Taking a break ...goodbye.

[Darkiller]

I'm out of here for a while.
I haven't been very active the last couple of weeks and I doubt that I'll be any more in the next few weeks.

I can't bear the fact that america went bypassing the UN.

This makes USA a terrorist country, acting "in its own right" without the approval of the rest of the world and I have this thing stuck at the back of my throat if you see what I mean.

Because one has to understand this : even for the 2 main countries that support the war_they're already just a few_ (England, Spain), in both regions ONLY the prime minister is a supporter.
People in Spain and people in England are ALL against war.

Also, I think we now have the confirmation that G.Bush jr is a psychotic, dangerous man.
a tremendously dangerous foolish person.
This war makes absolutely no sense at all since contrary to 1990, Irak did not invade anybody . And what about those massive weapons and other stuff they have ?? sure, that needs to be taken off of them but that could have been done anytime between 1990 and 2003.
Why now specifically then ? why using military forces and military actions when the UN inspectors were clearly doing their jobs and WOULD HAVE taken everything away from S.Hussein and Irak.

the bottom line is : no matter what, Bush had just about every intentions to go to war, to justifie his 4-years as president of the USA by that single "feat".
this guy is a bastard.

As for his cock sucking buddy : Donald Rumsfeld, I don't know if I've seen a more hypocryte happy-of-himself kind of politician in years. He's a true dick.

Shame on Bush for declaring a useless war, Shame on the Bush administration for bypassing the UN and going against what the 20th century and the two world wars worked for : a community of peaceful countries that would act together, or not.
and finally, shame on the american for supporting that war, and also, being so stubborn and narrow-minded.

In those conditions, I have no envy nor the intention of coming out here on this forum to read threads about over-egocentric Pro war members.
I'll be back when I'll be back, to talk about fooball. For the time being, I'm sick of all this shit.

[Bee]

I can't bear the fact that america went bypassing the UN.

This makes USA a terrorist country, acting "in its own right" without the approval of the rest of the world

Kinda like France in West Africa? or like Russia in Chechnya?

[heybrad]

Stop using logic. We're the bad guys, remember.

[RonnieDobbs]

Sorry to hear you're leaving, read your posts for a while. Hope to see you back soon, but can't agree with anything you've written. Sorry.

[Marmel]

The French.....can't live with 'em........Mmmmmm Croissants.

[NevStar]

I've been here mostly as a lurker since FOF2. I've never taken part in a political discussion, mostly because I think arguing on the internet solves nothing & almost always deteriorates into childish flaming. Take this thread, for example.

As pointless and silly as leaving with a "I hate America, so I'm not posting on an American football message board anymore" message is, I feel this deserves a response.

This pathetic display disgusts me.

I can't bear the fact that america went bypassing the UN.

This makes USA a terrorist country, acting "in its own right" without the approval of the rest of the world and I have this thing stuck at the back of my throat if you see what I mean.

1) How many U.N. resolutions have been made since 1991 saying that if Iraq didn't destroy weapons/allow full access to inspectors/stop being total asshats that "all means necessary" would be applied?

2) Did the French get U.N. approval before moving into the Ivory Coast? Didn't think so.

As for his cock sucking buddy : Donald Rumsfeld, I don't know if I've seen a more hypocryte happy-of-himself kind of politician in years. He's a true dick.

Yeah, that's great. Bye darkiller, take your ball & go home.

P.S. Chirac's a fag.

[Marmel]

*applause for Nev*

[Anrhydeddu]

You have to forgive the French these days, their precious Iraqi oil might be threatened temporarily and they might have to pay a little more for petrol to run their little scooters.

[heybrad]

Standing O for Nevstar!!!

[robbgmaier]

Ouch, and here I tell people this board is boring

[jefflackey]

Oh. The UN that watched a million people get hacked to death in Rwanda, and when specifically asked, refused to act. The UN that has Lybia heading up the human rights commission. France, who said they would veto anything, who is opposing any action to disarm Iraq because they have their fingerprints on the MWDs (and as soon as they realized we were going in, started making excuses for what we would find that has France's name on it.)

Yeah, Blix was really going to find all the weapons. He was making excuses left and right and intentionally leaving things out. You do know that Blix is in the job because Saddaam demanded that he be the leader of the inspection team, right? They weren't supposed to "find" things - they were supposed to follow the South Africa model where the nation voluntarily showed all of the weapons and the inspectors oversaw the destruction. Yeah, Saddaam was really going to do that (after refusing to for a dozen years.)

Had the security council actually stood by their ground and told Saddaam what they said in 1441, they meant - that he either gives everything up and dis-arms or we go in and do it for him, there MIGHT have been a chance this madman would have realized that there was no way out and doen something substantive. OTOH, when he was told to dis-arm and/or leave the country or we would go in in 48 hours, he still refused, so I doubt you would ever see him voluntarily disarming.

