OT - Who's watching The Wire? - Page 2

spleen1015 · 12-15-2004, 08:09 AM

I finally got around to watching Sunday's episode last night.

I thought Avon was going to end up dead. I thought Stringer was too strong of a character to kill off at this point. He's been McNulty's main target the whole series.

I'm also wondering if Stringer is really dead. They led you to believe that, but never showed it for sure.

Thank the maker for HBO On-Demand. I missed seasons 1 and 2 when they were on originally. I watched the first episode out of boredom and have loved every minute of the show since.

Peregrine · 12-15-2004, 04:52 PM

I think Stringer is really dead. For one thing, The Wire doesn't tend to go for that hokey "we thought the guy was dead, but he came back!" gimmick that many shows do, and come on, do you think Omar and Brother Muzzone would have left there if there was any chance he would be alive?

What an amazing episode.

Peregrine · 12-15-2004, 04:54 PM

Also regarding possible cancellation, this is an interesting article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...p-224444c.html

QuikSand · 12-15-2004, 06:56 PM

Another article about the renewal decision . . . we ought to hear in the next few weeks, it seems.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertai...al-artslife-tv

spleen1015 · 12-15-2004, 08:41 PM

What time of year did the first 2 seasons air?

With HBO On-Demand, I'm guilty of not watching each new show on Sunday night. How many folks do you think do the same thing?

Peregrine · 12-15-2004, 10:35 PM

I think the show was on during the summer previously. Since it was considered one of HBO's "weaker" shows they didn't put it up against the heavy hitters of fall TV, but this year since the Sopranos and some of the other shows are long delayed, they moved it to fall. Of course my question is, with Six Feet Under only with one season to go, the Sopranos probably on its last legs, how can they afford to cancel another show? Oh well, wishful thinking. I'll be really bummed if they cancel this. I've been sending HBO those feedback emails off their website!

Leonidas · 12-16-2004, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Also regarding possible cancellation, this is an interesting article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...p-224444c.html

Pretty sad when what is clearly one of the best shows, maybe ever on TV, is in danger of cancellation because viewers have a short attention span. Let's just bring in more quality shows like "Everyone Loves Raymond" and "Joey" while running off "The Wire". I don't watch too much TV, but God it seriously pisses me off when a totally quality show is too over the head of mediocre viewers. Maybe next time we just cancel the audience instead.

Bad-example · 12-17-2004, 01:27 AM

What a terrible shame it will be if the show is not renewed. HBO never supported OZ all that well when it was still going. They only gave us 8 episodes per season and it was often in danger of being discontinued.

One season ended production with OZ in serious danger of being cancelled. The writers decided to go out with a bang in case the show never continued. There were upwards of 15 deaths in that season-ending episode.

Noop · 12-18-2004, 11:22 AM

I watched this last night and I have a question which one is the gay one? Scarface or the muslim? Also are they trying to say the Nation of Islam are drug dealers?

Noop · 12-18-2004, 11:24 AM

One more thing... who is the leader of the gang? Avon or Stringer... and what does cat in the braids do?

CentralMassHokie · 12-18-2004, 11:30 AM

Scarface - Omar - is the homosexual.

They've never told Brother Mouzone's (the Nation of Islam looking guy) backstory. My guess is that he may have at one point been a member of the NOI, but left, or the NOI doesn't know that he runs security/does hits for drug dealers. They've never implied the NOI is drug dealers. In fact, Brother Mouzone is not a drug dealer. He just does work for them, something that I think is a big distinction in the world of The Wire.

Avon Barksdale is the leader of the Barksdale crew, but was in prison for a few years, during which time Stringer Bell led them, made them more efficient, and started to put money into ventures that were more legitimate and had less risk of getting him capped.

If The Wire isn't renewed, I just might cancel my HBO subscription. The only things left will be Deadwood and Curb Your Enthusiasm ...

Noop · 12-18-2004, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CentralMassHokie

Scarface - Omar - is the homosexual.

They've never told Brother Mouzone's (the Nation of Islam looking guy) backstory. My guess is that he may have at one point been a member of the NOI, but left, or the NOI doesn't know that he runs security/does hits for drug dealers. They've never implied the NOI is drug dealers. In fact, Brother Mouzone is not a drug dealer. He just does work for them, something that I think is a big distinction in the world of The Wire.

Avon Barksdale is the leader of the Barksdale crew, but was in prison for a few years, during which time Stringer Bell led them, made them more efficient, and started to put money into ventures that were more legitimate and had less risk of getting him capped.

If The Wire isn't renewed, I just might cancel my HBO subscription. The only things left will be Deadwood and Curb Your Enthusiasm ...

Thank you. I didn't know Mouzone was a hit man... damn I regret not watching the whole season. Anyway what is interesting is Avon came back and assumed the leadership role with much fight from Stringer... I find that interesting considering money is involved. I figure Stringer would have made Avon second in command while he is the leader. Good show.

rexallllsc · 12-18-2004, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

Thank you. I didn't know Mouzone was a hit man... damn I regret not watching the whole season. Anyway what is interesting is Avon came back and assumed the leadership role with much fight from Stringer... I find that interesting considering money is involved. I figure Stringer would have made Avon second in command while he is the leader. Good show.

