Werewolf LVIII: Clash of the Gods (GAME OVER)

[Neon_Chaos]

I will let you Titans and Olympians fight over this.

Jeez. I can't believe how worthless ArlingtonColt was this entire game.

[Neon_Chaos]

Do we know what St.Cronin did last night?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Telle or Anxiety would be the places I look. Likely Telle.

I agree on telle. But again, if I were the last wolf alive, and I have a majority of the votes on me, you can bet that iI am putting every last AP into keeping msyelf alive with my redirect vote ability and my own vote - all 5 AP get poured into Lathum, no question.

Which means I have no AP ;left over for a kill. AlanT says right in the opening rules that kills require AP which is why a BG needs a certain number of points to stop a high point kill.

No way I use a kill if I can keep myself alive, that's a bad play. In fact, I do pour all five of my AP into Lathum for self defense and other reasons I mention. So where did the kill come from? Obviously not me. So if you think I'm a wolf, then you beleive there are two titans left on teh bad side or for a bad play, I chose to send less than maximum votes of Lathum in order to take a flyer on a kill despite being the last wolf with a large number of votes on me.


-Abe

[Abe Sargent]

In fact, with six players remaining, two evil titans would have won the game.

Ergo, wee must be facing one. No way I'd not defend myself to teh max if Im the final wolf under teh gun. Ergo I'm Ares, as I have claimed all game.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaaargh

I hate all of you. I'm suspicious of all of you.

telle...did you learn anything from night actions?

[Neon_Chaos]

Telle, what did you learn about last night's actions?

[Neon_Chaos]

I have a feeling your medicine fucked up Raider's scans, Telle.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

In fact, with six players remaining, two evil titans would have won the game.

Ergo, wee must be facing one. No way I'd not defend myself to teh max if Im the final wolf under teh gun. Ergo I'm Ares, as I have claimed all game.

Actually that depends on which two were the Titans, and thus how many Olympians are left. Plus Poseidon's still alive.. and he has to be dead for the Titans to win.

And if I was a Titan, do you think my co-Titan would move the deadline up on Day 3 when I was tied for the lead in votes, not having any idea how many APs were on me?

[Abe Sargent]

Let me figure out this logic puzzle out loud.

CR ain't the bad titan, he was stoned and there was still a kill. He c ould be medusa or a good titan, but he apparently isn;t a bad one,

I'm not.

I know who cronin is and can vouch that his description mathced his reveal perfectly. Nothing beyond that, but I've witnessed his ability in action. Can anybody confirm that cronin performed an action on them on Night 6 or 5, when we had just one titan left?

That leaves DT, NC and telle who I never had first hand knowledge of who was who. RA vouched for some of them but I've seen wolf roles that scan as good before - I was one last game when I was Lucifer. Plus, RA proved very unreliable. I'm actually glad it was him that was killed or else we could have wasted a day voting him out.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Telle

Actually that depends on which two were the Titans, and thus how many Olympians are left. Plus Poseidon's still alive.. and he has to be dead for the Titans to win.

And if I was a Titan, do you think my co-Titan would move the deadline up on Day 3 when I was tied for the lead in votes, not having any idea how many APs were on me?

Forgot about the Poseidon - good call on that.

[Abe Sargent]

Oh and we don;t know WHO changed the sun.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I have a feeling your medicine fucked up Raider's scans, Telle.

Oh shit.. that would make sense. It was after he got sick the day he scanned me that his scans started getting f'd up.

[Abe Sargent]

Let's put it all back out. NC and DT, who clearad you, why shoul dwe beelive you. LEt's have everybody make their case right now.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Oh and we don;t know WHO changed the sun.

Nobody claimed it. And Hoops's wikipedia usage came up with a pretty good theory of it being Hyperion. And then Racer turned out to be Hyperion. So yeah we don't know for sure.. but I feel pretty confident about it.

[Abe Sargent]

Telle, give me your own case. Beyond the "Apollo Scanned Me" stuff, although you can include htat if you want, make your case as if aevery vote was one you.

[DaddyTorgo]

anxiety - I tend to believe you, if only because of telle's mentioning of bloodlust and cronin's verification of things
neon - claims to be achilles (another bodyguard type). only vouching is through Render (IIRC, correct me if wrong) and telle saying achilles is in the game
chief rum - was stoned. Claims he isn't medusa despite evidence to the contrary. Claims to be a good titan
cronin - I believe he's a beautiful chica. Likely aphrodite as he has claimed. Possibly medusa with a hat (tongue in cheek).
myself - I trust 100%
telle - scanned by RA. confirmed scanned by RA but with some weirdness early in the game.

