Game of Thrones on HBO

[MrBug708]

I might be the only one who felt like the Lady Mormont piece was over the top. Her part last year was great bit now it just seems like they are doubling down on a 12 year old angry

[JPhillips]

For all of the unpredictability that made the books and series great, things look like they are going to play out in a very traditional manner.

Humanity is going to fail to prepare adequately while squabbling amongst themselves. The Night King is going to win some battles and appear invincible. Humanity will somehow come together. At the moment when all seems lost, humanity will win a great triumph. The world will be saved, but beaten badly. All of humanity will agree to rebuild a better world than the one that led to this catastrophe.

I hope it isn't this simple(basically the plot to Independence Day) but it sure looks like this is where it's headed.

[Arles]

I enjoyed the first episode. Pop star not withstanding, I thought the scene in the woods was an interesting one for Arya. Those solders had the Lannister banner, so I thought the point was to humanize this "vengeance quest". These were the type of people she was looking to wipe out and they seemed like decent humans.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I looked him up after I saw a bunch of people whining about that.

And I still have no idea who he is.

You've missed absolutely nothing.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You've missed absolutely nothing.

You know, unless you like his style of music, in which case, he's quite good at it and you might feel you missed out and would be happy to have discovered him!

Music is pretty subjective after all :P

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Radii

You know, unless you like his style of music

I can manage at least a vague sympathy for those folks.

Similar to what I feel for people who consider tofu to be food.

[chinaski]

Dont understand my dumb hipster friends on Facebook complaining about Sheeran, but never said a word about Coldplay? They have bands all the time, who cares? The scene last night was great, regardless of him being in it for a minute.

[Groundhog]

I didn't even know Coldplay were in an episode, and I've seen them live a bunch of a times. Sheeran's breaking the fourth wall "It's new" line was cheesy beyond belief... I expected the cover image of his latest album to pop up on the bottom of the screen with "New album out now!" under it...

[Drake]

As someone who has never heard of Sheeran (before today), I didn't find anything off in that scene. The idea that a random soldier missing home has a decent voice and sings at camp to amuse his mates didn't seem odd.

In essence, because I didn't know this was a "special" scene for a special fan, I wasn't de-immersed by it...which suggests to me that the director did a pretty damned good job with it.

But, if the interwebs are any guide, only me and like six other people in the world had the benefit of not knowing this dude and not knowing about his cameo, so YMMV.

[General Mike]

As someone who likes Sheeran's music, it was just a filler scene, nothing more, nothing less.

[Drake]

Looking at his Wikipedia page, the fact that I haven't heard of him is probably a good indicator of how old I've gotten.

Jesus. A vast gulf of "get off my lawn" separates knowing you're out of touch and *knowing* you're out of touch.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Arles

I enjoyed the first episode. Pop star not withstanding, I thought the scene in the woods was an interesting one for Arya. Those solders had the Lannister banner, so I thought the point was to humanize this "vengeance quest". These were the type of people she was looking to wipe out and they seemed like decent humans.

This is the point; the fact that it was Sheeran (wouldn't have had any idea except my girlfriend pointed it out) was jarring to folks who know him, and probably took away from this possibly very important moment for Arya. Not everyone in Westeros is an asshole trying to steal from, kill, and rape everyone that they come across.

I'll echo the thoughts further up the thread that if this just turns into a 'bad guy beats up the people who squabbled and couldn't unify, then they unify and beat the bad guy' thing, I'm going to be disappointed. My best friend is of the opinion that if any single one of the main characters is still alive at the end, he's going to be upset. He gives the concession that maybe if The Hound has one leg left and crawls his way up to it with nearly mortal wounds at the end, that will suffice.

I am coming more and more around to his line of thinking.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

For all of the unpredictability that made the books and series great, things look like they are going to play out in a very traditional manner.

Humanity is going to fail to prepare adequately while squabbling amongst themselves. The Night King is going to win some battles and appear invincible. Humanity will somehow come together. At the moment when all seems lost, humanity will win a great triumph. The world will be saved, but beaten badly. All of humanity will agree to rebuild a better world than the one that led to this catastrophe.

I hope it isn't this simple(basically the plot to Independence Day) but it sure looks like this is where it's headed.

Yeah, it does seem to be lining up to what we expect. Wondering if there is one final twist they throw in though.

The episode seemed to show that the Lannister's were on their last legs. Surrounded by enemies with dwindling resources. But Cersei is ruthless and I'm wondering if she has one last trick up her sleeve. Especially if Euron's gift turns out to be something special (a horn perhaps?).