Didn't seem to me like Avon took the #1 role. Seemed like him and Stringer were kinda "Sharing" it and got into a power struggle.

CentralMassHokie · 12-18-2004, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Didn't seem to me like Avon took the #1 role. Seemed like him and Stringer were kinda "Sharing" it and got into a power struggle.

When Avon came back, he started calling the shots without really letting String know. Stringer still had people who he had brought in who answered to him (hence the botched hit on Omar violating the Sunday truce), but Avon had taken back 99% of the drug business, which is why the co-op was worried. Avon's taking back corners and striking out at Marlowe while Stringer tries to get him to see the big picture and work with in "Hamsterdam."

Stringer had more power than before Avon went to prison, but I think the whole organization thought Avon was #1.

24 hrs until the Season Finale. I keep checking BitTorrent sites to see if anyone has it early ...

Noop · 12-18-2004, 07:46 PM

This show is interesting is it on DVD?

Leonidas · 12-18-2004, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

Thank you. I didn't know Mouzone was a hit man... damn I regret not watching the whole season. Anyway what is interesting is Avon came back and assumed the leadership role with much fight from Stringer... I find that interesting considering money is involved. I figure Stringer would have made Avon second in command while he is the leader. Good show.

Actually, I think he's more into "security". NOI has made a buttload of money doing "security" in ghettos. I think this is a take off on that with him doing the "security" gig as a cover, but really in the pockets of the dealers with the highest bankroll. In other words, he is one amoral dude.

As for DVD, I don't think it;s there yet. My wife looked all over to get it for me for X-Mas and swears it's not out. If it were, she'd have found it.

Noop · 12-18-2004, 08:21 PM

Cool I just did a quick search myself and nothing came up although it is on some torrent sites...

Bad-example · 12-18-2004, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonidas

As for DVD, I don't think it;s there yet. My wife looked all over to get it for me for X-Mas and swears it's not out. If it were, she'd have found it.

Season one is out on dvd. I found it at both the official site and Amazon.

dann · 12-19-2004, 12:20 AM

Avon is the top dog. When the guy who was setting up the boxing for the kids asked to see the "top man", that guy was Avon. Stringer was running things while Avon was in prison, but it was really Avon's crew.

String kept trying to get Avon to change the way the crew was ran, but all along he knew it was Avon'sdecision to make. The whole Co-op thing was done by String, without Avon's knowledge.

There better be a season 4. This is without a doubt the best show on TV. It just takes a bit of dedication, but once you are in, it has you hooked, and is well worth the time invested.. I try to get as many people as possible to watch this.

Season 1 is out on DVD now, with Season 2 coming in January.

Peregrine · 12-19-2004, 09:10 AM

Quote:

I didn't know Mouzone was a hit man

He's not only a hit man, he's supposed to be one of the top hit men in New York. Avon called in some favors and recruited him last season to come down and help with some security problems they were having, people were SCARED of the guy just by reputation.

QuikSand · 12-19-2004, 10:30 AM

Mrs Q and I just re-watched the last episode (brilliant) this morning... and I wanted to put a few things together that were mroe evident to me upon a second viewing.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD (If you haven't watched the last episode)

Leading up to the hit on Stringer, there are several things pointing to how exactly it went down.

#1 - Mouzone and Omar meet up early in the episode, and realize they have common interests -- a grudge with the Barksdale gang (this is obvious)

#2 - Mouzone finds Avon (at the barber shop) and confronts him... Avon offers money, Mouzone is not interested... the scene ends before some sort of "deal" can be struck

#3 - When Avon and Stringer are having their reminiscences at the harbor overlook apartment, Avon asks when Stringer's meeting with the (Polish) contractor is scheduled for... when they have an embrace "to us" there's a very obvious sense of unease becauyse we know that Stringer has gone to the police, fingering Avon's location to get him sent back to jail... what is les obvious is that Avon is now clearly scheming against Stringer as well...

#4 - When Mouzone and Omar corner Stringer at the next day's meeting with the contractor... in the short exchange before they kill Stringer, Omar says "your boy gave you up" -- clarifying what had become very clear to me during the second viewing -- that Avon barksdale cut a deal with Mouzone and Omar, and he "gave them" Stringer to satisfy their thirst for vengeance. When the two embraced the night before, not only was Stringer working against Avon, but Avon was working against Stringer -- even more quickly and ruthlessly.

"It's just business."

That episode was full of absolutely brilliant scenes. Might be the best hour of television I have ever seen. (And I watch Sabado Gigante on a semi-regular basis, so I know of what I speak)

CentralMassHokie · 12-19-2004, 03:48 PM

I definitely had the feeling after the barber shop scene and the way it ended, followed by the rooftop scene where Avon uneasily asked where String would be, that he had gave him up.

Then, as soon as he said "It's just business" - the same words Stringer had said to Colvin about giving Avon up, I *knew* that Avon had done it.

My only question was whether or not Stringer picked up on it too. He always seemed to be one step ahead.

Just a brilliant hour of TV. The Wire is one of the few shows that actually serves from not being broadcast in HD. The 4:3 framing makes everything cramped, close, and tight, evoking exactly the feelings they want the viewer to have (I think).

