit up and died in like 10 seconds.

This was our thought as well. He can disappear and reappear wherever he wants but he got killed by a jet of flame that looked like it came from a gas oven? Pretty weak. I'm not sure if that's what happens in the book but it seemed a little off

[spleen1015]

It seemed to me that he didn't take the dragons all that seriously. Granted, as a Warlock, I would think that single jet of flame that initially caught him on fire wouldn't be too much for him to handle, but when all 3 dragons started rapid firing at him, I dunno.

[GrantDawg]

Book 2 was not great for Dani. It was sparse and boring. Book 3 gets a whole lot better. A large amount of whole lot.

[ISiddiqui]

It likely is part of the reason why Book 3 has to be split up - too much stuff going on in the Dany story to relegate her to the background.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

This was our thought as well. He can disappear and reappear wherever he wants but he got killed by a jet of flame that looked like it came from a gas oven? Pretty weak. I'm not sure if that's what happens in the book but it seemed a little off

To dissect that scene a little....all the extra images of him are illusions. Illusions that can interact with their environment, but still just very powerful illusions. When the dragons look at him in front of her, that told Dani that he was not another illusion, but the actual sorcerer. That is why she commanded attack at that time. And nothing survives dragon breath.

(btw, that is not at all how the book goes. That is just my guess/insight on how that all went down)

[cschex]

Count me among the book fans that thinks (hopes) we'll get some of the stuff from the House of the Undying scattered later in Dany's storyline, because I think there are a couple of pretty important things in there. Overall though, I didn't mind the adaption in the show, the producers are moving things forward and back, not adapting linearly book-by-book.

The one plotline that did not work for me in the second half of the season was Jon/Qhorin/wildlings. I thought it was fairly clumsy, but it did get Jon to the wildling camp so it served its purpose, I suppose.

[I. J. Reilly]

So why was Winterfell burned? I clearly missed something; weren't the occupiers given free passage as soon as they turned over Theon?

[ISiddiqui]

Well, do you want book spoilers?

[I. J. Reilly]

Oh, sorry. I don't always pay full attention to the show so I thought I must have just missed something. Didn't realize it was a cliffhanger type thing.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Book 2 was not great for Dani. It was sparse and boring. Book 3 gets a whole lot better. A large amount of whole lot.

This. I've actually thought that her storyline as a whole has probably benefited the most from the transition to the TV from the books, and will I think be the one that continues to benefit the most moving forward. The TV can cut out all of the junk and just give us the good stuff.

[Landshark44]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, do you want book spoilers?

I read the books, but forget why Winterfell was burned. I would mind an expanation in spoiler tags if someone was ambitious...

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Landshark44

I read the books, but forget why Winterfell was burned. I would mind an expanation in spoiler tags if someone was ambitious...

Spoiler

IIRC, Ramsay Snow really doesn't want to rule in Winterfell. He likes the Dreadfort. Roose makes him go back to Winterfell in Dance with Dragons. Also, I believe that he wants to make it seem as if the Iron Islanders were the ones who burned Winterfell

[Landshark44]

ok, got it.. thanks

[Julio Riddols]

I was a big fan of the horse shitting.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I was a big fan of the horse shitting.

Yup, that was great. I have to say that the biggest and best difference for me re: the series vs the books is the character of Tywin. It's a combination of the actor they hired a well as the script, as they've really portrayed him to the audience in a way that is matched up with the kind of reputation that is given him by others in the book.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yup, that was great. I have to say that the biggest and best difference for me re: the series vs the books is the character of Tywin. It's a combination of the actor they hired a well as the script, as they've really portrayed him to the audience in a way that is matched up with the kind of reputation that is given him by others in the book.

I agree. They've done an excellent job creating much more depth and characterization to Tywin, a large par of it due to Charles Dance, in the show.

I feel that there are a few characters who are actually better on the show than they were in the books. Cersei is one. She is much more nuanced and somewhat sympathetic on the show. I thought Lena Heady was probably the most improved actor on the show between years one and two.

I like what they've done with Margery Tyrell. I like Brienne better. Yoren, a cool character in the book, was also better on screen. Bronn is another. While I was very iffy on Shae to begin, she really came on strong as well in the second of this season and is a more interesting character on the show.

They've really done an amazing job with casting. In fact, they've done an amazing job overall. I can't wait until next year!

[Coffee Warlord]

It's a sad day when a man must go.

Really wish a man had more screen time.

[ISiddiqui]

re: characters in books vs. show - I think it comes down to WHO had the POV chapters. We were looking at most people (or hearing about them) from the POV of other characters in the books. So Tywin was never seen from behind his eyes.

