NFL 2022 Offseason, Draft, Free Agency

[QuikSand]

Feels like time to start hosting conversations about the current coaching carousel, and other news basically looking ahead to the 2022 NFL season here... and let the discussion of the 2021 playoffs, etc continue in its own thread.

Have at it.

[spleen1015]

Coming into the season, I was hopeful that Wentz would be fine for the Colts. After the first few games, I thought he was doing a good job. He wasn't that good in the last 2 games, but I don't know if you can put those losses on him.

Once Taylor established himself, Reich relied on him too much. There wasn't much imagination in the passing game after that, if at all during the season.

To have 7 pro-bowlers, this team has too many problems. QB issues, no pressure on defense, OL shitting the bed too many times, no WR or TE that are difference makers.

I believe in Ballard. So, let's see what he can get done this offseason.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Coming into the season, I was hopeful that Wentz would be fine for the Colts. After the first few games, I thought he was doing a good job. He wasn't that good in the last 2 games, but I don't know if you can put those losses on him.

Once Taylor established himself, Reich relied on him too much. There wasn't much imagination in the passing game after that, if at all during the season.

To have 7 pro-bowlers, this team has too many problems. QB issues, no pressure on defense, OL shitting the bed too many times, no WR or TE that are difference makers.

I believe in Ballard. So, let's see what he can get done this offseason.

QBs don't grow on trees, so saying something like "move on from Wentz" is easy to say but hard to do.

But y'all need to move on from Wentz. This year, he had Reich coaching him, an amazing running game, and an opportunistic defense. And the best he could manage was to "show some flashes."

I have no idea what's really up with him. But I think that Indy needs to--at least--bring in a veteran to compete with him. (Not sure if they can cut/trade him for cap reasons). You can't go into next season with him as your only option.

[miked]

I mean, do the Colts have any WRs worth much? It seems like Wentz got stuck on a mediocre Philly and mediocre Colts WR core.

[Ksyrup]

I'm sure if John Elway has any say, Wentz will be Plan A. Like the Joe Flacco debacle.

I've seen Denver linked pretty heavily with Kirk Cousins. I think we discussed that in the other thread, that he's probably more of the same. However, this year he was a top 8 QB thanks to limiting his INTs. Counting on that kind of performance again is not something I'd put my career on the line for, but given his salary cap hit, they might be able to get him for relatively little (compared to what I assume it would cost for Rodgers or Wilson).

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by miked

I mean, do the Colts have any WRs worth much? It seems like Wentz got stuck on a mediocre Philly and mediocre Colts WR core.

If they do, Reich didn't want us to know about it.

[NobodyHere]

Pittman is probably the only WR of note on the Colts. TY Hilton is aging and probably gone. Paris Campbell was suppose to be "unfair" but the injury bug has bit him hard. Mo-Allie Cox is a decent tight end and there's that guy they drafted in the 4th round last year.

[bhlloy]

I think Jack Elyod is better.

Seriously, we are still doing the excuses for Wentz thing? Top 3 RB and line in football (admittedly with injuries but show me a team that didn’t have injuries up front) and now it’s the WR fault? I guess…

[NobodyHere]

I didn't include Jack Elyod because he's thinking about retiring.

[larrymcg421]

I'm Team Tua for now and want the Dolphins to use their FA space for WR, OL, and re-signing Ogbah, Howard, and Duke Johnson.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm Team Tua for now and want the Dolphins to use their FA space for WR, OL, and re-signing Ogbah, Howard, and Duke Johnson.

I think so, too.

I mean, if they give up on Tua, what's the option? It isn't like you've got Josh Allen sitting in free agency.

Give him a chance with a new O-line and a new coach/scheme and see what you have.

This guy was the consensus #1 pick before he got injured and Joe Burrow came out of nowhere. The potential is still there. This isn't like deciding whether Taylor Heinike is the long-term answer or not.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm Team Tua for now and want the Dolphins to use their FA space for WR, OL, and re-signing Ogbah, Howard, and Duke Johnson.

Might nibble around the edges, but I basically co-sign there.

