Cardinals - Braves trade

MizzouRah · 12-13-2003, 03:14 PM

The Cards made a move to bolster their pitching staff Saturday, acquiring right-hander Jason Marquis, left-handed reliever Ray King and pitching prospect Adam Wainwright for J.D. Drew and Eli Marrero.

Who can tell me about Jason Marquis?

I'm going to miss Drew, I hope this trade doesn't come back to bite us.. meaning Drew having a BIG year from the plate.

Todd

SirFozzie · 12-13-2003, 03:16 PM

I already covered this one in my winter meetings thread, but I can't see this being a great deal for the Cards. The Braves just replaced the folks they lost quite passibly, at a MUCH cheaper price.

The_herd · 12-13-2003, 03:21 PM

Marquis has a good arm but hasn't figured out how to pitch in the majors yet. Good stuff, could be a legit 2 or 3 starter on a good rotation based soley on talent. Works with high pitch counts, which leads to a lot of K's and, of course, walks as well.

korme · 12-13-2003, 03:25 PM

:clap: :clap:

astralhaze · 12-13-2003, 03:47 PM

Marquis is inconsistent but talented, Ray King is a LOOGY and a decent one, but the real haul for the Cardinals is Adam Wainright. One of the best prospects in baseball. Of course, he is a pitching prospect so he could get hurt at any moment.

ISiddiqui · 12-13-2003, 03:55 PM

Yeah, Wainright is the big guy in the deal. Marquis and King are decent, but it's the prospect that could make this a good deal or a bad one.... well that's depending on if Drew stays healthy

.

Though nice for the Braves to pick up Marrero.

Easy Mac · 12-13-2003, 03:56 PM

I don't know how I feel about the trade (Braves fan).

Marquis is a piece of crap. Completely unfulfilled potential, I've been hoping they would offload him. I can't tell you how much I dislike Marquis.

Ray King had a rocky season this past year, but is a serviceable reliever.

I saw Wainwright pitch a few times this past season at AA Greenville. The guy is a stud. Everytime I saw him pitch, he dominated the other team. I have no idea how the Braves would let him go. He's tall, with a nice fastball and curve. I'm pissed about letting him go.

As in return:
I'm not sure where we'll play Marrerro? I guess he's our backup something, but I think he was just filler.

I've always liked Drew, but I don' think he is good enough to give up what the Braves gave up. I mean, you give up your top pitching prospect, your #5 starter and your #2 or 3 reliever for a guy who played 100 games last year... Bad deal for the Braves if Wainright is even half as good as he looks like he COULD be.

Poli · 12-13-2003, 04:01 PM

DANG IT

MizzouRah · 12-13-2003, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_herd
Marquis has a good arm but hasn't figured out how to pitch in the majors yet. Good stuff, could be a legit 2 or 3 starter on a good rotation based soley on talent. Works with high pitch counts, which leads to a lot of K's and, of course, walks as well.

Thanks, and I forgot about Wainright. I guess it was better than Edmonds, but who knows.

Todd

astralhaze · 12-13-2003, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Easy Mac
I'm not sure where we'll play Marrerro? I guess he's our backup something, but I think he was just filler.

Unless you are a Johnny Estrada fan, he could well fit as the starting catcher.

GoldenEagle · 12-13-2003, 04:33 PM

I dont like the move and I am a Cardinals fan.

We should have kept Drew and I thought that was the intent when we moved Martinez. Now Edmonds is the only returning starting outfielder. Marquis most likely will not reach his potential and I dont know about King.

Easy Mac · 12-13-2003, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by astralhaze
Unless you are a Johnny Estrada fan, he could well fit as the starting catcher.

Estrada was 2nd in AAA in batting, 3rd in OBP and 5th in Slugging last season. Named the Braves top Minor League Hitter last year. MVP of the AAA All-star game. I think he'll be alright. Morrerro has been nothing more than a career backup.

