2007-08 NBA Playoffs thread

[stevew]

Games start tomorrow, can't wait.

[stevew]

I thought this was funny.

[miami_fan]

Eastern Conference

Celtics vs Hawks=Celtics in 4
Pistons vs Sixers=Pistons in 5
Magic vs Raptors=Magic in 6
Wizards vs Cavs= Wizards in 6


Lakers vs Nuggets=Lakers in 5
Mavs vs Hornets=Mavs in 7
Suns vs Spurs=Suns in 6
Rockets vs Jazz=Jazz in 5

[Big Fo]

C'mon Orlando! Hopefully they win their first-round series before bowing out to the Pistons in five or six.

[molson]

This is the most interested I've been in the playoffs since around 1992. Most of that is the Celtics winning 66 games, but even beyond that, the whole league has just clicked for me this year.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by molson

This is the most interested I've been in the playoffs since around 1992. Most of that is the Celtics winning 66 games, but even beyond that, the whole league has just clicked for me this year.

Same here. I always get interested in the later rounds, but this is the earliest I've been interested in the playoffs. Plenty of interesting matchups and storylines this 1st round. This Cavs/Wizards game has been fairly entertaining. Looking forward to seeing LeBron step it up in the 4th.

[Neon_Chaos]

I want to see him pick up his second T.

[Eaglesfan27]

Nice that the Wizards are getting to see how overrated LeBron is.

[Neon_Chaos]

Stick a fork in them, they're done.

Too bad, the Wiz could have won this game. But hibachi didn't show up in the clutch.

[Neon_Chaos]

Lol. And James misses two clutch free throws that would have sealed the win.

5 points, 20 seconds. Been done before. Let's see what happens.

edit:

D.West finishes this one off with two free throws.

[miami_fan]

Pretty move by Parker but four fouls or not, Shaq has to make him shoot free throws on that one.

[miami_fan]

Even if Shaq is on another team than the Heat, I still hate the Hack a Shaq strategy.

[Jas_lov]

I love the Hack a Shaq strategy. Force them to take him out. It looks like it's working.

[Fidatelo]

That was an awesome block by Shaq just stuffing the ball back in Ginobli's weaselface.

[Eaglesfan27]

These first two games have been everything I was hoping for today. I'm not as enthusiastic about tonight's games, but looking forward to seeing if Phoenix can pull it out in this OT.

[Jas_lov]

No Stoudemire, Shaq has 5 fouls, and Tim Duncan is making 3 pointers. I don't think the Suns will pull this one out.

[Vince]

Holy lord was that an entertaining game. Tim Duncan for three? Nash with the running sideways fade? Wow. And that was game 1.

[miami_fan]

I am very impressed by the Hornets performance tonight. Chris Paul seemed to turn his game up even more.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Vince

Holy lord was that an entertaining game. Tim Duncan for three? Nash with the running sideways fade? Wow. And that was game 1.

Funny, I always heard that Spurs games were boring.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am very impressed by the Hornets performance tonight. Chris Paul seemed to turn his game up even more.

Agreed, one of the best games I've seen Chris Paul play this year. Excellent job for a young guy to step up in the playoffs.

[Arles]

As much as this loss stings as a Suns fan, you have to tip your hat to SA for their ability to hit clutch shots. Should be a great series.

[Neon_Chaos]

What's the over/under on the number of players getting into a fight and ejected in the Rockets/Jazz game?

The officiating is just horrid. They need to get control of this game.

[Neon_Chaos]

funny moment: Bobby Jackson turns the ball over, and Rafer Alston makes a "ball" motion from the bench.

[Doug5984]

Tonight was the first time I've watched an entire basketball game- simply not a fan, but wanted to watch the Hornets play, I had seen the last few minutes of a few games, watched the 2nd half of the game against the Lakers last weekend, and was very impressed / entertained- so tonight, we got some boiled crawfish and watched the entire game- for all of us there it was the first time watching an entire game and we all thought it was a great game- and a great performance by Chris Paul- he is good.

[Brian Swartz]

Only one thing could make the Spurs-Suns series any better: bar Shaq from speaking in public.

