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Old 05-23-2022, 05:53 PM   #2601
RainMaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
Boo hoo hoo my ass.

These pampered bitches are getting an opportunity that literally millions would die (or kill) to have. And that's just the free ride to school part of it.

I'm 100% fine with someone starting a semi-pro league, a minor league, the NFL opening their doors wide, whatever. Don't care if they get paid, just not at the expense of the complete destruction of college sports. That shit belongs somewhere else.

If it's such a great opportunity that millions of people would love, then just offer the scholarship. Avoid all the NIL garbage. Sure you lose some of those pampered players you talk about, but there are millions willing to replace them.

And it became a professional league decades ago. Can't cry amateur while taking in billions in media contracts, lining your stadium with sponsors, and paying coaches $10+ million a season. It's a professional league no matter how people try to convince themselves otherwise.
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Old 05-23-2022, 05:58 PM   #2602
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A professional league built on cheap labor. Of course, this whole country is built on cheap labor.

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Old 05-23-2022, 05:58 PM   #2603
RainMaker
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Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98 View Post
Yeah fuck that. You missed my point

What is your point? You gave an explanation that you enjoyed the sport more when the players were poor.

If someone can explain how the net worth of a player impacts your enjoyment of watching a game, I'd like to hear it. I've just never thought of it when watching college sports. Never crossed my mind to think "well his parents are rich, I just can't watch this anymore".
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Old 05-23-2022, 06:30 PM   #2604
JonInMiddleGA
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Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
If it's such a great opportunity that millions of people would love, then just offer the scholarship. Avoid all the NIL garbage. Sure you lose some of those pampered players you talk about, but there are millions willing to replace them.

The NIL stuff is an abomination afaic, and should never have existed under any circumstance. That's basically what I'm saying. If someone wants to launch a semi-pro league, a minor league (for football), etc, fine by me.

I won't miss those players any more than I miss those who've taken the G-League (whatever that developmental arm is called). And let's note here, you haven't seen me criticize the existence of that NBA project at all afaik.
I have literally zero interest in it but I'm not bothered by its existence either.


Quote:
It's a professional league no matter how people try to convince themselves otherwise.

We have different definitions obviously. Being a business and having professional players purchased for the highest price are two different things afaic.
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Old 05-23-2022, 07:36 PM   #2605
RainMaker
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There is D2 and D3 football out there. Guessing most have no NIL deals and very few have scholarships.

And it is a business, albeit one with a loophole that doesn't require it to pay employees market rates like other businesses. And NIL doesn't change that. It still maintains that loophole. It just can't dictate its un-capitalist terms to other businesses and restrict a free market.
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Old 05-23-2022, 07:53 PM   #2606
JonInMiddleGA
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Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
There is D2 and D3 football out there. Guessing most have no NIL deals and very few have scholarships.

And it is a business, albeit one with a loophole that doesn't require it to pay employees market rates like other businesses. And NIL doesn't change that. It still maintains that loophole. It just can't dictate its un-capitalist terms to other businesses and restrict a free market.

The existing model offered compensation. Nobody held a gun to any player's head to accept those terms.

Go elsewhere, do something else, no restraint of anybody's opportunity to launch an alternative.

The alternatives don't exist because nobody gives a fuck about them. Same thing that will happen with the current abominable changes.
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Old 05-23-2022, 09:56 PM   #2607
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There are already 500+ alternatives. Why do they need to add more? The issue is that those 500+ schools acted as an illegal cartel.

The issue isn't with the players or the NCAA, it's with a 132-year old law that has broad support from the public. I guess people can be upset with the NCAA for being unable to put together a compelling product without violating the law.
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Old 05-24-2022, 08:10 AM   #2608
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I say let the free market decide. If enough people think it's so bad that they stop watching, then all sides will want to get to a better place if money starts to dry up as a result. If not, then those people pissing in the wind are about as relevant as all of the people who supposedly stopped watching the NFL over the Kaepernick controversy.