Actually, my girlfriend has been in love with Javy Lopez for the past decade. She's pissed at the Braves that they let him go (something about him having a nice ass or something).

astralhaze · 12-13-2003, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Easy Mac
Estrada was 2nd in AAA in batting, 3rd in OBP and 5th in Slugging last season. Named the Braves top Minor League Hitter last year. MVP of the AAA All-star game. I think he'll be alright. Morrerro has been nothing more than a career backup.

He was also 27 years old and had never hit anything close to that prior to last season. His major league numbers, granted in only 351 at bats, are .231/.279/.345. Now, I don't doubt that he improved last year, but putting up those type of numbers after being a pretty bad hitter for most of his career just screams fluke. I think, at best, he will be a .750 OPS type hitter and that is being very generous. I'm not a huge Marrero fan either, but I think both of them will end up playing a lot behind the plate.

sterlingice · 12-13-2003, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SirFozzie
I already covered this one in my winter meetings thread, but I can't see this being a great deal for the Cards. The Braves just replaced the folks they lost quite passibly, at a MUCH cheaper price.

I disagree quite a bit. I think the Cards win out on this. Drew is untapped potential much more than Jason Marquis. You want to talk about overhyped, just ask the man who circumvented the draft because he was supposed to be God's gift to baseball. Drew has played 5 seasons in the majors: never has played an entire season due to health reasons, never has hit 30 homers, and only once hit .300. He's a career .875 OPS guy and that just doesn't get me excited.

I thought Marquis had started to turn the corner last season but he needs to be a starter. He had a couple of decent starts and then they shipped him into the pen and he just doesn't have the mentality to pitch out of the bullpen. I think a change of scenery does him good and he comes on strong next season.

I don't know much about Wainright except that he's pretty highly touted.

This isn't really much of a salary swap is it? If not, I'd rather have Marquis and the prospect than Drew (Ray King and Eli Marerro are kindof a wash- one's a pretty good lefty specialist while the other is a pretty good catcher; servicable need fillers but nothing special). Sure, Drew may stay healthy and may finally fulfill his potential but it's a lot more likely that he will have another season of nagging injuries and go .280-20-80. I can find that out on the FA market for $3M and not give up Marquis or Wainright to do it.

SI

JonInMiddleGA · 12-13-2003, 07:01 PM

Bad deal for the Braves, good deal for the Cardinals (I'm assuming they just dumped a good bit of salary).

The Braves get a piece of unfulfilled potential in Drew, Marrero is a handy utility guy for fantasy teams but I wouldn't have swapped Wainwright for the pair of them and a player to be named later.

King & Marquis are no great losses, but to throw in Wainwright?
The Braves got taken to the woodshed.

MizzouRah · 12-13-2003, 07:14 PM

Maybe Jon, but I really think JD Drew needed a change of scenery. If the Braves can't get a more than a half-season from Drew, nobody can.

Again, I don't know much about Wainwright, but I'm glad you say he has great potential, lord knows we need pitching.

I still think the Cubbies and the Astros are much better than the Cardinals this year and barring any blockbuster signings, Cards finish 4th this year and LaRussa is out. I don't know why, but I think Herzog will come back and manage the Cardinals.

Upon further review of Wainwright (27 starts at Double-A Greenvile in 2003, Wainwright was 10-8 with a 3.37 ERA. In 149 2/3 innings, he allowed only 37 walks while striking out 128. In his minor league career, Wainwright has struck out 560 and walked 163 in 539 innings), I'm liking this deal some now.

Braves are wanting to matchup with Philly and the Cardinals are trying to scrap together a team - although they are gearing up for the future as well.

Todd

Poli · 12-13-2003, 07:19 PM

Ugh, I hate this!