The show can't do that and has to flesh out the character far more than the books ever did.

Of course that also leads to book people being slightly frustrated that some POV characters aren't given greater depth in the show (ie, Jon Snow for one).

[Julio Riddols]

They ought to write in a storyline for Jaqen just so he can stay on the show.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

re: characters in books vs. show - I think it comes down to WHO had the POV chapters. We were looking at most people (or hearing about them) from the POV of other characters in the books. So Tywin was never seen from behind his eyes.

The show can't do that and has to flesh out the character far more than the books ever did.

Of course that also leads to book people being slightly frustrated that some POV characters aren't given greater depth in the show (ie, Jon Snow for one).

I think that has something to do with it. We get the advantage of seeing scenes between characters who had no POV chapter and therefore can see them in a different light.

That said, I think between some tweaks in the writing and the casting of certain characters has just been so spot on that they are better. I think Yoren is a prime example of that.

Also, there are certain POV characters - e.g., Arya, Ned, Tyrion, Theon - who are really every bit as good and compelling on the show as they are in the books. We're never going to get the same amount due to the necessary time constraints/trimmings, but what we have been given is pretty much perfect.

The Jon Snow/Qhorin Halfhand stuff was really the only change from the book to the show this season that rubbed me the wrong way. I understand why they did it, but it really cut into the Halfhand as a character in a negative way in my opinion.

Spoiler

Cersei is a counter-example to your point. Getting her POV in book four just makes her all the crazier and less sympathetic. I think she's an interesting character and I enjoy her POV chapters a lot - even if I feel a bit crazy for a while after reading them - she is a bit more nuanced on the show.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

They ought to write in a storyline for Jaqen just so he can stay on the show.

Spoiler

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Jaqen was written into the House of Black and White when Arya goes there.

[ISiddiqui]

On your Spoiler, HB:

Spoiler

Remember what state of mind Cersei is in at that point. Her son has gotten poisoned and died and she strongly suspects her imp brother. Her Lord Father, who basically kept the Starks at bay has been killed. Her brother/lover Jaime has been gone for just about forever and then gets his arm cut off.

She's basically alone at the start of Book 4, and feels she is getting outmanuvered by the Tyrells. Furthermore she gets abandoned by Jamie when she really needs him - though that's the end of the book.

I have a feeling that Cersei will be super crazy in the show by Season... what will it be, 5?

[spleen1015]

Spoiler

I really hope Cersei dies an epic death. I hate the character so much, but I like the shit she pulls and her story is a good one.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Spoiler

I really hope Cersei dies an epic death. I hate the character so much, but I like the shit she pulls and her story is a good one.

Spoiler

As for now, it appears she is benefiting from Varys wanting her to remain Queen Regent because she's horrible at the job and is driving the people into the hands of Aegon Targaryen through Cersei's mismanagement. Can't have someone competant like Kevan leading the realm.

So I assume he'll keep things running to assure Cersei stays on the throne until Aegon's forces are ready to take King's Landing

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Spoiler

As for now, it appears she is benefiting from Varys wanting her to remain Queen Regent because she's horrible at the job and is driving the people into the hands of Aegon Targaryen through Cersei's mismanagement. Can't have someone competant like Kevan leading the realm.

So I assume he'll keep things running to assure Cersei stays on the throne until Aegon's forces are ready to take King's Landing

Spoiler

I really hope that never happens - Aegon taking King's Landing. His introduction was one of the things that annoyed me most about the last book. It just seemed so late to introduce this alleged "major player" into the mix. I am kind of hoping he just goes the way of poor Quentyn Martell and just dies as a result of his stupidity.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Spoiler

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Jaqen was written into the House of Black and White when Arya goes there.

Spoiler

There is some strong speculation that Jaqen is currently at the Citadle in Old Town in the form of Pate, the character who was killed in the prologue chapter of Feast for Crows.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Spoiler

I really hope that never happens - Aegon taking King's Landing. His introduction was one of the things that annoyed me most about the last book. It just seemed so late to introduce this alleged "major player" into the mix. I am kind of hoping he just goes the way of poor Quentyn Martell and just dies as a result of his stupidity.