I think what we're looking at at this point is medusa working along with the last titan to try to obscure things well.

my guess: neon + telle

neon's vouched for by telle claiming achilles is in the game, which makes it very convienent that neon can claim to be achilles. For this reason I would say that telle is likely the last titan, as the titan would have the knowledge of what roles are or are not in the game (as we have hypothesized).

Both of them have actions that are "self-contained" by the nature of what they have told us, that is they cannot be verified by others.

VOTE TELLE

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Telle, what did you learn about last night's actions?

Coeus is in the game.

[Neon_Chaos]

I am Achilles. And I'm willing to go on a 1-on-1 vote-off with anyone you want.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Let me figure out this logic puzzle out loud.

CR ain't the bad titan, he was stoned and there was still a kill. He c ould be medusa or a good titan, but he apparently isn;t a bad one,

I'm not.

I know who cronin is and can vouch that his description mathced his reveal perfectly. Nothing beyond that, but I've witnessed his ability in action. Can anybody confirm that cronin performed an action on them on Night 6 or 5, when we had just one titan left?

That leaves DT, NC and telle who I never had first hand knowledge of who was who. RA vouched for some of them but I've seen wolf roles that scan as good before - I was one last game when I was Lucifer. Plus, RA proved very unreliable. I'm actually glad it was him that was killed or else we could have wasted a day voting him out.

wasn't it night 5 when cronin came to visit me?

[Abe Sargent]

Let's look at CR a little closer. He can be one of three things:

Bad Titan: If a bad titan, must have one other around to have killed today while stoned. Why give up bad guy titan after seer points finger at Lathum? Just let them duke it out for two days. Fed us information that he already knew while using AP to off people. After being reminded regarding Poseidon, we could be faciung two evil titans, and CR is hiding in the open.

Medua: Clever with the stone yourself trick. If so, killing is not a bad thing per se, but gets us away from the enemy.

Good Titan - CR is exactly what he claims, gave up a bad guy, and gave us some information we can use. Kiling him reduces titan numbers despite his alliance with us. Again, not a bad thing necessarily.

[DaddyTorgo]

why should you believe me?

because i'm playing damm near my best villager game ever.

path, ardent, Racer. Nailed them all. I was all over all of them, early and often and relentlessly.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Let's look at CR a little closer. He can be one of three things:

Bad Titan: If a bad titan, must have one other around to have killed today while stoned. Why give up bad guy titan after seer points finger at Lathum? Just let them duke it out for two days. Fed us information that he already knew while using AP to off people. After being reminded regarding Poseidon, we could be faciung two evil titans, and CR is hiding in the open.

Medua: Clever with the stone yourself trick. If so, killing is not a bad thing per se, but gets us away from the enemy.

Good Titan - CR is exactly what he claims, gave up a bad guy, and gave us some information we can use. Kiling him reduces titan numbers despite his alliance with us. Again, not a bad thing necessarily.

good titans don't count against our victory

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

anxiety - I tend to believe you, if only because of telle's mentioning of bloodlust and cronin's verification of things
neon - claims to be achilles (another bodyguard type). only vouching is through Render (IIRC, correct me if wrong) and telle saying achilles is in the game
chief rum - was stoned. Claims he isn't medusa despite evidence to the contrary. Claims to be a good titan
cronin - I believe he's a beautiful chica. Likely aphrodite as he has claimed. Possibly medusa with a hat (tongue in cheek).
myself - I trust 100%
telle - scanned by RA. confirmed scanned by RA but with some weirdness early in the game.

I think what we're looking at at this point is medusa working along with the last titan to try to obscure things well.

my guess: neon + telle

neon's vouched for by telle claiming achilles is in the game, which makes it very convienent that neon can claim to be achilles. For this reason I would say that telle is likely the last titan, as the titan would have the knowledge of what roles are or are not in the game (as we have hypothesized).

Both of them have actions that are "self-contained" by the nature of what they have told us, that is they cannot be verified by others.

VOTE TELLE

You, me and cronin are olympians. I buy that. We have left:

Medusa + olympian + evil titan

OR

Medusa + 2 evil titans

OR

Medusa + good titan + evil titan

Only three places they can be hiding.

Scenario One means that either telle or NC are the ET (one ET cannot be CR - he was stoned and cannot kill). Scenario 2 means at least one is a guaranteed ET. Scenario 3 means at least one is ET.

In either of the three possible scenarios, of telle and NC, one must be a wolf


Why are we believing NC again

I bounced NC's ability to DT. If he were the wolf, wou'dn't DT be dead?

Ergo, I vote telle.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

good titans don't count against our victory

From teh rules:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Victory Conditions:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Titans: You will win the game if you eliminate Zeus, Hades, Poseidon from the game as well as have a 1:1 Titan to Olympian ratio. Note: this does include Titans that are sympathetic to the Olympians cause as a Titan in this ratio.

