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Old 02-17-2015, 11:00 AM   #401
Raven
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Does anyone want to highlight each of the Sheriff candidates?
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:08 AM   #402
The Jackal
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Working in space successfully(?) as a volunteer for two years vs decades of research, study, teaching, and planning .. the choice is yours
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:10 AM   #403
JAG
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Hey, we'll certainly need people with experience to help put things together. The point of being the lead engineer is to plan the projects, to ensure that every last detail is accounted for. How many projects have you designed?

I'm looking forwards to working with you, however there are levels of complexity in design that practical experience alone cannot give you.

But Saldana actually organized city planning, so by that admission, his expertise would be useful setting up the colony. Your knowledge is probably a little more theoretical. Then again, this is a new environment and not like traditional coy planning, so that could be useful. Sticking with sal for now, might switch later.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:12 AM   #404
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Working in space successfully(?) as a volunteer for two years vs decades of research, study, teaching, and planning .. the choice is yours

I agree, also I don't think Grover should lead because his knowledge of engineering and science makes him a flexible option to put into whichever area needs more oomph, science or engineering, whereas if he leads, he's locked down to a role.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:16 AM   #405
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Working in space successfully(?) as a volunteer for two years vs decades of research, study, teaching, and planning .. the choice is yours

I would assume there was much research, studying, and planning before the actual working in space part...
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:16 AM   #406
The Jackal
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But Saldana actually organized city planning, so by that admission, his expertise would be useful setting up the colony. Your knowledge is probably a little more theoretical. Then again, this is a new environment and not like traditional coy planning, so that could be useful. Sticking with sal for now, might switch later.

City planning may certainly be a useful skill, however I still maintain that the complexities of engineering projects in space require a highly disciplined and researched foundation/approach. Planning on a broad scope and practical experience are cogs in the overall machine that will be my vision for our survival and success.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:17 AM   #407
The Jackal
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I would assume there was much research, studying, and planning before the actual working in space part...

Perhaps, though it sounds like he was one of the ones who helped put someone else's work into practical effect. Important person to have, yes - but to design and lead?
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:20 AM   #408
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Can I retract votes and go back to an abstaining position at this point?

Or do I have to vote for someone else to move my vote?
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:26 AM   #409
The Jackal
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I'm pushing on a two-fold front here:

1) I believe it's vital that we have the right people in charge of the projects. While some of the positions vs people's history may be unclear, and we do not have personal knowledge of each other - there are places where informed decisions can be made, and this is one of them. Do we elect the first person to indicate a modicum of experience in a field just because they spoke up first?

2) I've spent a career sharing my knowledge with others, and it's time to use it to help us survive. I fully believe I am the right person for this assignment and have no compunction asserting it.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:26 AM   #410
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Just for fun... I saw this article today.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/17/tech/mars-one-final-100/
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:27 AM   #411
Shoveler
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Leader: No Vote
Doctor: No Vote
Scientist: No Vote
Engineer: No Vote
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:27 AM   #412
saldana
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Can I retract votes and go back to an abstaining position at this point?

Or do I have to vote for someone else to move my vote?

just type

unvote XXXXXX for president

or whatever it is that you want to change
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:31 AM   #413
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As of post 412

Leader
DanGarion 4 - timmae (247), DanGarion (296), Grover (307), The Jackal (393)
fontisian 3 - fontisian (292), Autumn (319), ntndeacon (383)
CrimsonFox 2 - britrock88 (210), CrimsonFox (312)
Zinto 2 - Zinto (265), JAG (361)
No Vote 2 - Thomkal (231), Shoveler (411)

Scientist
timmae 7 - britrock88 (210), timmae (247), DanGarion (296), Grover (307), JAG (361), ntndeacon (383), The Jackal (393)
Raven 3 - Zinto (265), fontisian (292), Autumn (319)
Narcizo 1 - CrimsonFox(355)
No Vote 1 - Thomkal (231), Shoveler (411)

Engineer
Grover 7 - britrock88 (210), timmae (247), Zinto (265), fontisian (292), DanGarion (296), Grover (307), Autumn (319)
saldana 3 - CrimsonFox (355), JAG (369), ntndeacon (383)
The Jackal 1 - The Jackal (393)
No Vote 1 - Shoveler (411)

Sherriff
britrock88 5 - britrock88 (210), Zinto (265), fontisian (292), ntndeacon (383), The Jackal (393)
Thomkal 3 - DanGarion (296), Grover (307), CrimsonFox (330)
Shoveler 2 - Shoveler (246), timmae (247)
JAG 2 - Autumn (319), JAG (361)
No Vote 1 - Thomkal (231)