Noop · 12-19-2004, 09:08 PM

Well the ending left me confused but i guess I needed to watch from the beginning to actually understand it. I fail to see why Marlo was there at the ending of the show when Avon is in the courthouse. Maybe they will put a hit on him...

CentralMassHokie · 12-19-2004, 09:13 PM

Wow, just wow.

I think that's as neatly wrapped up as things will ever get on this show. If that's the end, then there's no doubt in my mind that the 3 year run of The Wire was the best run of a show in history. Just immense storytelling.

Hopefully HBO will come to their senses and realize that this story is too good to not continue.

panerd · 12-19-2004, 09:15 PM

I believe the musical wrap up at the end previewed several potential storylines for next season. So while it is possible they were anticipating this is the end, they also have a plan set for next season. (Better than say having the President get attacked by an assasian only to later just have a hand scar) I hope McNulty on the beat doesn't spell the end of his character.

QuikSand · 12-19-2004, 09:20 PM

Very satisfying ending, certainly done with one eye on it being a potential series finale.

But there is SO much more than can be done with this show! The politics are obvious, but McNulty back on the beat, presumably in Daniels' district... what happens with Marlo on the corners... Omar?... Cutty's gym... this show really deserves a fourth season, and to not be set up against oversexed middle-aged white women.

*sigh*

Noop · 12-19-2004, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CentralMassHokie

Wow, just wow.

I think that's as neatly wrapped up as things will ever get on this show. If that's the end, then there's no doubt in my mind that the 3 year run of The Wire was the best run of a show in history. Just immense storytelling.

Hopefully HBO will come to their senses and realize that this story is too good to not continue.

Mind explaining alittle more why you feel this way? Because the word confused is what best describes how i feel. So who is in charge of the Barksdale crew? Silm Charles or the light skin guy? I fail to see how the story can continue
...

QuikSand · 12-19-2004, 09:23 PM

The story isn't about Barksdale or his crew. The story is about Baltimore. Whether the drug gangs remain the major focus is secondary -- there are plenty of things to keep fueling the show. Actually, if Marlo's crew essentially "took over" -- they'd be perfectly suitable targets for a new wire from the police, just as well as the old guys were. The king is dead, long live the king.

Noop · 12-19-2004, 09:27 PM

You see I didn't know that... a lack of kowledge on my part. The fact it is about gangsters is what makes me interested. If it is about politicans then I won't watch much...

CentralMassHokie · 12-19-2004, 09:38 PM

It's not really about gangsters, or politicians, or the cops.

It's about how the various groups affect each other and affect the city.

Season 1 was focused on the Barksdale crew and the formation of the task force to take them down using wiretaps. The season ends with lots of loose ends as internal politics of the police force and government force them to move early and the Barksdale crew all do the right things so that only a couple of folks serve more than token time - including D'Angelo Barksdale, Avon's nephew, who started to see the light that no one gets out of the game alive.

Season 2 saw the task force come back together staking out the Greek mafia, who had ties to the teamsters in Baltimore, and ended up having ties to the drug dealers. Again, the team closed in only to miss out on the top guys, but end up with lots of intel on the drug gangs.

Season 3 (this season) had a focus back on the Barksdale crew for the case, but it was as much about how the "game" affects various inhabitants of Baltimore. The police get tied up running down minor dealers and never do real case work to cut down on crime. The dealers gun down each other to the point that it's rare to see someone get out alive or live to be middle aged. The government casts a blind eye to the problem, instead insisting the cops do a better job. Citizens get caught in the middle, in some cases seeing the dealers as the benefactors of the neighborhood; in other cases, seeing them as the scourge.

To me, this season focused on a few people who tried to fight their way out of those predetermined destinies. Stringer Bell tried to go straight, but in doing so ended up even more of a criminal than he had been before, resulting in his death. Bunny Colvin tried to find a way to let police do their jobs and ends up getting screwed due to the politics of the situation. Cutty actually got his way out of the game, thought he was getting through to his kids, only to find them run back to the corners the moment they can start dealing again.

The irony for Cutty, of course, is that the hit he was supposed to do when he realized he couldn't kill anymore, was the very dealer bossing around his boxers.

I don't know if I've done the show justice. I think you can sit down and watch an entire season in order (better yet, watch at least season 1), you'll come away with the same sort of awe that the rest of us have. It's just an amazingly rich show.

Bad-example · 12-19-2004, 09:51 PM

A great ending to a great season. I hope it isn't the end of the series.

In the first couple minutes it was clear that McNulty was getting ready to make a change. It does seem a bit odd that he would move to a uniformed beat patrol since he is (was) a detective. It was his choice to move to the Western but I would have expected him to land in a role more in line with his rank. (shrug)

Overall, I agree that they did a very good job of providing some measure of closure while leaving plenty of fertile ground for more storytelling should they get the opportunity.

CentralMassHokie · 12-19-2004, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad-example

In the first couple minutes it was clear that McNulty was getting ready to make a change. It does seem a bit odd that he would move to a uniformed beat patrol since he is (was) a detective. It was his choice to move to the Western but I would have expected him to land in a role more in line with his rank. (shrug)

They planted that seed a while back though.

