Werewolf XCVII - Labyrinth II (GAME OVER - COMMONERS WIN!) - Page 20

Chief Rum · 06-26-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

why do you still feel we want to avoid the brutal? we have a commanding lead as far as # of players. We should get the wolf that we know for 100% right now.

Because if Render didn't protect me last night, he can protect me tonight. But if we kill the brutal, the brutal almost certainly takes me with him.

Of course, we'll probably lynch one of the two remaining question marks (Tyrith or nfg), and that would clear the need for a scan anyway.

But, regardless, if we kill the brutal (assumed to be JAG), 100% certain you lose me AND you still won't know which of nfg and Tyrith is the wolf.

So I figure, take out nfg or Tyrith, so we can figure that out. If I also end up living because of it, great, one more villager for a day, and even if it's not needed, I'll throw a scan out there and hope I get a lucky roll for once.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

Vote JAG

At some point the brutal needs to go. That point is today, we are to the point where we don't need scans so there is no point in trying to beat around the bush here and save a seer.

If the argument is that we don't need scans, why does it matter which order we do it?

Danny · 06-26-2009, 12:00 PM

It probably doesn't because I think we lynch Tyrith right after NFG even if NFG is the wolf.

Chief Rum · 06-26-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

Vote JAG

At some point the brutal needs to go. That point is today, we are to the point where we don't need scans so there is no point in trying to beat around the bush here and save a seer.

Why vote the brutal, forcing the loss of a villager as well, and then have to return tomorrow still with the question of nfg/Tyrith to figure out?

Why not kill one of the latter two, don't lose a villager for another day, and figure out the last nagging qolf question left to us?

Chief Rum · 06-26-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

It probably doesn't because I think we lynch Tyrith right after NFG even if NFG is the wolf.

Why would we lynch Tyrith instead of a wolf in JAG in that situation?

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

It probably doesn't because I think we lynch Tyrith right after NFG even if NFG is the wolf.

huh?

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 12:03 PM

Oh I guess that makes sense -- we don't know what Loki's win condition is.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Why would we lynch Tyrith instead of a wolf in JAG in that situation?

What I mean is if we lynch Jag now then we follow by lynching NFG and Tyrith, even if NFG is a wolf. of course we don't lynch Loki over a wolf.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 12:04 PM

My point was is lynching Jag is fine because we don't need another scan really. I will go with a lynch of Jag or NFG today.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

My point was is lynching Jag is fine because we don't need another scan really. I will go with a lynch of Jag or NFG today.

This seems like you're saying we're just going to win anyway no matter what. While that may be true, I think it would be a huge blunder if we get sloppy and lose here. I don't know what all can happen, but I think we should be thinking this through.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 12:08 PM

Not to say that I'm sold on an nfg vote -- I just think there's never a case where we don't need a scan. And maybe JAG's not even the brutal -- maybe he revealed first because he was furthest from the center at the time, or maybe he just happened to be online when Autumn revealed and chose his spot.

I just don't like the "we're going to win anyway" argument, since if you feel that way, you really don't care WHAT we do.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 12:13 PM

You're doing a lot of analyzing for not winning with us

. It's not that I don't care, i just don't think there will end up being a difference with either direction that we go. And you're right, while it's likely Jag is the brutal, it is not guaranteed.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 12:14 PM

That said, I don't think the wolves really know who is closest to center since Lathum died. I know I have no real clue how close the center I am.

RendeR · 06-26-2009, 12:16 PM

I lie about my scans to try and confuse people. Safest way to go.

Unfortunately I did not stop anything last night, nor saw anyone around my intended protect-ee.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

You're doing a lot of analyzing for not winning with us

. It's not that I don't care, i just don't think there will end up being a difference with either direction that we go. And you're right, while it's likely Jag is the brutal, it is not guaranteed.

I do win with you guys -- if the wolves win, there's no way I can win. So I hope my analysis is taken as well-intentioned, since I need you guys to beat the wolves.

You're probably right that they don't know for sure. But they might have a decent guess, based on who has wasted more time running into dead ends and such.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 12:32 PM

Anyone know the villager to wolf ratio? How many do we have left, because after will kill JAG and Tyrinth and...eeek even me...will we have enough to possibly evade that minotaur. Even though he is friendly now, he wont be when we get near middle.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

It probably doesn't because I think we lynch Tyrith right after NFG even if NFG is the wolf.