I'm just finding it hard to locate the value in a megadeal for Watson, and the downside there seems obvious and enormous. Already seems like it cost them a very good coach.

I think I'm too enchanted with the "we're building something" narrative to really go for Wilson if he were to float out there, though that seems like it could change in my heart if it really felt like it was within the grasp.

So, yeah, keep building and fill in wisely.

[Lathum]

I said it a while ago and will continue to say it but Tua is and will be a bust. The game moves too fast for him. In college he did everything well but also played with far superior talent than the teams he faced. In almost every game he played the worst WR he was throwing to was better than the best WR or CB on the other team. The talent gap between Alabama and everyone else they played against masks a lot of deficiencies while making guys look better than they probably are.

[Danny]

He was absolutely awful against the Raiders. AWFUL. The only reason his numbers ended up not completely awful was the missed interception that bounced right into the guy's hands in the end zone. Raiders should have lost thay game.

[stevew]

hoping Mason Rudolph isn't the answer

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The game moves too fast for him.

The one effective thing the Dolphins did on offense this season was the RPO, which required him to make immediate reads and split-second decisions. We could debate arm strength or other issues, but the idea that the game moves too fast for him is preposterous.

Also, it seems absurd to talk about how many advantages he had at Alabama, while ignoring the disadvantages he's had with the Dolphins (thin receiving corps, no offensive line, no running game).

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Danny

He was absolutely awful against the Raiders. AWFUL. The only reason his numbers ended up not completely awful was the missed interception that bounced right into the guy's hands in the end zone. Raiders should have lost thay game.

Tua didn't play against the Raiders.

[spleen1015]

I think he is talking about Wentz.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Tua didn't play against the Raiders.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by stevew

hoping Mason Rudolph isn't the answer

Unless someone like Tua or Mayfield or Carr become available, I think it will be Rudolph next year. I definitely don't want them giving up more draft picks for an older QB. I'm behind them spending their first three picks next year on two OL and a DL. Let them tank with Rudolph and get a good pick in the 2023 draft. The only part I don't love there is, if Rudolph is somehow decent, he will be a free agent and I can't stomach the thought of seeing him have one solid season and then putting $18-25M per year on him long-term.

If we are wishing, I'd like to see them resign JuJu for like $8-10M per year for 4 or 5 years (he's still only 25) and having him, Friermuth, Claypool, and Johnson (and I like Gentry, too) is a pretty solid group. I'd also like to see Haden back if he'd do something like $10-12M for two years. Cut Tuitt and Schoebert and resign some of the depth DBs (Witherspoon, Maulet, Killebrew, and Allen) if they are able to without overpaying. I'd like to see them keep Edmunds if he doesn't get a major raise elsewhere, but I have a feeling someone will overpay him.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

The one effective thing the Dolphins did on offense this season was the RPO, which required him to make immediate reads and split-second decisions. We could debate arm strength or other issues, but the idea that the game moves too fast for him is preposterous.

Also, it seems absurd to talk about how many advantages he had at Alabama, while ignoring the disadvantages he's had with the Dolphins (thin receiving corps, no offensive line, no running game).

I watched a number of his games, he looked lost almost at all times. There is a reason why many in the organization wanted Watson, baggage and all. Lets also not make Miami out to be the Lions. They have talent as evidence by their 2020 season. He is at best a game manager who will need to be surrounded by superior talent at all positions, not a guy who makes those around him better. Throw in the success of Justin Herbert, who already looks light years better and yes he has better talent around him, and the Tua pick has bust written all over it. He will never be a guy you are afraid will bring his team down the field with a minute to go down 6 points for the win. Guess we will see in 2 or so years. I hope I'm wrong, I like the kid.

