God Hates Fags?

[Easy Mac]

Just saw this little tidbit on the local news. Evidently Western Carolina was doing a play about hte gay kid that was killed a few years ago. Well, some people decided to protest. At the protest, the signs they held said "God Hates Fags!" They also protested outside of churches that allowed gays to attend church there. This I can live with, say what you want even if you're retarded. But what really got me worked up was that they had a girl who was no older than 7 on the TV and they interviewed her. She said repeated the lines that God Hates Fags and they deserve to go to hell. I'm sorry, but for a person to teach something like that to their kids? I think someone else deserves to go to hell.

I don't mean to rile any fences here, but this really just upset me that people act the way they do sometimes.

And this is the only thing I could find on the news' website (WLOS-13 from Ashville):

Play Protest A handful of anti-gay protesters confront dozens of college students over the performance of a provocative play. Demonstrators from the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas picket at a performance of "The Laramie Project" at Western Carolina University Friday night. The play details the circumstances surrounding the beating death of a gay college student, Matthew Shephard. The group believes this country is on a moral delcine and will suffer because of it. Protesters will also demonstrate at Saturday's performance and at half a dozen churches Sunday.

[NoMyths]

Awful.

[JeeberD]

I thought this was going to be an anti-smoking thread...

[MrBug708]

Ignorant people....*sigh*

People like these gives Christians a bad name

[revrew]

There's so much stupidity when false teachers start spewing off about God.

For the record:
1. God does NOT hate homosexuals. (Now, since these folks carried the name Baptist, I assume they're psuedo-Christian, claim-to-be Bible believers, so I'm referring to the biblical, Judeo-Christian "God")
2. No one "deserves" to go to hell for any individual action or decision. We don't "earn" hell by so many demerits. The protesters would be more accurate to hold up signs that say, "I deserve hell, too!"

Few things make me more upset than people who have no clue claiming to know my God. If Jesus came to do a temple-clearing kind of butt kickin' at this rally, he would have started with the protesters, not the actors.

[Fritz]

If you think that God hates homosexuals, I don't see the problem teaching that to you kids. Isn't one of the jobs of a parent to teach their children a value system?

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Fritz

If you think that God hates homosexuals, I don't see the problem teaching that to you kids. Isn't one of the jobs of a parent to teach their children a value system?

I think christians should teach what thier religion says, and their religion doesn't say this.

but this is why i think christianity, and most religions, are bullshit. You have guys like my co-driver who go to church every week, can't do anything else on sunday because of this, and then the rest of the week do things that are "not very christian."

[Scarecrow]

Welcome to my world. I have the Westboro Baptist Chuch picketing in front of my office at least once a week.

Not that they are picketing the company that I work for, just that a) there is a chuch across the street that opposes them and b) it's a busy intersection and they are more interested in the publicity.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Cringer

but this is why i think christianity, and most religions, are bullshit. You have guys like my co-driver who go to church every week, can't do anything else on sunday because of this, and then the rest of the week do things that are "not very christian."

SO, because of one guy, "Christianity" is bullshit? And I thought there were some Christians who were very judgemental

[Fritz]

The majority of people don't have a clue what their religion actually says. They go by what they were taught, and then pass it along. This is more or less how things go with most religions that I am familiar with. This is especially true of people who belong to a congregation does not have professionaly educated clergy to guide people. Even educated clergy debate aspects of their religion. It should be of little wonder that people get it "wrong."

Out of curiosity, have you spent much time with christian theology? Do you know for a fact that christianity does not say that "god hates fags," or are you guilty of the same sort of ignorance when making the statement that the religion does not teach that?

Originally Posted by Cringer

I think christians should teach what thier religion says, and their religion doesn't say this.

