Werewolf: XIV Spawn (GAME OVER! Please give feedback)

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

VOTE all survivors

Well that's me

[Raiders Army]

Now that I'm a ghost, I have a bunch of bruises where someone kicked me numerous times. I'd like to find that person, but I doubt I'll find him up here with me in Heaven.

[hoopsguy]

OK, not going to have as much access today as I did over the last couple of days when I was home sick. Events this morning went down about how I thought they would, given the gag order.

My course of action would have been very clear if Vince had come back from the scan and said I was spawn. But no such luck.

Vince could have been infected while curing Raiders. This is listed in the role description (Post #1) and has been cited by me earlier in the game for being suspicious of Vince.

Long examination Day Only The doctor may choose to examine any crew member. If the crew member is a survivor, the doctor will learn this. If the crew member is infected, but has not yet become a spawn, the doctor will learn this, and will cure the crew member. If the crew member is a spawn the doctor will have a chance to cure the crew member. There is also a chance that the doctor and/or crew member will die or that the doctor will become infected. 2 AP

Let's look at his actions since that day:
Clear Schmidty
Fail to revive Raiders
Clear Penny/Lathum
Clear Me/KWhit

Seems like he is having a run of bad luck here. Everyone he looks at is clean. Which is how the spawn have to play the doctor role, since they can't get in a one-for-one trade without having the advantage of numbers.

Mr. Wednesday is easy for us to determine tonight - no water. If he is dead tomorrow then it is pretty clear he was telling the truth about Vince. MrW, if you are a survivor then we all appreciate your sacrifice, as it should go a long ways towards us winning this game. If you are spawn, then you will be lynched tomorrow and have gone a long way towards clearing Vince. But I don't think trades like this make sense for spawn, so I'm inclined to believe you.

I'll be able to supply water for six people tonight. We will lynch someone today and everyone who did not get water today (besides MrW) will be re-hydrated, if that is a word, tomorrow. If this is not the case, then someone changed my orders.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Now that I'm a ghost, I have a bunch of bruises where someone kicked me numerous times. I'd like to find that person, but I doubt I'll find him up here with me in Heaven.

I be in Davy Jones's locker.

[hoopsguy]

With the security crew being dehydrated and exhausted today (in part because my water orders were modified, as I gave water to two of them, not one), I'm expecting an attack on me tonight. Right now I consider this their biggest risk - that I rotate water evenly and keep just about the entire crew alive so we can efficiently root them out. Having the security crew dehydrated and exhausted helps with their rolls.

So since Passacaglia is the only security guy who is not dehydrated, I've got a different approach. Let me know if you think this makes sense:

Dump me in the Brig tonight. That means I can't guard the water, but it also means there are only three people who can eliminate me.
- there is more than one spawn left
- at least one of MrW and Vince are spawn. We find out about MrW if he is alive tomorrow
- we try to lynch a spawn today
- put me in the cell with the three remaining players that you most suspect of being spawn. If I'm dead it makes it pretty clear who to target going forward
- Pass guards the water. Hopefully there is not a spawn outside of the brig to attack it

If I die in the water, we still have at least eight people who got water yesterday around to continue the fight. That number assumes we lynch someone today who got water last night and that the random number generator is as brutal as it can possibly be. And we should have a good lead on the remaining spawn if I'm not here.

If I'm alive tomorrow then I can keep the remainder of the crew alive as long as the water is protected. Placing spawn suspects in the Brig helps with keeping the water protected.

Are there any tremendous flaws in my argument? If so, please jump in and let me know.

[pennywisesb]

Thats good analysis Hoops. I keep going back and forth on the issue.

SnDvls, I really couldn't find any good evidence against you and for the most part your posts seem to clear you in my book eventhough you haven't been officially checked out by anyone that I know of.

As far as Vince being converted, I guess that makes sense. His arguments from the beginning have been that he couldn't have been converted after liftoff because conversions can't happen--well thats true as far as attacks go, but not in the case of trying to cure someone. Obviously, we'll know tomorrow because if Mr. W. dies of dehydration, he was telling the truth and Vince gets lynched tomorrow.

