12 years ago, Kurt Cobain had a pretty bad headache...

[MrBug708]

...he was only 25 years old too...

[Fidatelo]

Actually he was 27 when he killed himself in '94.

[CamEdwards]

wow. Kurt Cobain would be almost 40. That's weird to think about.

[Poli]

I still remember the bad joke we told in school about this...

Kurt's eyes were blue.

One blew this way, the other blew that way.

Don't know if they were blue or not...but the joke circulated regardless.

[st.cronin]

that's why I say:

hey man, nice shot

[Fidatelo]

This made me think; when was the last time a big-time rockstar/celebrity died? It seemed like in the 90's it happened all the time (Cobain, Tupac, Biggie, the Blind Melon guy, etc). And from what you hear it used to happen a lot back in the day as well (I'm too young to really know). But I can't remember anyone dying 'at the top of their game' in years now.

Am I just not hip enough to recognize when big stars are dying now? Or have hard drugs become safer? Should I be rethinking my stance on heroin?

[Kodos]

Shotguns have become safer.

[st.cronin]

Obviously, the difference is the Republicans have the White House.

[Neon_Chaos]

Cobain, is, unfortunately, overrated.

[VPI97]

Has anyone else Gus Van Sant's Last Days? It was billed as being loosely based on or "influenced" by Cobain's suicide, but I thought it was just another shitty movie.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Cobain, is, unfortunately, overrated.

if you don't know anything about music please don't make retarded statements like this.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Cobain, is, unfortunately, overrated.

Ouch...can't say i agree.

[Kodos]

I'll agree with Neon.

Kurt sux.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I still remember the bad joke we told in school about this...

Kurt's eyes were blue.

One blew this way, the other blew that way.

Don't know if they were blue or not...but the joke circulated regardless.

My two "favorite" jokes of this type (forgive the old references):

Did you hear Grace Kelly was on the radio? Yeah, and on the dashboard and on the winshield...(can be used for Lady Di, too)

What kind of wood doesn't float? Natalie Wood.

[st.cronin]

I don't know about overrated, but, like Thurman Munson, he was clearly past his prime.

[Anthony]

Nevermind is one of the top 10 most important rock albums of all time. hwo is Cobain overrated.

i don't care, i'll argue this till you see the light. i'm not letting these retarded comments go unchallenged. i'm not even the biggest Nirvana fan (only liked Nevermind), but i give props when props are due.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I don't know about overrated, but, like Thurman Munson, he was clearly past his prime.

past his prime??? a 27 year old who made one of the most influential albums of all time? if he was a 40 year old today he'd make a hit album with songs that are of nothing but his voice and him strumming the curly strands of pubic hair on his nuts.

i hate revisionists, seriously.

[Kodos]

If the only music in existence was written by Kurt Cobain, I would give up listening to music.

[Anthony]

ok, now you're just being silly. i'll reply to you when you're ready to be serious.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Actually he was 27 when he killed himself in '94.

Damn, his body was there for 3 days? I know for a fact the news didn't break until the 8th. I recall quite vividly because it was my birthday.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

past his prime??? a 27 year old who made one of the most influential albums of all time? if he was a 40 year old today he'd make a hit album with songs that are of nothing but his voice and him strumming the curly strands of pubic hair on his nuts.

i hate revisionists, seriously.

Bleach > Nevermind > whichever crappy albums came after that > unplugged

Revisionist? I remember listening to that unplugged album and feeling sad. It's not my fault he wasted his talent and was washed up at 25 or however old he was ... but he was most definitely washed up.

[Neon_Chaos]

I just feel that Nirvana and the entire Cobain (and Nirvana) cult-like following really only took off and went APESHIT BIG when he killed himself.

I'm not saying that Nirvana isn't good. Nirvana was a great band.

It's Cobain who's overrated. His suicide adds to this illusion of his "greatness".

The guy QUIT on life. Come on. I really can' t say much for someone who quits on life.