[Bubba Wheels]

This type of thing is always rooted out and trumpeted by anti-Christian people/forces. They think that by doing this they will influence others to somehow disavow Christianity or something. Katie Couric showed her complete ignorance when she basically blamed the Christians for killing this Shepard kid. Anybody who takes the time to actually read the Bible will find that while God does consider homosexuality an abomination, God also loves each and every human being because we are all created in His likeness and Jesus died for each and every one of us. But apparantly this is too complex a thing for many to understand, or else they do understand it and just choose to misrepresent Christianity entirely. That is someone's shoes I would not care to be in when he/she stands before God and accounts for their actions in this life.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

This type of thing is always rooted out and trumpeted by anti-Christian people/forces. They think that by doing this they will influence others to somehow disavow Christianity or something. Katie Couric showed her complete ignorance when she basically blamed the Christians for killing this Shepard kid. Anybody who takes the time to actually read the Bible will find that while God does consider homosexuality an abomination, God also loves each and every human being because we are all created in His likeness and Jesus died for each and every one of us. But apparantly this is too complex a thing for many to understand, or else they do understand it and just choose to misrepresent Christianity entirely. That is someone's shoes I would not care to be in when he/she stands before God and accounts for their actions in this life.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

SO, because of one guy, "Christianity" is bullshit? And I thought there were some Christians who were very judgemental

no, because of almost every christian i have ever gotten to know well, like my father, co-workers and former friends. Also people who are in the public eye and very open about thier "christianity" and do things that don't fit with that....i.e. every politician, certian tele-evangilists, and things like that.

looking at what i said, i will amend it. the religion itself is not the problem, it is usually very good in its meaning and teachings (even if i disagree with somethings, like i am ok with homosexuals). It is the people who follow that religion, and twist things to thier liking, or only take parts of it here and there and throw the rest out and think they are still going to heaven while i am not, that i think are bullshit. unfortunetly, for me anyways, that is most of the christians i have ever known. I know not all are like this, like my favorite aunt, who is a good lady. But it is my opinion that most of the people in this country who say they are christians, are not. They may go to church, they may protest things in the name of thier God, but are no more in touch with God then I, who never go to church. They cuss, they steal, they screw people over, they do what ever they have to do to make the good ole american dream come true. I see it every day, from the person with the "Jesus Fish" on thier car as they are cutting me off and then flipping me off because i had the nerve to only be going 3 mph over the speed limit instead of 10, to the Nun's, yes the Nun's who live across the street from me who won't even say "hi" to me for some unkown reason.

i ranted, sorry.

[Fritz]

YOU GOTTA TAKE YOUR SHOES TO HEAVEN?

[Fritz]

dola, what if you die by shark attack while skinny dipping off the florida keys?

[Noop]

Smart people believe in God not religion... or so I have heard.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by Cringer

no, because of almost every christian i have ever gotten to know well, like my father, co-workers and former friends. Also people who are in the public eye and very open about thier "christianity" and do things that don't fit with that....i.e. every politician, certian tele-evangilists, and things like that.

looking at what i said, i will amend it. the religion itself is not the problem, it is usually very good in its meaning and teachings (even if i disagree with somethings, like i am ok with homosexuals). It is the people who follow that religion, and twist things to thier liking, or only take parts of it here and there and throw the rest out and think they are still going to heaven while i am not, that i think are bullshit. unfortunetly, for me anyways, that is most of the christians i have ever known. I know not all are like this, like my favorite aunt, who is a good lady. But it is my opinion that most of the people in this country who say they are christians, are not. They may go to church, they may protest things in the name of thier God, but are no more in touch with God then I, who never go to church. They cuss, they steal, they screw people over, they do what ever they have to do to make the good ole american dream come true. I see it every day, from the person with the "Jesus Fish" on thier car as they are cutting me off and then flipping me off because i had the nerve to only be going 3 mph over the speed limit instead of 10, to the Nun's, yes the Nun's who live across the street from me who won't even say "hi" to me for some unkown reason.

i ranted, sorry.