Spoiler

Well there is speculation he's really Ilyrio's son who they've pretended to make Aegon (Ilyrio had boy clothes in his dressers when Tyrion was staying there). And in a 7 book series with major characters getting killed off left and right, book 5 isn't too late to introduce a major player, esp if he links up with someone else's story - or at the very least, weakens up King's Landing to make it easier for Dany or Dany & Victarion to take

.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Spoiler

Well there is speculation he's really Ilyrio's son who they've pretended to make Aegon (Ilyrio had boy clothes in his dressers when Tyrion was staying there). And in a 7 book series with major characters getting killed off left and right, book 5 isn't too late to introduce a major player, esp if he links up with someone else's story - or at the very least, weakens up King's Landing to make it easier for Dany or Dany & Victarion to take

.

Spoiler

I am going to wait and give Martin the benefit of the doubt on this. Perhaps it will work out and be very cool and interesting. And while I liked the Jon Connington character well enough, I have no interest in Aegon, be he the genuine article or Ilyrio's son (if Ilyrio was hiding Aegon at this place at some point, like he did Dany and Viserys, perhaps those were Aegon's clothes, so I am not sure if the fact that Ilyrio had boy's clothes in his place necessarily mean they were his son's clothes. Heck, they could be old clothes from Viserys.). That said, I still think it's a bit late to be adding a "major player" to the game, regardless of the number of characters killed. Still plenty of pieces out there.

[DaddyTorgo]

This is veering into book-discussion...maybe we should continue it over there?

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

This is veering into book-discussion...maybe we should continue it over there?

I've bailed out of this thread a couple of times fearing we were losing that distinction. I know it's hard, so I'll probably steer clear of this one to be safe. Can't wait for Season 3!

[GrantDawg]

I don't know about the others (probably be soon because they are near the time they start filming), but Shireen is cast:

'Game of Thrones' casts 'Matilda' Kerry Ingram as Shireen Baratheon - Game of Thrones News - TV - Digital Spy

[sabotai]

Finally got around to watching the last episode. Most of it was good, but I really hated the way they handled the Joffery-Sansa-Margery thing. I think it takes away a lot from the Tyrells.

Book spoilers below

Spoiler

And WTF with Littlefinger!? Do the writers simply not know how to write for this character? Having Littlefinger tell Sansa (creepily) that he's going to get her out of the city? How could they make Littlefinger be so fucking stupid? Sansa has shown to not be very smart and he's going to trust her with his idea to free her? An emotionally unstable teenage girl? Who could blab it to the wrong person? WTF? I just don't get how they screw up Littlefinger so much, but get Varys and Tyrion right. Or at least, have them play the game well while Littlefinger screws it up so much. Yeah, we get it. He's in love with Catelyn. It causes him to get emotional. You don't need to hit us over the head with that fact every chance you get.

Not having Littlefinger be revealed as the one that masterminds her escape at the very end completely ruins that storyline IMO. The writers have done a good job overall, but they don't seem to be fans of mystery at all. They take out the behind the scenes political maneuvering by the Tyrells and just bluntly, in open court, say "Sure, Joffery marries Margery now after her brother requests it in front of everyone" (which makes me think WTF is even the reason for having The Queen of Thorns in the show now, although I know I've forgotten a lot), and they take away all mystery as to who helps Sansa escapes. One of the things that makes the books so good is wondering just who is pulling which string. The TV show just bluntly tells you who is up to what.

To the people that have read the books, obviously, there's no suspense to some of these plot lines. Maybe the writers are thinking too much of the readers of the books. "The people who read the books know this already, so why not just not even try to hide it." It's actually getting annoying.

Aside from that annoyance, I am still enjoying the show. Just hope it doesn't get worse from here on out.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Finally got around to watching the last episode. Most of it was good, but I really hated the way they handled the Joffery-Sansa-Margery thing. I think it takes away a lot from the Tyrells.

Book spoilers below

Spoiler

And WTF with Littlefinger!? Do the writers simply not know how to write for this character? Having Littlefinger tell Sansa (creepily) that he's going to get her out of the city? How could they make Littlefinger be so fucking stupid? Sansa has shown to not be very smart and he's going to trust her with his idea to free her? An emotionally unstable teenage girl? Who could blab it to the wrong person? WTF? I just don't get how they screw up Littlefinger so much, but get Varys and Tyrion right. Or at least, have them play the game well while Littlefinger screws it up so much. Yeah, we get it. He's in love with Catelyn. It causes him to get emotional. You don't need to hit us over the head with that fact every chance you get.

Not having Littlefinger be revealed as the one that masterminds her escape at the very end completely ruins that storyline IMO. The writers have done a good job overall, but they don't seem to be fans of mystery at all. They take out the behind the scenes political maneuvering by the Tyrells and just bluntly, in open court, say "Sure, Joffery marries Margery now after her brother requests it in front of everyone" (which makes me think WTF is even the reason for having The Queen of Thorns in the show now, although I know I've forgotten a lot), and they take away all mystery as to who helps Sansa escapes. One of the things that makes the books so good is wondering just who is pulling which string. The TV show just bluntly tells you who is up to what.