[Kodos]

In my opinion:

Kurt Cobain was a talentless hack. His lyrics were unintelligible; his singing voice was horrid; he made it fashionable for an entire generation to feel sorry for itself. The only song of his that I like at all is "All Apologies". Others may feel differently. Nobody is right or wrong.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Bleach > Nevermind > whichever crappy albums came after that > unplugged

Revisionist? I remember listening to that unplugged album and feeling sad. It's not my fault he wasted his talent and was washed up at 25 or however old he was ... but he was most definitely washed up.

Actually the best album is "In Utero"

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Kodos

In my opinion:

Kurt Cobain was a talentless hack. His lyrics were unintelligible; his singing voice was horrid; he made it fashionable for an entire generation to feel sorry for itself. The only song of his that I like at all is "All Apologies". Others may feel differently. Nobody is right or wrong.

Bob Dylan didn't enunciate so well either...so I would have to disagree...I didn't find all Nirvana worthwhile or substantial, but some of it was in what it did and how it influenced the next generation...you cannot discount Nirvana and Cobain even if you didn't like him...or at least you shouldn't.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Actually the best album is "In Utero"

No it isn't. Despite what Kodos says, I am right and you are wrong.

Oh, the other thing about Nirvana: They never get enough credit for totally ripping off the Pixies.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

No it isn't. Despite what Kodos says, I am right and you are wrong.

Oh, the other thing about Nirvana: They never get enough credit for totally ripping off the Pixies.

and who influenced the Pixies?

cough Husker Du cough...

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

and who influenced the Pixies?

Mark Twain? Pumpy Tudors?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

and who influenced the Pixies?

cough Husker Du cough...

The Supremes

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Did you hear Grace Kelly was on the radio? Yeah, and on the dashboard and on the winshield...(can be used for Lady Di, too)

What were Lady Di's limo driver's first words when he woke up from his coma?
"Hey, I don't remember 'Candle in the Wind' going like that!"

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Kodos

In my opinion:

Kurt Cobain was a talentless hack. His lyrics were unintelligible; his singing voice was horrid; he made it fashionable for an entire generation to feel sorry for itself. The only song of his that I like at all is "All Apologies". Others may feel differently. Nobody is right or wrong.

well, that's close but not quite right. HA is clearly wrong.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Kodos

In my opinion:

Kurt Cobain was a talentless hack. His lyrics were unintelligible; his singing voice was horrid; he made it fashionable for an entire generation to feel sorry for itself. The only song of his that I like at all is "All Apologies". Others may feel differently. Nobody is right or wrong.

Sums up my thoughts. Never liked him. Never will. Blowing his head off and leaving his wife and child behind to suffer the aftermath (and given how Courtney Love's been doing since, I'd say I'm understating a bit) just clinched the argument for me. He may have had a great influence and was popular, but that doesn't mean he was great. Sure, it'll mark me as uncool to say this, but then I was never part of the "cool" or "in" crowd when I went through high school and this stuff hit the fan anyway.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

No it isn't. Despite what Kodos says, I am right and you are wrong.

Oh, the other thing about Nirvana: They never get enough credit for totally ripping off the Pixies.

and if the Pixies were all that good they'd have been Nirvana before Nirvana was Nirvana. i've heard one or two Pixies songs and i was not impressed in the least. one of those bands whose aura/legacy is bigger than their actual contribution.

[NoMyths]

Nirvana was an incredibly important band to me. Nevermind is the most important album of the 90's. I find it hard to take people seriously who can't recognize the influence they had, but mostly I chalk it up to them not knowing much about really anything.