Again, all addressed in great detail within the Bible itself. Please read it. Also, having been originally raised a Catholic and now a born-again non-denominational Christian, I always cringe when those like yourself equate Catholic teachings with Biblical principles. I am not anti-Catholic, and do believe many good Christians are Catholic in denomination, but Catholic dogma and Biblical teachings do diverge at some very important intervals (God forgives sin, not Priests). Those confused about the two should do some study on Martin Luther, in particular.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Fritz

The majority of people don't have a clue what their religion actually says. They go by what they were taught, and then pass it along. This is more or less how things go with most religions that I am familiar with. This is especially true of people who belong to a congregation does not have professionaly educated clergy to guide people. Even educated clergy debate aspects of their religion. It should be of little wonder that people get it "wrong."

Out of curiosity, have you spent much time with christian theology? Do you know for a fact that christianity does not say that "god hates fags," or are you guilty of the same sort of ignorance when making the statement that the religion does not teach that?

Ok, i am NOT a religous theologist. So if you want to produce a verse from the Bible that says, "GOD HATES FAGS" then i admit i was wrong. Until such a time, i will go on believing the Bible says the God loves all people, and that he hates the sin not the sinner.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Again, all addressed in great detail within the Bible itself. Please read it. Also, having been originally raised a Catholic and now a born-again non-denominational Christian, I always cringe when those like yourself equate Catholic teachings with Biblical principles. I am not anti-Catholic, and do believe many good Christians are Catholic in denomination, but Catholic dogma and Biblical teachings do diverge at some very important intervals (God forgives sin, not Priests). Those confused about the two should do some study on Martin Luther, in particular.

wait, you're born again? noooooooooooooo.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Some of you people are silly.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Ok, i am NOT a religous theologist. So if you want to produce a verse from the Bible that says, "GOD HATES FAGS" then i admit i was wrong. Until such a time, i will go on believing the Bible says the God loves all people, and that he hates the sin not the sinner.

I am not trying to argue that the religion says one thing or the other. As a non-Christian, I don't know much. (Heck, I didn't even know divorce and abortion were okay, how would I know about homosexuality?) I am just pointing out that you may be working off less than full understanding, which is probably the case with most folks.

[Fritz]

dola. Can someone clarify the shoes part. THIS IS IMPORTANT

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Ok, i am NOT a religous theologist. So if you want to produce a verse from the Bible that says, "GOD HATES FAGS" then i admit i was wrong. Until such a time, i will go on believing the Bible says the God loves all people, and that he hates the sin not the sinner.

This is actually a very clear interpretation of exactly what the Bible does teach. As such, it will no doubt be ridiculed, distained, mocked, disrespected and the like. "Those that have eyes to see, let them see, those that have ears to hear, let them hear." Jesus Christ

[LionsFan10]

Just a small observation, but I believe one thing, and one thing only ...

Religion is a VERY hot topic around here, and I could see something like this coming a mile away when I read Easy Mac's post. That being said, back to the (religious) action ...

[Pumpy Tudors]

Yep, people sure do love dangling the carrot around here.

[Calis]

Did the title of this look like God Hates Faqs to anyone else?

Thought that was a bit of waste of God's time to take a stand against that. I'm glad I was wrong.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Yep, people sure do love dangling the carrot around here.

With so much classic UIC coming from these kinds of threads, can you blame them?

[Coffee Warlord]

God hates faxes? Me too!

Especially faxes that I have to retrieve when wearing shoes. That's just wrong, man.

[Buccaneer]

Old news. We had this exact same discussion (about the godhatefaggots sign and website) a while ago. Why rehash it if only to troll for flames?

[EagleFan]

Kirby Puckett?

[Fonzie]

I hear the Cardinals hired Dennis Green.

[Tigercat]

I think God smites(sp?) so many of us on a daily basis that only one conclusion can be made:

God hates all people equally.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Old news. We had this exact same discussion (about the godhatefaggots sign and website) a while ago. Why rehash it if only to troll for flames?

Because either I had no idea it existed or because I felt like it. I fall into the #1 camp, so what is your reason for trolling?