He ran into the detective whom they dumped the bodies on in Season 2 (I can't remember his name) and he was talking about how great it was to just be a beat cop again.

When they panned through the Western, that's who McNulty was sitting next to.

Bad-example · 12-19-2004, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CentralMassHokie

They planted that seed a while back though.

He ran into the detective whom they dumped the bodies on in Season 2 (I can't remember his name) and he was talking about how great it was to just be a beat cop again.

When they panned through the Western, that's who McNulty was sitting next to.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. I missed a fair portion of the second season.

CentralMassHokie · 12-19-2004, 10:22 PM

Hmm ... I phrased the poorly.

The run in with the cop happened this season.

They dumped the bodies on him in Season 2.

Bad-example · 12-19-2004, 10:24 PM

I know the exchange you are referring to...the cop in the van that "landed on his feet". Yes, they did kind of foreshadow McNulty's decision there.

Raven Hawk · 12-20-2004, 12:39 AM

Excellent ending. There are plenty of plot points to pick up if the show is renewed (and it better be).

One question that I have (I don't know how I missed it). Why is Daniels on the outs with his wife?

QuikSand · 12-20-2004, 01:01 AM

Over time, they set up the background that Daniels' wife was frustrated that he was so "married" to police work -- she wanted him to get promoted, or else find something better to do in the private sector. Eventually, we get the sense that she felt second place, and decided to separate.

At one point, she seemed like she was looking to reconcile, but he had just started things up with the Assistant State's Attorney... and he wasn't interested in reconciliation at that point, to his wife's apparent surprise.

Barkeep49 · 12-20-2004, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad-example

It was his choice to move to the Western but I would have expected him to land in a role more in line with his rank. (shrug)

I have the opportunity to work pretty closely with the Detectives in my city and at least here Detective isn't actually a rank, it's a title. The Detectives are on the same pay scale (with the exception of a clothing allowance) as a patrolman. The title is of considerable status but it isn't actually a rank. Not sure if this is different in the big cities but would make sense for how they were able to bust McNulty to a bad job so easily during Season 2.

Bad-example · 12-21-2004, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I have the opportunity to work pretty closely with the Detectives in my city and at least here Detective isn't actually a rank, it's a title. The Detectives are on the same pay scale (with the exception of a clothing allowance) as a patrolman. The title is of considerable status but it isn't actually a rank. Not sure if this is different in the big cities but would make sense for how they were able to bust McNulty to a bad job so easily during Season 2.

That makes sense. Thank you for making that clearer for me.

I just watched it again and laughed out loud a second time at this exchange between the guy that bought the cell phones and his girl...

Her: I swear you have got to be the stupidest motherfucker I have ever gone out with!

Him: I can't wait to go to jail.

philosophist · 12-27-2004, 04:45 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...y/262108p-2244...

Spoiler Space follows if you haven't seen this week's show.

At the climax of its third season, HBO's gritty drama "The Wire" is
hanging by one.
"We haven't been renewed," said creator David Simon, "We have not been
killed either."

A decision on the fate of Simon's critically praised series about the
dangerous corners of Baltimore's drug trade isn't expected until
mid-January.

"I know [HBO] isn't particularly pleased with our numbers," Simon
said. "Why would they be? But, at the same time, I'm not sure what on
HBO besides maybe 'The Sopranos' could have gone up against the buzz
saw that is 'Desperate Housewives' and Sunday night football."

"The Wire," which has its season (or series) finale Sunday night at 9,
boldly killed off a major character last week when Stringer Bell
(Idris Elba), a dealer trying to go legit as a real-estate developer,
was gunned down.

"I checked the [message] boards this morning and every body's upset
about Stringer," said Simon. "All I can tell you is the only way the
writers can figure out how to make the stories matter is to not make
characters matter more than the stories."

On Sunday, there is more closure and another character is put out to
pasture, though not in a predictable way.

"If we have to end here, I'll be sad," said Simon. "There is a lot
more I want to say. It took a lot to create this fictional universe of
Baltimore and there's a lot more to say."

But "The Wire" has been criticized for its labyrinthine plot lines;
its liberal use of urban vernacular has also stymied some viewers. But
HBO has made a habit of nurturing esoteric series.

"This show would have been canceled after four episodes anywhere
else," said Simon. "If [HBO] says, 'Nice try, but we're going to go
with something else,' then they say it. Does that mean I have even the
slightest regret that I didn't make the show simpler or dumbed it down
or made the cast more white? Absolutely not."

If "The Wire" makes it to fourth season, said Simon, he plans to
explore the failures of the public education system in Baltimore.

"Like a lot of cities," he said, "we have a remarkably dysfunctional
school system, one that puts the lie to the idea that if you want to
walk away from the street, you can just put your head down and do
what's right. You start to get the impression that the children of
this city are being raised by the drug corners, that this is a school
system that fits with a society where the drug trade is the best deal
of its generation."

But he may not get the chance. The overwhelming success of "The
Sopranos" has changed the climate at HBO.