Football and basketball are unique because of the professional opportunities. Free transfers have always been a thing in the rest of college sports, although the portal made it easier and more transparent for the player, which I am all for. Previously, it was up to the coach/school to decide whether they would let a player contact another school which has always been bullshit. I'm sure I've told the story here before of my daughter's teammate who wanted to transfer after freshman year (pre-portal), and the coach held it up for 2 weeks trying to essentially trade her for switching a home-and-home series the next year back to his home field (so home field 3 years in a row) with the school she wanted to talk to. That kind of bullshit has nothing to do with player welfare and is just an abuse of the process.

At the vast majority of schools, players are on a year-to-year scholarship which can be yanked for any reason, including performance. It was a one-way street - perform above expectations, and we're keeping you or deciding where you can or can't go. Suck, and you're scholarship is cut or you're told the coach will help find you a landing spot at a smaller school. Even at the P5 schools where they supposedly have 4-year guaranteed scholarships, coaches still treat freshmen as auditioning, then have "come to Jesus" meetings where they tell them they'll never see the field/court and they should move on, freeing up the scholarship because very few kids are going to stick it out for 4 years as a practice dummy.

So IMO, the portal is a good thing and NIL is a nice supplement for some of the players. But there's no doubt that for FB and BBall, it's way more complicated because of NIL and there's no denying that it hurts the product from the fan's perspective. But that's the price we pay for living in a (supposedly) free society, right?
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Old 05-24-2022, 10:49 AM   #2609
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The NCAA did this to themselves by making college athletics a billion-dollar industry. If they had kept things truly amateur there wouldn't be a need for NIL deals, but they got greedy. There hasn't been amateur college athletics, at least in terms of football and basketball, for decades, just now the players are getting their cut of the profits.

I'm still in favor of allowing schools to do whatever they want so long as they are self-sustaining and take no money from tuition/fees. There would be a super division of big schools, but the bulk of programs would more resemble the financial landscape of the 70s.
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Old 05-24-2022, 12:54 PM   #2610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
What is your point? You gave an explanation that you enjoyed the sport more when the players were poor.

If someone can explain how the net worth of a player impacts your enjoyment of watching a game, I'd like to hear it. I've just never thought of it when watching college sports. Never crossed my mind to think "well his parents are rich, I just can't watch this anymore".


My point was we could relate to these guys as kids/students and not just athletes. We went to the same classes, same hangouts, same study halls, etc. That to me separates college from pros. I imagine there are similarities between our college sports and the lower level Europe soccer leagues. You feel that these guys are apart of the same community you are and working on achieving a similar goal in a smaller "world". Paying them as mercenaries, where they come and go depending on the almighty dollar cheapens and strips away what makes that an inclusive environment.
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Old 05-24-2022, 06:06 PM   #2611
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This is finally taking it too far with this NIL stuff, how do 95% of colleges compete with this?

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Old 05-24-2022, 06:10 PM   #2612
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lol
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Old 05-26-2022, 03:46 PM   #2613
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Rumor is that the Big Ten is dropping divisions starting in 2023, with each team getting 2 protected rivals.

Big Ten eliminating football divisions would benefit Indiana more than most

Quote:
The most likely scenario in his mind — were divisions to go — would be to hand each program two protected opponents that would appear on their schedules every season. The other 11 teams in the conference would be scheduled on a rotating basis.

Using that structure, across a four-year cycle, two protected opponents would fill eight of 36 total conference games. That would leave 28 more, allowing a home-and-away rotation against the remaining 11 Big Ten teams for each program, with either three home-and-away repeats or six one-off outliers tacked on to make the math work.

From a different article:

Quote:
“At the end of the day you just want equity in the schedules for everybody, and if you look at the last eight years, every winner of the Big Ten has came from the East, four different teams have won it during that time period, so I can see that definitely being the direction we go,” Allen said.
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Old 05-26-2022, 04:32 PM   #2614
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We want equity in the schedules which is why we are giving 2 protected rivals to each school.

Like I get the rivalry stuff, but it sort of goes against the equity thing you're preaching.
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Old 05-26-2022, 04:51 PM   #2615
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What will Iowa's 2 rivals be? Nebby and Purdue (Old legends and leaders joke).

We have 3, I hope we keep Minny and Wiscy and dump the Bugeaters.
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Old 05-26-2022, 05:16 PM   #2616
Kodos
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Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
We want equity in the schedules which is why we are giving 2 protected rivals to each school.

