2013 Pro Football HOF Voting

[bhlloy]

Seeing as the baseball thread is going so well, it's time for football!

Lifted directly from Yahoo Sports, here are the finalists:

Larry Allen: 11-time Pro Bowl guard/tackle for the Dallas Cowboys (1994-2005) and San Francisco 49ers (2006-07) who was named a member of the NFL's All-Decade team for the 1990s and 2000s.

Jerome Bettis: Six-time Pro Bowl running back for the Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams (1993-95) and Pittsburgh Steelers (1996-2005). Ranked fifth all-time with 13,662 rushing yard at the time of his retirement.

Tim Brown: Nine-time Pro Bowl wide receiver/return specialist with the Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders (1988-2003) and Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2004). When Brown retired, he ranked second in NFL history with 14,934 receiving yards and was fifth all-time with 19,682 combined yards.

Cris Carter: Eight-time Pro Bowl wide receiver with the Philadelphia Eagles (1987-89), Minnesota Vikings (1990-2001) and Miami Dolphins (2002). Ranked second in receptions (1,101) and receiving touchdowns (130) at the time of his retirement.

Curley Culp: Six-time Pro Bowl defensive tackle with the Kansas City Chiefs (1968-74), Houston Oilers (1974-80) and Detroit Lions (1980-81).

Edward DeBartolo, Jr.: Owned the San Francisco 49ers from 1977-2000. During that time, the 49ers won 13 division titles, appeared in 10 NFC Championship games and became the first franchise to win five Super Bowls.

Kevin Greene: Five-time Pro Bowl linebacker/defensive end with the Los Angeles Rams (1985-92), Pittsburgh Steelers (1993-95), Carolina Panthers (1996, 1998-99) and San Francisco 49ers (1997). Totaled 160 sacks during his career, which was third-most in league history at the time of his retirement.

Charles Haley: Five-time Pro Bowl linebacker/defensive end with the San Francisco 49ers (1986-91, 1999), Dallas Cowboys (1992-96). Only player in NFL history to play on five Super Bowl winning teams. Finished his career with 100.5 sacks.

Art Modell: Owned the Cleveland Browns from 1961-95 and Baltimore Ravens from 1995-2011. NFL president from 1967-69, played key role in creation of Monday Night Football in 1970.

Jonathan Ogden: 11-time Pro Bowl left tackle for the Baltimore Ravens (1996-2007). Selected as part of the NFL All-Decade team of the 2000s.

Bill Parcells: Head coach of the New York Giants (1983-90), New England Patriots (1993-96), New York Jets (1997-99) and Dallas Cowboys (2003-06). Amassed a 172-130-1 record during the regular season and 11-8 in the post-season. Won two Super Bowls (XXI, XXV) with the Giants and was the first coach to lead four different organizations to the playoffs. NFL Coach of the Year in 1986 and 1994.

Andre Reed: Wide receiver for the Buffalo Bills (1985-99) and Washington Redskins (2000). Selected to seven consecutive Pro Bowls (1989-95) and was third all-time with 951 receptions at the time of his retirement. Remains the Bills' all-time leader with 941 receptions and 13,095 receiving yards.

Dave Robinson: Three-time Pro Bowl linebacker with the Green Bay Packers (1963-72) and Washington Redskins (1973-74). Key member of Packers team that won three NFL championships from 1965-67 and that won Super Bowl I and II. Finished his career with 27 interceptions and was named to the NFL All-Decade team of the 1970s.

Warren Sapp: Seven-time Pro Bowl defensive tackle with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1995-2003) and Oakland Raiders (2004-07). Was named the 1999 NFL Defensive Player of the Year and was selected as part of the NFL All-Decade team of the 1990s and 2000s. Finished his career with 96.5 sacks.

Will Shields: 12-time Pro Bowl guard with the Kansas City Chiefs (1993-2006). Started 223 of 224 games and was named to the NFL's All-Decade team of the 2000s.

Michael Strahan: Seven-time Pro Bowl defensive end with the New York Giants (1993-2007). Posted six double-digit sacks seasons, including an NFL single-season record 22.5 in winning the NFL Defensive Player of the Year award in 2001. Finished his career with 141.5 sacks and was named to the NFL's All-Decade team of the 2000s.