"Because of 'The Sopranos' breakout hit status," said Simon,
"expectations have changed." The days when a dark prison drama like
"Oz" could survive several seasons may be coming to a close, according
to Simon.

"There was no angst about ['Oz'] ratings," said Simon. "It was what it
was. There was a commitment to storytelling, even if it was
idiosyncratic storytelling. Now I'm going up against 'Desperate
Housewives.'

"What could have gone up against 'Desperate Housewives'? 'Desperate
Housewives' is pretty. I'm not about pretty."

Bad-example · 03-19-2005, 02:18 AM

The Wire Has Been Renewed For A Fourth Season!

"The critically acclaimed, Peabody Award-winning HBO drama series THE WIRE has been renewed for a fourth season, it was announced today by Carolyn Strauss, president, HBO Entertainment. The 12-episode fourth season will begin shooting in late 2005, with debut set for 2006.

With the Barksdale investigation concluded, the fourth season of THE WIRE will expand its focus to include a look at the role of the educational system in an urban environment."

Peregrine · 03-19-2005, 05:14 AM

WOOHOO! WOOHOO! God I have been waiting for this!

QuikSand · 03-19-2005, 06:33 AM

I KNEW that the news was at the end of this thread... hadn't heard elsewhere... and I literaly held my breath as I scrolled down to the bottom.

YES!

Thanks for making my day!

spleen1015 · 03-19-2005, 09:09 PM

I am very glad to hear this!

cthomer5000 · 03-23-2005, 06:21 AM

I just finished watching Season 1 on DVD and I'm completely hooked. It's as good as any other HBO Show I've seen, maybe better. I appreciate the fact that there aren't really any perfect characters, so it's not such a clear cut good guy/bad guy drama. Also, it's fascinating to a get a glimpse of the departemental/political pressures that police must face on these types of cases constantly.

Season 2 is already on it's way via Netflix.

cthomer5000 · 04-03-2005, 09:42 PM

I think it's going to be interesting to see how the show adapts to what appears to be a very different setting. Also, the show is clearly going to be down some major characters, as Bell & Barksdales stories are about as finished as is possible. Season 2 added a completely different storyline seamlessly, so I have faith they'll be able to do it without it feeling like a stretch.

As for techinicalities, I wonder how they'll write out McNulty if Dominic West doesn't return (he's reportedly "reluctant" to). I would think there are a lot of other technical issues to work out as well (Does Daniels indeed move to the Western? Does the unit dissolve? Does someone else take over the unit?)

Also, the mayoral race storyline was pretty much just picking up steam, so they could certainly keep running with that as the "B" story.

I hadn't seen a single episode before about a month ago, and now I've watched all 3 seasons. All-in-all this is one of the finest TV shows I've ever seen, and immediately jumped into the the very small clusters of TV shows I consider myself a die-hard fan of. And I think i'd even say this bumps off Deadwood as (IMHO) the very best of the HBO series. I look forward to season 4, even as the pessimistic side of me knows that's when most TV shows really seem to start losing their grip.

Peregrine · 04-04-2005, 09:12 AM

Good to know the show has won over another convert. It really is great.

Bad-example · 04-07-2005, 02:19 AM

Just a heads up: The first season of The Wire will be on On Demand starting April 25.

Peregrine · 07-05-2005, 09:24 AM

Just got finished watching Season 1 of The Wire on DVD over the long weekend, just wow. I already thought it was the best show currently on TV, but watching the episodes close together like that really reinforced my opinion. It's amazing to me how good the show is, the storytelling, acting, everything.

Bad-example · 07-25-2005, 11:20 PM

Episodes 15-20 are playing this month. The more I watch this show, the more amazed I am by it. The Wire is the best show I have ever seen. The casting and the writing in particular are absolutely top notch.

I would like to see them expand the character of Lester, the detective that was often seen carving dollhouse furniture in the first season. He is a fairly major character but we haven't gotten much of a view into his life.

12-17-2004, 01:27 AM	#58
Bad-example College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: san jose CA	What a terrible shame it will be if the show is not renewed. HBO never supported OZ all that well when it was still going. They only gave us 8 episodes per season and it was often in danger of being discontinued. One season ended production with OZ in serious danger of being cancelled. The writers decided to go out with a bang in case the show never continued. There were upwards of 15 deaths in that season-ending episode. __________________ Karaoke Katie drove the crowd wild Every time she'd sing they'd come in for miles Curtain came up, Katie came on Drinking like a lumberjack and singing Delta Dawn

12-18-2004, 11:22 AM	#59
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	I watched this last night and I have a question which one is the gay one? Scarface or the muslim? Also are they trying to say the Nation of Islam are drug dealers? __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

12-18-2004, 11:24 AM	#60
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	One more thing... who is the leader of the gang? Avon or Stringer... and what does cat in the braids do? __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

12-18-2004, 07:46 PM	#65
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	This show is interesting is it on DVD? __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

12-18-2004, 08:21 PM	#67
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	Cool I just did a quick search myself and nothing came up although it is on some torrent sites... __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

12-15-2004, 04:52 PM	#52
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	I think Stringer is really dead. For one thing, The Wire doesn't tend to go for that hokey "we thought the guy was dead, but he came back!" gimmick that many shows do, and come on, do you think Omar and Brother Muzzone would have left there if there was any chance he would be alive? What an amazing episode.