Like I get the rivalry stuff, but it sort of goes against the equity thing you're preaching.

Still a lot better than concentrating the top 4 teams in the East.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:44 AM   #2617
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Louisville boosters putting up the $$$ and coming after Texas A&M I see...
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Old 06-02-2022, 09:19 PM   #2618
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Idaho State assistant football coach DaVonte' Neal arrested, charged with first-degree murder
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Old 06-04-2022, 12:52 PM   #2619
albionmoonlight
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I realize that the odds of this are very very low, but it would be kind of funny if Arch Manning turned out to be not very good.
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Old 06-04-2022, 01:58 PM   #2620
BYU 14
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He was down at the school I coach at now a couple of weeks ago recruiting one of our DB's. Reached in his pocket to get his cards and accidentally pulled out a bag of weed with them, that dropped to the floor. Great way to impress meeting with coaches representing your College program.

I was on the opposing sideline twice when he was a player here as well and as talented as he was, he was always just off to me. It's baffling how you go 5 years living your normal life knowing you killed someone.
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Old 06-04-2022, 02:28 PM   #2621
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Originally Posted by BYU 14 View Post
He was down at the school I coach at now a couple of weeks ago recruiting one of our DB's. Reached in his pocket to get his cards and accidentally pulled out a bag of weed with them, that dropped to the floor. Great way to impress meeting with coaches representing your College program.

I was on the opposing sideline twice when he was a player here as well and as talented as he was, he was always just off to me. It's baffling how you go 5 years living your normal life knowing you killed someone.
Been trying to follow a bit because I remember being excited about him before his cup of coffee with Notre Dame (dude had that Stefon Diggs skillset, though obviously not the mental part) and it's definitely a weird story. The Idaho State coach was his HS coach, so you'd figure he wouldn't have him on staff if he had suspicion Neal was this kind of character, but they also seem to have 100% cut all ties instead of saying he's "suspended" and they're "shocked" by the allegations before going No Comment.
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Old 06-04-2022, 04:28 PM   #2622
BYU 14
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Yeah, Ragle was head coach at Chaparral when he transferred there from Cesar Chavez, before subsequently transferring to Central after Football was over, where he could obtain a better academic ranking prior to going to Notre Dame. It was just a strange journey from jump, including getting held back in 8th grade to have an advantage entering high school.

His Dad Luke is a respected athletic trainer here and former NFL receiver and his cousin is former BYU, current Detroit Running Back Jamaal Williams, who is an absolutely stellar human being, one of the nicest people you will ever meet. Crazy how he went so far off the track.
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Old 06-04-2022, 09:51 PM   #2623
stevew
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Originally Posted by albionmoonlight View Post
I realize that the odds of this are very very low, but it would be kind of funny if Arch Manning turned out to be not very good.

Oh yeah. Like if his real dad was Nathan Peterman or something.
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Old 06-04-2022, 10:04 PM   #2624
JonInMiddleGA
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Oh yeah. Like if his real dad was Nathan Peterman or something.

Worse. Jonathan fn Crompton aka The Incrompetent One
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Old 06-05-2022, 08:55 AM   #2625
Ksyrup
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Originally Posted by albionmoonlight View Post
I realize that the odds of this are very very low, but it would be kind of funny if Arch Manning turned out to be not very good.

Here's a fun game - how bad would he have to be in college for him to not get drafted or picked up as a UFA on name alone?
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Old 06-09-2022, 11:58 AM   #2627
Swaggs
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Fun conversation starter from a mailbag I saw on the Athletic. Without directly copying and pasting, the premise is how much and how long would it take for a billionaire to make a non-powerhouse program into a championship contender. So, they suggested Bezos agreeing to fund the University of New Mexico (where his father apparently attended) or a Saudi prince deciding he wanted to boost UMass into a title contender.