The more and more I think of it, it wouldn't make sense for Mr. W to make a claim like that given his impending situation. At this point I think he's telling the truth and that Vince probably is spawn.

[pennywisesb]

I agree that hoops should be put into the brig, and now we need to agree on who the other 3 should be.

If Vince is proven to be spawn, it would make sense why he was so adamant on reviving RA and not letting him die so that I could be promoted to Nurse. I think he was scared that if I was promoted to nurse he would be scanned the first chance I got. Now he delayed that process an entire day. It also makes sense why he scanned KWit after 3 of us could have vouched that he was a survivor. By scanning KWit, he basically wasted a scan. Just throwing out new revelations I've had.

[SnDvls]

hoops - thank you finally some logic. I agree with you assement of the situation. Do we sacrafice Mr. W then to clear/damn Vince?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

I agree that hoops should be put into the brig, and now we need to agree on who the other 3 should be.

If Vince is proven to be spawn, it would make sense why he was so adamant on reviving RA and not letting him die so that I could be promoted to Nurse. I think he was scared that if I was promoted to nurse he would be scanned the first chance I got. Now he delayed that process an entire day. It also makes sense why he scanned KWit after 3 of us could have vouched that he was a survivor. By scanning KWit, he basically wasted a scan. Just throwing out new revelations I've had.

Problem is the vote is like 4-0 against me...you wont have a brig tonight boys

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Problem is the vote is like 4-0 against me...you wont have a brig tonight boys

can't the commander switch the vote, yes I know that triggers a mutiney vote, but no one should vote to mutiny in this case.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Problem is the vote is like 4-0 against me...you wont have a brig tonight boys

I think people need to take their votes off of Blade. I think its very important to put Hoops in the brig.

[MrBug708]

My DSL is out and Im at an internet cafe right now but

Vote - Vince

[hoopsguy]

SnDvls, I think we have to sacrifice MrW in order to validate/refute his charge. I'm glad that RealDeal did not change my water allocation in terms of giving him water because I thought we could be headed down this path.

Blade - if you want to live for tomorrow I would suggest starting to work up a case for a lynch today.

This is who we should NOT lynch today because it hampers our strategic value for tonight/tomorrow:
Me - water allocation
Blade - want to have the brig at least one more night
MrW - no water will claim him, or else he is lynched tomorrow
Vince - we'll have our answer on him tomorrow one way or the other
KWhit - because we don't have this option (barring mutiny)
Pass - want him to guard water tonight. If he is alive and water is damaged then he is spawn. Would suggest someone order him to do this, actually.

[hoopsguy]

Pennywise is probably not a good lynch candidate either, as the nurse.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Lathum

OK, this alone makes me suspiscous of blade, that is a pretty weak argument. I belive my post in the other thread was

I would have voted for realdeal...

BUT I WAS AT WORK AND MISSED THE VOTE!!

VOTE BLADE

You have missed 3 scans...you could have submitted an order for it right now when you were on...did you??? no...your hurting the team...thats what im saying...and this confirms your around enough to give the order but arent intrrogating anyways

[hoopsguy]

My initial thoughts on who should be in the brig with me: Vince and Lathum. Third is up in the air - do we want to put someone from the security team in there if we think they are spawn? If they are not spawn, then they can help defend, even in their weakened condition.

From Post #1, on attacking rooms:

If the target of an attack is a room, is protected, and the only protector dies, there is a chance damage will be done to the room.

Defending the room with a phaser, even when exhausted and dehydrated, could still ensure that there is water available for tomorrow.

The spawn only need one successful attack against the water plant to hurt us, since no new water can be added when the water filter is damaged. The good news is that we have engineers available to fix this if the spawn are able to successfully attack it.

If the Slayer is still alive and on the outside tonight the Captain may be worth considering as your protect. But I'm thinking that Vince might have (had, if spawn now) that role, which helped him fend off attacks while in the brig.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade - if you want to live for tomorrow I would suggest starting to work up a case for a lynch today.