Pumpy Tudors · 12-13-2003, 08:06 PM

I'm a Cardinals fan, and I was hoping that they'd dump Drew before the trading deadline LAST season. If he could've stayed in the damn lineup, I'd be under the impression that he was just playing out the string and hoping for a trade. He was never going to cut it in St. Louis, as much as the Cardinals tried to make us believe. I hate losing Eli Marrero, just because he plays catcher, first base, and all three outfield positions. The Cards will get by without him, though. I just wonder who'll play right field for them now.

GrantDawg · 12-13-2003, 09:21 PM

Like it.

Ksyrup · 12-13-2003, 10:05 PM

The Braves gave up nothing in Ray King (think Chris Hammonds, a reclamation project they coaxed a decent season out of, who couldn't pitch for the Brewers a couple of years ago), a once-promising starter, and a good prospect. In return, they got a guy who can put up big numbers if he can stay healthy and a valuable utility player. This trade seems pretty fair to me, although 2-3 years from now, it could look one-sided either way. But that's they way they usually go.

Japherwaki · 12-13-2003, 11:00 PM

As a Cardinals fan, I like this trade too. Drew and Marrero are good players, but don't play enough for what they are being paid (isn't Marrero due something like $3 million this year?). From what I've heard, Marquis is a good starter who just couldn't manage to break into the Braves rotation on a regular basis. King is a left-handed reliever (something the bullpen really needed another of) that had a good season last year, and I've heard Wainwright is considered one of the top 5 prospects in the minors right now.

Unfortunately, I think Drew will play much better in Atlanta. He clearly needed a change of scenery. Marrero looks to have been purely a salary move, since I think the Cardinals really liked his playing ability the flexability he added to the lineup. I am a big Marrero fan. But overall, I think this was a good trade for the Cardinals.

Plus, I really like Edmonds too (even with his price tag), and I can't see how the Cardinals could possibly trade him now.

12-13-2003, 03:21 PM	#3
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	Marquis has a good arm but hasn't figured out how to pitch in the majors yet. Good stuff, could be a legit 2 or 3 starter on a good rotation based soley on talent. Works with high pitch counts, which leads to a lot of K's and, of course, walks as well. __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs

12-13-2003, 03:55 PM	#6
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Yeah, Wainright is the big guy in the deal. Marquis and King are decent, but it's the prospect that could make this a good deal or a bad one.... well that's depending on if Drew stays healthy . Though nice for the Braves to pick up Marrero. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

12-13-2003, 04:01 PM	#8
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	DANG IT __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

12-13-2003, 04:33 PM	#11
GoldenEagle Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Little Rock, AR	I dont like the move and I am a Cardinals fan. We should have kept Drew and I thought that was the intent when we moved Martinez. Now Edmonds is the only returning starting outfielder. Marquis most likely will not reach his potential and I dont know about King. __________________ Xbox 360 Gamer Tag: GoldenEagle014 Last edited by GoldenEagle : 12-13-2003 at 07:05 PM.

12-13-2003, 07:01 PM	#15
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Bad deal for the Braves, good deal for the Cardinals (I'm assuming they just dumped a good bit of salary). The Braves get a piece of unfulfilled potential in Drew, Marrero is a handy utility guy for fantasy teams but I wouldn't have swapped Wainwright for the pair of them and a player to be named later. King & Marquis are no great losses, but to throw in Wainwright? The Braves got taken to the woodshed. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

12-13-2003, 03:16 PM	#2
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	I already covered this one in my winter meetings thread, but I can't see this being a great deal for the Cards. The Braves just replaced the folks they lost quite passibly, at a MUCH cheaper price. __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

12-13-2003, 03:25 PM	#4
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	:clap: :clap:

12-13-2003, 03:47 PM	#5
astralhaze College Prospect Join Date: Dec 2002	Marquis is inconsistent but talented, Ray King is a LOOGY and a decent one, but the real haul for the Cardinals is Adam Wainright. One of the best prospects in baseball. Of course, he is a pitching prospect so he could get hurt at any moment. __________________ I can understand Brutus at every meaning, but that parahraphy threw me for a loop.