Here are the categories to spend in:

Facilities (the mailbag author argues that the training and meeting room facilities are more important than the actual stadium to start with):

Head Coach:

Coaching Staff:

NLI player payroll:

Logistical/Travel expenses:



I'll fill in the blanks of what the author thought in a little while.
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Old 06-10-2022, 01:52 PM   #2628
BishopMVP
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Lloyd Carr's 5* QB grandson (and son of a Michigan QB) picked Notre Dame, thought that was a little funny... but I can also understand not wanting to play for Harbaugh given his QB track record since returning to Michigan.
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Old 06-10-2022, 02:19 PM   #2629
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Lloyd Carr's 5* QB grandson (and son of a Michigan QB) picked Notre Dame, thought that was a little funny... but I can also understand not wanting to play for Harbaugh given his QB track record since returning to Michigan.

Who knows why he actually made the decision, but based on his statements it sounds like the kid wanted to forge his own path a bit and not just stick to staying and living in the same 10 mile radius he grew up in. I mean, itís not like South Bend is all that far are too terribly different or exotic as compared to Ann Arbor, but I can see it.

Still, not a great look for Michigan. Their 2023 recruiting class is currently pretty weak and small and they have no one yet for 2024. It feels like last year might be the high water mark for Michigan for a while. Among Harbaugh essentially thinking he had the Vikings job on lock and bailing out, only to return, losing their top two coordinators, and bad recruiting, the outlook ainít so good.
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Old 06-18-2022, 03:42 PM   #2630
sterlingice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaggs View Post
Fun conversation starter from a mailbag I saw on the Athletic. Without directly copying and pasting, the premise is how much and how long would it take for a billionaire to make a non-powerhouse program into a championship contender. So, they suggested Bezos agreeing to fund the University of New Mexico (where his father apparently attended) or a Saudi prince deciding he wanted to boost UMass into a title contender.

Here are the categories to spend in:

Facilities (the mailbag author argues that the training and meeting room facilities are more important than the actual stadium to start with):

Head Coach:

Coaching Staff:

NLI player payroll:

Logistical/Travel expenses:



I'll fill in the blanks of what the author thought in a little while.

Isn't this basically the T. Boone Pickens plan on steroids?

SI
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Old 06-18-2022, 04:57 PM   #2631
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Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue View Post
Who knows why he actually made the decision, but based on his statements it sounds like the kid wanted to forge his own path a bit and not just stick to staying and living in the same 10 mile radius he grew up in. I mean, itís not like South Bend is all that far are too terribly different or exotic as compared to Ann Arbor, but I can see it.

Still, not a great look for Michigan. Their 2023 recruiting class is currently pretty weak and small and they have no one yet for 2024. It feels like last year might be the high water mark for Michigan for a while. Among Harbaugh essentially thinking he had the Vikings job on lock and bailing out, only to return, losing their top two coordinators, and bad recruiting, the outlook ainít so good.

A lot has been written about this. The family is still quite close to the Michigan program. C.J.'s younger brother, Chad, was the Chad of "Chad Tough," a local childhood cancer fundraiser that meant a lot to the team. Unfortunately, Chad's cancer was not treatable. And C.J.'s grandfather, of course, was the coach for a long time.

I knew Jason's (C.J.'s father) sister in college. She grew up in Ann Arbor, went to Michigan, was close to the program. C.J. lives in Saline (a lot of Michigan coaches end up living there - you just can't realistically build in Ann Arbor any more) and plays for the Hornets.

Obviously, it's easy to take C.J.'s decision personally, especially given the speculation over his grandfather's exit, and then the weirdness over the Rich Rodriguez hiring that changed the brand so much. But I'm not sure it should be personal. C.J. considered Michigan. His recruiting is tied to that of Dante Moore, one of the top quarterbacks for the 2023 class (Carr is 2024). Moore seemed Notre Dame-bound, but Michigan wants him quite badly. Now that Carr is committed to Notre Dame, Harbaugh seems single-minded in his pursuit of Moore. It's an all-or-nothing game here, apparently.