Ive made cases for just about everyone except the absolute trust(still dont get why he scanned kwhit)...hell, i presesnted all the evidence against me...im ok dying if it validates me...Question is how many guys do we have left...give 2-3 spawn and if they hit our water supply we could be even numbers real quick...should we really give them another day? Why not lynch one of vince and W(prob. w) today, decide water after that ensuring that the allies of the bad guy dont get any...that way we can maximise survivors recieving water, and we still have the clear path for tomorrow...but it would ensure the right people get water tonight

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

Ok, so there was evidence, so do you have any ideas how Vince could have been converted to spawn after you cleared him since you are stating now that he's spawn?

My hypothesis is that RA was spawn, and Vince became infected in the process of curing RA. Remember, there was the chance of infection during the cure attempt, and all checks to date had preceded that event.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

I can't, and so I'm inclined to think Mr. Wed. is definately spawn and is just trying to get the doctor lynched.

I'm not, though. I've encouraged you all to take a shot at the other spawn today and revisit Vince tomorrow, how does that square with trying to get the doctor lynched? My suggestion is your best course of action: If I'm telling the truth, you still have a shot at the other spawn and you can take down Vince tomorrow. If I'm lying, then the doctor is still alive.

I would generally be OK with dumping Blade; I'm not sure whether I should be reading Vince's vote as an attempt to get rid of another innocent, or as a reverse psychological ploy where we would not expect him to kick off voting against his fellow spawn. I'm leaning toward the former but not completely discounting the possibility of the latter.

[hoopsguy]

If water and I survive the night we all have water for tomorrow. No one will die of thirst if those two conditions are met.

I'm not advocating lynching either of those two tonight because I'm hoping that MrW is lying while preparing to see that he is telling the truth.

And Blade - don't go dying to validate yourself

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If water and I survive the night we all have water for tomorrow. No one will die of thirst if those two conditions are met.

I'm not advocating lynching either of those two tonight because I'm hoping that MrW is lying while preparing to see that he is telling the truth.

And Blade - don't go dying to validate yourself

Its brutal, but i think water could be a nice tool...give it only to six-7 people...lt the rest die off, and take those you trust with you...if any who didnt get water survive, kill em...if that doesnt win it, then you have a little 4-2 5-1 vote you need to make...but right now were at like 12 people which is a lot of people they can hide behind...but again, thats what i would do and that doesnt matter since im dead tonight, so i cant put ya in the brig...i can order it if youd like, but it wouldnt matter

[Mr. Wednesday]

Even though Vince's clearance of them becomes suspect, I'm still on board with the absolute trust. The only thing I'm really wondering about is whether Vince wound up examining (and giving a false clear) to the other spawn, or if he's been fortunate enough to not have to do that.

As far as the brig discussion goes... I'm not sure you should be putting Vince in there with hoops. Me either, for that matter... if you're trying to invite an attack, you want it to be from somebody who isn't part of a pair that's going to produce the lynch for tomorrow.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If water and I survive the night we all have water for tomorrow. No one will die of thirst if those two conditions are met.

I'm not advocating lynching either of those two tonight because I'm hoping that MrW is lying while preparing to see that he is telling the truth.

And Blade - don't go dying to validate yourself

So why dont we lynch mr w? that way we have a clear path...why wait for the night actions? If hes lying, you will know...if hes not, you will know...why wait? take a random stab and prob kill a survivor(me) over one of the two claiming the other is a spawn??...

[hoopsguy]

Works well, as long as you are right. Plus it is basically putting the game in one person's hands, which isn't really the point of WW games. These are supposed to be collaborative. I want to win, but I also want everyone to share in the fun of playing rather than using my role as a hammer. Might not be able to do both at some point in the game ...

[Mr. Wednesday]

I personally think it would be a better idea to take a shot at another spawn and reduce the water demand further. I'm already not getting a water ration tonight, another lynching will both offer a shot at the other spawn and eliminate one more choice as far as water goes.