[RainMaker]

He had to have one of the worst offensive lines in the league.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I said it a while ago and will continue to say it but Tua is and will be a bust. The game moves too fast for him. In college he did everything well but also played with far superior talent than the teams he faced. In almost every game he played the worst WR he was throwing to was better than the best WR or CB on the other team. The talent gap between Alabama and everyone else they played against masks a lot of deficiencies while making guys look better than they probably are.

i feel the same way about Jalen Hurts...he was dominant at Oklahoma when he was playing against people that were not his athletic equals, but in the NFL he will be average to below average at best...his accuracy is terrible and his "deep ball" should just be called his "3 yards underthrown" ball which is going to be intercepted more often than caught. the only question for me as a intense eagle observer (living near philly i see them every week) is: how long will Howie Roseman stick with him in an effort to cover his draft mistake?

[flere-imsaho]

Who's a rookie or 1st/2nd year QB who didn't perform that well on a team known to have significant issues who then turned out significantly better on another team? I'm trying to think of examples, but you guys are probably better at this than I.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Who's a rookie or 1st/2nd year QB who didn't perform that well on a team known to have significant issues who then turned out significantly better on another team? I'm trying to think of examples, but you guys are probably better at this than I.

I am generally the guy saying more or less these words. These ugly ducklings are mostly just young ugly ducks.

Not sold that Tua sets up as a lost cause, but I get it.

In fairly recent years, I'd guess Alex Smith is probably the best example of a guy who looked like he wasn't even NFL caliber, and then later put together a pretty respectable NFL career. The jump from so-so to actually above average following a team change feels like it's Ryan Tannehill.

But they are the exceptions that partially prove the rule. Most of them are just ugly ducks.

[Lathum]

It doesn't happen often, but is it because they are so broken by the first team, or because they weren't very good in the first place? I think it is usually the later. A QB makes everyone around him better. How often does a WR leave a team in free agency then becomes a bust when he doesn't have the superior QB throwing to him.

It is what makes football fascinating. You could argue all day is it the system, the QB, the talent? etc...Drop Tua in say, Dallas, does he have more success with the superior talent? Who knows.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I am generally the guy saying more or less these words. These ugly ducklings are mostly just young ugly ducks.

Not sold that Tua sets up as a lost cause, but I get it.

In fairly recent years, I'd guess Alex Smith is probably the best example of a guy who looked like he wasn't even NFL caliber, and then later put together a pretty respectable NFL career. The jump from so-so to actually above average following a team change feels like it's Ryan Tannehill.

But they are the exceptions that partially prove the rule. Most of them are just ugly ducks.

alex smith was the guy i thought of too, but if you remember correctly, he was actually starting to fulfill his promise in SF before he got hurt and Kaepernick replaced him. also, it was never really clear if his bad early career seasons were because he wasnt very good or if it was because he had a new offensive coordinator every year for the first 5 seasons he was in the league

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Might nibble around the edges, but I basically co-sign there.

I'm just finding it hard to locate the value in a megadeal for Watson, and the downside there seems obvious and enormous. Already seems like it cost them a very good coach.

I think I'm too enchanted with the "we're building something" narrative to really go for Wilson if he were to float out there, though that seems like it could change in my heart if it really felt like it was within the grasp.

So, yeah, keep building and fill in wisely.

Although I’m far from sold, I’m pretty much here - Watson isn’t worth the capital given our areas of weakness, and while we have a QB on a rookie deal, let’s at least give him one more chance with a better OL to prove who he is (if Duke Johnson and Philip Lindsay play like they did in the last few games, RB might not be a issue TBF)

[larrymcg421]

Brees was not very good his first couple years with the Chargers.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It doesn't happen often, but is it because they are so broken by the first team, or because they weren't very good in the first place? I think it is usually the later. A QB makes everyone around him better. How often does a WR leave a team in free agency then becomes a bust when he doesn't have the superior QB throwing to him.

It is what makes football fascinating. You could argue all day is it the system, the QB, the talent? etc...Drop Tua in say, Dallas, does he have more success with the superior talent? Who knows.

What is the more success you are looking for? Miami just finished consecutive winning seasons for the 1st time in two decades. They were 9-4 in games where Tua took most of the snaps and he had a 90.1 QB Rating. This is all with one good WR, no running game, and the worst OL in the league.

People are in here acting like he's putting up Jamarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf numbers. Tua may end up a bust, but some of these criticisms of him make no sense. I see you backed away from "the game moves too fast".