[Groundhog]

Agree that it seems predictable - at least, things have been moving towards the ending that has seemed obvious since Rob died. Sansa's arc seems like the one question mark. I made a comment about her starting to a lot like Cersei about 30 seconds before she dropped the "I learnt a lot from her" line.

I'm hoping there is at least one massive twist, and more of a Pyrrhic victory than a "And they all lived happily ever after" finish.

[RainMaker]

If I remember correctly, Martin hates the good vs evil endings. I think it's the one thing he criticized Tolkien for. So perhaps that's not the way this will go.

Then again maybe Martin has his own ending for the books and will just let HBO write their own for the show that will be the classic ending. Does seem like Martin likes his character in shades of gray while the HBO writers like them more black and white.

[Radii]

I love Ed Sheeran, I had forgotten that there was going to be a cameo from him but once I saw him I remembered it had been reported, then I thought "oh that's neat" and got back to the show. The End.

I'm loving the conversation here where more than half of us don't even know who he is.


The story does seem like its potentially heading for a straightforward ending as you guys have mentioned. That could be ok if the story is told well enough on the way there, but I expect some deviations and surprises personally.

[law90026]

There's going to be enough room for some form of Pyrrhic victory when you have an overly-moral protagonist like Jon Snow.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Radii

I love Ed Sheeran, I had forgotten that there was going to be a cameo from him but once I saw him I remembered it had been reported, then I thought "oh that's neat" and got back to the show. The End.

I'm loving the conversation here where more than half of us don't even know who he is.


The story does seem like its potentially heading for a straightforward ending as you guys have mentioned. That could be ok if the story is told well enough on the way there, but I expect some deviations and surprises personally.

I'm with you on Sheeran. The scene was more about humanizing life for Arya. I thought it was a good scene. In fact, there was a number of really good scenes, really like the Hound with Thoros and Beric.

I see the ending as a big pile of shit. There won't be a character who will be clean and pure. Martin loves his shades of grey, in his characters and how they relate to one another and their motivations.

It'll be a bittersweet ending, something where you'll agree that it's for the best, but I think there will be a point where you find yourself knowing that it can't be perfect, but it's the best that they can hope for. For one, it can't be as straightforward as it seems. I really hope it's not or it'll be a total letdown for the entire series.

[Drake]

I figure:

Jon ends up allied with/married to Danaerys (Ice & Fire, who woulda guessed...plus, they're half-siblings, right? Isn't that a Targaeryan thing anyway?).

Sansa ends up killing Littlefinger.

Jamie kills Cercei, but probably also gets poisoned or some shit and dies.

Tyrion and Varis live happily ever after buying an RV and doing a popular travel vlog channel on YouTube.

Bronn gets completely forgotten in the storyline and ends up drinking in a brothel somewhere.

Arya and the Hound reunite. She probably takes over Riverrun, with the Hound as her castellan.

Lannisters get wrecked. Night King gets stalemated, but there's hope that humanity survives the long winter.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I'll echo the thoughts further up the thread that if this just turns into a 'bad guy beats up the people who squabbled and couldn't unify, then they unify and beat the bad guy' thing, I'm going to be disappointed. My best friend is of the opinion that if any single one of the main characters is still alive at the end, he's going to be upset. He gives the concession that maybe if The Hound has one leg left and crawls his way up to it with nearly mortal wounds at the end, that will suffice.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If I remember correctly, Martin hates the good vs evil endings. I think it's the one thing he criticized Tolkien for. So perhaps that's not the way this will go.

Then again maybe Martin has his own ending for the books and will just let HBO write their own for the show that will be the classic ending. Does seem like Martin likes his character in shades of gray while the HBO writers like them more black and white.

Agreed with both. Martin, I believe, has said his ending a 'bittersweet' one. So likely the humans win (though the White Walkers winning would be fantastic, oh well), a lot of main characters die. I can easily see a sort of ending where Dany and Jon die in defeating the enemy, but their 'ally' in the battle against the White Walkers, Cersei ends up surviving and sitting on the Iron Throne. THAT would be a cliche defying ending.

[Arles]

I think it will be a good result, but a bad process. By that I mean that I think some faction of Dany/Jon will end up standing at the end, but a lot of people we care about (and some we hate) will have a bad ending. I do believe that Martin would have tried to make a slugfest, Vietnam-esque style conclusion. But, this show is now being told by the screenwriters. And while I do think they want to keep the Martin theme going, they know that ending with the White Walkers ruling the world or Cercei as the last one standing wouldn't be the right payoff to most viewers.