I wished I lived in a world where the UN actually was something more than a bunch of folks looking out 100% for their own self interests. But we don't. I wish Saddaam would give up his biological and chemical weapons and his nuclear weapon program. But he won't. And a guy who twice tried to assasinate US presidents, who harbors terrorists and terrorist training camps (you have heard about and seen the pictures of the camp outside of Bagdad with the airliner fuselages, where terrorists train to take over an airliner?), and who has all of the dangerous weapons he has, cannot be allowed to stay in power. Not to even mention the couple of hundred thousand men, women and children he put in trains and trucks and drove away from their homes and killed in masse, then razed their towns to the ground. Or the photos and videos of the men, women, and children in the town streets who he poured chemical weapons on and killed because they were the wrong culture. But yeah, it's just a shame we didn't get France's permission, even though they have billions of dollars of business at risk.

Sheesh, the fairly land world some people live in.

[Bee]

Has anyone gotten UN approval other than the US for military actions? I don't think so.

Has any other countries gotten the approval of "the rest of the world" before taking military action? I don't think so.

[Fritz]

Fair enough Darkiller,

See you when football is on your mind again.

[Bee]

I don't blame DK. The misinformation in France right now is so thick you can't walk through it.

[Kodos]

Calling the U.S. a terrorist country is a handy way to lose all credibility instantly. Au revoir.

[Buzzbee]

And what about those massive weapons and other stuff they have ?? sure, that needs to be taken off of them but that could have been done anytime between 1990 and 2003.

And here is the flaw in your logic. If it was so simple, then why wasn't it done? Why WERE the UN inspectors pulled out of Iraq several years ago instead of continuing inspections and destroying these weopons? Hmmm. Let's see, maybe it's because Saddam was playing games, wasn't cooperating, wasn't doing what HE AGREED to do after 1991. Hmmmm. Maybe it's because Saddam, after being so uncooperative that the UN inspectors were pulled out, continued with research and construction of weapons of mass destruction. Hmmmm.

I HAD a lot of respect for you Darkiller. I don't anymore. Do you think that 12 YEARS of diplomacy and second chances wasn't long enough? How long do we have to wait? Until Saddam uses a weapon against the French? Hmmm. Now that I think about it, maybe that isn't such a bad idea. Oh, wait. That wouldn't happen, the French are in bed with Saddam.

Sorry for the venemous response. I have purposefully stayed away from all the war threads because I imagine them to be "yes we should vs. no we shouldn't" and not really accomplishing anything or changing anyone's mind. Kinda like debates on abortion. However, DK's comments struck a nerve and I felt obliged to respond. I'm tempted to resort to juvenile name calling, but I'm old enough and hopefully mature enough to refrain.

[clintl]

Originally posted by Bee
or like Russia in Chechnya?

Chechnya is part of Russia. That is like saying that if Idaho separatists started bombing hotels in Seattle, the US should have to get UN approval. Or the UK needs UN approval to deal with the IRA. Or Spain needs UN approval to deal with ETA. All those situations are internal affairs.

[CamEdwards]

Bye Darkiller. I hope you find peace with your decision.

P.S.

Brock Sheriff has publicly come out in support of our troops. Just thought you should know.

[Tarkus]

Man, the French really do hate us.

Tarkus

P.S. That post immediately goes into my list of the ten dumbest posts ever on FOFC.

[Bee]

Originally posted by clintl
Chechnya is part of Russia. That is like saying that if Idaho separatists started bombing hotels in Seattle, the US should have to get UN approval. Or the UK needs UN approval to deal with the IRA. Or Spain needs UN approval to deal with ETA. All those situations are internal affairs.

uhh...wrong.

Chechnya is a country not a state. They declared independence in 1991 when the USSR collapsed.

If you prefer, use any of the other military actions taken in the last 60 years...the only country to get UN approval for any war has been the US.

[Qwikshot]

Didn't the French detonate a nuclear weapon in the Pacific a few years ago against the approval of the U.N.?

[CamEdwards]

UPI had a great editorial the other day about the French and the 37 military actions it's taken without UN approval since 1960.

Here's the link

[RendeR]

I've read so many anti-war, anti-USA diatribes that I'm sick to death of them.

We gave the man a dozen years to comply, his first and most obvious ploy was to tell the UN to go fuck themselves and not allow instpectors in for 10 of those years. when pressure was again applied to make him comply, he argued until the last chance and then said "sure, but only under our rules" which is bullshit.

Blix and his teams of inspectors found only what the Iraqi government wanted them to find, enough, they hoped, to string along the inspections for an indefinite time. Iraq has NEVER had any intention of complying with the UN's wishes, NONE, please get that idiotic fucking idea out of your feeble minds.