I remember when I turned 28, it freaked me out that I was older than Cobain. Saw Nirvana during their last tour and it was a hell of a good time.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Nirvana was an incredibly important band to me. Nevermind is the most important album of the 90's. I find it hard to take people seriously who can't recognize the influence they had, but mostly I chalk it up to them not knowing much about really anything.

i'm the exact same way. keep in mind Nirvana isn't even my in top 10 favorite bands, but i respect their contribution to rock and music as a whole and acknowledge the impact Cobain had on an entire generation. to say anything else is to reveal how little one knows about music - personal tastes aside. i don't like the Beatles but even i acknowledge they are what they are - the greatest rock band and greatest songwriters of all time. true lovers of music look beyond their own likes and dislikes.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Bob Dylan didn't enunciate so well either...so I would have to disagree...I didn't find all Nirvana worthwhile or substantial, but some of it was in what it did and how it influenced the next generation...you cannot discount Nirvana and Cobain even if you didn't like him...or at least you shouldn't.

Nirvana and Cobain had some good stuff, and were certainly influential. But they didn't come close to earning the level of reverance they have. Very very overrated.

They had a couple good albums and, like almost every other band in history, they would have followed them up with some mediocre albums to balance things out. Instead, Cobain offed himself and the band is held on a pedestal.

If Perry Ferrell had died after Nothing's Shocking, Jane's Addiction would be revered in the same light. Instead, they had a so-so album, broke up, formed bad side bands, put together a crappy leftovers album, and regrouped to put out a monstrously bad album. They are remembered as a band that had some great moments, but not one of the all time greats, and that's how Nirvana/Cobain would be remembered as well if he hadn't been such a coward.

[Qwikshot]

Frankly, I don't mourn Kurt Cobain. I remember the shock of hearing of his death, but MTV made it seem like he was John Lennon which even I knew was far from correct. His death was a tragedy but not unexpected, after all he attempted with pills in Italy just prior, he clearly was not long for this world.

That being said, Nirvana was a huge influence on bands. They filled the gap at a time when the music scene was becoming excessively bad, to a point that it has still yet to recover from Rap and Hip Hop taking the charts. And while they "woe is me" is a little overdoing it, I think Cobain was trying hard to remain untainted by fame and money (he failed). He certainly never looked like he was enjoying what he was doing.

To say his vocals sucked, or that lack of guitar vituosity is to remove the main reasons why he influenced bands to a point that today it's overkill on the feelings.

Whether or not you found him talented, his band filled a void and ended up influencing a generation, and for those who say he ripped off the Pixies, least that was the influence, I couldn't go through another hair band revival.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i'm the exact same way. keep in mind Nirvana isn't even my in top 10 favorite bands, but i respect their contribution to rock and music as a whole and acknowledge the impact Cobain had on an entire generation. to say anything else is to reveal how little one knows about music - personal tastes aside. i don't like the Beatles but even i acknowledge they are what they are - the greatest rock band and greatest songwriters of all time. true lovers of music look beyond their own likes and dislikes.

The fact that I'm agreeing 100% is in no way a reflection on my personal distate for your sandwich habits.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i've heard one or two Pixies songs and i was not impressed in the least. one of those bands whose aura/legacy is bigger than their actual contribution.

like, say, Nirvana?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

like, say, Nirvana?

no, if all Nirvana did was release Nevermind mind (which many here claim they only did) that's enough to put them in the Pantheon. Sex Pistols only had one album and it was enough to reserve them a spot.

Nevermind was a very important album in music. i don't care about Cobain's views on life or where his head was at - i'm talking strictly music.

[DeToxRox]

Nirvana was not even the best band from his own city at the time.

Alice in Chains was vastly superior musically, as were Soundgarden and especially Mudhoney.

Nirvana is not a good band. They're decent at best. Right place, right time is all that comes to mind when I think of Nirvana. Teen angst? I'd say more or less teen stupidity. There were bands much before Nirvana who were better musically and stood for something that didn't get bigger because people weren't ready for a change (See Bad Brains). Granted in the case of BB, they became obsessed with Jai and all that but they were Nirvana before Nirvana.