To the people that have read the books, obviously, there's no suspense to some of these plot lines. Maybe the writers are thinking too much of the readers of the books. "The people who read the books know this already, so why not just not even try to hide it." It's actually getting annoying.

Aside from that annoyance, I am still enjoying the show. Just hope it doesn't get worse from here on out.

That true, with regard to the books (non spoilers): the books had a lot of mystery as who was planning what and part of the fun was a kind of political intrigue / detective story. Do watchers of the show who haven't read the books have a similar view on it, or has that lessened considerably from Season 1 (which is the only one I've seen to date).

[Grover]

I get the feeling that Sansa is being intelligent, rather than stupid about people offering help. She's being smart by refusing, saying she belongs there because she knows in her mind she can't trust anybody at all. She worries that if she does say she wants to get out, Joffrey or Ceresi will find out and have her killed. Sure, Littlefinger might be offering her a way out, but what's one good reason Sansa should ever trust him?

[panerd]

So just gone done with a 2-3 week marathon session of the first two seasons of Game of Thrones. (Got to love being a teacher and having the summer off) Avoided this thread until then just in case there were some spoilers but this is definitely up there with my favorite HBO series of all time. I really hate waiting for a new season especially with HBO who doesn't always stick with just a year off. How easily could I pick up the third book and move right along? My biggest fear is that I know who the characters are by sight but outside of the Starks and Lannisters I don't know a lot of their names. (i.e. Hot dragon chick with big tits, funny/badass sidekick to midget, badass with burned face, Carcetti with a moustache...)

My opinion of the show so far does seem a little different than people in this thread who have read the book. I think the dragon chick is one of the better storylines of the show, I also enjoy Tyrion much like everyone else, hate King Jeofrey but love his scenes and think the actor is fantastic at making me hate him, and really am interested in what is going to happen with the little girl Stark and the blacksmith dude. About the only scenes that really bore me (and I enjoy them also but they aren't as fun as the rest) are the Knight's watch and the Hot Redhead Goddess. The White Walkers started out the first episode of the first season real badass but the multiple episodes of Jon Snow and redhead chick in the mountains really dragged on. The end with the walking dead army was interesting but I have to admit I was kind of hoping for a King's Landing cliffhanger and thought those white walkers were way more badass and scary than horseback grandpa with blue eyes.

For fans of the book feel free to mock/laugh at my descriptions or lack of understanding of major plot points.

[DaddyTorgo]

You could probably pick up the third book and go at it fairly easily. If there's people (like the ones above) that you don't know their names, you could make a list here and we could name them for you.

Then again - there's a lot of the backstory that you would miss in the first two books (because it was cut out of the HBO series so far) that might lead to confusion...but it's stuff that you could probably fill in by reading wiki's or asking here and such.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by panerd

I really hate waiting for a new season especially with HBO who doesn't always stick with just a year off. How easily could I pick up the third book and move right along? My biggest fear is that I know who the characters are by sight but outside of the Starks and Lannisters I don't know a lot of their names. (i.e. Hot dragon chick with big tits, funny/badass sidekick to midget, badass with burned face, Carcetti with a moustache...)

It would not be easy at all. You'll pretty much have to read books 1-2.

Too much has been changed or simplified in the TV show for you to really understand what's going on from book 3 on. Some of the story lines have been completely changed. Some characters in the show are still alive but dead in the books, some are dead in the show but still alive in the books. And it's a "cast of thousands", if you don't know their names, then you'll get lost quickly.

The alternative to that, if you really don't want to read the books, is to read the chapter summaries on the Tower Of The Hand wiki. Be careful though, it's easy to fall into the ocean of spoilers there. I'd suggest just reading the books. They are worth it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by sabotai

It would not be easy at all. You'll pretty much have to read books 1-2.

Too much has been changed or simplified in the TV show for you to really understand what's going on from book 3 on. Some of the story lines have been completely changed. Some characters in the show are still alive but dead in the books, some are dead in the show but still alive in the books. And it's a "cast of thousands", if you don't know their names, then you'll get lost quickly.

The alternative to that, if you really don't want to read the books, is to read the chapter summaries on the Tower Of The Hand wiki. Be careful though, it's easy to fall into the ocean of spoilers there. I'd suggest just reading the books. They are worth it.

I suppose you're right. There is a lot that has been changed + simplifid...he would be missing out on a lot. Was just trying to be optomistic.