12-15-2004, 04:54 PM	#53
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	Also regarding possible cancellation, this is an interesting article: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...p-224444c.html

12-15-2004, 06:56 PM	#54
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Another article about the renewal decision . . . we ought to hear in the next few weeks, it seems. http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertai...al-artslife-tv

12-15-2004, 08:41 PM	#55
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	What time of year did the first 2 seasons air? With HBO On-Demand, I'm guilty of not watching each new show on Sunday night. How many folks do you think do the same thing?

12-15-2004, 10:35 PM	#56
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	I think the show was on during the summer previously. Since it was considered one of HBO's "weaker" shows they didn't put it up against the heavy hitters of fall TV, but this year since the Sopranos and some of the other shows are long delayed, they moved it to fall. Of course my question is, with Six Feet Under only with one season to go, the Sopranos probably on its last legs, how can they afford to cancel another show? Oh well, wishful thinking. I'll be really bummed if they cancel this. I've been sending HBO those feedback emails off their website!

12-18-2004, 11:30 AM	#61
CentralMassHokie High School JV Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Massachusetts	Scarface - Omar - is the homosexual. They've never told Brother Mouzone's (the Nation of Islam looking guy) backstory. My guess is that he may have at one point been a member of the NOI, but left, or the NOI doesn't know that he runs security/does hits for drug dealers. They've never implied the NOI is drug dealers. In fact, Brother Mouzone is not a drug dealer. He just does work for them, something that I think is a big distinction in the world of The Wire. Avon Barksdale is the leader of the Barksdale crew, but was in prison for a few years, during which time Stringer Bell led them, made them more efficient, and started to put money into ventures that were more legitimate and had less risk of getting him capped. If The Wire isn't renewed, I just might cancel my HBO subscription. The only things left will be Deadwood and Curb Your Enthusiasm ...

12-19-2004, 12:20 AM	#69
dann n00b Join Date: Dec 2003	Avon is the top dog. When the guy who was setting up the boxing for the kids asked to see the "top man", that guy was Avon. Stringer was running things while Avon was in prison, but it was really Avon's crew. String kept trying to get Avon to change the way the crew was ran, but all along he knew it was Avon'sdecision to make. The whole Co-op thing was done by String, without Avon's knowledge. There better be a season 4. This is without a doubt the best show on TV. It just takes a bit of dedication, but once you are in, it has you hooked, and is well worth the time invested.. I try to get as many people as possible to watch this. Season 1 is out on DVD now, with Season 2 coming in January.

12-19-2004, 10:30 AM	#71
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Mrs Q and I just re-watched the last episode (brilliant) this morning... and I wanted to put a few things together that were mroe evident to me upon a second viewing. POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD (If you haven't watched the last episode) Leading up to the hit on Stringer, there are several things pointing to how exactly it went down. #1 - Mouzone and Omar meet up early in the episode, and realize they have common interests -- a grudge with the Barksdale gang (this is obvious) #2 - Mouzone finds Avon (at the barber shop) and confronts him... Avon offers money, Mouzone is not interested... the scene ends before some sort of "deal" can be struck #3 - When Avon and Stringer are having their reminiscences at the harbor overlook apartment, Avon asks when Stringer's meeting with the (Polish) contractor is scheduled for... when they have an embrace "to us" there's a very obvious sense of unease becauyse we know that Stringer has gone to the police, fingering Avon's location to get him sent back to jail... what is les obvious is that Avon is now clearly scheming against Stringer as well... #4 - When Mouzone and Omar corner Stringer at the next day's meeting with the contractor... in the short exchange before they kill Stringer, Omar says "your boy gave you up" -- clarifying what had become very clear to me during the second viewing -- that Avon barksdale cut a deal with Mouzone and Omar, and he "gave them" Stringer to satisfy their thirst for vengeance. When the two embraced the night before, not only was Stringer working against Avon, but Avon was working against Stringer -- even more quickly and ruthlessly. "It's just business." That episode was full of absolutely brilliant scenes. Might be the best hour of television I have ever seen. (And I watch Sabado Gigante on a semi-regular basis, so I know of what I speak)

12-19-2004, 03:48 PM	#72
CentralMassHokie High School JV Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Massachusetts	I definitely had the feeling after the barber shop scene and the way it ended, followed by the rooftop scene where Avon uneasily asked where String would be, that he had gave him up. Then, as soon as he said "It's just business" - the same words Stringer had said to Colvin about giving Avon up, I knew that Avon had done it. My only question was whether or not Stringer picked up on it too. He always seemed to be one step ahead. Just a brilliant hour of TV. The Wire is one of the few shows that actually serves from not being broadcast in HD. The 4:3 framing makes everything cramped, close, and tight, evoking exactly the feelings they want the viewer to have (I think).