Aeneas Williams: Eight-time Pro Bowl cornerback/safety with the Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals (1991-2000) and St. Louis Rams (2001-04). Played cornerback for 12 seasons, earning seven Pro Bowl nods, before switching to safety, where he would add an eighth Pro Bowl selection. Finished his career with 55 interceptions, nine of which were returned for touchdowns.

Sapp, Strahan, Allen and Ogden are first time eligible

My five:

Sapp
Ogden
Strahan
Parcells
Haley

There's a lot of talent coming out, I feel bad for Carter and Brown both who deserve to be there. Feel like Larry Allen gets there eventually but not sure he's better than the 3 other first timers.

[lighthousekeeper]

Cool. You should make this a poll.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If I understand the process correctly there technically isn't a vote for 5 per se, but that's the max number of standard nominees that gets in, so I'll just run with that number ...

From this list I'd go with
Parcells, DeBartolo, Sapp, Ogden and ... (hmm) Haley.

Tough since there's several others that I wouldn't have a problem seeing get in too.

[Logan]

Definitely a strong class.

I'll tell you one thing...no chance in hell Strahan doesn't get in with his recent media work on his side.

[lighthousekeeper]

wow - that's a pretty involved/inefficient process.

[bhlloy]

Poll is up, and yeah as Jon points out it's not 5 per se - they whittle it down to 5 plus the 2 veterans committee choices, and then they vote with 80% the benchmark

[spleen1015]

You guys really think Warren Sapp is a HoFer? I guess I don't remember him correctly. I remember him as someone who talked a lot of shit but never followed it up, like saying he was going to break the sack record then only getting 6 sacks.

[Chief Rum]

I picked five, and that's it, but I could have picked another 5 easily, if I wasn't keeping myself to a limit.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

You guys really think Warren Sapp is a HoFer? I guess I don't remember him correctly. I remember him as someone who talked a lot of shit but never followed it up, like saying he was going to break the sack record then only getting 6 sacks.

To be fair, it's not like getting sacks from the DT position is all that easy.

[Chief Rum]

The one guy who my heart wants to be in there most, but whom I know I couldn't put in yet with these other players on the list is Kevin Greene.

It's easy to forget over the years how much he affected games from his OLB position. Most remember him from later in his career, with the Steelers, but I mostly remember him from the Rams, when he was pretty much their leader on D during the Everett-Flipper-Ellard playoff years.

Just an incredibly fun player who was impossible to not like or root for.

[bhlloy]

Sapp completely redefined the position, there's no way he's not a mortal lock. He'd be #2 on my ballot behind Ogden

[Blackadar]

There are a lot of worthy guys on that list. My prediction on who gets selected:

Allen - The OL with the "most dominant" reputation from his era and played for the most high-profile team. Even though he wasn't part of most of the Super Bowl championships, the Cowboys did win in 1995 (his 2nd season) and will probably be the last of that group to get inducted.

Bettis - Curtis Martin, who had only about 400 yards more than Bettis, got in last year. Every guy above him is in and the 7 guys on the rushing list below him are in. Bettis, who is in his 3rd year of eligibility, has more than earned his spot in the HoF. Considered one of the good guys of the sport, this is his 3rd year of eligibility. The 3rd time is the charm.

Carter - I think this one is long overdue. Eligible and worthy receivers are starting to stack up. It's time the doors started cracking open for recievers and that begins with Chris Carter. That Michael Irvin (750/11,904/65tds) is in and Carter (1101/13,899/130tds) is not fucking absurd.

Strahan - The sack record (thanks Farve) plus 140 sacks plus his media work gets him in.

Modell - The backlash against not inducting Modell into the HoF before he died earlier this year will get him inducted now. He may be a hated man in Cleveland, but the AFL/NFL merger nor the TV deals wouldn't have happened without him. If any non-player gets in this year, it's Modell.

Again, not that Sapp, Shields, Ogden, Parcells, Williams and others aren't worthy. But the guys above are either more worthy, have been waiting longer, play for higher profile teams, won Super Bowls, etc.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The one guy who my heart wants to be in there most, but whom I know I couldn't put in yet with these other players on the list is Kevin Greene.

It's easy to forget over the years how much he affected games from his OLB position. Most remember him from later in his career, with the Steelers, but I mostly remember him from the Rams, when he was pretty much their leader on D during the Everett-Flipper-Ellard playoff years.

Just an incredibly fun player who was impossible to not like or root for.

Looking like Hulk Hogan was also a bonus.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Looking like Hulk Hogan was also a bonus.