Fuck that. We're done playing his little pissing match. He had years to turn his nation into an upstanding member of the world community, and the only thing thats going to make a real change is this war.

So if you want to be like france and all the anti-war voices out there and go bury your head in the sand, go, be well. I hope you have a good life.

I also hope you kiss the ass of every man and woman who dealt with this situation and made the world a place where you could BE that pathetic.

I don't blame anyone directly for their views. I'm not even that upset at DK, although his wording really pissed me off. I don't even disagree with him about rumsfeld and Bush, they are really big losers, talk about figureheads with too many hands up their asses....but I digress.

The world doesn't like America, but when someone cries for help, who do they cry to? America. So frankly, When America decides it needs to deal with something for ITS OWN safety in the future. The world can bloody well suck it. We will talk to the UN we played the games with the UN for too long. Fuck the bastards who are too worried about their own asses to stand up for what needs to be done.

I don't LIKE war, and I'm even more pissed at Hussein for forcing the issue. He should have been killed in 1991 for the shit he pulled back then. half measures and political flatulance have had their time.

God Bless America and the idiots we elect to run her. Its not a perfect world, but its going to be a safer one when we're done.

[Havok]

It baffles me how people think sometimes. From his statments alone you can tell how badly he's been brainwashed.

You might be a nice guy in person but your beliefs and logic are way off base. I could pick apart your post like alot of these other guys have but im to lazy.

P.S. great posts Nevstar,Bee and Jeff

[John Galt]

DK, sorry to see you go.

I appreciate your reaction to the environment on this board and hope leaving allows you to release the anger you feel. At least there are some of us here who agree with you in spirit (even if we might disagree with a few of your above points). Hope to see you again soon.

[Tarkus]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
UPI had a great editorial the other day about the French and the 37 military actions it's taken without UN approval since 1960.

Here's the link

Isn't there some saying about people who live is glass houses?

Tarkus

[SegRat]

Protest the war by not visiting this board!!! Makes a whole lot of sense. Another member from the old days that now wont be missed.

[Cowtown]

Don't worry guys the French and DK will be on our side again once we are attacked by illegal weapons and/or complete our operations and discover illegal weapons.

I vote we use every illegal weapon we find in Iraq on France.

Have you bought your Ozarka or Dasani brand water today even though Evian's price has dropped to 15 cents a gallon in America?

[bbor]

This is a football board?

[McSweeny]

hopfully all this bullshit will be resolved soon DK. Hope to see you back again soon.

[The Afoci]

DK must of thought we were attacking him, so he retreated from the board in fear... his computer is probably still on even.

[Radii]

People in all countries have very different opinions because of the way news is presented to them. In an ideal world the internet would be a wonderful tool where people from different countries could come together and understand, person to person, why and how they have the views that they do, without the news propaganda getting in the way.

Unfortunately, the reality of the internet is that it allows us to take a look at a screen name, or a location, and allows us to judge them quicker than ever and get to the flame and hatred faster than ever.

It's a shame to hear someone say that their honest opinion is that the US is a terrorist state. I'm from the US and, support this war or not, that pains me to read.

However, it makes me stop for a second and think about all of the things that the Americans on this board are saying about the French, and wonder how many French citizens are on the board and if and how much we've hurt them with our careless bandwagoning & mob mentality.


I have many friends from other nations, Australia being the primary one, because of a different online forum i participate in. "Bush is a psychotic, dangerous man" is not something I've only heard once. I disagree with the statement, but I certainly see that it is an opinion that many many people around the world hold.

I'm rambling and annoyed by the posts coming out of this board lately(I'm not leaving and I'm not judging anyone here), and I wish that we could sometimes(on BOTH sides) try to understand why others feel so differently.

It would be nice if Darkiller could be more civil when he expresses his opinions, and it would be nice if us americans could be a little more understanding that a lot of people around the world disagree with us.

Blah. This is one of those where I *should* delete, but I'm gonna hit Send and duck anyway.

[Tarkus]

Radii, I don't know. I'd say we're being pretty civil for a bunch of terrorists.

Tarkus

[bbor]

Originally posted by Marmel
The French.....can't live with 'em........Mmmmmm Croissants.

Marmel is the funnies guy on this board...at 2:11 E.S.T on thursday March 20th...2003...with the sun shining...me wearing an American eagle shirt....eating a turkey sandwich with mustard may lettuce...on a bun....with a spider crawling on my ceiling...and a dog peeing on my lawn.

[clintl]

Originally posted by Bee
uhh...wrong.

Chechnya is a country not a state. They declared independence in 1991 when the USSR collapsed.

If you prefer, use any of the other military actions taken in the last 60 years...the only country to get UN approval for any war has been the US.