I do understand your reasoning...under one condition..If I am not scanned, then I would kill me as I could have turned wolf and you did not know. I am Loki. The question is...which way did I turn. I would totally understand if you had to kill me to find out.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 12:36 PM

II. dubb93 - Phoenix
III. RendeR - Paladin
IX. hoopsguy - Telepath
X. lerriuqs - Theo
XI. Danny - Telepath
XII. Barkeep49 - Jekyl
XIII. Chief Rum - Private Eye
XVIII. DaddyTorgo Telepath

Villagers left, figure if the wolves kill another three of us (should be the most) that leaves 5 of us to race towards the center. If we hit on the two wolves without missing that leaves 6 of us.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 12:38 PM

Scan or not, Loki dies once the wolves are done. Even if you scanned as not a wolf, we don't know what additional choices would present themselves possibly. As far as I am concerned once Loki is gone we then lynch NTNdeacon as he is a neutral role as well. Then after that we just lynch Pass to our failure.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Scan or not, Loki dies once the wolves are done. Even if you scanned as not a wolf, we don't know what additional choices would present themselves possibly. As far as I am concerned once Loki is gone we then lynch NTNdeacon as he is a neutral role as well. Then after that we just lynch Pass to our failure.

A couple problems:

1. From asking The Jackal, lynches will stop after the wolves are gone. Maybe he didn't think about neutral players, so we might want to ask him again.

2. I can't be lynched.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 12:44 PM

Im against your idea of lynching me even if im good. That seems pointless..I think your a little paranoid.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

A couple problems:

1. From asking The Jackal, lynches will stop after the wolves are gone. Maybe he didn't think about neutral players, so we might want to ask him again.

2. I can't be lynched.

1. If this is the case then that changes things.

2. Exactly, I was assuming we had to lynch somebody even once the wolves were gone and the point of lynching you is that it results in nothing and no villagers die.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfg22

Im against your idea of lynching me even if im good. That seems pointless..I think your a little paranoid.

I would be against lynching you if I was you also

.

But we will be lynching Loki once the wolves are gone unless it is made known that all the wolves are gone and we have earned that minor victory.

lerriuqs · 06-26-2009, 12:51 PM

I like starting with nfg - worst case is that we have to lynch all three of them. Best case, we're done lynching on Monday and simply need to find the centre before the Minotaur gets the rest of us.

dubb93 · 06-26-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Because if Render didn't protect me last night, he can protect me tonight. But if we kill the brutal, the brutal almost certainly takes me with him.

Of course, we'll probably lynch one of the two remaining question marks (Tyrith or nfg), and that would clear the need for a scan anyway.

But, regardless, if we kill the brutal (assumed to be JAG), 100% certain you lose me AND you still won't know which of nfg and Tyrith is the wolf.

So I figure, take out nfg or Tyrith, so we can figure that out. If I also end up living because of it, great, one more villager for a day, and even if it's not needed, I'll throw a scan out there and hope I get a lucky roll for once.

If we lynch NFG or Tyrith we won't need your scan anyway. Sorry CR, you are useless to us at this point. We go JAG you get brutaled. We go elsewhere and we are answering the only question ourselves that your scan could have answered. Welcome to uselessville. Population=your scans.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 12:57 PM

Thanks! Start with me..I suppose even when I am a villager that leaves you guys with five anyways...

DaddyTorgo · 06-26-2009, 01:01 PM

we've known JAG was a wolf for what...2 days now? how about we lynch him already and stop being cute!!!! i was all for giving him a 1-day reprieve based on the arguments laid out there yesterday, but i'm done with that now

VOTE LYNCH JAG!!!!!!

Danny · 06-26-2009, 01:05 PM

I'm actually not convinced Dubb isn't a wolf Phoenix

Unvote nfg
Vote Dubb

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

I'm actually not convinced Dubb isn't a wolf Phoenix

Unvote nfg
Vote Dubb

Seriously? It's listed in good roles.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Seriously? It's listed in good roles.

Hmm, trying to defend Dubb here? Maybe you are with him

Unvote Dubb
Vote Pass

Chief Rum · 06-26-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

If we lynch NFG or Tyrith we won't need your scan anyway. Sorry CR, you are useless to us at this point. We go JAG you get brutaled. We go elsewhere and we are answering the only question ourselves that your scan could have answered. Welcome to uselessville. Population=your scans.