[hoopsguy]

Because MrW is already dead, for all intents and purposes. So why not take a shot at another spawn tonight?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Works well, as long as you are right. Plus it is basically putting the game in one person's hands, which isn't really the point of WW games. These are supposed to be collaborative. I want to win, but I also want everyone to share in the fun of playing rather than using my role as a hammer. Might not be able to do both at some point in the game ...

At that point i might be to late...and the duke role wouldnt be around if the hammer wasnt supposed to be used...remember the x-com game...its a hammer all right

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I'm not, though. I've encouraged you all to take a shot at the other spawn today and revisit Vince tomorrow, how does that square with trying to get the doctor lynched? My suggestion is your best course of action: If I'm telling the truth, you still have a shot at the other spawn and you can take down Vince tomorrow. If I'm lying, then the doctor is still alive.

I agree with you. The quotes you are quoting were before you started giving analysis that has actually swayed me to think along your lines. So far I am agreeing with everything you've said.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Blade seems to be forgetting that the officers can issue orders regarding water distribution.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Because MrW is already dead, for all intents and purposes. So why not take a shot at another spawn tonight?

I see that point...i dont think this is possible, but what if w and vince are the two spawn left?? That would be soo brutal, as one way or another we will end up trusting one of them...that would be a nice play by the spawn

[Mr. Wednesday]

Among the folks that Vince has cleared, the only ones I actually have any suspicion towards are Schmidty and Lathum.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Blade seems to be forgetting that the officers can issue orders regarding water distribution.

If an officer is willing to do it, then thats all good...but i thought they had to do it before he did...with the brig, they had to order it before i sent it or i could do what i wanted

[Mr. Wednesday]

Blade, if that were the case, you could use pennywise to scan Vince.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Even though Vince's clearance of them becomes suspect, I'm still on board with the absolute trust. The only thing I'm really wondering about is whether Vince wound up examining (and giving a false clear) to the other spawn, or if he's been fortunate enough to not have to do that.

As far as the brig discussion goes... I'm not sure you should be putting Vince in there with hoops. Me either, for that matter... if you're trying to invite an attack, you want it to be from somebody who isn't part of a pair that's going to produce the lynch for tomorrow.

i still dont get why your discussing brig when its 3-0 on me

And for clarification, those 3 are:
Lathum - someone ive been accusing, who despite now confirming hes around has not used his power...scanned by vince
Vince - w claims hes spawn...
Realdeal - someone vince doesnt want to scan, says he trusts him...supported vince heavily on day 3

Those three arent connected

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Blade, if that were the case, you could use pennywise to scan Vince.

thats assuming penny gets nurse...barkeep said there is a chance, not a dead set fact he will become nurse every day

[hoopsguy]

Negative - I still think we scan Vince tomorrow with Penny's first scan even if MrW is alive and kicking without water tomorrow. If Vince is cleared at that point he has two more we can use over the course of the day. That would establish absolute faith in both healers for the rest of the way, as they would have cleared each other. By running the short exams, they would not run any chance of infection, but would take a spawn out with them.

[Passacaglia]

Yeah, I'd suggest ordering me to do it, too. Then the blame won't be on me if it doesn't get done!

[hoopsguy]

I'm worried about lynching RealDeal or Lathum tonight. If KWhit is killed, we want to have the ability to run a mutiny at a later date, if need be. If one of RealDeal or Lathum is a spawn, and we guess the wrong one, then they have a clear path to the Captains seat and we can't mutiny without an officer.

[hoopsguy]

On Pennywise as nurse - Post #2236 from Barkeep:

One person who does look well is Pennywisesb who after taking a look at some of the books is confident that he will be able to master the duties of a Nurse starting tomorrow.

Sounds like he is a nurse tomorrow. It is possible that I'm misinterpreting this, but it sounds like the roll has already been made here.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

On Pennywise as nurse - Post #2236 from Barkeep:


Sounds like he is a nurse tomorrow. It is possible that I'm misinterpreting this, but it sounds like the roll has already been made here.

id love barkeep to confirm this, becuase if so thats wonderful news

[hoopsguy]

OK, so I'm having a hard time with my lynch vote, because many of the people I suspect (Blade, Vince, MrW, Lathum, Schmidty, Fouts, SnDvls) have roles to play this evening, either directly or as insurance against someone else.