I'm sorry something disturbed me and I thought I'd pass along what I saw as ignorance in society. I felt like showing my disgust in something. PLease excuse me for not conforming to your views and not strictly talking about the need to not micromanage in a football sim

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

I hear the Cardinals hired Dennis Green.

does that make him the Pope?

[McSweeny]

Originally Posted by Cringer

looking at what i said, i will amend it. the religion itself is not the problem, it is usually very good in its meaning and teachings (even if i disagree with somethings, like i am ok with homosexuals). It is the people who follow that religion, and twist things to thier liking, or only take parts of it here and there and throw the rest out and think they are still going to heaven while i am not, that i think are bullshit.

someone famous said something along these lines:

"The problem isn't communism, it's the communists just as the problem isn't with christianity, it's the christians"

not sure who, but i'm sure someone around here does...

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Fritz

dola. Can someone clarify the shoes part. THIS IS IMPORTANT

There is no shoe. You get golden sandals and play a harp all day.

[tucker342]

They protested in Iowa City last year. Guess what their website is named:

hxxp://www.godhatesfags.com

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Because either I had no idea it existed or because I felt like it. I fall into the #1 camp, so what is your reason for trolling?

I'm sorry something disturbed me and I thought I'd pass along what I saw as ignorance in society. I felt like showing my disgust in something. PLease excuse me for not conforming to your views and not strictly talking about the need to not micromanage in a football simhttp://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/f...s/rolleyes.gif

Because of your personal life, you (and a few others) only see one side and refuse to even attempt to understand what Scriptures say about issues such as this. Folks like revrew, SkyDog, Bubba, nfg22 and myself can talk until we're blue in the face but you and some others will still bring up issues such as this (and condemn or namecall all believers) as if you had all of us on ignore. What revrew said earlier is correct but that won't stop you and others from hating us for what we believe.

[Easy Mac]

what did I say other than the original post that was even inflammatory of religion. I was even going to post an agreement to Bubba Wheels' first post that basically says "hate the sin, not the person."

I never even mentioned religion. Someone has a chip on their shoulder. I said these protestors and their teaching children hate is wrong. Nothing more.

[Tigercat]

Besides, even condemning homosexuality is not a universal religious or even christian belief. You can argue that the bible perhaps makes comments against homosexuality, but there are arguments out there that are equally persuasive that the statements in the bible are misinterpreted or ambiguous.

Believing that homosexuality is a sin(and to possibly develop hatefull language towards others because of it) is an individual denomination and/or person's decision. I think Easy and most other people realize that.

[SFL Cat]

Just FYI

From the Law of Moses in Leviticus 20:12

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be ut to death. Their blood-guiltiness is upon them...if there is a man who lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death; you shall also kill the animal. If there is a woman who approaches any animal to mate with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

Apostle Paul's Letter to the Christians in Rome; Chapter 1; verse 18-32

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they becaume futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for the image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them. For they exchanged thetruth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather thant the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire towards one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own bodies the due penalty of their error.

And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, dispobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustwoerthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Althought Jesus' blood sacrifice redeems those who believe in Him from all their sins, it is NOT a license to embrace wickedness.

Romans 6:1-4...6-7

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been batized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? There we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life...knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin.

[Easy Mac]

I see the scripture and raise you a:

Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Ye shall eat no manner of fat, of ox, or of sheep, or of goat. And the fat of the beast that dieth of itself, and the fat of that which is torn with beasts, may be used in any other use: but ye shall in no wise eat of it. For whosoever eateth the fat of the beast, of which men offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, even the soul that eateth it shall be cut off from his people. Ye shall eat no manner of blood, whether it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings. Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people. (Leviticus 7:23 -27).

I'm not promoting it or defending it, but there are many damnable things that people do everyday.

[Solecismic]

Having read the biblical argument against homosexuality, I'm not convinced it's considered all that bad. Certainly not worthy of the Big Ten of sins.

These people are definitely picking and choosing. Judging on their own when they should be leaving it up to some other power.

When these hypocrites start picketing divorce courts (a lot of coveting of neighbors and such) and razor companies (the same scripture that admonishes homosexuality apparently considers shaving sideburns an abomination), I'll listen.