I'm excited to see the "bad process" unfold though and expect Jon to pay a price for his leniency to the two houses that betrayed him - as well as Cercei doing a massive last ditch saboteur move on the Jon/Dany forces as the White Walkers approach.

[booradley]

Why was Dragonstone COMPLETELY abandoned when Dany arrived? I know Stannis took a host north, but why would all the small folk leave too? And just as the Starks said "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell@, wouldn't Stannis want to leave someone behind to watch after his principal seat? It just seems stupid and over-the-top unrealistic.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by booradley

Why was Dragonstone COMPLETELY abandoned when Dany arrived? I know Stannis took a host north, but why would all the small folk leave too? And just as the Starks said "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell@, wouldn't Stannis want to leave someone behind to watch after his principal seat? It just seems stupid and over-the-top unrealistic.

Religious zealots do crazy things.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by booradley

Why was Dragonstone COMPLETELY abandoned when Dany arrived? I know Stannis took a host north, but why would all the small folk leave too? And just as the Starks said "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell@, wouldn't Stannis want to leave someone behind to watch after his principal seat? It just seems stupid and over-the-top unrealistic.

I said the same thing to my girlfriend. Makes no sense a kingdom would be abandoned like that. You know the Boltons or Freys or someone would be like "mine now". The GF said its probably because people are afraid of the place after what happened there.

[PackerFanatic]

Good answer to the question about Dragonstone being empty here: https://theringer.com/game-of-throne...1-66ca3670079c Still a little odd, but makes some sense at least.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

Good answer to the question about Dragonstone being empty here: https://theringer.com/game-of-throne...1-66ca3670079c Still a little odd, but makes some sense at least.

Two things as far as dragonstone goes. 1) Stannis had really started to blur the line between ruler and cult leader. Everyone, nearly to a man, following his lead in the name of the Lord of Light is somewhat plausible. 2) As the article states, anyone left behind when word of Stannis' death and his army being decimated reached dragonstone would have smart to bail immediately.

[booradley]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Two things as far as dragonstone goes. 1) Stannis had really started to blur the line between ruler and cult leader. Everyone, nearly to a man, following his lead in the name of the Lord of Light is somewhat plausible. 2) As the article states, anyone left behind when word of Stannis' death and his army being decimated reached dragonstone would have smart to bail immediately.

I just don't agree. People cling to their homes in hope. Opportunists seize a chance. I know it's just a TV show, but the books did such a marvelous job of making its characters seem ... human. Bits like this just make HBO look like it's taking the easy way out, and it rankles me. Pffffttt.

I'll move on ...

[Vince, Pt. II]

Dragonstone isn't a kingdom. It's a rock. That depends upon trade to survive. Hence Davos Seaworth, smuggler, becoming a knight and losing his fingertips by breaking the blockade/siege and saving the island. If there is no money there and no rulers there, there is no trade going in, and people can't survive there.

[molson]

Edit: Vince Pt. II beat me a bit with the first point below, but...

And Dragonstone was really more of a military installation than a center of local government and the surrounding areas like Winterfell was. It's an island, it didn't raise food and livestock. It would be tricky to live there without the infrastructure of a military. Maybe somebody's there and we haven't seen them yet, but it's unlikely any sizeable group of people would be living there on their own.

It's a little trickier to me why the Lannisters didn't want to hold it down, since it was apparently very easy to hold from defenders without a lot of soldiers, and it was the obvious place for any invasion by sea to start. But, I'm content with the Lannisters just being in disarray at this point and not thinking they have the ships or soldiers to spare.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yeah, my question is how much they are playing with timelines. Dragonstone is hugely vital to access for the Blackwater Bay. With Euron's fleet around SOMEWHERE, there isn't much room for them AND Khaleesi to be sailing around without bumping into one another.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by molson

It's a little trickier to me why the Lannisters didn't want to hold it down, since it was apparently very easy to hold from defenders without a lot of soldiers

The path from the gate to the castle screamed Thermopylae to me.

[MrBug708]

Where is dragonbinder in all of this?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Where is dragonbinder in all of this?

Still holding out hope that it's too come and why he's as confident as he is.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by molson

It's a little trickier to me why the Lannisters didn't want to hold it down, since it was apparently very easy to hold from defenders without a lot of soldiers, and it was the obvious place for any invasion by sea to start. But, I'm content with the Lannisters just being in disarray at this point and not thinking they have the ships or soldiers to spare.