We need security people for tonight, but hopefully not too many if we are doing the right thing with the brig. So I would probably go with one of Schmidty, Fouts, or SnDvls. I've listed them in order of most suspicious to least suspicious based on my gut feel.
- Schmidty: still having a hard time justifying Hive Mind vote for him over spawn Marc back on Day 2. Inactive for majority of this game. Cleared by Vince doesn't hold much stock at the moment.
- Fouts: never solidly cleared by anyone
- SnDvls: never solidly cleared by anyone

Going to look up some info on Fouts vs SnDvls ...

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm worried about lynching RealDeal or Lathum tonight.

Does this mean you want to lynch one of them tonight?

[RealDeal]

Vince was clear up until the RA scan, so if he went bad that's where he went bad.

The problem is that I trust Mr. W and I trust Vince, but obviously one of them is lying. Right now, I'm leaning toward trusting Mr. W because he is willing to give himself up and what he says is verifiable.

If there's a better choice to lynch than Blade, let me know. I'm not married to the idea of killing him, although I'm definitely not sad if that's the route we go either.

[hoopsguy]

Post #464: MarcV/Schmidty vote
Neither one of these two voted

Vote Tally
Marc Vaughan (7) -- Dubb, Lathum, Mr. Wednesday, Mr Bug, pennywisesb, Raiders Army, Schmidty
Schmidty (7) -- Ardent, hoopsguy, jeff, King, KWhit, Saldana, Vince

Post #1022 is where it is revealed that Dubb is a spawn, but we do not have any vote tally in that post. Will try to dig that up - know I collected it at one point.

I do recall Fouts fighting pretty hard to attack Vince (who we suspect was still good doctor at this point, only lost to us when he worked on RA) here but I want to see the votes to know where SnDvls stood.

[hoopsguy]

Pennywise, no I would prefer not to lynch one of them tonight. If one is spawn, and we kill the wrong one, then we have the spawn captain scenario.

If both are spawn, they will eventually kill the captain and guarantee a spawn captain scenario.

If neither is spawn, then good for the crew for not lynching them tonight.

Unless someone is positive about one of them being spawn (ie - scan) I am not looking to lynch one of these two tonight.

[Blade6119]

im going to play some Americas Army for a bit now...might get bored of being sooo talented and come back in a bit...kill me if you will, just hope you take to heart who the first three to vote for me were while mr. w hasnt...when you find out im good that should give you the same path as what w dying will tell you

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

I think people need to take their votes off of Blade. I think its very important to put Hoops in the brig.

My last hope before i leave...

[hoopsguy]

Post #1007 has votes close to the deadline.

Dubb (8)-- Ardent, hoops, jeff, lathum, mr.bug, real, saldana, schmidty
Vince (5)-- blade, dubb, fouts, king, penny
Penny (2)-- Pass, Vince

KWhit moved his vote to Dubb and King changed his from Vince to Dubb.

Fouts voted for Vince, but SnDvls did not vote again?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Like a flash people start to think back to yesterday. They now recall Real Deal going up to Hoopsguy and giving him some instructions about the water list. And so this morning, who appeared to have gotten water, wasn't who actually got water.

Indeed the poeple who are actually dehydrated are:
Mr.Wednesday
Vince
hoopsguy
Fouts
Schmidty
sndlvs

My apologies to Real and hoops but I forgot that Real had sent in some orders about the water list. I should have posted Real giving the orders yesterday but failed to do so.

Ok. This post right here condemns Realdeal. He has the power to kill the entire security crew (and he probably will tomorrow when he orders us to die of thirst). I cannot stand by and let him kill off the security crew. In this way, he is a threat to us all

Vote Realdeal

[RealDeal]

Fouts, you were on the no-water list anyway. The only difference between my list and hoops was Sndvls.