Doctor
Autumn 6 - britrock88 (210), Thomkal (231), Zinto (265), Autumn (319), JAG (366), The Jackal (393)
Chief Rum 4 - timmae (247), fontisian (292), DanGarion (296), Grover (307)
ntndeacon 2 - CrimsonFox (297), ntndeacon (383)
No Vote 1 - Shoveler (411)

Project
Biodome 6 - Thomkal (231), DanGarion (296), CrimsonFox (297), Grover (307), Autumn (319), The Jackal (393)
Government 5 - britrock88 (210), Shoveler (246), timmae (247), Zinto (265), fontisian (292)
Science Center 1 - JAG (361)
Medical Center 1 - ntndeacon (383)

Yet to Vote
Chief Rum, Suicane75, Schmidty, saldana, GoldenEagle, Raven, Danny, Narcizo, SharkN20
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:35 AM   #414
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I'm pushing on a two-fold front here:

1) I believe it's vital that we have the right people in charge of the projects. While some of the positions vs people's history may be unclear, and we do not have personal knowledge of each other - there are places where informed decisions can be made, and this is one of them. Do we elect the first person to indicate a modicum of experience in a field just because they spoke up first?

2) I've spent a career sharing my knowledge with others, and it's time to use it to help us survive. I fully believe I am the right person for this assignment and have no compunction asserting it.

while i agree with your first point (note that i was the one questioning why people were voting 24 hours ahead of the deadline when half the people werent here yet) i find your second to be highly biased and dismissive of reality.

you have no practical experience doing anything, whereas i have spent a career actually planning and building exactly what we need here.

its the difference between having a black belt in Karate (which would be me), and having watched a lot of Jean Claude Van Damme movies, and then telling people how to do Karate without doing it yourself (which would be you)

I am not saying you would not be a useful member of the engineering team, i just dont think we need a classroom mind to lead it.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:54 AM   #415
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Remind me what your experience is, saldana? Not disputing it, just wanted a recap.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:04 PM   #416
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I would assume there was much research, studying, and planning before the actual working in space part...

Thank you, sir. This much is incredibly true. Sure, my colleague Mr. Jackal may have decades or eons of ability in the classroom sharing his knowledge and using it to better students or enriching the lives of all he touched, how much application practice has he had?

Engineering is also a VERY broad term. What type of Engineering is Jackal a professor of? Chemical? Structural? Do we want a potential chemical engineer in charge of planning our building projects?

As far as saldana goes, yes he's done terrific work designing and planning for cities... on earth. What does he know about living and working in space? Much like Jackal he doesn't have the experience or knowledge that this Astronaut has.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:09 PM   #417
saldana
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Remind me what your experience is, saldana? Not disputing it, just wanted a recap.

i was a city planner in a major city on Earth
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:10 PM   #418
saldana
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As far as saldana goes, yes he's done terrific work designing and planning for cities... on earth. What does he know about living and working in space? Much like Jackal he doesn't have the experience or knowledge that this Astronaut has.

you lived in a tube that was 6 feet in diameter...exactly what experience or knowledge did that impart upon you that would help you build a settlement on a planets' surface?
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:12 PM   #419
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Catching up on 4 pages or so here, may not have time to comment right now though, but will be back later.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:19 PM   #420
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you lived in a tube that was 6 feet in diameter...exactly what experience or knowledge did that impart upon you that would help you build a settlement on a planets' surface?

Space survival, mate. Having to design and then execute plans to repair parts of the ISS. Space walks, working in low gravity.

What has living on earth and designing buildings for an Earthern atmosphere your entire life done to help build a settlement on a planets' surface?
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:22 PM   #421
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I see that we are arguing for the person with the most experience in the engineering and medical field but we are ignoring it when it comes to the leader position.

Right now we have a professor and someone who hasn't claimed a past job in the lead. We should be looking for people with skills in leading people. I can do that
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:28 PM   #422
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Space survival, mate. Having to design and then execute plans to repair parts of the ISS. Space walks, working in low gravity.