Rant off.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Nirvana was an incredibly important band to me. Nevermind is the most important album of the 90's. I find it hard to take people seriously who can't recognize the influence they had, but mostly I chalk it up to them not knowing much about really anything.

Agreed...I think it's just that people don't remember what music was like back then. You had great, intelligent bands before Nirvana, but many of them toiled away in obscurity because the radio waves were filled with hair bands and the like. No one is saying Nirvana invented "indie" rock (nor were they necessarily the best band out there), but their success helped pulled hundreds of bands out of the local clubs and onto labels. In turn that pulled local labels onto the national scene...and then the national labels started to look at a wider range of music. It was a great situation for many, many bands.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

no, if all Nirvana did was release Nevermind mind (which many here claim they only did) that's enough to put them in the Pantheon. Sex Pistols only had one album and it was enough to reserve them a spot.

Nevermind was a very important album in music. i don't care about Cobain's views on life or where his head was at - i'm talking strictly music.

Sex Pistols, like Nirvana, were all image. Musically they weren't anything special. They just had a hook. Cobain was the depressed, haunted grunger, while Rotten and co were ditball, sleezebags people loved to talk about. Not much is ever said about their music.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Agreed...I think it's just that people don't remember what music was like back then. You had great, intelligent bands before Nirvana, but many of them toiled away in obscurity because the radio waves were filled with hair bands and the like. No one is saying Nirvana invented "indie" rock (nor were they necessarily the best band out there), but their success helped pulled hundreds of bands out of the local clubs and onto labels. In turn that pulled local labels onto the national scene...and then the national labels started to look at a wider range of music. It was a great situation for many, many bands.

Remember that Nirvana was influenced by many 80's hardcore punk bands. Hell, Dave Grohl was a drummer in one of those bands before Nirvana and he credits their sound to all of them. Nirvana did nothing revolutionary, they just got lucky.

[chinaski]

the callous dipshittery of this thread is really making me sad.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Bob Dylan didn't enunciate so well either...so I would have to disagree...I didn't find all Nirvana worthwhile or substantial, but some of it was in what it did and how it influenced the next generation...you cannot discount Nirvana and Cobain even if you didn't like him...or at least you shouldn't.

Tell me you aren't comparing the greatest songwriter of the last 50 years with Kurt Cobain - please.

[DeToxRox]

And so far as the "scene" Nirvana created, I am hard pressed to find many bands of the same "scene" to acknowledge Nirvana as an influence. If anything most of the modern rock acts like System of a Down acknowledge Faith No More and such as their influences.

[Abe Sargent]

First of all, there is definitely an phonomenon here in America where we have a tendancy to deify people who die in tradegy early. JFK was not nearly as good a President as some feel, when his son recently died you would not be faulted for thinking that our country had lost a prince instead of a magazine owner, Janice Joplin was not so good an artist, and so forth.

Has Cobain been lifted by his death? Obviously, and to deny that people think more highly of Cobain after he died than before he died would be to deny reality. To listen to some reports and read some articles you would have thought that Cobain was the Christ of Rock come to save our souls.

Likewise, to deny that Cobain had influence on his generation of musicians and fans would also be to deny reality. Cobain was a very influential musician as the head and voice of Nirvana.

The question many rightfully ask is how much of Cobain's "legacy" is due to him shooting himself, and how much is real? That's a legitimate question to ask whenever someone tragically dies.

There is also a question of talent and art. Kraftwerk may be a monumentally influential group, but their music just isn't that good at the end of the day. It would certainly be consistent with reality to argue that Nirvana, although influential, did not produce that good music. It would also be consistent to argue that Niravana was both influential and made good tunes. This particular argument is relegated to the sphere of opinion.

-Anxiety

[Crapshoot]

dola, The Clash - now they were amazing. Before my time - but wow.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Tell me you aren't comparing the greatest songwriter of the last 50 years with Kurt Cobain - please.

I don't think anybody mentioned Johnny Cash


-Anxiety