My thinking was that Stannis had some "loyalists" still caretaking. But, when they saw the armada approaching, they hightailed it out. I don't see a reason to stay when you see a thousand ships and 3 dragons approaching (unless you have a deathwish).

As to the Lannisters, I'm guessing they lack some manpower after the city went up in flames. They still have some traveling armies (ie, the one Arya saw), but I see them trying to centralize their forces in prep for the Jon/Dany attack. In theory, they could have had a small garrison there who also peaced out when the ships approached. Whether it was a Stannis or Lannister garrison, I think it's reasonable to assume they vacated at the site of the incoming Dany dragons/army.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Drake

I figure:

Jon ends up allied with/married to Danaerys (Ice & Fire, who woulda guessed...plus, they're half-siblings, right? Isn't that a Targaeryan thing anyway?).

I think Danny is Jon's aunt.

My theory
1. Danny and Jon fall in love.
2. Danny and Jon and others (their son?) are surrounded by white walkers.
3. Danny goes "Mad King" and decides to burn them all to save them from becoming white walkers.
4. Jon is forced to kill her, stab her through the heart, to save everyone.
5. The turns his sword into Lightbringer and allows him to save the day/world.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Surtt

I think Danny is Jon's aunt

Yes. She is sister to Rhaegar who is Jon's father.

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Still holding out hope that it's too come and why he's as confident as he is.

I get that this would be cool, but I really hope it's not one of these:
Danny is kicking the lannisters butt
New Greyjoy bad guy shows up with the dragon controlling horn
Dragons turn on Danny and destroy her army
And we're left with the lannisters and new greyjoy in charge

I guess I'm too much of a sap that I hope that good kinda wins out in the end. If I want good to lose or tread water, I have the real world for that.

[Arles]

Interesting theory I just read. It seems like this episode foreshadowed the idea that ingesting dragon glass can cure (or atleast stop the spreading of) Greyscale. In Sam's book, one of the screenshots alluded to this. Plus, we have the example of the one person who stopped the process of Greyscale (Stannis' daughter Shereen) was sitting on a mountain of dragon glass. Pretty interesting observation that the interwebs made.

Perhaps Jorah ends up having his GreyScale stopped in this manner and heads back to the fight.

[Neon_Chaos]

My guess is that Euron will probably invade either The Reach or Dorne with the Iron Fleet for Cersei. But that's just me.

[Chief Rum]

I'm actually fairly familiar with Sheeran and I didn't notice. I thought it was a good scene.

[stevew]

Don't understand people throwing shade ad Sheeran. He's a more than passable actor and he has charisma. Plus he can sing.

I see a bad fate headed Arya's way. No chance she kills Cercei. Cercei likely survives most all of this.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by stevew

Don't understand people throwing shade ad Sheeran. He's a more than passable actor and he has charisma. Plus he can sing.

I see a bad fate headed Arya's way. No chance she kills Cercei. Cercei likely survives most all of this.

Everything in her prophecy has come true so far so it's very likely she's going to die. Just not by Arya's hands.

[stevew]

So Cercei killed by Jaime(actually Arya in disguise) maybe?

[Vince, Pt. II]

Wasn't the prophecy for the valonqar (sp?) To kill her? Which if I remember correctly means "little brother?" Did she come out before Jaime? Think it would be a tremendous moment if Jaime's the one to kill her.

[Chief Rum]

Queenslayer

[Julio Riddols]

Jaime mercy kills her before she faces a much nastier fate at someone else's hands, then he dies in a blaze of glory.

[bhlloy]

I think Jamie chooses Tyrion over Cersei towards the end, saving everyone still standing from the White Walkers.

Just feels like they've been building him up as the anti-hero who does the right thing in the end and foreshadowing him as the reasonable one contrasting against her who will do anything for power for a very long time in the TV series.

[Radii]

Initial reaction: Meh. Just like the books, the show has failed to make me actually care a single bit about anything happening with anyone at the iron islands, or with Dorne. Nothing unexpected anywhere else at all. I liked last week's piece moving. This week's became a bit much, and the action involved a ton of characters who my combined interest in is zero.

Hooray Nymeria. Too bad I saw the previews so I knew it was coming Dany discussing stuff with Olenna and Tyrion and the dornish whatever her name is was worthwhile and interesting.

[bronconick]

Episode 2 gets 10/10 because at least 2/3 of the sand snakes are dead.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Episode 2 gets 10/10 because at least 2/3 of the sand snakes are dead.

Now that is a good point that I failed to make, another +1 for this episode.