The 2018 World Cup Calcutta Pool

[cartman]

Hey everyone,

There was interest expressed in the 2014 thread about firing this up again. Let's see who all is interested and get one going!

Current entrants:
cartman
kingfc22
Karlfornia
Critch
digamma
bhlloy
QuikSand
HomerSimpson98
hahnkim
Arles

From digamma's explanation of how it works:

It would involve real units of currency, so if that's not your thing, feel free to skip the rest.

At its most basic level, a Calcutta pool is an auction where teams are bid on and the auction winners of those teams hold them for the tournament and receive any proceeds the team wins from the pool.

More specific rules:
-Teams are drawn at random and put up for bid.

-Auction order is not announced in advance. The next team up for bid is drawn only prior to the next auction starting.

-Since we would be doing this online, we would have a set time limit for bidding, say one hour (we could adjust depending on feedback). You can also expect to have the bidding be done during the business day in the United States.

-Minimum bids are $1 and must increase in at least $1 increments.

-Payouts are as follows:
0% for losing in the group stage;
2.5% for losing in the round of 16;
5% for losing in the round of 8;
10% for losing in the semi-finals;
15% for losing in the final;
25% for winning the World Cup.

FOFC specificities:

-Looking for 6 to 10 participants. More than that, it becomes unwieldy and probably not that attractive unless the bidding gets crazy.

-These could be individuals or "syndicates." If you go in with a group, you will have to appoint a single bidder to avoid confusion.

-To do this with ample time, I think the latest we could start the bidding is on Thursday.

-Syndicates/Participants will need to paypal auction amounts to me to be paid out as part of the pool.

-I will run this and participate and use the whole benevolent dictator thing to settle any disputes.

Fire away with specific questions or let me know if you are interested (but do not feel compelled to tell me why it doesn't work for you--I trust you.).

My idea is that to have the most up to date info before bidding, we'll run the auction from Mon-Thur of next week, with the matches starting on Friday.

We'll bid on 8 randomly chosen teams each day, with the bidding staring at 11am Central and stopping around 7pm Central each day. To eliminate the potential for sniping at the end, I'm thinking that there might be a random cut off time between 6:30pm and 7pm.

[kingfc22]

In

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by cartman

Hey everyone,

There was interest expressed in the 2014 thread about firing this up again. Let's see who all is interested and get one going!

From digamma's explanation of how it works:



My idea is that to have the most up to date info before bidding, we'll run the auction from Mon-Thur of next week, with the matches starting on Friday.

We'll bid on 8 randomly chosen teams each day, with the bidding staring at 11am Central and stopping around 7pm Central each day. To eliminate the potential for sniping at the end, I'm thinking that there might be a random cut off time between 6:30pm and 7pm.

IN!!!

[Critch]

If we're reserving places, I'm in too.

[digamma]

Can't wait.

[bhlloy]

I’m interested

[QuikSand]

yasss

[dacman]

Originally Posted by cartman

.. with the matches starting on Friday.

So, Russia-Saudi Arabia doesn't count? Yeah, that sounds about right.

[cartman]

Oops, I could have sworn when I checked the schedule they played the first game on Friday. So a semi-random draw, with the Russians and the Saudis appearing on Mon, Tue, or Wed.

[HomerSimpson98]

in

[kingfc22]

I looked at the previous version and didn’t see any bids in the thread.

Is it done via PM?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

I looked at the previous version and didn’t see any bids in the thread.

Is it done via PM?

No, there is a daily bid thread where people post their bids.

[hahnkim]

I'm in again.

[Arles]

I'll join if there is still a spot.

[cartman]

sure thing! The more the merrier

[Arles]

Minor request for Day 2-4: Can we end at 6:30 PM Central (instead of 7). Reason is I leave work at 6:30 and have an hour car ride home. So, I will need to be bidding in traffic otherwise

Tonight is OK, as I happened to be working until 7.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Arles

Minor request for Day 2-4: Can we end at 6:30 PM Central (instead of 7). Reason is I leave work at 6:30 and have an hour car ride home. So, I will need to be bidding in traffic otherwise

Tonight is OK, as I happened to be working until 7.

If there are no objections, we'll move it back to 6:30 Central tomorrow, Wednesday, and Thursday.