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

What is the more success you are looking for? Miami just finished consecutive winning seasons for the 1st time in two decades. They were 9-4 in games where Tua took most of the snaps and he had a 90.1 QB Rating. This is all with one good WR, no running game, and the worst OL in the league.

People are in here acting like he's putting up Jamarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf numbers. Tua may end up a bust, but some of these criticisms of him make no sense. I see you backed away from "the game moves too fast".

No I didn't. The game moves too fast for him.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Unless someone like Tua or Mayfield or Carr become available, I think it will be Rudolph next year. I definitely don't want them giving up more draft picks for an older QB. I'm behind them spending their first three picks next year on two OL and a DL. Let them tank with Rudolph and get a good pick in the 2023 draft. The only part I don't love there is, if Rudolph is somehow decent, he will be a free agent and I can't stomach the thought of seeing him have one solid season and then putting $18-25M per year on him long-term.

If we are wishing, I'd like to see them resign JuJu for like $8-10M per year for 4 or 5 years (he's still only 25) and having him, Friermuth, Claypool, and Johnson (and I like Gentry, too) is a pretty solid group. I'd also like to see Haden back if he'd do something like $10-12M for two years. Cut Tuitt and Schoebert and resign some of the depth DBs (Witherspoon, Maulet, Killebrew, and Allen) if they are able to without overpaying. I'd like to see them keep Edmunds if he doesn't get a major raise elsewhere, but I have a feeling someone will overpay him.

WR/RB/TE-
They have to re-up Johnson probably which I don't have a problem with. I kind of hope they trade Claypool as he seems like a giant turd. James Washington is going to go elsewhere and maybe look good. Not sure why we couldn't get more out of him. I hope Juju comes back as well. I like the tight ends a lot. Can we please get a competent back to spot Najee before he dies in 2 years?

Defense-gotta chuck Tuitt and Schoebert for sure. Devin Bush hasn't done enough to warrant picking up that 5th year option. I think they'll need to go ILB early in this draft. Like Haden, but at a bit less than you do. Maybe they can do 5 years and void out the last 3 or something to keep his hits low. JJ Watt seems like an obvious add if he's released. 1-2 years, maybe he stays healthy(doubtful).

QB-At least lets kick the tires on Mariotta, Winston, Trubiski. They're all probably garbage but Rudolph/Haskins aren't exactly Montana/Young. Also, I sure hope if they think Rudolph is better than whatever is available, they extend him for at least another year. Let's not get into some dumb Prescott/Cousins/Flacco franchise mode.

[bhlloy]

Maybe it’s just recency bias, but with the way the league has gone I really believe in Mariota. I think he settles in to be a solid middle tier QB just like Tannehill did.

[Carman Bulldog]

I'm going to assume Tua and Hurts get one more year in Miami and Philadelphia respectively.

Unless I'm missing somewhere, in terms of where a veteran QB could make an impact, that leaves potential openings in Indianapolis, New Orleans, Pittsburgh and to an extent, Washington and Denver.

Will be interesting to see if either Russell Wilson or Derek Carr are on the move and which of those destinations they would best fit. Cousins and Jimmy G might be other intriguing options. I think even if Indy moves on from Wentz, he lands in one of those other places with a chance to start. I mean, do you really want Mason Rudolph over Carson Wentz? You already had a big slow plodding QB this year and still made the playoffs, think what you could do with one who can throw the ball deep downfield to draw PI calls.

[Swaggs]

I’d take Jimmy G. For the Steelers in a heartbeat, but unless Wilson or Rodgers force a trade to the 49ers, I don’t see them being able to upgrade enough to ship him out. The current Steelers FO and Tomlin thought enough to draft Rudolph with a third rounder just a few years ago, so I’m coming around to the fact that they like him more than a lot of fans do. I’d take a flyer on Wentz, but at this point would anyone go higher than like a 5th or 6th rounder on him? I’d take Rudolph if the cost was any higher.