What has living on earth and designing buildings for an Earthern atmosphere your entire life done to help build a settlement on a planets' surface?

so you repaired something that someone else built (granted in a unique environment) and you that qualifies you to design, coordinate and build a settlement on a planet that is a completely different environment, much more similar (while still vastly different) to what I know than anything you know.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:33 PM   #423
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so you repaired something that someone else built (granted in a unique environment) and you that qualifies you to design, coordinate and build a settlement on a planet that is a completely different environment, much more similar (while still vastly different) to what I know than anything you know.

cant edit, so i have to quote,but this was a question...no way in my mind being an astronaut teaches you how to make a building that can withstand the harsh environment on this plant...its not like you BUILT the ISS or anything.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:34 PM   #424
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i was a city planner in a major city on Earth

And how does city planning on earth qualify you to design facilities or even cities in a completely different environment?

I have studied the practical creation and implementation of facilities in all environments known to the human race, and have spent most of my life instructing others so that they can go forth and become city planners, and engineers in all aspects of the field.

It sounds like you have some experience seeing projects through from start to finish, which is certainly welcome, but this is a different ballgame my friend.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:35 PM   #425
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Prepare for Landing

Your shuttle is in position to begin descending into the Martian atmosphere. Everyone prepares themselves for the descent, a little on edge as this is where everything went wrong for the first expedition.

Will you make it safely? Will this be the final moments of your lives? Will this be the first step towards a wonderful adventure. All those questions will be answered soon.

You realize that you can't stop focusing on your goals. After landing you still want to determine your various leaders and your first project before departing the shuttle.

You make one last check and see that your supplies have already landed on the surface. Your landing zone is very near your supplies, which will make everything much easier (as easy as living on an alien planet can possibly be).

Just before you turn off the scanner you notice something odd in the thermal scanner. A small heat source that is about 5 miles away from your landing zone. That is about where the original colony was going to land. Maybe just an anomaly, or a bad read from the scanner. No time to think about that right now.

Prepare for landing...
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:36 PM   #426
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Engineering is also a VERY broad term. What type of Engineering is Jackal a professor of? Chemical? Structural? Do we want a potential chemical engineer in charge of planning our building projects?

I'd wager that I know more about all fields of engineering, including but not exclusive to the ones you mentioned, than the rest of our entire group combined.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:44 PM   #427
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I see that we are arguing for the person with the most experience in the engineering and medical field but we are ignoring it when it comes to the leader position.

Right now we have a professor and someone who hasn't claimed a past job in the lead. We should be looking for people with skills in leading people. I can do that

Piggybacking off of Zinto's comment, I see that I am not gaining much traction for Sheriff.

I'll reiterate my qualifications again. On Earth I was a private investigator, think Magnum PI. I worked in the background, getting my hands dirty doing the research and investigation necessary to point the finger at a suspect or absolve them of any complicity.

When necessary the job would require a more physically confrontational approach, and while this was rare, I was more than capable of handling these circumstances.

As we descend to the surface of Mars I will ask you to reconsider whether we are better off with my skill set, or if we want to put one of our resident mall cops in charge of finding our stowaway after we land.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:48 PM   #428
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This is a fun bit of jockeying for position for Day 0.

By my own arguments for Autumn and saldana, I'm not the best option for Sheriff. But I put my name out there because I don't have any dark secrets, at least none that were revealed to me, so we at least have a chance of recruiting someone good for a leadership role.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:49 PM   #429
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All of the engineering candidates are kind of meh. Honestly, I am not impressed with any of them. Yea, Grover worked on the ISS but as far as I am concerned he might as well have worked for ISIS.

Also, why would we build a biodome first? We are going to MARS. Science should be our first priority.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:51 PM   #430
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Also, why would we build a biodome first? We are going to MARS. Science should be our first priority.

Good luck with your research when you run out of oxygen and food and unimportant stuff like that.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:52 PM   #431
Raven
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This has been confusing, so here is the passenger log, to the best of my knowledge.
I can't be the only one to maintain this list, but hope we can keep it updated as a group...


Science
timmae - studied science his whole life, "engineering type" (experience and skillset are ambiguous)
Raven - farmer. strong science background.
Narcizo - chemist. bit of experience running small scale facility

Doctor
Autumn - doctor and chief of staff at Boston general
Chief Rum - worked in ER (is a doctor or a nurse? never said which)
ntndeacon - EMT, but not a doctor

Sheriff
bitrock - police officer. record isn't perfect, and physical capability can sometimes cloud higher-order processes. (ie loose cannon??)
thomkal - retired Army general. primary concerns safety-both a physical sense-a sheriff chosen and patroling the immediate area. for democracy.
shoveler - Private investigator (objective - identify stowaway)
JAG - highschool football coach. experience leading and training