[Abe Sargent]

Vote Nightfall

My vote aint moving. The more I talk, the more I want to vote telle.

[Neon_Chaos]

DT is the only guy I trust. I voted for path12, and I was willing to vote for either Racer or ardent.

Right now, it's between Telle and Anxiety for me. I believe that Telle fucked Raiders' scans up.

Vote Telle.

[Telle]

Well.. I was scanned by the seer. And none of my visions have been wrong. And it was you Anxiety that had a reason as to why the Titans don't know the roles. I voted for AE, but so did Racer and they were doing some weird Titan vs. Titan thing so I know that doesn't buy me much. Since the first couple of days when I just wasn't around much I have been very active in all the discussion and trying to come up with theories along with everyone else.

[DaddyTorgo]

but if you bounced his ability to me and he was medusa wouldn't I be stone? Or else Neon didn't use his medusa-powers last night...

anxiety - can you give us a rundown of how many times your "bounce" has "succeeded" this game? i'm wondering if it's not more self-contained then it has seemed to be...

[DaddyTorgo]

I like the thinking that it's telle + someone else as medusa, and telle is the titan. My vote's not moving either at least not until after I sleep on it.

[Neon_Chaos]

On the other hand, I never got a PM from AlanT about any bouncing or attempt to bounce.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

but if you bounced his ability to me and he was medusa wouldn't I be stone? Or else Neon didn't use his medusa-powers last night...

anxiety - can you give us a rundown of how many times your "bounce" has "succeeded" this game? i'm wondering if it's not more self-contained then it has seemed to be...

Well Neon DID know that Anxiety was going to be redirecting his ability.. so he very well could have just chosen to not do his action at all. And do we have any idea if a wolf night kill would actually be redirected like a power would be?

And do we have anyone other than Chief (who we ALL see as being suspect at one level or another) who can vouch for Anxiety redirecting their ability? It seems that he moved my vote.. but that doesn't actually prove that he is who he says he is.

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting...

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

but if you bounced his ability to me and he was medusa wouldn't I be stone? Or else Neon didn't use his medusa-powers last night...

anxiety - can you give us a rundown of how many times your "bounce" has "succeeded" this game? i'm wondering if it's not more self-contained then it has seemed to be...

Medusa had not been used every night in this game, but at least one day in between ech use.

I'm saying NC could be either medusa, olympain, or ET under any of the three scenarios, but NC + telle have to have at least one ET under all three scenarios.

I used it night one, Lathum on Barkeep. That would have resulted in BK getting guarded, so good job on that (i'm lucky)

Night two on hoopsguy, and I forgot who I targetted. Didn;t work.

Night three I used it on Lathm to guard himself, I thought htat was what he was signaling int eh thread. Stopped by cronin.

Night four I used it on CR to go to hoopsguy. hoops had died. CR claimed he got results about hoops role. There is always going to be a lingering suspicion that CR killed or stoned hoops.

Night 5 I used it to hop telle's vote. You saw that result.

Night 6 I used it to hop NC to guard DT. Apparently that didn;t work, although I dont get evidence as to what their ability is. I assume that a wolf would have to use their action to kill, so would be misdirected to kill as per my command. DT did not die, ergo I do not suspect NC killed.

Given that I do not suspect that, telle must be the wolf, and is the best vote.

By the way, I need to submit an action. Should I hop telle's vote to herself, or put in a misdireciton order on a suspect?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Telle

Well Neon DID know that Anxiety was going to be redirecting his ability.. so he very well could have just chosen to not do his action at all. And do we have any idea if a wolf night kill would actually be redirected like a power would be?

And do we have anyone other than Chief (who we ALL see as being suspect at one level or another) who can vouch for Anxiety redirecting their ability? It seems that he moved my vote.. but that doesn't actually prove that he is who he says he is.

This is the flaw in yoru argument. If Neon put in no order at all, how is it that there was a kill at all? Who put it in? A second wolf? Who would that be? CR was stoned. That leaves you as the only possible second wolf (barring myself, cronin, and DT obviosly, but i agree with DT's operating premise that we three are olympian godss)

[Telle]

So basically there's nobody around now that can say anything about your ability other than someone who most likely is a monster. And being able to move a vote could be just as likely a Titan ability as an Olympian.

[Abe Sargent]

To submit this further

If there are two titans:

CR and telle can both be wolves. tell submitted the kill last night.

telle and NC can both be wolves, telle submitted the kill last night

CR and NC cannot both be wolves, CR was stoned and NC was directed elsewhere.

Ergo, assuming we are facing two welves, telle has to be a wolf.