It's not so much that Harbaugh rejected Carr - he didn't. It's that Carr likely perceives that if Harbaugh wants Moore that badly, and everyone knows it, it's going to be very hard to come to Michigan a year later and beat him out. And now that Carr has committed to Notre Dame, the Irish don't seem to be in on Moore. So the real question is whether Harbaugh can land Moore, who could be interested in Oregon or LSU or simply NIL money. Michigan has nothing else for 2023, though they seem to be in on Jadyn Davis from the 2024 class. But the roster is loaded for 2022, at least the quarterback room and the rest of the offense. The defense is another story.
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Old 06-18-2022, 05:16 PM   #2632
JPhillips
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I think we're in a world where a 4 or 5 star QB isn't going to be content to be a backup for more than a year and there will always be stating opportunities available for them
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Old 06-23-2022, 11:32 AM   #2633
cartman
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so Arch Manning ended the suspense and has (at the moment) committed to Texas.
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Old 06-23-2022, 11:34 AM   #2634
NobodyHere
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How much did Texas have to pay him?
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Old 06-23-2022, 12:17 PM   #2635
JPhillips
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This is really a window into understanding recruiting rankings.

Quote:
How good is Manning? One coach who recruited him told ESPN that he would likely still be the No. 1 player in his class if his last name was something other than Manning.
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Old 06-23-2022, 01:11 PM   #2636
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I am more interested in who he decided to go play for. My perception is that Sark would be more receptive to receiving assistance from "outside forces" in guiding Arch on his way to the NFL than Nick, Kirby or Dabo would be. I don't think the Mannings were ever entrusting Arch's future to a program with a first time head coach which is why I did not include Tony Elliott.
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Old 06-23-2022, 02:02 PM   #2637
GrantDawg
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Kirby will do many things to recruit a top prospect, but I bet he wouldn't guaranteed him a starting position. Nor would Nick or Dabo. My guess it was that more than money that determined where he was going.
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Old 06-23-2022, 02:14 PM   #2638
JPhillips
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Ewers better be good. I doubt he has a second year as a starter at UT.
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Old 06-23-2022, 03:04 PM   #2639
cartman
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
Ewers better be good. I doubt he has a second year as a starter at UT.

Saw something earlier today that since 247 Sports started ranking high school prospects in 2000, only three QBs have ever gotten a perfect 1.000 composite score:

Vince Young
Arch Manning
Quinn Ewers
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Old 06-23-2022, 04:49 PM   #2640
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I read somewhere (hell - it may have been here) that most folks felt that Arch Manning will likely not be swayed on where to attend school by NLI because he will probably be the first or one of the first college players that will be high profile enough to have national endorsements. He's probably going to have shoe/car manufacturer/insurance company/etc deals rather than whichever local gym/restaurants/car dealerships or whatever.
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Old 06-25-2022, 09:19 AM   #2641
Edward64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cartman View Post
Saw something earlier today that since 247 Sports started ranking high school prospects in 2000, only three QBs have ever gotten a perfect 1.000 composite score:

Vince Young
Arch Manning
Quinn Ewers

Vince Young and that Texas vs USC game was the best.

It is unfortunate that so many great college QB turn out to be mediocre (or not as great) in the NFL.

Last edited by Edward64 : 06-25-2022 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 06-25-2022, 01:00 PM   #2642
Vegas Vic
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USC commit Malachi Nelson, the #2 overall recruit in the 2023 class, just signed an NIL deal with an LA based hospitality firm reportedly in the 7-figure range.

USC Trojans QB recruit Malachi Nelson and the new NIL world for prep superstars
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Old 06-26-2022, 09:32 PM   #2643
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Ewers better be good. I doubt he has a second year as a starter at UT.
Given the other oddities in how they've treated Arch's recruitment I think he could be the rare top QB/family these days who is okay redshirting or being a backup as a true Freshman. Your scenario could very well play out too, but since Ewers can't leave for the NFL after this season I don't think it's crazy to think they could overlap for one season.
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Old 06-28-2022, 02:23 PM   #2644
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Beginning next season, the ACC will eliminate their divisions, with each team playing three permanent rivals, in a 3-5-5 format. So a team will get to play every other team at least twice every four years. I really like this, and hopefully the SEC will do something similar. It's ridiculous that some teams only play each other once every seven years.

ACC to drop divisions for format with permanent rivalries in 2023
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Old 06-28-2022, 04:01 PM   #2645
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It's just a rumor, but it seems to have some legs. Jaden Rashada just signed with Miami. He's a quarterback who would be a welcome addition just about anywhere.

The rumor is that Miami offered an NIL package worth $9.5 million and that other schools were even offering more money.