Engineer
Jackal - MIT Prof of Engineering
Grover - 2 yrs as engineer on ISS. prof. astronaut, enginer and scientist by trade. leader of ISS mission. has lived in space
saldana - city planner

Leader
DanGarion - lead large group of succ. people. "well liked", Democratic (ambigous history)
fontisian - college history professor
Zinto - CEO
Suicane - retired politician with history of public service
Crimsonfox - automechanic. enjoys moonbuggies and likes to change his vote frequently


Unknown
Schmidty, Golden Eagle, Danny, SharnK20
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:54 PM   #432
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Good luck with your research when you run out of oxygen and food and unimportant stuff like that.

If we focus on science first, we can probably learn to manufacture food, oxygen , etc.

Science is the key to survival. This is not Earth where all of that stuff is served in abundance. It is a whole new ballgame once we land.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:54 PM   #433
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Good luck with your research when you run out of oxygen and food and unimportant stuff like that.

That said, I do believe a research center should be another top priority. Suppose we'll see how we adapt to the conditions in terms of a medical center, but I'd hope government won't be critical from the offset.

Some of this may get thrown out the window when we actually see what we're dealing with and get an idea of why the first mission failed.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:55 PM   #434
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Have the unknowns posted yet at all or are we completely in the dark on them? Coming from someone who saw lesser candidates raised first, I'd certainly like to know what we've got in those folks.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:01 PM   #435
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I see The Jackal, Grover and saldana together as having all the requisite pieces, but no one has all of them.

The Jackal has the theories down for what is needed to construct viable facilities on Mars. Grover has the experience and training to understand the requirements humans need in harsh environments. Saldana has the structural and organizational knowledge needed to design and build the facilities.

I think we should pick the one who is best to lead from the position, and figure the other two will help out.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:02 PM   #436
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I believe Schmidty and GoldenEagle have checked in so far.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:06 PM   #437
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Also, why would we build a biodome first? We are going to MARS. Science should be our first priority.


Because where are we going to live? Do we have a habitat ready to go? Our suits can only hold air for so long. How long can we really live in the lander together? A Biodome is the perfect base from which to build and branch off to every other system and building we will need.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:08 PM   #438
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If we focus on science first, we can probably learn to manufacture food, oxygen , etc.

Science is the key to survival. This is not Earth where all of that stuff is served in abundance. It is a whole new ballgame once we land.

I'm sure we have the scientists who know how to produce all of these things already. Inside of a Biodome with the correct temperate zone, soil, etc, we can produce what we need.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:10 PM   #439
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I see The Jackal, Grover and saldana together as having all the requisite pieces, but no one has all of them.

The Jackal has the theories down for what is needed to construct viable facilities on Mars. Grover has the experience and training to understand the requirements humans need in harsh environments. Saldana has the structural and organizational knowledge needed to design and build the facilities.

I think we should pick the one who is best to lead from the position, and figure the other two will help out.

Again, neither one of these candidates are impressive as the primary engineer. They basically do the same thing. I think I should be elected as the primary engineer. I am a computer programmer by trade. We are going to need to deep analysis of what will work on Mars. These guys would be fine if we were doing this on Earth where proven technologies work.

I can write programs that can analyze the soil, wind speed, temperature, etc. in order to build optimal structures. I don't think either Grover or Saldana can do that.

I once again want to stress we are going to an unknown environment. Science HAS to be first.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:11 PM   #440
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I'm sure we have the scientists who know how to produce all of these things already. Inside of a Biodome with the correct temperate zone, soil, etc, we can produce what we need.

You are telling me that scientists know how to grow food on Mars already? That is going to be difficult to do, consider no one has done it before.

I am very concerned elected an engineer who doesn't put science first.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:18 PM   #441
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It sounds like you are making an argument to lead the research efforts..?
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:24 PM   #442
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You are telling me that scientists know how to grow food on Mars already? That is going to be difficult to do, consider no one has done it before.

I am very concerned elected an engineer who doesn't put science first.

It's hard to say what is in our supplies, but I'd have to think we'd have some soil samples and seeds from earth in there. We build our BioDome, we can begin cultivating our own crops.

I guess we'll have to see what is in our supplies first, though I am still in favor of Biodome first, Research Center second.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:27 PM   #443
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It sounds like you are making an argument to lead the research efforts..?