12-19-2004, 09:08 PM	#73
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	Well the ending left me confused but i guess I needed to watch from the beginning to actually understand it. I fail to see why Marlo was there at the ending of the show when Avon is in the courthouse. Maybe they will put a hit on him... __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

12-19-2004, 09:13 PM	#74
CentralMassHokie High School JV Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Massachusetts	Wow, just wow. I think that's as neatly wrapped up as things will ever get on this show. If that's the end, then there's no doubt in my mind that the 3 year run of The Wire was the best run of a show in history. Just immense storytelling. Hopefully HBO will come to their senses and realize that this story is too good to not continue.

12-19-2004, 09:15 PM	#75
panerd Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: St. Louis	I believe the musical wrap up at the end previewed several potential storylines for next season. So while it is possible they were anticipating this is the end, they also have a plan set for next season. (Better than say having the President get attacked by an assasian only to later just have a hand scar) I hope McNulty on the beat doesn't spell the end of his character. Last edited by panerd : 12-19-2004 at 09:16 PM.

12-19-2004, 09:20 PM	#76
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Very satisfying ending, certainly done with one eye on it being a potential series finale. But there is SO much more than can be done with this show! The politics are obvious, but McNulty back on the beat, presumably in Daniels' district... what happens with Marlo on the corners... Omar?... Cutty's gym... this show really deserves a fourth season, and to not be set up against oversexed middle-aged white women. sigh

12-19-2004, 09:23 PM	#78
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	The story isn't about Barksdale or his crew. The story is about Baltimore. Whether the drug gangs remain the major focus is secondary -- there are plenty of things to keep fueling the show. Actually, if Marlo's crew essentially "took over" -- they'd be perfectly suitable targets for a new wire from the police, just as well as the old guys were. The king is dead, long live the king.

12-19-2004, 09:27 PM	#79
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	You see I didn't know that... a lack of kowledge on my part. The fact it is about gangsters is what makes me interested. If it is about politicans then I won't watch much... __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

12-19-2004, 09:38 PM	#80
CentralMassHokie High School JV Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Massachusetts	It's not really about gangsters, or politicians, or the cops. It's about how the various groups affect each other and affect the city. Season 1 was focused on the Barksdale crew and the formation of the task force to take them down using wiretaps. The season ends with lots of loose ends as internal politics of the police force and government force them to move early and the Barksdale crew all do the right things so that only a couple of folks serve more than token time - including D'Angelo Barksdale, Avon's nephew, who started to see the light that no one gets out of the game alive. Season 2 saw the task force come back together staking out the Greek mafia, who had ties to the teamsters in Baltimore, and ended up having ties to the drug dealers. Again, the team closed in only to miss out on the top guys, but end up with lots of intel on the drug gangs. Season 3 (this season) had a focus back on the Barksdale crew for the case, but it was as much about how the "game" affects various inhabitants of Baltimore. The police get tied up running down minor dealers and never do real case work to cut down on crime. The dealers gun down each other to the point that it's rare to see someone get out alive or live to be middle aged. The government casts a blind eye to the problem, instead insisting the cops do a better job. Citizens get caught in the middle, in some cases seeing the dealers as the benefactors of the neighborhood; in other cases, seeing them as the scourge. To me, this season focused on a few people who tried to fight their way out of those predetermined destinies. Stringer Bell tried to go straight, but in doing so ended up even more of a criminal than he had been before, resulting in his death. Bunny Colvin tried to find a way to let police do their jobs and ends up getting screwed due to the politics of the situation. Cutty actually got his way out of the game, thought he was getting through to his kids, only to find them run back to the corners the moment they can start dealing again. The irony for Cutty, of course, is that the hit he was supposed to do when he realized he couldn't kill anymore, was the very dealer bossing around his boxers. I don't know if I've done the show justice. I think you can sit down and watch an entire season in order (better yet, watch at least season 1), you'll come away with the same sort of awe that the rest of us have. It's just an amazingly rich show.

12-19-2004, 09:51 PM	#81
Bad-example College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: san jose CA	A great ending to a great season. I hope it isn't the end of the series. In the first couple minutes it was clear that McNulty was getting ready to make a change. It does seem a bit odd that he would move to a uniformed beat patrol since he is (was) a detective. It was his choice to move to the Western but I would have expected him to land in a role more in line with his rank. (shrug) Overall, I agree that they did a very good job of providing some measure of closure while leaving plenty of fertile ground for more storytelling should they get the opportunity.

12-19-2004, 10:22 PM	#84
CentralMassHokie High School JV Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Massachusetts	Hmm ... I phrased the poorly. The run in with the cop happened this season. They dumped the bodies on him in Season 2.

12-19-2004, 10:24 PM	#85
Bad-example College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: san jose CA	I know the exchange you are referring to...the cop in the van that "landed on his feet". Yes, they did kind of foreshadow McNulty's decision there. __________________ Karaoke Katie drove the crowd wild Every time she'd sing they'd come in for miles Curtain came up, Katie came on Drinking like a lumberjack and singing Delta Dawn

12-20-2004, 12:39 AM	#86
Raven Hawk College Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Thunderdome	Excellent ending. There are plenty of plot points to pick up if the show is renewed (and it better be). One question that I have (I don't know how I missed it). Why is Daniels on the outs with his wife? __________________ Owner of The Shreveport Pride in The CFL

12-20-2004, 01:01 AM	#87
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Over time, they set up the background that Daniels' wife was frustrated that he was so "married" to police work -- she wanted him to get promoted, or else find something better to do in the private sector. Eventually, we get the sense that she felt second place, and decided to separate. At one point, she seemed like she was looking to reconcile, but he had just started things up with the Assistant State's Attorney... and he wasn't interested in reconciliation at that point, to his wife's apparent surprise.