[stevew]

I hope the Mavs lose in the first round again. I'm tired of Dirk flopping around like a little girl all the time.

[Cap Ologist]

Originally Posted by stevew

I hope the Mavs lose in the first round again. I'm tired of Dirk flopping around like a little girl all the time.

Agreed, I hate Dirk NoWINski. Can't wait to hear the local sports talk homers find some way to spin this on Monday.

[stevew]

http://

More videos from the "Burly Sports Show" channel at Heavy.com

[stevew]

I also think it'll be funny when T "I've never seen the 2nd round" Mac and the Rockets get bounced in the first round.

[JeeberD]

Hippy...

[Neon_Chaos]

I found it amazing that noone pointed out how many bricks Bobby Jackson shot. He just kept throwing them up.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I found it amazing that noone pointed out how many bricks Bobby Jackson shot. He just kept throwing them up.

His turnovers were worse - that one right at the end of the second half where he bobbled it when he had a wide open layup to end the half.

[TroyF]

As great as the Spurs/Suns game was, I'm stunned at how few of people are talking about the reasons the Suns lost this basketball game. I mean the real reasons.

Let's look them over:

1) Pop simply outcoached D'antoni. I mean crushed him. It was the biggest mismatch on the floor. The three Finley hits to send the game into OT was made mainly because Grant Hill wasn't in the game defending. Instead you had a small PG who had no prayer of getting a hand in his face. It was horrible strategy. The Hack a Skinner and Hack a Shaq moves that each were a turning point. And of course, the TD three. More about that in my next man to blame slot. . .

2) Shaq. The media sure loves to fawn over him, don't they? OOOHHHH, look at that block on Timmy D. That was clutch. And Shaq sure loves to use excuses. The floppers won, huh Shaq? Well, yeah, SA flops. But as long as you have Amare, I really don't want to hear a lot about flopping, ok Big Diesal?

Yet lets look at the reality of this game now. The highest paid player on the court had to be taken out of the game for four minutes of the fourth quarter because he couldn't hit a FT. When he got his 5th foul, Manu attacked him and scored repeated layups because Shaq didn't want to get a 6th. This is even counting late in the first OT when the Suns had a good sized lead. They couldn't get the critical stop because Shaq didn't want to get a 6th foul.

This is no more evident than on the three pointer by Tim Duncan. There is one thing the Suns couldn't afford to give up there. A wide open three pointer. To anyone. That's the only thing that can hurt you. The first mistake the Suns make there is not fouling when Manu starts dribbling. That's one of the single worst coaching moves we'll see this postseason. Words can't even describe how idiotic that was. This was compounded by Shaq staying in the lane to prevent a Ginobili drive on a two point shot with under 5 seconds left. Instead of saying "gee Manu, take the two, we've won the game, Shaq decides to D up on him instead of running out to put a hand in TD's face. I don't care how you slice this, it was lazy and stupid basketball. (I'm a Nuggets fan, I know stupid and lazy basketball when I see it) And it's made by your highest paid player, the one you traded for to win a title.

Getting back to the coaching, why was Shaq even in there? What good was he going to do for the Suns at that point? Stop a two point shot you wanted the Spurs to take? Maybe get the rebound so he can get fouled, miss two shots and give the Spurs a second chance to win the game? The guy had 5 boards in 30 minutes anyway.

The Suns have a chance to win the series and recover from this. But they'd better damned well have their coach get his head out of his ass and their 20 million dollar player to stop bitching about the flops and instead maybe run out at a three point shooter who is in the process of tying up the basketball game.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by TroyF

1) Pop simply outcoached D'antoni. I mean crushed him. It was the biggest mismatch on the floor. The three Finley hits to send the game into OT was made mainly because Grant Hill wasn't in the game defending. Instead you had a small PG who had no prayer of getting a hand in his face. It was horrible strategy. The Hack a Skinner and Hack a Shaq moves that each were a turning point. And of course, the TD three. More about that in my next man to blame slot. . .