[Danny]

Wentz is the anti Pitt QB. very talented but soft and mentally weak

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by saldana

i feel the same way about Jalen Hurts...he was dominant at Oklahoma when he was playing against people that were not his athletic equals, but in the NFL he will be average to below average at best...his accuracy is terrible and his "deep ball" should just be called his "3 yards underthrown" ball which is going to be intercepted more often than caught. the only question for me as a intense eagle observer (living near philly i see them every week) is: how long will Howie Roseman stick with him in an effort to cover his draft mistake?

Hurts always had accuracy problems. It was the reaon he lost his job ay Alabama even though he had success there. He is tough and smart, and that has taken him were he is. But lack of accuracy is a death-knell in the NFL.

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Brees was not very good his first couple years with the Chargers.

Brees is a very good example. The Chargers never believed in him and were looking to get rid of him almost immediately. Brees needed a coach that could best utilize his talents, and he found it.

Originally Posted by Lathum

It is what makes football fascinating. You could argue all day is it the system, the QB, the talent? etc...Drop Tua in say, Dallas, does he have more success with the superior talent? Who knows.

I think it is a dose of all of it. Unless you have superior talent, young QB are going to struggle coming into the NFL. Look at the most often pointed to example of Troy Aikman in his first year or Peyton Manning's first year. The difference was they almost immediately improved the talent around them, while they learned th game the hard way. In both of those examples, the team was built around them. The "system" was built to their strengths.

I think in many "bust" situations that is not the case. Bad teams make bad decisions, and the quarterback instead of grows with quality of the team gets held back by the lack of support. I think the history books are probably littered with quarterbacks that failed to develop because of the bad habits learned playing on terrible teams. On the other side, I think there are QB's that success probably was largely because they were "right place, right time."

[albionmoonlight]

Very strong rumors out of New Orleans that Sean Payton is going to announce his retirement in the next couple of days. I really hope that’s not the case. To go from Drew Brees and Sean Payton to random Coach X and Trevor Siemian in a two year span is a pretty steep fall.

[Ksyrup]

This isn't related to a Dallas power play, is it? Or has that become what the old "Gruden to [anywhere]" rumor was?

[QuikSand]

Feeling like Miami's quiet is deliberate... but if Daboll is a top choice (as I am guessing and many are whispering), there should be news any day now.

[Ksyrup]

Sources: Sean Payton has informed the #Saints that he’s stepping away.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) January 25, 2022

[Ksyrup]

Also saw something saying he's retiring, not looking.

[RainMaker]

Love the Poles hire as GM for the Bears. Unfortunately, it looks like they aren't going to let him pick the head coach.

[albionmoonlight]

Sean Payton leaving the Saints as they're about to stare down the consequences from years of YOLO spending and draft-pick trades is like bailing after you and your buddies burned down an Air BnB following a week-long rager.

Gotta respect it.

— Robert Mays (@robertmays) January 25, 2022

[Ksyrup]

Maybe take a break, recharge, wait for a good QB class...?

Sean Payton is stepping aside from the Saints according to a source with knowledge of the situation. He is not retiring per se but is taking a break from coaching. As previously reported several networks are pursuing him. A return to coaching at some point is possible

— Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) January 25, 2022

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Maybe take a break, recharge, wait for a good QB class...?

It really is smart. Get paid well to banter on TV.

Then wait for the perfect coaching job to open up. He's the frontrunner for any and every coaching position that opens up over the next five years.

(Edit--possibly New England has been promised to McDaniels.)

[albionmoonlight]

Mike McCarthy's seat just went from warm to "You will be fired as soon as Sean Payton decides he wants to come back to coaching."

Might have actually gained McCarthy a couple years depending on the length of Payton's break.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Love the Poles hire as GM for the Bears. Unfortunately, it looks like they aren't going to let him pick the head coach.

It seems like a really strong hire.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Love the Poles hire as GM for the Bears. Unfortunately, it looks like they aren't going to let him pick the head coach.

Reports coming in he (rightly) demanded to take sole control of the coaching interviews.

[Ksyrup]

Sean Payton looked at the Saints cap situation like… pic.twitter.com/plpG5UKnOA

— Damien Woody (@damienwoody) January 25, 2022