Just another reason to love watching him play, lol!

[JPhillips]

The should be ashamed not to have Steve Sabol as a finalist.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The should be ashamed not to have Steve Sabol as a finalist.

Ed got in back in 2011.

I'm not saying that Steve isn't worthy, but I don't see anyone who didn't come from the veterans committee on the nominee list that I'd drop off in favor of Steve Sabol.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

You guys really think Warren Sapp is a HoFer? I guess I don't remember him correctly. I remember him as someone who talked a lot of shit but never followed it up, like saying he was going to break the sack record then only getting 6 sacks.

Im with you. I think he should eventually get in but a lot of better choices are out there in this class,

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Sapp completely redefined the position, there's no way he's not a mortal lock. He'd be #2 on my ballot behind Ogden

He did?

I thought it was John Randle and Cortez Kennedy that did that.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Ed got in back in 2011.

I'm not saying that Steve isn't worthy, but I don't see anyone who didn't come from the veterans committee on the nominee list that I'd drop off in favor of Steve Sabol.

They should have entered as a pair, but Steve needs to be in the Hall. He's enormously important to the history and popularity of the game as well as a groundbreaker in terms of filming sporting events.

I think the Sabols deserve an honorary Oscar for their innovation.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He did?

I thought it was John Randle and Cortez Kennedy that did that.

Maybe Randle, but I don't think either of those guys played the gap and got up the field as quickly and caused as much disruption as Sapp did. A lot of what the Tampa 2 was able to do was due to the pressure up the middle Sapp got on almost every single play IMO

[stevew]

Jerome Bettis is the Harold Baines of football. Hopefully he keeps missing

[Abe Sargent]

Mine:

Allen
Parcells
Carter
Sapp
Shields
Strahan

in that order

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by stevew

Jerome Bettis is the Harold Baines of football. Hopefully he keeps missing

Was Harold Baines fifth all-time in hits or home runs when he retired? I missed that. I think there is something to be said for sustained excellence. Bettis had some great seasons but was at least very good for a long time.

The pro football HOF voting process is horrific. If you've never read about the process, it's worthy reading about. Makes the baseball HOF voting process look downright progressive and cutting edge. They are still in the process of trying to put in vets at a time when they have probably the greatest influx of talent ever coming in, and they limit themselves to 4 to 7 inductees ever year.

Only Robinson and Culp are borderline. DeBartolo doesn't belong on the list. He had very little to do with the reign of the Niners. He wasn't innovative in any way, and in the end the NFL had to take the team away from him due to his illegal shenanigans.

[PackerFanatic]

I think Sapp and Strahan will be first-timers. Parcells will probably get in this year too.

[DougW]

Allen, Parcels, Carter, Shields, Ogden.

No particular order.

Shields needs more love. Holmes and LJohnson had an awesome stretch running behind him, and even the Allen/Hill combination was pretty effective.

[stevew]

Can this poll be made public?

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by stevew

Jerome Bettis is the Harold Baines of football. Hopefully he keeps missing

Yeah, right. Did you forget to take your meds today?

[BYU 14]

Definitely a strong class and someone undeserving will get bumped

My 5
Carter
Bettis
Parcells
Ogden
Strahan

Sapp, Shields and Allen are deserving too

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Yeah, right. Did you forget to take your meds today?

I would have gladly given up #5 to se his career end on that fumble.

[Danny]

I vote no on Sapp for now. He was a lazy tub o lard in his time with the Raiders. He was great with Tampa though.

[Atocep]

I appear to be in the minority but I prefer Tim Brown to Chris Carter. Although I think they both belong.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I appear to be in the minority but I prefer Tim Brown to Chris Carter. Although I think they both belong.

I agree, but I am biased as a Raiders fan.

[johneh]

FUCK MODELL !

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I appear to be in the minority but I prefer Tim Brown to Chris Carter. Although I think they both belong.

I think Brown was more of a game changer but CC brought it every game and was as reliable as any WR in the game during his career. I can remember him dropping very few passes that would be considered routine.

They can both be in my HOF but CC is 1a with Parcells on this years ballot in my opinion.

[MrBug708]

Edward DeBartolo, Jr
Kevin Greene
Larry Allen
Jonathon Ogden
Warren Sapp

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by stevew

I would have gladly given up #5 to se his career end on that fumble.