Agree completed on the Grant Hill point. Having Barbosa (6-2) guard Finley (6-7) on a final shot was stupid. Amare also killed the Suns by sagging on Oberto instead of doubling Finley on the screen.

2) Shaq. The media sure loves to fawn over him, don't they? OOOHHHH, look at that block on Timmy D. That was clutch. And Shaq sure loves to use excuses. The floppers won, huh Shaq? Well, yeah, SA flops. But as long as you have Amare, I really don't want to hear a lot about flopping, ok Big Diesal?

Shaq only played 4 minutes in the first and got his 4th 25 seconds into the 3rd. And, given 2 of those 4 fouls were obvious flop, it's not surprising he made some comments. I suppose if Duncan played 4 minutes in the first half because of flops he wouldn't have made any comments?

As to the 3, you tip your hat. The Suns should have fouled Manu when he drove inside the lane. But, Duncan would probably have been the preferred person to shoot the 3 when compared to Finley, Manu, Barry and others. If Duncan bricks that shot, everyone is talking about how Pop blew it on the final possession.

Yet lets look at the reality of this game now. The highest paid player on the court had to be taken out of the game for four minutes of the fourth quarter because he couldn't hit a FT. When he got his 5th foul, Manu attacked him and scored repeated layups because Shaq didn't want to get a 6th. This is even counting late in the first OT when the Suns had a good sized lead. They couldn't get the critical stop because Shaq didn't want to get a 6th foul.

Did you see Shaq's two blocks on Duncan and 2 rebounds in key spots? Heck, if Amare stops and shoots the jumper from 7 feet instead of barreling over Kurt Thomas, Shaq is the hero.

This is no more evident than on the three pointer by Tim Duncan. There is one thing the Suns couldn't afford to give up there. A wide open three pointer. To anyone. That's the only thing that can hurt you. The first mistake the Suns make there is not fouling when Manu starts dribbling. That's one of the single worst coaching moves we'll see this postseason.

Yeah, that was the big mistake.

Words can't even describe how idiotic that was. This was compounded by Shaq staying in the lane to prevent a Ginobili drive on a two point shot with under 5 seconds left. Instead of saying "gee Manu, take the two, we've won the game, Shaq decides to D up on him instead of running out to put a hand in TD's face. I don't care how you slice this, it was lazy and stupid basketball. (I'm a Nuggets fan, I know stupid and lazy basketball when I see it) And it's made by your highest paid player, the one you traded for to win a title.

The Duncan shot was a rotation issue where Bell was late. Shaq hedged on the screen to double Manu - remember when the screen was set, Manu was in 3-point land. Are saying Shaq should have left Manu open and ran back to Duncan to protect Duncan's 3?

Shaq rode him out to the center and forced Manu towards the hoop. That's where Nash or Amare should have fouled him. Then, Shaq was a good 20 feet from Duncan going the other direction. Bell should have closed on the 3, but that would have left his man open. Given the foul was not taken on Manu, there was no way for any of the other people to get to Shaq without leaving a better 3-point shooter open. Shaq was too far away (going the other direction) forcing Manu off the line to get there.

Getting back to the coaching, why was Shaq even in there? What good was he going to do for the Suns at that point? Stop a two point shot you wanted the Spurs to take? Maybe get the rebound so he can get fouled, miss two shots and give the Spurs a second chance to win the game? The guy had 5 boards in 30 minutes anyway.

I agree that Shaq should have been on the bench for a better defender. I'm not sure they had a chance to sub, but if they did, he should have been out.

The Suns have a chance to win the series and recover from this. But they'd better damned well have their coach get his head out of his ass and their 20 million dollar player to stop bitching about the flops and instead maybe run out at a three point shooter who is in the process of tying up the basketball game.

Mike D made some mistakes, but blaming Shaq is silly. If you would have told me that the Suns would win game 1 in SA if Duncan misses a 3-point shot with 3 seconds left, I would have gladly taken it. The Spurs hit two tough 3s to win the game, that's life. I agree with the fouling and subbing for Hill, but there's a very good chance one of those two doesn't go in and the Suns are heros. Also, the comments on flopping are just frustration. You give Duncan or Manu the foul situation Shaq had (with atleast 2 flops) and compound it with a tough loss and you would see all kinds of complaining on their end too. Honestly, I wouldn't pay it much attention.