If we are facing one wolf, is not CR. That leaves telle or NC. Again, I bounced NC, so it is telle.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

This is the flaw in yoru argument. If Neon put in no order at all, how is it that there was a kill at all? Who put it in? A second wolf? Who would that be? CR was stoned. That leaves you as the only possible second wolf (barring myself, cronin, and DT obviosly, but i agree with DT's operating premise that we three are olympian godss)

Did you read the second sentence? We don't know if a wolf kill action works the same as a role ability. For all we know he could have put in a kill order but no role action, and the kill action wouldn't have been transferred.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

To submit this further

If there are two titans:

CR and telle can both be wolves. tell submitted the kill last night.

telle and NC can both be wolves, telle submitted the kill last night

CR and NC cannot both be wolves, CR was stoned and NC was directed elsewhere.

Ergo, assuming we are facing two welves, telle has to be a wolf.

If we are facing one wolf, is not CR. That leaves telle or NC. Again, I bounced NC, so it is telle.

Convenient that you leave yourself entirely out of the equation.

[Abe Sargent]

I am the only perosn 100% sure about.

[Neon_Chaos]

I will go by the fact that I never received any PM whatsoever.

To me, it was between Telle and Anxiety. And Telle wasn't able to put her vote in during the early deadline day. Anxiety did.

Unvote Telle
Vote Anxiety

Five points.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

To submit this further

If there are two titans:

CR and telle can both be wolves. tell submitted the kill last night.

telle and NC can both be wolves, telle submitted the kill last night

CR and NC cannot both be wolves, CR was stoned and NC was directed elsewhere.

Ergo, assuming we are facing two welves, telle has to be a wolf.

If we are facing one wolf, is not CR. That leaves telle or NC. Again, I bounced NC, so it is telle.

telle is correct anxiety. You do leave yourself out of the equation in all those scenarios.

[DaddyTorgo]

did others receive PM's when their actions were "bounced" ?

[Telle]

I received a PM when my vote was moved.

[Neon_Chaos]

AlanT's game system is flawed if you "attempted" to change my actions, and I received no PM.

[Abe Sargent]

CR said he did. Lathum never said one way or the other, but he was visited by cronin that night, so I don;t know if it got that far.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Telle

Did you read the second sentence? We don't know if a wolf kill action works the same as a role ability. For all we know he could have put in a kill order but no role action, and the kill action wouldn't have been transferred.

Are you wondering if kill actions are not subject to the same rules as role actions? I wouldn;t know, but I don;t think there is anyreason to beleive so. For example, this rule from AlanT seems to indicate that they are the same, and come fromt eh same AP pool

"Likewise a player may choose to use further action points to strengthen their actions as well. A night kill action with 4 APs used will overwhelm a Bodyguard action with only 2 APs used for instance. In the case of actions conflicting with one another, a winning action will not always completely negate the losing action, but it will have the favorable outcome. ie: the bodyguard action listed above may fail, but they may be able to recognise who the assailant was."

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Are you wondering if kill actions are not subject to the same rules as role actions? I wouldn;t know, but I don;t think there is anyreason to beleive so. For example, this rule from AlanT seems to indicate that they are the same, and come fromt eh same AP pool

"Likewise a player may choose to use further action points to strengthen their actions as well. A night kill action with 4 APs used will overwhelm a Bodyguard action with only 2 APs used for instance. In the case of actions conflicting with one another, a winning action will not always completely negate the losing action, but it will have the favorable outcome. ie: the bodyguard action listed above may fail, but they may be able to recognise who the assailant was."

I don't think it's entirely clear.. but at this point I'm much more likely to believe that you're the last Titan over Neon anyways.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

CR said he did. Lathum never said one way or the other, but he was visited by cronin that night, so I don;t know if it got that far.

Chief Rum served Racer to us on a platter. I believe he is who he says he is.

I trust DT. DT says he trusts cronin.

If cronin is not medusa, then either Telle or you are. Since you are pushing for the Telle vote, I am assuming Telle is medusa and you are the titan.

I am Achilles. I voted for path. I pushed for voting Racer, and eventually voted ardent.

My voting record speaks for myself.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I will go by the fact that I never received any PM whatsoever.

To me, it was between Telle and Anxiety. And Telle wasn't able to put her vote in during the early deadline day. Anxiety did.

Unvote Telle
Vote Anxiety

Five points.

I object to that line of reasoning. Vote for me because you cant decide, vote for me because I asnt scanned by RA, whatever. But that's a real life thing. I placed all of my votes last week early because I was out during the evening and rarely around during vote time. That's real life, not WW. Make your vote about the game.



I never lie about rl stuff in a ww game. That's my credo, so here you go. I was intending to be out for the night so I voted early. Period.

Make your vote in game.

[Telle]

Ok, I REALLY need to get to bed. If anything else comes up I'll address it in the morning.