12-27-2004, 04:45 PM	#90
philosophist n00b Join Date: Dec 2004	http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...y/262108p-2244... Spoiler Space follows if you haven't seen this week's show. At the climax of its third season, HBO's gritty drama "The Wire" is hanging by one. "We haven't been renewed," said creator David Simon, "We have not been killed either." A decision on the fate of Simon's critically praised series about the dangerous corners of Baltimore's drug trade isn't expected until mid-January. "I know [HBO] isn't particularly pleased with our numbers," Simon said. "Why would they be? But, at the same time, I'm not sure what on HBO besides maybe 'The Sopranos' could have gone up against the buzz saw that is 'Desperate Housewives' and Sunday night football." "The Wire," which has its season (or series) finale Sunday night at 9, boldly killed off a major character last week when Stringer Bell (Idris Elba), a dealer trying to go legit as a real-estate developer, was gunned down. "I checked the [message] boards this morning and every body's upset about Stringer," said Simon. "All I can tell you is the only way the writers can figure out how to make the stories matter is to not make characters matter more than the stories." On Sunday, there is more closure and another character is put out to pasture, though not in a predictable way. "If we have to end here, I'll be sad," said Simon. "There is a lot more I want to say. It took a lot to create this fictional universe of Baltimore and there's a lot more to say." But "The Wire" has been criticized for its labyrinthine plot lines; its liberal use of urban vernacular has also stymied some viewers. But HBO has made a habit of nurturing esoteric series. "This show would have been canceled after four episodes anywhere else," said Simon. "If [HBO] says, 'Nice try, but we're going to go with something else,' then they say it. Does that mean I have even the slightest regret that I didn't make the show simpler or dumbed it down or made the cast more white? Absolutely not." If "The Wire" makes it to fourth season, said Simon, he plans to explore the failures of the public education system in Baltimore. "Like a lot of cities," he said, "we have a remarkably dysfunctional school system, one that puts the lie to the idea that if you want to walk away from the street, you can just put your head down and do what's right. You start to get the impression that the children of this city are being raised by the drug corners, that this is a school system that fits with a society where the drug trade is the best deal of its generation." But he may not get the chance. The overwhelming success of "The Sopranos" has changed the climate at HBO. "Because of 'The Sopranos' breakout hit status," said Simon, "expectations have changed." The days when a dark prison drama like "Oz" could survive several seasons may be coming to a close, according to Simon. "There was no angst about ['Oz'] ratings," said Simon. "It was what it was. There was a commitment to storytelling, even if it was idiosyncratic storytelling. Now I'm going up against 'Desperate Housewives.' "What could have gone up against 'Desperate Housewives'? 'Desperate Housewives' is pretty. I'm not about pretty."

03-19-2005, 02:18 AM	#91
Bad-example College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: san jose CA	The Wire Has Been Renewed For A Fourth Season! "The critically acclaimed, Peabody Award-winning HBO drama series THE WIRE has been renewed for a fourth season, it was announced today by Carolyn Strauss, president, HBO Entertainment. The 12-episode fourth season will begin shooting in late 2005, with debut set for 2006. With the Barksdale investigation concluded, the fourth season of THE WIRE will expand its focus to include a look at the role of the educational system in an urban environment."

03-19-2005, 05:14 AM	#92
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	WOOHOO! WOOHOO! God I have been waiting for this! __________________ Your guilty conscience may force you to vote Democratic, but deep down inside you secretly long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king. --Sideshow Bob

03-19-2005, 06:33 AM	#93
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I KNEW that the news was at the end of this thread... hadn't heard elsewhere... and I literaly held my breath as I scrolled down to the bottom. YES! Thanks for making my day!

03-19-2005, 09:09 PM	#94
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	I am very glad to hear this! __________________ Why choose failure when success is an option?

04-04-2005, 09:12 AM	#97
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	Good to know the show has won over another convert. It really is great. __________________ Your guilty conscience may force you to vote Democratic, but deep down inside you secretly long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king. --Sideshow Bob

04-07-2005, 02:19 AM	#98
Bad-example College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: san jose CA	Just a heads up: The first season of The Wire will be on On Demand starting April 25.

07-05-2005, 09:24 AM	#99
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	Just got finished watching Season 1 of The Wire on DVD over the long weekend, just wow. I already thought it was the best show currently on TV, but watching the episodes close together like that really reinforced my opinion. It's amazing to me how good the show is, the storytelling, acting, everything.

07-25-2005, 11:20 PM	#100
Bad-example College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: san jose CA	Episodes 15-20 are playing this month. The more I watch this show, the more amazed I am by it. The Wire is the best show I have ever seen. The casting and the writing in particular are absolutely top notch. I would like to see them expand the character of Lester, the detective that was often seen carving dollhouse furniture in the first season. He is a fairly major character but we haven't gotten much of a view into his life.