[Arles]

Thanks Cartman

[Arles]

This was like the old days of Ebay

[cartman]

As with last time, any side deals should be posted in this thread. Don't have to give the nitty gritty details, just that a deal was made.

For the first side deal, hahnkim and I worked out a deal to split ownership of England 50/50.

[Arles]

I've agreed with hankim to split ownership of Morocco 50/50.

[hahnkim]

I confirm both these deals.

[britrock88]

So sad I forgot about this until now. Will be watching with interest!

[kingfc22]

HomerSimpson98 and I have agreed on a 50/50 split of Iceland & Nigeria

[HomerSimpson98]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

HomerSimpson98 and I have agreed on a 50/50 split of Iceland & Nigeria

agreed!

[hahnkim]

I've sold 25% of Brazil to bhlloy

[bhlloy]

Yup!

[QuikSand]

So, for next time we try something like this...is there a way to improve on the betting system? In concept we have bidding open all day, but for entries of any value, all that matters is the last two or three minutes. If there were a more auction-inclined website we could use...even if we had to do things as a proxy... that would be cool.

[Karlifornia]

You mind like a blind auction? I'm not sure how much better that would be.

I will say last World Cup I put in a price-driving bid for England in the morning, assured someone would outbid me. Nobody wound up outbidding me, and I just stuck with them for three harrowing matches.

[QuikSand]

I’m not sure what I want. Just frustrated that two Cups in a row, I’ve planned to play but came away totally empty handed, largely due to the game structure.

In fantasy league auctions, a new leading bid resets a new clock...I guess we could do that here, too.

[Karlifornia]

Yeah, I understand the frustration. The strategy behind bidding is definitely castrated. I know there's a better way out there. The resetting clock could be a help. Anyone have any novel ideas?

[kingfc22]

Or maybe have something along the lines of this. Post a one-hour window for closing bids. Then use a random number generator to decide what is the final bid or set of bids of the day.

[QuikSand]

Here's an out-there idea. Yahoo! runs mock drafts, set up as auctions.

If 10-12 of us signed up for a scheduled mock auction, we could do a real time draft, with everyone using a cheat sheet telling is what NFL players corresponded to what World Cup teams. Someone throws out Michael Crabtree, we all look down at our notes to see that means **Egypt**, and then we use their infrastructure to bid in real time (with live clock, and an extension for each new bid, etc) on those players.

Tedious, and would require everyone to be available for the same time window (a couple of hours?) but it would give us a legit auction for each side.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Or maybe have something along the lines of this. Post a one-hour window for closing bids. Then use a random number generator to decide what is the final bid or set of bids of the day.

This was something that I was wanting to do for the auction. But couldn't nail down the mechanics of it. It would involve a neutral party that would keep the closing time secret.

[cartman]

Here are the results from the bidding. The overall pool is $1,147. Here are the payouts:

Group Stage	$0.00
Make Final 16	$28.68
Make Round of 8	$57.35
Make Semifinals	$114.70
Lose Final	$172.05
Win World Cup	$286.75

Here's the bidding broken down by individual

country		bid 	owner	notes										
Argentina	$71	Arles											
Croatia		$39	Arles											
Morocco		$7	Arles	50% Arles / 50% hahnkim										
Tunisia		$3	Arles											
		$120												
													
Uruguay		$58	bhlloy											
Sweden		$18	bhlloy											
Saudi Arabia	$3	bhlloy											
		$79												
													
Portugal	$60	cartman											
Poland		$55	cartman											
Senegal		$30	cartman											
		$145												
													
Russia		$38	digamma											
		$38												
													
Brazil		$105	hahnkim	75% hahnkim/25% bhlloy										
Spain		$85	hahnkim											
England		$57	hahnkim	50% hahnkim/50% cartman										
Serbia		$23	hahnkim											
Japan		$10	hahnkim											
Korea		$5	hahnkim											
Iran		$1	hahnkim											
Peru		$15	hahnkm											
		$301												
													
France		$89	HomerSimpson98											
Denmark		$34	HomerSimpson98											
Mexico		$31	HomerSimpson98											
Switzerland	$22	HomerSimpson98											
Iceland		$15	HomerSimpson98	50% HomerSimpson98 / 50% kingfc22										
Panama		$4	HomerSimpson98											
		$195												
													
Belgium		$84	Karlfornia											
Australia	$5	Karlfornia											
		$89												
													
Germany		$92	kingfc22											
Colombia	$46	kingfc22											
Nigeria		$15	kingfc22	50% kingfc22/ 50% HomerSimpson98										
Egypt		$15	kingfc22											
Costa Rica	$12	kingfc22											
		$180												
										

There are a couple of different ways to get the money to me. One is PayPal (emailme at greggowins.com) and I'm also on Venmo (@greggowins). If there is another transfer method you'd like to use, let me know and I'll see what I can do to get on that platform.