I should lead the research efforts and it should be our top priority. Our supplies may or may not work on Mars. Judging but what happened to the first colony attempt, I am going to say that they don't work or at the very least we need to figure out how they work. Science is the answer to that.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:46 PM   #444
Raven
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Baltimore, MD

My votes
Science - Raven
Doctor - Autumn
Sheriff - thomkal
Engineer - Jackal
Leader - ?

Project - BioDome


Science
I believe i am still the most qualified for the job

Doctor
Autumn's big picture experience seems to be more appropriate to lead this group, while Chief and deacon seem to have more specialized roles

Sheriff
Thomkal's Army General experience seems to be the best fit for overseeing our security needs.

Engineer
I like Grover's qualifications, but I think his role will be more hands on than "overseer", which is why I like Jackal's MIT engineering background to lead this group.

Leader
This one is tough, as I think there are multiple candidates that could do well here, but I just can't decide...
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:58 PM   #445
britrock88
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: WI via ND via NC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven View Post
This has been confusing, so here is the passenger log, to the best of my knowledge.
I can't be the only one to maintain this list, but hope we can keep it updated as a group...

Great work, Raven. I'll update with GE's info.

Science
timmae - studied science his whole life, "engineering type" (experience and skillset are ambiguous)
Raven - farmer. strong science background.
Narcizo - chemist. bit of experience running small scale facility

Doctor
Autumn - doctor and chief of staff at Boston general
Chief Rum - worked in ER (is a doctor or a nurse? never said which)
ntndeacon - EMT, but not a doctor

Sheriff
bitrock - police officer. record isn't perfect, and physical capability can sometimes cloud higher-order processes. (ie loose cannon??)
thomkal - retired Army general. primary concerns safety-both a physical sense-a sheriff chosen and patroling the immediate area. for democracy.
shoveler - Private investigator (objective - identify stowaway)
JAG - highschool football coach. experience leading and training

Engineer
Jackal - MIT Prof of Engineering
Grover - 2 yrs as engineer on ISS. prof. astronaut, enginer and scientist by trade. leader of ISS mission. has lived in space
saldana - city planner
GoldenEagle - computer programmer, proposes deep analysis for scientific purposes

Leader
DanGarion - lead large group of succ. people. "well liked", Democratic (ambigous history)
fontisian - college history professor
Zinto - CEO
Suicane - retired politician with history of public service
Crimsonfox - automechanic. enjoys moonbuggies and likes to change his vote frequently

Unknown
Schmidty, Danny, SharnK20
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Old 02-17-2015, 02:00 PM   #446
Shoveler
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Minnesota
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven View Post
Sheriff
Thomkal's Army General experience seems to be the best fit for overseeing our security needs.

How is he qualified, he sat around ordering other troops to do the actual work. This new environment, with the small size of the colony, will require our sheriff to actually do the work themselves.

If we had a battalion of sheriffs, then perhaps he would be qualified to lead them all, but we do not have such numbers.

And might I remind you that he is a retired general, which translates into "Old Man". Do you want a frail sheriff with a walker, or a young vibrant sheriff like myself?
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Old 02-17-2015, 02:03 PM   #447
britrock88
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: WI via ND via NC
To reiterate the background for my candidacy...

I have real, on-the-ground experience in police work... more than driving a golf cart with a green light around a parking lot. I am highly capable in fulfilling the physical duties of law enforcement. Becoming a sheriff has always been a personal goal of mine.

Understanding my role within this group as a whole, I think it would be important to establish a governance model that prescribes my duties and ensures that I enforce the laws effectively and to the proper extent.
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Old 02-17-2015, 02:06 PM   #448
britrock88
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: WI via ND via NC
Leader: change to fontisian
Scientist: change to Narcizo
Engineer: (Grover)
Sheriff: (britrock)
Doctor: (Autumn)
Project: (Government)
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Old 02-17-2015, 02:12 PM   #449
Shoveler
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Minnesota
Allow me to beat the dead horse some more.

We have an unknown among us. This individuals motivation for being here is unclear. It is very likely that this person will try to gain a position that secures their status. That position would most likely be Leader or Sheriff. Keep that in mind as you make your final decisions.
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Old 02-17-2015, 02:18 PM   #450
Grover
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Lisboa, ME
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoveler View Post
Allow me to beat the dead horse some more.

We have an unknown among us. This individuals motivation for being here is unclear. It is very likely that this person will try to gain a position that secures their status. That position would most likely be Leader or Sheriff. Keep that in mind as you make your final decisions.

I'm not sure I want my sheriff beating dead horses.
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