12-13-2003, 03:56 PM	#7
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	I don't know how I feel about the trade (Braves fan). Marquis is a piece of crap. Completely unfulfilled potential, I've been hoping they would offload him. I can't tell you how much I dislike Marquis. Ray King had a rocky season this past year, but is a serviceable reliever. I saw Wainwright pitch a few times this past season at AA Greenville. The guy is a stud. Everytime I saw him pitch, he dominated the other team. I have no idea how the Braves would let him go. He's tall, with a nice fastball and curve. I'm pissed about letting him go. As in return: I'm not sure where we'll play Marrerro? I guess he's our backup something, but I think he was just filler. I've always liked Drew, but I don' think he is good enough to give up what the Braves gave up. I mean, you give up your top pitching prospect, your #5 starter and your #2 or 3 reliever for a guy who played 100 games last year... Bad deal for the Braves if Wainright is even half as good as he looks like he COULD be.

12-13-2003, 07:14 PM	#16
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	Maybe Jon, but I really think JD Drew needed a change of scenery. If the Braves can't get a more than a half-season from Drew, nobody can. Again, I don't know much about Wainwright, but I'm glad you say he has great potential, lord knows we need pitching. I still think the Cubbies and the Astros are much better than the Cardinals this year and barring any blockbuster signings, Cards finish 4th this year and LaRussa is out. I don't know why, but I think Herzog will come back and manage the Cardinals. Upon further review of Wainwright (27 starts at Double-A Greenvile in 2003, Wainwright was 10-8 with a 3.37 ERA. In 149 2/3 innings, he allowed only 37 walks while striking out 128. In his minor league career, Wainwright has struck out 560 and walked 163 in 539 innings), I'm liking this deal some now. Braves are wanting to matchup with Philly and the Cardinals are trying to scrap together a team - although they are gearing up for the future as well. Todd

12-13-2003, 07:19 PM	#17
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Ugh, I hate this! __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

12-13-2003, 08:06 PM	#18
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I'm a Cardinals fan, and I was hoping that they'd dump Drew before the trading deadline LAST season. If he could've stayed in the damn lineup, I'd be under the impression that he was just playing out the string and hoping for a trade. He was never going to cut it in St. Louis, as much as the Cardinals tried to make us believe. I hate losing Eli Marrero, just because he plays catcher, first base, and all three outfield positions. The Cards will get by without him, though. I just wonder who'll play right field for them now. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

12-13-2003, 09:21 PM	#19
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	Like it.

12-13-2003, 10:05 PM	#20
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	The Braves gave up nothing in Ray King (think Chris Hammonds, a reclamation project they coaxed a decent season out of, who couldn't pitch for the Brewers a couple of years ago), a once-promising starter, and a good prospect. In return, they got a guy who can put up big numbers if he can stay healthy and a valuable utility player. This trade seems pretty fair to me, although 2-3 years from now, it could look one-sided either way. But that's they way they usually go. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 12-13-2003 at 10:05 PM.

12-13-2003, 11:00 PM	#21
Japherwaki n00b Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO	As a Cardinals fan, I like this trade too. Drew and Marrero are good players, but don't play enough for what they are being paid (isn't Marrero due something like $3 million this year?). From what I've heard, Marquis is a good starter who just couldn't manage to break into the Braves rotation on a regular basis. King is a left-handed reliever (something the bullpen really needed another of) that had a good season last year, and I've heard Wainwright is considered one of the top 5 prospects in the minors right now. Unfortunately, I think Drew will play much better in Atlanta. He clearly needed a change of scenery. Marrero looks to have been purely a salary move, since I think the Cardinals really liked his playing ability the flexability he added to the lineup. I am a big Marrero fan. But overall, I think this was a good trade for the Cardinals. Plus, I really like Edmonds too (even with his price tag), and I can't see how the Cardinals could possibly trade him now. __________________ Japherwaki

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