[albionmoonlight]

The main problem to solve is that, for any auction, it is rational for people to keep their real bids secret until the end. The only real window that matters is the last five minutes.

Some mechanism where the entire auction took place at the same time (will still be shorter than a fantasy football auction) and people always had a chance to outbid the highest bid until there was no more bidding would seem to solve the problems.

There's got to be some website that has auction software that you can pay to be on, right?

[kingfc22]

Oooof...This result could lead to a potential Brazil v. Germany in the round of 16.

[thealmighty]

Do it like Hattrick.



Every bid adds another 2-3 minutes to the bid window, so your 6:30 bid is not the end after a higher 6:30 bid because the 6:30 bid extended the time limit.

[digamma]

Today I like Russia more than Trump likes Russia.

[Arles]

Whelp, glad I hedged and got Croatia after this Argentina poop fest.

[HomerSimpson98]

To my untrained eyes, Croatia seems to be the most impressive up to this point. Having said that, how much is that due to the group they're in? Argentina looks like shit and indifferent.

[bhlloy]

I’m not sure it is... I’d agree with you and if you look at the midfield and forwards, I’d say you can argue they are one of the top four teams in the tournament. Not as much depth as some other teams maybe, but they are at least well coached which you can’t say about teams like Argentina, France and Belgium.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

To my untrained eyes, Croatia seems to be the most impressive up to this point. Having said that, how much is that due to the group they're in? Argentina looks like shit and indifferent.

Nigeria is a pretty good team (just ask Iceland) and Croatia handled them pretty easily too. Croatia was my big sleeper in the World Cup and they have the talent to make a run. A lot depends on matchups, but I think they are one of the top 5 teams at this point.

[kingfc22]

Ruh roh...

[kingfc22]

Glad I could donate to the cause

[cartman]

I hate the FIFA Fair Play tiebreaker

[hahnkim]

Originally Posted by cartman

I hate the FIFA Fair Play tiebreaker

I hate it too, but happy it worked out for me.

[cartman]

I’m currently on the road with my dad driving to Florida to help my sister and kids move back to Texas. I’ll get the amounts done tomorrow for review, then send the winnings tomorrow evening.

[kingfc22]

I’ll need to wait 4.5 years to attempt to break even

[cartman]

Sorry for the delay. Here is list of winners. Please review and verify. For the winners, let me know how to distribute your winnings. Thanks to everyone who participated!

		Team		Amount	Owner	
Out of Group	Portugal	$28.68	cartman	
Out of Group	Argentina	$28.68	Arles	
Out of Group	Mexico		$28.68	HomerSimpson98	
Out of Group	Japan		$28.68	hahnkim	
Out of Group	Spain		$28.68	hahnkim	
Out of Group	Denmark		$28.68	HomerSimpson98	
Out of Group	Switzerland	$28.68	HomerSimpson98	
Out of Group	Colombia	$28.68	kingfc22	
Quarterfinal	Uruguay		$57.35	bhlloy	
Quarterfinal	Brazil		$57.35	hahnkim (75%)	bhlloy (25%)
Quarterfinal	Russia		$57.35	digamma	
Quarterfinal	Sweden		$57.35	bhlloy	
Semifinal	Belgium		$114.70	Karlfornia	
Semifinal	England		$114.70	hahnkim (50%)	cartman(50%)
Lose Final	Croatia		$172.05	Arles	
Win Final	France		$286.75	HomerSimpson98	

HomerSimpson98	$372.79
Arles		$200.73
hahnkim		$157.72
bhlloy		$129.04
Karlfornia	$114.70
cartman		$86.03
digamma		$57.35
kingfc22	$28.68