The problem I have with religion in general goes back to Fritz's original point; it is rational to tell your seven-year-old daughter that her god hates fags, if that's what you genuinely believe.

[SFL Cat]

Indeed...which is why without Christ's sacrifice we don't have a snowball's chance of escaping God's wrath.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Because of your personal life, you (and a few others) only see one side and refuse to even attempt to understand what Scriptures say about issues such as this.

I sorry, but your comment is just as completely closed minded as what your suggest of him and others.

You may be correct that some people don't or aren't willing to read and try to understand what the scriptures say, I won't argue that point. but what you're perhaps ignoring or simply not understanding is that for many of those others, the scriptures are no more than an interesting fiction. And frankly, speaking for myself, trying to apply fiction as a guiding source to my reality is truly a fools errand.

Perhaps you too need to stop and honestly try and understand the other side of the discussion. Where your belief has a basis in that text, my beliefs are not based on such things. I CANNOT take what the scriptures say as having a real bearing on my life because to me, those scriptures are no more than ink on paper, they have no value beyond whatever my perceptions of those words become. Its not that I don't WANT to, its that based on my upringing and current belief system, the scriptures are simply a collection of neat stories. Nothing more.

This is where the split in opinions and this discussion stem from. Its not that one side is right and the other wrong, and its not that one side just doesn't get it, either way. Its the fact that believers have faith that those stories actually mean something, and for them its an important something and cannot be dismissed or disregarded. however for myself and many others, those stories hold no weight, so when you try and spout scripture to us, we look at you like your an idiot and think "dude, why are you telling me a fairy tale, when I'm trying to discuss reality with you?"

Does this help you see the "why" behind the constant disagreement?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I'm not promoting it or defending it, but there are many damnable things that people do everyday.

Not the devout Orthodox Jews - of whom the Mosaic Laws, such as this, still applies - because it was to them it was written for.

But to go along with your comment, are you saying then that what Paul wrote to the Romans are "damnable things"?

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Indeed...which is why without Christ's sacrifice we don't have a snowball's chance of escaping God's wrath.

I concur (in my limited religious leaning ways).

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

From the Law of Moses in Leviticus 20:12

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be ut to death. Their blood-guiltiness is upon them...if there is a man who lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death; you shall also kill the animal. If there is a woman who approaches any animal to mate with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

As far as I remember my bible the correct passageis "If a man also lie with mankind..." Which is one of those ambiguous statements of the bible i was alluding to. It should be noted, that in this part of Leviticus, God codemns all "Sex" (Again if we are to assume thats what he is codemning.) outside of marriage through tons of examples(all of which are clearer than the mankind example). So if we are to use this as an example of the Judao-Christian God standing against homosexuality it is important to note he is standing equally against all sex outside of marriage.

And by the way, besides the Ten Commandments, should any religious that holds the Bible as the word of God take every passage in the Old Testament as the absolute word of God? The Old Testament is written in a style which importance was meant to be, in the jewish tradition, to tell us of God's covanent(s) with us. It was never in the details, besides the ten commandments. If people are going to go rule for rule out of the old testiment, there are some real doosey and screwed up rules in there they are going to have to follow.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Not the devout Orthodox Jews - of whom the Mosaic Laws, such as this, still applies - because it was to them it was written for.

But to go along with your comment, are you saying then that what Paul wrote to the Romans are "damnable things"?

I don't put much faith in things not said/delivered by Jesus... granted, I understand if you take the Bible as a whole work... but to me, this isn't Jesus's message. I can understand someone taking it as a whole work of God, but seeing things throughout the world, I don't trust man in interpreting God's world vision.

That being said, I'm also not in a point in my life where I can say "Jesus is the son of God." He was a great man and had an amazing message, and I'd like to believe it true... but I'm not there. I don't begrudge people for believing it, but I can't.

[Chubby]

Seems the bible thumpers are out in full force again, big surprise...

I agree with Jim's post.