And who, exactly, has recognized their independence? As far as I know, no one. A declaration means nothing on its own. And, in any case, the Chechnyans started that war by bombing hotels. According the UN charter, you don't need UN approval to fight back after you have been attacked.

[Bee]

Radii,

I have no problems with people expressing an anti-war opinion. But anyone who posts an opinion (pro or anti war) should have some basic understanding of what they are saying and at least some type of basis for their opinions. If someone comes here and says "I don't think we should be attacking Iraq because I don't think they weren't an immediate threat to the US. If they had WMDs for the past 12 years and couldn't attack the US, why would they be able to do so now?" That to me is an intelligent argument with some basis for the opinion. I might not agree with it, but it is a debatable point. What DK has posted and some of the other posts I've seen by those against the war have been laughable and have no basis in reality.

[RonnieDobbs]

Originally posted by Bee
Radii,

I have no problems with people expressing an anti-war opinion. But anyone who posts an opinion (pro or anti war) should have some basic understanding of what they are saying and at least some type of basis for their opinions. If someone comes here and says "I don't think we should be attacking Iraq because I don't think they weren't an immediate threat to the US. If they had WMDs for the past 12 years and couldn't attack the US, why would they be able to do so now?" That to me is an intelligent argument with some basis for the opinion. I might not agree with it, but it is a debatable point. What DK has posted and some of the other posts I've seen by those against the war have been laughable and have no basis in reality.

Exactly. The pro war argument has these people too, luckily not so much on this board. You know, the whole "turn Iraq into a parking lot" idea, intense hatred for Muslims, etc.

I honestly feel that the debate on this board, while getting a little hot from time to time, has been pretty even-keeled and enlightening. I attend a pretty prestigious school and you guys are the best debate I've had on this. Alright, I guess I just can't stand all the peaceniks, but still.

[Bee]

Originally posted by clintl
And who, exactly, has recognized their independence? As far as I know, no one. A declaration means nothing on its own. And, in any case, the Chechnyans started that war by bombing hotels. According the UN charter, you don't need UN approval to fight back after you have been attacked.

Like I said, if you don't like using Chechnya in my comparison use any other country you like. There are hundreds of examples over the history of the UN that should suffice that UN approval is generally not received before military actions. That is what this is about, not the atrocities commited by the Russians against the country of Chechnya.

[sachmo71]

Originally posted by Bee
I don't blame DK. The misinformation in France right now is so thick you can't walk through it.

If you want disinformation, you have to look no further than our great country.

[Marmel]

Originally posted by RonnieDobbs
You know, the whole "turn Iraq into a parking lot"

It is actually into a sheet of glass. but who's counting.

[Bee]

Originally posted by Marmel
It is actually into a sheet of glass. but who's counting.

Is that because there's a lot of sand in Iraq? or would they say the same thing if we were talking about a jungle in South America?

[Marmel]

Bee, I thought the saying was that if we dropped a nuke in the desert, the intense heat would turn the sand into a sheet of glass.

I doubt it actually would, but that is the saying I believe Ronnie was referring to when he said parking lot.

*shrug*

[Bee]

Originally posted by Marmel
Bee, I thought the saying was that if we dropped a nuke in the desert, the intense heat would turn the sand into a sheet of glass.

I doubt it actually would, but that is the saying I believe Ronnie was referring to when he said parking lot.

*shrug*

That's what I thought too, but I've heard the expression when discussing Venezuela and Cuba.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Im sorry to see you leave darkkiller for political reasons.
Wish you would stay and voice your opinions .

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Where are those Wigs when you need em .

[sabotai]

Hmm...if Chechnya is a independant country....then I should be able to find it on this map...but I can't...

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commonwealth/russia.94.jpg

[Killebrew]

See ya DK, I agree with much of what you say, but you had to have expected the response you got even if your original post had been on a more liberal board. At a time of "war" I think it's best to let the rah-rah folks be, that energy usually dissapates after the early stages of conflict. Let's hope it's short attack and the historic damage is not as great as many fear. As for the belief some have that the rest of the Earth has this thing all wrong and is being brainwashed, I can only say we all seem to be eating the media sheepfood that we want to feed on.

[Bee]

Originally posted by sabotai
Hmm...if Chechnya is a independant country....then I should be able to find it on this map...but I can't...

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commo.../russia.94.jpg

I guess since the Taliban weren't recognized as the government of Afghanistan, they weren't actually in charge when we attacked.

[Butter]

Originally posted by RonnieDobbs
I honestly feel that the debate on this board, while getting a little hot from time to time, has been pretty even-keeled and enlightening.

Alright, I guess I just can't stand all the peaceniks, but still.

Is this ironic sarcasm?

[CamEdwards]

I think debate is healthy. It's too bad one of our French friends has decided to surrender.. I mean retire.. from the board. It just means one less voice to argue the other side.