To put that in perspective, that would be the four-year complete compensation for an end-of-first-round NFL draft pick. Or about equivalent to the signing bonus that the 13th overall pick just took home.

And nothing apparently prevents him from turning around next year and doing the same thing with his free transfer.

This transition period to acknowledging that major college basketball and football players are, indeed, professional athletes who should be compensated is getting very interesting.

Michigan recently gave athletes permission to use Michigan trademarks, I'd guess with some restriction (no porn sites, maybe?).

But is all this sustainable? It's seemingly a lot like the perceived value of the NFT market, with superfans able to participate by purchasing players for their favorite teams. At some point, you have to worry about organized crime and fixing games. The NCAA simply doesn't have any hope of getting any measure of control of this.

There has to be some sort of CBA at some point. But then how are players allocated to teams?
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Old 06-28-2022, 04:23 PM   #2646
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Oh goody, something to make ACC football even LESS interesting.

GT gets what it judged the toughest trio of permanent opponents (Clemson, Louisville, Wake: 60% winning percentage in the playoff era) while Pitt gets a kiss (BC, Syracuse, Va Tech: 38% winning percentage)

Tech is a great example of why I hate this change. Set aside Clemson for distance reasons, the closest thing to rivals in the ACC they've had are Miami, FSU, and probably Va Tech (who Will thought of, I didn't).

Those become occasional opponents in return for seeing Louisville and Wake every year. I can't think of ANYBODY who gives two shits about seeing Louisville in football, outside of Louisville.

If I actually cared -- hell, if GT actually cared about fielding a competitive football team-- I'd be highly pissed.

As it is, I'll just shake my head in light disgust.
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Old 06-28-2022, 04:30 PM   #2647
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There has to be some sort of CBA at some point. But then how are players allocated to teams?

Allocation probably solves itself largely once there's only 30-40 teams playing in a league that would draw those kinds of dollars.

And it won't be promotion/relegation -- which you could kinda makes SOME sense of for teams 21-60 -- it'll be the closed model proposed for the soccer Superleague (or whatever it was called).
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Old 06-28-2022, 04:38 PM   #2648
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But is all this sustainable? It's seemingly a lot like the perceived value of the NFT market, with superfans able to participate by purchasing players for their favorite teams. At some point, you have to worry about organized crime and fixing games. The NCAA simply doesn't have any hope of getting any measure of control of this.

The market will adjust I'm guessing as more data comes in. We still see adjustments being made in other leagues when it comes to the value of players. Running backs are seeing their value decline in the NFL. MLB has put more value into velocity and strikeouts for pitchers. NBA putting more value into shooters and less into post players.

There is less risk of organized crime and fixing games when players make more money. So that actually alleviates the issue.

Not sure who a CBA would be between as these deals are not being consummated by the schools. Maybe for licensing rights. But you'd think the players would negotiate separately with the companies for those like they do in other leagues. I believe EA for instance gets the rights for the team separately than from the players.
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Old 06-28-2022, 04:42 PM   #2649
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Allocation probably solves itself largely once there's only 30-40 teams playing in a league that would draw those kinds of dollars.

And it won't be promotion/relegation -- which you could kinda makes SOME sense of for teams 21-60 -- it'll be the closed model proposed for the soccer Superleague (or whatever it was called).

It is kind of that way now but they have to throw a bone to the smaller schools from time to time to avoid antitrust issues.

Still think their best path is to break off from the NCAA and form their own super league. Like you said, probably 30-40 teams and they don't have to split revenues with the mid-majors. That would cover the powerhouses and all the major media markets.
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Old 06-28-2022, 05:02 PM   #2650
JonInMiddleGA
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It is kind of that way now but they have to throw a bone to the smaller schools from time to time to avoid antitrust issues.

Still think their best path is to break off from the NCAA and form their own super league. Like you said, probably 30-40 teams and they don't have to split revenues with the mid-majors. That would cover the powerhouses and all the major media markets.

Yeah, I'm not really seeing any reason for the 30-40 to agree to a promotion/relegation scheme.

And for the remainder, does it really even matter at that point?

Gonna end up with a whole bunch of oversized stadiums in a whole bunch of places.
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