Ok Steve, I'll bite. Why the hatred for one of the good guys of the sport and (obviously) one of the better running backs in history?

[stevew]

Notre Dame= incompatible with being a good guy.

Was Bettis ever like a top 5 running back in more than one or two seasons he played in? There's no way he was ever the best back in any given season. Something like 6 of 9 of his years he averaged less than 4ypc. We were never going to win anything with him as a lumbering fat back, yet he was revered by the fans and he wasn't that great. Funny how the Steelers finally started to win super bowls again after he was relegated into a footnote of the offense.

[claphamsa]

I voted for 3, since only 3 deserve it. ogden parcells, and allen.

that model is even on the list discredits the list. hes is the most worthless POS in an industry dominated by POS people. I was at ravens stadium right after he died... the worshiped the shit that is him, very pathetic. GRRR

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by stevew

Notre Dame= incompatible with being a good guy.

Was Bettis ever like a top 5 running back in more than one or two seasons he played in? There's no way he was ever the best back in any given season. Something like 6 of 9 of his years he averaged less than 4ypc. We were never going to win anything with him as a lumbering fat back, yet he was revered by the fans and he wasn't that great. Funny how the Steelers finally started to win super bowls again after he was relegated into a footnote of the offense.

Notre Dame = one of the best sports programs in the NCAA. Led the GSR rankings 6 of the last 7 years. Just because you couldn't get in doesn't mean you have to be a hater.

Bettis was top 3 in rushing 3 times in his NFL career, so that's more than "one or two times". 6 Pro Bowls, 2 All-Pros and, of course, some great career statistics that "lumbering, fat backs" simply don't get. Widely regarded as the best "big back" in NFL history because those guys don't last very long. Let me know when you want to provide some facts to back up your assertion.

As for his YPC, look at who was under center most of his career - Kordell Stewart. Bettis faced more 8 and 9 man fronts than probably any RB in modern history because the Steelers couldn't throw the ball worth a damn. They were bottom-5 in passing yards something like 5 out of first 6 seasons Bettis was with the team. The man put the team on his enormous shoulders and carried them to the playoffs on a number of occasions with shitbags under center (Stewart, Graham). That they got as close as they did to the Super Bowl with guys like that taking the snap says something about the other aspects of those teams - namely the running game and defense.

The Steelers only started winning Super Bowls when they got a QB who could actually play. Bettis was a huge inspiration that 2005 Super Bowl year, even if he wasn't much of a contributor.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Bump

Sapp, Parcells, Ogden, Allen, Carter, Culp and Robinson in

I can't speak for Culp and Robinson, don't know much about them.

Carter should have been already.

Ogden and Allen were the best at their positions for multiple years.

Parcells, I'm lukewarm on...but I'm luekwarm on most coaches. Too much blame when things go bad, too much credit when things go right.

But Sapp...can't wrap my head around him being a first ballot guy.

[RedKingGold]

Really surprised Strahan didn't get in.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Really surprised Strahan didn't get in.

Voters had to be thinking if we vote him in people will say it was a popularity contest, so I'll vote for Sapp instead. Really embarrassing to me that Sapp is in before Strahan.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by rowech

Voters had to be thinking if we vote him in people will say it was a popularity contest, so I'll vote for Sapp instead. Really embarrassing to me that Sapp is in before Strahan.

fucking joke

[StLee]

I was right on 3 of the 5 regulars: Allen, Parcells, and Sapp. I also thought Brown and Strahan. I don't know why I didn't think Ogden over Brown, though. Maybe because I just liked Brown and don't know remember what exactly Ogden did to stand out over other OL.

[MrBug708]

Sapp deserved to be there before Strahan IMO

[Simbo Klice]

Had it exact except for having Tim Brown over Larry Allen. The HOF really hates on WR's, glad to see Reed and Carter finally in.

[DougW]

Originally Posted by Simbo Klice

Had it exact except for having Tim Brown over Larry Allen. The HOF really hates on WR's, glad to see Reed and Carter finally in.

Don't think Reed got in.

[Simbo Klice]

Originally Posted by DougW

Don't think Reed got in.

Huh, I could have sworn I saw him being reported as in on ESPN, but it looks like it's Parcells who's the 5th one. Must've been my subconcious.

[spleen1015]

I'm glad Cris Carter got in. Not surprised Sapp got in. I have always viewed him as way over rated.

[DanGarion]

Perfect.

You guys underrate the Vets...