We'll see what happens in game 2, but the Suns have to feel pretty good about themselves. I doubt Shaq plays 4 minutes in the first half of game 2 and Nash plays less than a day after being bed-ridden with the flu. In the end, the Suns are in a solid position - they know they can win in SA, they just have to have better offensive possessions in crunch time.

[miami_fan]

Can you really complain about Shaq not being able to hit a free throw at this point in his career? He has not been able to do so for 15+ years. I would think the Suns would have already taken that into consideration and planned accordingly. As far as TD's three pointer, yes the smart play would have been for them to stay at home and give up the two. Actually you are right. The smartest play would have been to foul. However if you had told D'Antoni that on that play he would have had Duncan shooting a three at the buzzer, he would have taken his chances. I can't really beat him or the team up over that one. My main criticism of Shaq and the rest of the Suns would be passiveness at the end of the game defensively. According to the Suns, Shaq was brought in for rebounding and low post defense. At some point during the 4th qtr and the overtimes, Shaq has to throw caution to the wind and actually play the aggressive defense in the paint they expect him to play. If he fouls out, he fouls out. However, at the very least you ask the Spurs to hit at least one pressure free throw as opposed to layup after layup after layup. Shaq playing passively is the equal of him fouling out. He does the Suns no good that way. Now, if you make the decision that Shaq is too valuable to your team to foul out as it seems D'Antoni did, then someone else has to step up and play that aggressive D. A quick look at the play by play shows that other that the two free throws that were intentionally given to Brent Barry at the end of the second OT, the Spurs last shot free throws with about six minutes left in the 4th qtr. There is something wrong with that picture when Manu is driving at will and Tim Duncan is taking it to the basket from the post.I am not saying they should have been like the 90's Pistons but you can not allow a team to know they can drive to your basket unchallenged.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

According to the Suns, Shaq was brought in for rebounding and low post defense. At some point during the 4th qtr and the overtimes, Shaq has to throw caution to the wind and actually play the aggressive defense in the paint they expect him to play.

4th quarter:
1:15 Ginobili Layup Shot: Missed Block: O'Neal (3 BLK)

OT:
1:57 Duncan Jump Shot: Missed Block: O'Neal (4 BLK)

0:29 Duncan Turnover:Lost Ball (4 TO) Strip: O'Neal

I would say three key defensive plays in the last 2 minutes of the 4th and OT is making a pretty big impact on defense. Shaq blocked Duncan and stripped him in the final 2 minutes. After the second one, Phoenix had the ball and a 3-point lead with 30 seconds left. Amare got the stupid charge foul with 12 seconds left. If he just grabs the ball at the top of the key, wait 3 seconds and shoots - the Suns probably win. O'Neal wasn't the reason they lost, two bonehead plays by Amare (charge and fail to double Finley on the first 3), poor matchups by Mike D and Nash's inability to foul Manu were the 3 reasons. But, again, none of that matters unless a career 19% 3-point shooter (16% postseason) who was 0-4 in the entire 07-08 season hits a 3 with 3 seconds left. Coaching is mostly setting up your players to have the best chance to win and I can't really think of a higher % chance that Duncan from 3 for the Suns to get a win. It didn't happen, like Amare said "Happy Birthday Mr. Duncan."

[Brian Swartz]

the comments on flopping are just frustration. You give Duncan or Manu the foul situation Shaq had (with atleast 2 flops) and compound it with a tough loss and you would see all kinds of complaining on their end too. Honestly, I wouldn't pay it much attention.

Not so, see the series two years ago against Dallas. Other than a couple comments by Duncan milder than what Shaq said(something like there were an awful lot of whistles) in the middle of the series, there was pretty much no post-game complaining and most of them went out of their way to say that wasn't an issue. Shaq is simply doing here what he's always done: demonize and disrespect the opponent. He's done it his whole career, going back to his first Finals in Orlando when he went up against Hakeem. He's bashed Olajuwon, Mutombo, Wallace, the list goes on and on, accusing them all of being floppers. It's vintage Shaq, and the main reason why I personally dislike him as a player -- I wish he'd just be willing to respect his opponents win or lose like most guys do.