No, I already know my scans will end up being of no value at this point. What I am questioning is why we would choose the path that will get us two villagers killed today (regardless of those villagers' roles) and still leave us with a wolf question to resolve, when we can choose to go the less "villager-costly" route and resolve the only question left to us with respect to allegiance?

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Hmm, trying to defend Dubb here? Maybe you are with him

Unvote Dubb
Vote Pass

Someone's gone a little loco.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 01:10 PM

loco? Very similar to loki, are you trying to give us a hint here?

Chief Rum · 06-26-2009, 01:10 PM

lol at Danny.

I think you're overthinking this one.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

loco? Very similar to loki, are you trying to give us a hint here?

Sure. I am quite positive that, yes, someone is loki.

DaddyTorgo · 06-26-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No, I already know my scans will end up being of no value at this point. What I am questioning is why we would choose the path that will get us two villagers killed today (regardless of those villagers' roles) and still leave us with a wolf question to resolve, when we can choose to go the less "villager-costly" route and resolve the only question left to us with respect to allegiance?

because either way we're going to net-out the same. might as well get rid of what we suspect is the brutal while we have more villagers to absorb it

Danny · 06-26-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Sure. I am quite positive that, yes, someone is loki.

First someone is loco and now someone is loki? You need to get your story straight and stop backtracking!

DaddyTorgo · 06-26-2009, 01:12 PM

i think danny's just having fun...i hope.

Passacaglia · 06-26-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

First someone is loco and now someone is loki? You need to get your story straight and stop backtracking!

I was just hinting the first time. My story is as straight as this labyrinth.

Danny · 06-26-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

because either way we're going to net-out the same. might as well get rid of what we suspect is the brutal while we have more villagers to absorb it

In seriousness, I think I actually agree with this. If we wait on the brutal it is more likely he takes out someone close to the center. Once I get bored with my playing around my vote will probably be on Jag, though I am ok with nfg as well.

lerriuqs · 06-26-2009, 01:16 PM

DT has convinced me...

VOTE JAG

Danny · 06-26-2009, 01:21 PM

We need more cool items in games like there were in Abe's dungeon game. If I run a game again at some point I may go with a basic WW game with lots of unique and interesting items that be acquired and used.

Chief Rum · 06-26-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

because either way we're going to net-out the same. might as well get rid of what we suspect is the brutal while we have more villagers to absorb it

I don't know why we would want to kill villagers sooner. Who knws what tricks are in this labyrinth? The person that the brutal takes tonight might be a move away from some teleport straight to the center.

Think of villager-days as a unit, being every day a villager is alive is a villager-day unit to benefit the village. By killing the brutal today, you're essentially saying we should go with X villager-day units instead of X villager-day units +1.

It doesn't make a big difference, sure. How likely is that one day to produce something tangible for the village? Not likely. But why pick the option that removes any value from it right away? At least if we go the other route (nfg/Tyrith), a question is being answered and we might also get something of value from that villager who will eventually be killed by the brutal.

We kill the brutal today, we don't get anything more of value from that villager, and the nfg/Trytih thing will still need another day to figure out.

The Jackal · 06-26-2009, 01:29 PM

Danny found the room of death!

Danny was a Telepath!

Danny · 06-26-2009, 01:30 PM

HAHAHA

Danny · 06-26-2009, 01:34 PM

Good luck guys

dubb93 · 06-26-2009, 01:34 PM

congrats Danny. Epic achievement.

DaddyTorgo · 06-26-2009, 01:34 PM

lol wait is that real? or a joke?

lerriuqs · 06-26-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

lol wait is that real? or a joke?

He's listed as dead on page 1.

nfg22 · 06-26-2009, 01:36 PM

OK...serious? NO!!!!!!!! We cant kill JAG till we kill the other wolf. We cant lose another villager now.