As far as the series goes, the Suns still have a great chance to win IF they can come back mentally from this. As it was last year, the only thing stopping them from beating the Spurs is whether or not they really believe they can do it and having the mental toughness to execute in key moments. They've had a more talented team than SA for quite some time now.

[Chief Rum]

So are people finally seeing what a crappy, petulant person Shaq is after 15 years? Honestly, it's amazing the ridiculous love this guy gets with all the shit he pulls.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I wish he'd just be willing to respect his opponents win or lose like most guys do.

Really? I am all for sportmanship but he doesn't have to show them any respect. If anything they should be doing their best to make him show it.

You know that quote... "Respect isn't given it is earned" learned that playing youth football.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Noop

Really? I am all for sportmanship but he doesn't have to show them any respect. If anything they should be doing their best to make him show it.

You know that quote... "Respect isn't given it is earned" learned that playing youth football.

Spurs win Game 1. Respect earned.

Shaq should have learned this playing youth basketball.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Spurs win Game 1. Respect earned.

Shaq should have learned this playing youth basketball.

Eh. Not really.

[stevew]

Barbosa has the wingspan of a 7 footer, fwiw.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Noop

Eh. Not really.

Your ass got beat, and you don't give respect? Sorry, but that's BS. Anyone who gets beat putting out their best when the stakes are highest and doesn't give respect to the ones who showed up and beat them doesn't deserve to offer their opinion about what constitutes deserving respect.

[Brian Swartz]

I am all for sportmanship but he doesn't have to show them any respect. If anything they should be doing their best to make him show it.

I dunno, it's pretty hard to be more successful than the Duncan-era Spurs have been. By this logic you would have to say nobody in the modern era other than MJ deserves Shaq's respect, which is ridiculous I think. I mean seriously, what franchise deserves his respect if SA doesn't?

None of this changes how outstanding Shaq's career has been. But the man even admitted he was a hypocrite when he came to Miami and did a 180 on his opinion of Zo, and he explained why, which is exactly what I said: he demonizes and disrespects the opponent, the only way he can get fired up to play. I'm just saying it's too bad he has to be that juvenile about it, since the rest of the top players in the league(not just Duncan) aren't for the most part. For all the hate towards him, listen to the respect Kobe had for Phoenix after they beat the Lakers in the first round two years ago. In this aspect he's light years ahead of Shaq, and pretty much always has been.

In a twisted sort of way, when Shaq says these types of things it's actually his way of showing respect, as he doesn't say this crap about just any team. It's always when the stakes are highest.

[Eaglesfan27]

Did anyone listen to Shaq the other day when he was praising Tim Duncan and talking about how he is one of the best players in the game? It didn't sound like he was demonizing or disrespecting Duncan.

[Brian Swartz]

He called Hakeem the greatest center ever before his first Finals too -- and then didn't have another decent thing to say about him once the series started, it was all flopper and coward and the like. All par for the course really.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

He called Hakeem the greatest center ever before his first Finals too -- and then didn't have another decent thing to say about him once the series started, it was all flopper and coward and the like. All par for the course really.

(a) I don't remember that at all. In fact, he still calls Hakeem one of the greatest players ever...he said it again last week, I believe.

(b) How the hell could he try and talk smack about Hakeem when The Dream outplayed his ass in that series?

[Eaglesfan27]

Yeah, I don't remember him saying one bad word about Hakeem that entire series. Of course, my memory could be faulty since it was 13 plus years ago.

[Groundhog]

How about that Gasol? 36 points, 16 rebounds, 8 assists.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

He called Hakeem the greatest center ever before his first Finals too -- and then didn't have another decent thing to say about him once the series started, it was all flopper and coward and the like. All par for the course really.

It's Shaq and everything he says has a reason. Him praising Hakeem has more to do with being a shot at Robinson more then it did as praise for Hakeem