UNVOTE JAG
VOTE TYRITH

06-26-2009, 12:16 PM	#964
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	I lie about my scans to try and confuse people. Safest way to go. Unfortunately I did not stop anything last night, nor saw anyone around my intended protect-ee. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

06-26-2009, 01:01 PM	#977
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	we've known JAG was a wolf for what...2 days now? how about we lynch him already and stop being cute!!!! i was all for giving him a 1-day reprieve based on the arguments laid out there yesterday, but i'm done with that now VOTE LYNCH JAG!!!!!! __________________ If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9

06-26-2009, 01:10 PM	#984
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	lol at Danny. I think you're overthinking this one. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

06-26-2009, 01:12 PM	#988
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	i think danny's just having fun...i hope. __________________ If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9

06-26-2009, 01:34 PM	#998
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	lol wait is that real? or a joke? __________________ If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9

06-26-2009, 12:00 PM	#953
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	It probably doesn't because I think we lynch Tyrith right after NFG even if NFG is the wolf.

06-26-2009, 12:03 PM	#957
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Oh I guess that makes sense -- we don't know what Loki's win condition is.

06-26-2009, 12:04 PM	#959
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	My point was is lynching Jag is fine because we don't need another scan really. I will go with a lynch of Jag or NFG today.

06-26-2009, 12:08 PM	#961
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Not to say that I'm sold on an nfg vote -- I just think there's never a case where we don't need a scan. And maybe JAG's not even the brutal -- maybe he revealed first because he was furthest from the center at the time, or maybe he just happened to be online when Autumn revealed and chose his spot. I just don't like the "we're going to win anyway" argument, since if you feel that way, you really don't care WHAT we do.

06-26-2009, 12:13 PM	#962
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	You're doing a lot of analyzing for not winning with us . It's not that I don't care, i just don't think there will end up being a difference with either direction that we go. And you're right, while it's likely Jag is the brutal, it is not guaranteed.

06-26-2009, 12:14 PM	#963
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	That said, I don't think the wolves really know who is closest to center since Lathum died. I know I have no real clue how close the center I am.

06-26-2009, 12:32 PM	#966
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	Anyone know the villager to wolf ratio? How many do we have left, because after will kill JAG and Tyrinth and...eeek even me...will we have enough to possibly evade that minotaur. Even though he is friendly now, he wont be when we get near middle.

06-26-2009, 12:36 PM	#968
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	II. dubb93 - Phoenix III. RendeR - Paladin IX. hoopsguy - Telepath X. lerriuqs - Theo XI. Danny - Telepath XII. Barkeep49 - Jekyl XIII. Chief Rum - Private Eye XVIII. DaddyTorgo Telepath Villagers left, figure if the wolves kill another three of us (should be the most) that leaves 5 of us to race towards the center. If we hit on the two wolves without missing that leaves 6 of us.

06-26-2009, 12:38 PM	#969
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Scan or not, Loki dies once the wolves are done. Even if you scanned as not a wolf, we don't know what additional choices would present themselves possibly. As far as I am concerned once Loki is gone we then lynch NTNdeacon as he is a neutral role as well. Then after that we just lynch Pass to our failure.

06-26-2009, 12:44 PM	#971
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	Im against your idea of lynching me even if im good. That seems pointless..I think your a little paranoid.

06-26-2009, 12:51 PM	#974
lerriuqs High School Varsity Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Saskatchewan	I like starting with nfg - worst case is that we have to lynch all three of them. Best case, we're done lynching on Monday and simply need to find the centre before the Minotaur gets the rest of us.

06-26-2009, 12:57 PM	#976
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	Thanks! Start with me..I suppose even when I am a villager that leaves you guys with five anyways...

06-26-2009, 01:05 PM	#978
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	I'm actually not convinced Dubb isn't a wolf Phoenix Unvote nfg Vote Dubb

06-26-2009, 01:10 PM	#983
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	loco? Very similar to loki, are you trying to give us a hint here?

06-26-2009, 01:16 PM	#991
lerriuqs High School Varsity Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Saskatchewan	DT has convinced me... VOTE JAG

06-26-2009, 01:21 PM	#992
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	We need more cool items in games like there were in Abe's dungeon game. If I run a game again at some point I may go with a basic WW game with lots of unique and interesting items that be acquired and used.

06-26-2009, 01:29 PM	#994
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Danny found the room of death! Danny was a Telepath!

06-26-2009, 01:30 PM	#995
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	HAHAHA

06-26-2009, 01:34 PM	#996
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Good luck guys

06-26-2009, 01:36 PM	#1000
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	OK...serious? NO!!!!!!!! We cant kill JAG till we kill the other wolf. We cant lose another villager now. UNVOTE JAG VOTE TYRITH

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